Luke, ever tell you did I that a general in the Clone Wars I was? Fought in several major battles, I did

Luke, ever tell you did I that a general in the Clone Wars I was? Fought in several major battles, I did.

A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria
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How does this contradict anything?

Forgot to say, when he fights in the PT he's always defending either fellow Jedi or the Republic itself.

Luke, tell you did I about the time I was promoted to general and commanding hundreds of millions of soldiers despite being a mystic with no experience in tactics or strategy?

You guys don't pay attention, do you?
The republic has no army.
The Jedi bring the clones, and as superpowered beings and "keepers of the peace" become de facto general.

Are you a bot?
Do you have a refutation for
or not?

How about you?
Got a response to
?

Did the Jedi not find creating beings solely for the purpose of dying on the battlefield questionable? They didn't even really know who financed it. The least they could've done was conscription.

>Did the Jedi not find creating beings solely for the purpose of dying on the battlefield questionable?
Of course, but they had no time. (senate couldn't decide+urgency of the Geonosis situation. It was clones or let Dooku raze the galaxy.
>They didn't even really know who financed it.
Again, irrelevant. They had no time.
>The least they could've done was conscription.
If the senate realized that the republic now had an army of highly trained clones, why would they let their own sons be drafted?

This is all very simple, basic logic.
You guys really turn your brains all the way off when you shitpost about these movies.

Whoa

What?

Why was dooku an idealist?

Are you memeing or do you want an answer?

I want an answer. They never say why dooku is an idealist in the movies.

>an army of a couple million clones
>in a galaxy of trillions of sentient creatures
That shit would be meaningless in the scale of things.

I was just taken aback there for a sec buddy why are you in my face about a whoapost feeling a little uncomfortable right now

We see in TPM that Qui-Gon butts heads with the council and is generally less by the book, and since we know that Dooku was his master, we can infer that he got his attitude from Dooku, especially considering this line from Yoda to Obi "Qui-Gon's defiance I sense in you, need that you do not".

From there we can see that both Qui-Gon and Dooku butted heads with the council.

NOW, as per TPM, we see that democracy is failing and that the senate is corrupt.

If Dooku is an idealist, he would, like Anakin does in AOTC, think that the system doesn't work.

The reason you don't think that we see why Dooku would be an idealist and what his ideals are is the same reason that people think that TPM isn't integral to the PT- The Naboo blockade crisis is painting a picture of what is wrong with the Republic, and why star systems want to secede.

TL;DR
Dooku can be inferred to want a governing body that actually WORKS.


unit=/=person
Think "army unit".

I forgot to ask, did RLM say
>they never say why Dooku is an idealist
or what? (Only watched those once, years ago. They seemed dumb.)
Because you'd have to be playing on your phone to not see what I just described.

Don't forget that he actually started the war as well by leading a fuckton of clone troopers into geonosis to save Jedi spies.

>Don't forget that he actually started the war
Have you even seen the movies?
Palpatine started AND ended the war.

The republic had no army, and needed one desperately. Palpatine maneuvered the Jedi into a situation where it was "use this shady clone army" or "get the galaxy razed my Dooku."

Watch the movies before you shitpost. They're not very complicated assuming you watch movies with even an ounce more plot than Fast and the Furious

Yoda used the force to attack dooku and sheev.

see
>when he fights in the PT he's always DEFENDING either fellow Jedi or the Republic itself.

>Fear, anger, Aggression. The dark side are they.

In addition to acting in defense of the galaxy, Yoda never fights out of fear, anger, or aggression.

Doesn't contradict a thing.

It might have been you that didn't see the movies, f a m. The war starts when Yoda and his friends bomb the shit out of Geonosis. The separatist army was used only in self defense.

Luke, fighting instead of escaped I Palpatine ventilation shaft exile senate through the tell I like did ever about little bitch, friend was good he.

meme on dude
What I described is the objective truth.

>I have good new for you my lord- the war has begun.

*news

Whether Dooku wanted a war or not is immaterial. Republic clearly fired the first shot. They started the war and Yoda was the one leading the cavalry charge.

