What is so bad about the Matrix sequels? I have not watched them yet and would like to hear some reasons

What is so bad about the Matrix sequels? I have not watched them yet and would like to hear some reasons.

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here's a better idea, you go watch them first instead of having your expectations muddled by someone's else's opinion

Mh?

They undid hints and subtlety and replaced it with nonsense and philosobabble.

Not asking for advice. Tell me what you thought of the Matrix sequels, and why, if you do find them to be, are they worse or even bad?

They're really boring

no, fuck you, if you won't watch them beforehand you're just being an asshole.

It's the smell, if there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it.

I doubt you can really say that desu.

bassically the first one have the terror/cyberpunk vibe that this autists like (not saying it is not the best of the three),like neo in that birthing pod or the fuck the gestapo scene,and the general sensation of being pursued by the whole sistem that has you in prison,while in the other movies that is lost and neo is bassically superman.

Mmmh?

Ah I could see this. I really appreciated those terrifying aspects of the original. I was surprised by how much body horror the Matrix has in it, and that for the most part all that people remember is slow-mo and leather. Some of it is like a more scifi Cronenberg.

its 1 free PHONE call....
you can't just cheat like this.

My opinion is that both, or at least the second one for sure, are worth watching. That's the only opinion you should care about before watching them

They expanded upon the concept that Neo was a god-like being, added a lot of CGI that hasn't held up (but there's a LOT that has), relied more on action than on story, were less of a novelty as the Matrix story was not new then, and went overboard on the mystical shit. Other than that the action scenes were for the most part great, design was overall great, and people were expecting the trannies to steal from other shit to elevate it to another level. I have the trilogy collection with an extras disk and watch them from time to time. The sequels are flawed but if you like scifi and aren't a pretentious artfag they're fine and quite enjoyable.

Revolutions got this nice feel of impending and inevitable apocalypse throughout the whole film.

Also, this tiny scene when Logos (I think that was the name of the ship Neo & were flying) broke through the clouds and into the sun came out of nowhere and was a pleasant surprise.

I loved the entire trilogy. I don't know what people talk about when they say the sequels were lacking. It had a unique voice, style, and story throughout. They claim it's psychobabble but the movie is full of metaphors minus the architect scene. I suspect they wanted something MORE profound, but profound wasn't really what made the first matrix great either.

does the bluray have cool extras or behind the scenes documentaries? Would love to watch those if they exist.

this
I don't mean they're bad but they loose that "touch" the first movie had

dont get me wrong,revolutions has the best sci fi battle of a movie ever,and reloaded has that scene with the agents and the ghost twins and wahtever,but is all more conventional and safe,its just not the same.

They were bloated and unfocused messes that didn't really build on the first one in a satisfying way.

How do you heal in the Matrix? Say you're a bluepill who gets shot by some guy. Your brain thinks you got shot, so you start bleeding. But then what if you go to a hospital? Your brain may think you're getting healed, but surely it can't just stop the bleeding when it wants? What about eating? You may think you're eating, but can you sustain yourself on the thought alone?

how about i give you the finger

I dunno. Unless they answered it in the movie, I think it's just best not to think too far ahead. Conversations about stuff like that are never intriguing.

and you give me my phone call

The bluray set I bought has the trilogy and the animatrix, plus The Matrix Experience, which is 2 discs. They're dvds while the movies are bluray, though. I think I may have seen them both, but I was drunk on wine when I saw them that day so I can only recall seeing a lot of behind the scenes stuff. They aren't more than a couple hours all together but the stuff they do show is great. Stunts, daily-kind of stuff (like when they build the highway scene of Matrix 2), story book stuff, etc. The storybook/board stuff looks mostly the same as what they designed, it's like they made manga frames and used a magic wand to make them come to life. It's really good to see.

I also have several sets for different series. I thought it'd be cheaper than buying them individually and the extras are a bonus.

>How do you heal in the Matrix?
with doctors,but if they cant fix you the machines dont really care, you are just another disposable battery for them,you die and they get another.
>What about eating?
the food thing goes through the tubes of the pod to the body in the electric plant,but i guess that if you think you are starving you can die,but again the machines dont care too much about you living or not.