Luke, did I ever tell you about how my meme wasn't nearly as funny as Obi-Wan's meme and really made no sense in the first place but somehow got posted anyway by op making everyone wonder if he understood why the meme was funny in the first place?

A good friend he was.

read
>Palpatine maneuvered the Jedi into a situation where it was "use this shady clone army" or "get the galaxy razed my Dooku."

I understand that you are just shitposting because that's all Sup Forums's good for any more, and I understand that i'm taking bait, but it just boggles my mind why you would choose to be an asshole over something you are so plainly wrong about.

Dooku had absolutely no plans to 'raze' the galaxy. You need to watch the movie again my friend. The separatists intended to secede from the republic due to unfair taxes and anti-trade policies.

>You need to watch the movie again my friend.
no u
What is Palpatine's end goal?
To rule the galaxy.
What did the Jedi just find out in TPM?
That the Sith are back after one thousand years.

What is happening in AOTC?
1. the dark side is clouding the Jedi's vision
2. an ex Jedi is building up a droid army
3. a force user disrupted the archives to hide the location of a planet with an army that a Jedi supposedly ordered, but in reality was "killed before [ten years ago]".
4. they see Obi-Wan ambushed by droids owned by people Dooku is consorting with

Why the hell would Dooku try to silence and KILL a Jedi (and be building a droid army, as Obi Wan tells Yoda and the chancellor) if he wanted to peacefully secede?

Watch the movies.

You keep bringing up the creation of the clone army like it actually matters to this point.

Might I remind you that Obi Wan, Anakin and Padme were sentenced to death by a separatist (geonosian, specifically) court on charge of trespassing? Perhaps you were too busy looking at your phone during that scene. In any case, Dooku didn't kill anyone, in fact he offered to spare Obi Wan in exchange for cooperation (not to mention flat out telling him that the chancellor is a sith lord). The only one guilty of (attempted) murder is Jango Fett who was settling a score for Nute Gunray.

>Might I remind you that Obi Wan, Anakin and Padme were sentenced to death by a separatist (geonosian, specifically) court on charge of trespassing? Perhaps you were too busy looking at your phone during that scene.
????
That's a deleted scene you dumb nigger.

>Perhaps you were too busy looking at your phone during that scene. In any case, Dooku didn't kill anyone, in fact he offered to spare Obi Wan in exchange for cooperation
That is AFTER Yoda and the Chancellor's last time seeing Obi-Wan, where his transmission cuts off after being ambushed by a trade fed droid. He had also just mentioned that Dooku was is cahoots with the trade fed and was forming a...[this is when he gets attacked for Yoda and the Chancellor to see.]
he hologram of OBI-WAN fades off. PALPATINE stares at the spot where the hologram was in disbelief.

Now read the rest of the scene.

BAIL ORGANA
The Commerce Guilds are preparing
for war... there can be no doubt
of that.

PALPATINE
Count Dooku must have made a
treaty with them.

SENATOR ASK AAK
The debate is over, we need
that clone army now!

BAIL ORGANA
Unfortunately, the debate is not
over. The Senate will never be
able to approve the use of that
army before the separatists
attack.

You're wrong and i'm right.

>self-defence
>occupying Naboo because it doesn't sign your trade deal

>where his transmission cuts off after being ambushed by a trade fed droid

Is it really an ambush when you are trespassing on someone's property and they arrest you? Hint: no it's not.

Of course Dooku and the separatists were forming an army. They planned to secede and expected the republic to stop them. You aren't making a very strong point here at all: only proving that you didn't watch the movie and probably don't even like star wars as much as you like silly internet arguments.

We've never really seen him go to town with his laser sword

>>occupying Naboo because it doesn't sign your trade deal
We woulda neva do anyting witout de apppproval of de seeenate?

You mus be... mistaken.

Wrong movie senpai.

>They planned to secede and expected the republic to stop them.
see
There is obvious precent for what they are going to do.

You're terrible at playing devil's advocate.