How is that even possible?
It's like having not seen the original SW triology

They're anime brought to life in the NIN era. 1 is hardcore sci-fi, 2 has the greatest car chase in the history of cinema and 3 has a full blown Dragon Ball battle between Keannu and Hugo (+ a mech war but that's a little dull)

First one is a combination of unique scifi ideas into a well written story with great looking action scenes and believable likable characters. Second and third are a combination of scifi ideas into a boring libshit story with over the top action scenes that look silly and all the characters are crappy and negros.

I think they bleed when they get massive trauma and otherwise maybe they just get bruised. And remember, most people think it's real so their brain tells them it is and they die when they think they died.

story and philosophy took a backseat to kung fu and aesthetics, and everyone's mind had already been blown by the effects of the first movie, so the sequels just had less of an impact
that's really it
some people get bored with a 10 minute fight scene, but i really enjoy that stuff so i didn't mind. they are still shit compared to the first movie, but people going on about how bad they are the same way they do about the star wars prequels just do it to fit in

getting shot in the matrix is just like getting shot irl, that's why neo needed to dodge anderson's bullets, and why mouse died when he got shot
people still in the matrix are hooked up in those egg-shaped pods, and are sustained in some why through the tubes

Smith kills the oracle
Trinity dies in the middle of 3
Smith kills neo but because he no longer has a purpose smith himself is promptly deleted resulting in a peace between humans and machines

Your welcome now u don't have to sit thri the shittu movies

>everyone's mind had already been blown by the effects of the first movie, so the sequels just had less of an impact

The CGI in the sequels was distractingly bad even in their day

The original matrix spends the first act layering the sense of unreality to everything. Doling out tiny bits of info about the world while insisting that you not trust anything.
Its seriously 45 minutes into the movie before the audience actually gets to see the "real world."
It's also got some great cinematography and some absolutely amazing scene transitions.
Plus neo, the character, goes through every step of the heroes journey in a well done arc. The monomyth, when done well, usually resonates with the audience.
The groundbreaking effects, and phenomenal fight choreography literally blew minds when it was released.

Then you get the sequels. Theres no mystery, its mostly shot in a bland more direct style. No good transitions, just cut to the next scene. It still has good action, but its in service to a boring story that spends over 4 hours going nowhere fast.
The sequels aren't bad, they're just bloated and don't live up to the original. It also follows a protagonist thats an invulnerable superman, so bye bye tension for our hero.

no, getting shot in the matrix IS NOT just like getting shot in the real world.

it's just that if you die in the matrix your brain shuts down for real, because real or imaginary a shut down is a shut down.

If you're wondering how they eat and sleep, and other science facts; repeat to yourself "Its just a show" and you should really just relax.

But when Neo is getting punched by agents in the Matrix, you see blood fly out his mouth in real life.

>dude it's just a movie lmao

it is JUST a movie

Pretty much this. The first movie had a sense of mystery and paranoia. We were being introduced to the world for the first time so that sense of mystery persists even after we discover what the Matrix is. The history of the outside world and the laws of the Matrix slowly unfold throughout the movie, so it keeps you engaged. The setting has been fully explained by the end of the first film, so in the sequels we basically understand the Matrix and the sense of mystery is gone. The sense of paranoia is also gone because the main characters are more powerful and less threatened by their enemies. Neo has become a messianic figure instead of a sympathetic Everyman. Morpheus is even capable of defeating an Agent, which would have been impossible for him in the first film. None of them show any fear or vulnerability while inside the Matrix so you can never feel as if there's any danger.

Illustrative purposes

You're just a movie

Best answer. The Matrix is more interesting as a form of 'hyperreality' -- a simulation that represents more about our experiences than reality. This metaphysical environment where paintings can express people's inmost realities, or where déjà vu is indicative of a larger problem, is partly why Baudrillard suggested that most people prefer their simulations. Yet the Wachowskis don't fully explore the preoccuption with simulations as a mental cage. Another thing they don't do is distinguish the differences between Simulacra (Apparent likeness or knowledge) with Simulation (feigned possession or distortive Matrix) and the Real.

Zion: That's about it.

Living in the Matrix is shit. Getting redpilled and living in the real world is REALLY shit and boring to watch.

Essentially the message of the movie is get only get Redpilled to get ahead in the bluepill world because there is nothing else.

Also the Neo Trinity romance is awful.

That said Matrix Reloaded is fucking BRILLIANT.

There is a fanedit that combines reloaded and revolution into one movie and cuts out all the zion stuff.
As far as fanedits go, its pretty good.

Of course without zion you dont get the hovercraft steeplechase to warn Zion, or the based as fuck battle on the docks, which isone of my favorite sci fi action sequences ever. Seeing the sentinels swarming together to attack was a tense as fuck brooding moment.

Baudrillard did discuss melancholia as one way that we all handle living within a world of media-based simulations, but this is simplified in the movie because there nihilism is simply being used to help "prove" the matrix. It becomes dualistic and dull; one is good and the other is bad.

The book Simulacra & Simulation has a much more complex and triangulated structure, which accepts that human beings must make use of abstractions of some kind or another. It's not a question of simply reverting to barbarism.

*flipper

Why didn't Neo begin altering the structure of the Matrix itself in the sequels? Something more like Inception, where you could change ideas in the minds of those who hadn't awakened, or small elements of the landscape. Couldn't they have hacked one of the machines and sent it back to reprogram certain elements? The story device of getting completely free of an abstract simulation - of any kind -- just doesn't help. The matrix could have been viewed as a utility rather than an imposition.

I just finished revolutions, so what im getting is that nothing really mattered since the bots still control everything and have human farms and zion won't be expanded.
So it was pointless?

Another thing I don't get is that neo apparently is the sixth one? And that zion has been destroyed like 6 times as well?
How is any of that possible? Why even try to defeat the robots if they are going to win anyways, neo could've let Smith take over the mechanical city or something since it would maybe be the only way to stop them.
I'm confused

>Couldn't they have hacked one of the machines and sent it back to reprogram certain elements?
You mean like agent Smith? It wasn't intentional, but has the same end.

Bruh. The robots were going to destroy zion regardless, and letting agent smith take over the machine city would have killed everyone in the matrix.
Neo telling the machines that he could stop smith was the only way to save humanity at all.
This is all explained in direct exposition in the movie.

The robots control the humans anyways so why does it matter?
They can easily destroy zion whenever they want so humanity can't really be saved..

>So it was pointless?
did you even watch the damn movie?,the architect makes peace with neo and the war ends,the farming thing is fucked but they could "repair" the sky destroying thre black fog now that there is no need to destine all the resources to war.
also the thing of being the sith chosen one is a mechanism of control of the anomaly of matrix but humans dont know about it.
also i would preffer negociating with the architect than with smith

how the fuck where people within the Matrix supposed to rationalize a flying Jesus man in plain sight especially after the interstate chase scene? In every imaginable way it would utterly devastate the narrative of keeping everyone unaware of living in a simulation, and was as gratuitously obvious as having a real life UFO touchdown

The main complaint I have about the sequels is that it's very obvious when you watch them that they hadn't planned to make any movies beyond the first Matrix. If all of these people in Zion and all these other people in the Matrix were so important to the overall story, they should have been included in the first one. In the second movie they introduce like 40 new characters right away and a whole new setting (Zion) and none of that was really necessary because all anyone wanted was Neo doing crazy matrix shit some more. That being said, I still like to watch them sometimes because they have cool shit in them, but they're not as good as the first one.

> (You)
>>So it was pointless?
>did you even watch the damn movie?,the architect makes peace with neo and the war ends,the farming thing is fucked but they could "repair" the sky destroying thre black fog now that there is no need to destine all the resources to war.
>also the thing of being the sith chosen one is a mechanism of control of the anomaly of matrix but humans dont know about it.
>also i would preffer negociating with the architect than with smith
I still don't get it, it sounds stupid.
So basically what I got from the wiki, the robots have destroyed the city multiple times before and the last chosen ones failed?
The architect was an excellent but strange character for me.
I dunno, it's just confusing

Here's a crazy idea guys: let's watch movies BEFORE we start discussions about them from now on. Good? Good.

In addition to everything that has been said here, at the time people had absurdly high expectations after the success of the first. I don't think I have ever seen such hype for a sequel. The second and third movies failed to meet expectations and people were mad.

Really the worst scene was the Zion rave and if there were a version of Reloaded without it it would be a perfect movie.

Why was it in the film in the first place, it felt out of place

This.
OP confirmed for underage and should get out.

>in the matrix
>new years eve, 1999
>countdown to the new year
>happy 1999 everybody!
>nobody notices

>this is the canonical ending to The Matrix
youtube.com/watch?v=OfeGPilWZp0

Once you realize the "real world" was just another layer of the matrix the movies become exponentially better.

>realize
you dare purport...

...

Meh I never saw star wars till I was like 22, i never have seen the matrix sequels either. It isn't weird when you aren't a manchild

>Use humans for energy
>Humans need calories to produce energy
>Humans get calories from eating other humans
>???
>Profit

...

desu this is the image that got me to watch this movie today. I wasn't even drooling, just like "damn..." and then decided to check out The Matrix.

Last one is pretty much nigger dance scene, sex scene, then drawn the fuck out showdown like the newer transformers. Shit was so bad it makes the others seem like a waste desu
Second one was decent but Sup Forums autists prob gonna complain cause its Sup Forums

>The robots control the humans anyways
Jesus user. No they don't. Did you miss the Oracle's whole speech about the architect and how he don't control shit, but is a victim of the illusion of control.
Yes the machines could kill all the humans at any time, but that doesn't mean humans aren't going to fight back. Thats what the fuck we do.
In the end fighting back against hopeless odds and not just rolling over because the odds aren't in your favor is what saves the machines from themselves.

you know the sad thing. when i watched these two scenes as a kid I NEVER realized about the ass
wtf was wrong with me as a young kid? now i love ass

The first was sublime
The second was neither good nor bad. It had some cool scenes, some cool tracks, but generally I didn't like it much
I've completely forgotten everything about the third.

Studio thought the audiences couldn't understand the concept of the machines using human brains as parallel wetware processors.
The original script dealt with the matrix and the plugged in people were like sheeple because the less "thinking" they did meant more brainpower the machines could use.

I've always just recconciled it with the head cannon that the machines had some vestige of the laws of robotics (or their equivalent) and didn't want to kill all humans, just neutralize a threat to them. Being machines theyre all about efficiency and use the thermal energy from the pods to pay back into the system itself to recover some energy.

Link pls

Because the Watchowskis started hitting the gay rave scene and wanted to work that in.

Phoneposting at the moment.
Its called "the dezionized" edition or something like that.

Also "Kung fu vs. Robots" is pure fun. They recut the movie to be a really low budget looking schlock exploitation cyberpunk movie.

Holy shit this must either be some stoned retard, a troll, or some teen who didn't pay attention. Protip: it takes years to fully multitask, most people can only do a couple things with some attention an not most attention. Anyways the architect clearly explained that most humans accept the matrix, and his job is to keep tweaking things in new versions so that even more people accept it. There is a tiny, but significant, percentage of people who don't accept the matrix in any form and this is why the machines let them go off and play rebel in Zion. This release of pressure, so to speak, eventually becomes too big to ignore and this usually marks the time when the machines wipe the rebel humans out and start afresh. The One is basically the catalyst to start this reboot, and the machines also use this time to make a new version of the matrix (I think). So The One must start Zion anew and recreate the pressure release, and restart the matrix. This is why the architect says either save the human race or save his love (not rebooting the matrix could lead to a total crash iirc). I got this the first time I saw them 13 years ago when I was 14, man. It's really not a complex story/narrative to follow. They literally explain things.

As for this iteration of The One, Neo got lucky in that Smith became a virus and threatened all of machine-kind. This gave him the chance to make a deal with the machines and save both Zion and the humans still in the matrix. All other The Ones just took it at face value that the magnitude of their decision was too great to deviate from, and doom most of mankind.

Frankly the only confusing parts are the 2deep5u shit about "did you know I was gonna do what I was gonna do before I did it" and "you know that you know what to do as I know that you do" and all that dumbass shit. The actual narrative is easy-peasy.

The upsetting thing was the first movie wrapped up very well. The ending was open enough so that audiences could fill in their own ending but the story of the movie was concluded. This meant two and three were unnecessary. They came off as cash grabs by a greedy studio that couldn't just let a great movie be a great movie.

>because he no longer has a purpose smith himself is promptly deleted
That is not what happens.

It's not that The One rebuilds Zion; it's that the machines leave a few survivors after each destruction of Zion, so that those survivors can be the ones to "recreate the pressure release", as you put it, by freeing those who don't accept The Matrix. Because these survivors aren't at the major events (like meeting The Architect, anything involving The Oracle), they don't know what happened, and cannot pass the 'history of Zion' to the next generation. The most that they'd be able to give/tell would be something like "the machines came to destroy Zion, but failed to kill us all" - which also justifies the creation of defensive machinery by the inhabitants of Zion.

The directors started using hormones and became huge masochists.

>bassically the first one have the terror/cyberpunk vibe that this autists like (not saying it is not the best of the three),like neo in that birthing pod or the fuck the gestapo scene,and the general sensation of being pursued by the whole sistem that has you in prison,while in the other movies that is lost and neo is bassically superman.
This. There's that horror/trapped feel of the first that is shocking.

Also this.

It's meant to be easily applicable to way we see ideology and ignore the dark reality of our existence.

i liked the 2nd movie but not the 3rd because more of it takes place outside the matrix which ruins the whole point

>I just finished revolutions, so what im getting is that nothing really mattered since the bots still control everything and have human farms and zion won't be expanded.
>So it was pointless?
Actually people ended up becoming an extension of the matrix.
It becomes mechanically based, but needs the people to survive.
So the machine begins to empathize with the humans and give them a more active role in their "society". Bit like gammification.

can you decipher for me this autism that I'm seeing here?

At the end of the first film, Neo accepts that he "The One". This means that, within the confines of the artificial construct known as the Matrix, he is able to alter reality, to affect whatever change he wishes. He informs the machines that he's going to show the other, still-trapped humans what the machines "don't want them to see": a world without rules.
It ends with him freeing himself from the confines of gravity, because, of course, it's not real gravity. It's a somewhat ambiguous ending that implies Neo is freeing the minds of humanity by demonstrating to them that what they see is not real.

The sequels are a cash-cow that shit all over that premise. Neo gains powers even outside of the Matrix, computer programs infect the biological brains of human beings and possess them in the real world, other entities besides the agents are suddenly part of the Matrix and just as (if not more) powerful than the Agents, and in some cases even Neo. There's also a disgusting contrivance that allows the killed Agent Smith to return, because he was an excellent antagonist in the first film and I guess they were unwilling to do a sequel without him.
The sequels are an escalation to a story which was already as complete as necessary, and they are fucking sickening.

Very few films manage to blend excellent writing and excellent action - you generally have to pick one or the other (I mean, who are we kidding, often we get neither). The first Matrix actually managed this impressive feat. The sequels undid the first film entirely. While many sequels are bad, some manage to be so bad in very specific ways that they actually affect how you perceive the first film. Another example of this would be in the sequel to Highlander, when we find out the immortals are all aliens. That's probably the only example I can think of that retroactively ruins its predecessor even more than the Matrix sequels.

I would strongly recommend against watching them.

The entire problem with the Matrix sequels is that the focus is split between Zion/Real World and the Matrix when Zion was dull. They even introduced a ton of interesting concepts about the matrix (Seraph, previous Matrix, Merovingian) in the second film but proceeded to do nothing with them. Really the sequels should have focused on Neo and crews attempts to wake people in the Matrix up.

>I've always just recconciled it with the head cannon that the machines had some vestige of the laws of robotics (or their equivalent) and didn't want to kill all humans, just neutralize a threat to them.
Your headcanon is actual canon. Watch the animatrix. You won't regret it.

Truth

The first matrix has clever ideas, a straight-forward plot that conforms to the hero's journey, and ends in a satisfying way.

The sequels..... not so much.
More than anything the sequels seem to me like a shoujen manga strip; evil opposite rivals, interesting side characters show up for a section and then are brushed aside, power ups, long philosophical monologues and the final fight is essentially a scene from popular manga/anime series Dragonball Z.

The Wachowski's are clearly very into anime (the Animatrix exists for example) so its kinda cool that they got to make big budget live action crazy anime nonsense, but it takes a certain viewpoint to enjoy and isnt as satisfying as the self contained and focused original.

/thread

The original one completed it.

That's it.

The one had been found, the machines, and the system and lost.

Now I think, they're trying to consider that again.

No. The story was over before, and it's over again. We don't need another one.

*had

No.

We'll eviscerate this in culture. Don't fuck this up.