>tease clone wars
>skip it when you revisit the franchise 20 years later
>relegate it to 2 cartoons, one you completely ignore and the other that never finishes
George you piece of sjit

?
How is that relevant?
It shows that there is precedent for how the Trade Fed gets things done.

Nothing we need to see happens IN the clone war itself outside it's beginning and ending tho.

I distinctly remember Qui-gon using the force to convince a trader to give him parts for credits, which were worthless to the trader.
Or that one time where he used the Force to win a bet.

Yes, and he didn't get along with the council or follow their code, as explained in TPM.

precedent*

Now that you concede your logic is based on fallacious reasoning, you have no choice but to rely on speculation. Very well, I will play along.

A) The stated claims of the separatists is, as I have pointed out, to leave the republic. Whereas you might not take this goal at face value, the Republic does. This itself is the threat that is referred to by the republic throughout AoTC. Never once is there a stated fear that the separatists would 'raze' the galaxy, as you insist, only that their movement would divide the Republic. This of course is a parallel to the American civil war, in which the Confederacy intended to leave the Union over what they viewed as government overreach, prompting an aggressive military action from the Union.

B) The trade federation is only one member of the separatists. A prominent member, perhaps, but not the executive. Can you possibly imagine a benefit for a consortium of wealthy businesses to destroy the galaxy they profit from?

>hereas you might not take this goal at face value, the Republic does.
see
>BAIL ORGANA
>The Commerce Guilds are preparing
>for war... there can be no doubt
>of that.
>PALPATINE
>Count Dooku must have made a
>treaty with them.
>SENATOR ASK AAK
>The debate is over, we need
>that clone army now!
>BAIL ORGANA
>Unfortunately, the debate is not
>over. The Senate will never be
>able to approve the use of that
>army before the separatists
>attack.

Just fuck off mate.

Yes, the separatists are preparing for war as they anticipate the Republic to strike first (and they were right).

Yes, Bail Organa wants to approve the clone army so they can strike down the separatists when they get out of line (and they did).

What was your point again?

>Can you possibly imagine a benefit for a consortium of wealthy businesses to destroy the galaxy they profit from?
Not that guy, but you're ignoring the fact that the jedi know there is a sith still about, and that the dark side has started clouding their vision.

I think youre trying to downplay this part of the whole thing. the jedi know that the sith want to rule the galaxy (as sheev says "once more" the sith will rule...) AND the jedi know that the sith were at least somehow involved with the last trade fed crisis as we see that Maul was on naboo at the same time.

This is irrelevant to the core argument: did the Republic start the war? Whether or not they were justified, the answer is unequivocally yes.

>as they anticipate the Republic to strike first
How can they as know one is in on the plan but the 2 Sith?

As far as they know, the republic has no army at all.
Dooku just says "the Jedi will be overwhelmed and will agree to any demands we make".

The Jedi are "keepers of the peace, not soldiers".

Why would they think the Jedi would ATTACK?

*no one
whoops
typing too fast

>Knew your father, I did!

>Whether or not they were justified, the answer is unequivocally yes.
But when we factor in the Sith element- it becomes defense.

The best defense is a good offense, The Jedi know what the Sith want. (rule the galaxy).

A shitpost, this is.

I think you might have just answered your own question my simple minded friend. The separatists have an army to defend against any Jedi incursion, allowing them to secede from the republic.

>he separatists have an army to defend against any Jedi incursion
see
>The Jedi are "keepers of the peace, not soldiers".
>Why would they think the Jedi would ATTACK?

Maybe since the Jedi did actually end up attacking, that was a perfectly reasonable fear.

>Maybe since the Jedi did actually end up attacking
?
They only came to help Obi-Wan.
"I will take what Jedi we have and go to Geonosis and help Obi Wan".

They only get in a fight after they see that 2 Jedi and a republic senator are being executed.

So we see that it was indeed the Separatists who started the conflict by attempting to publicly execute people.

>The best defense is a good offense

And so the Republic started the war, with Yoda on the first wave.

Incidentally, can you imagine epV Yoda telling Luke that "the best defence is a good offence"? Now you should understand the absurdity highlighted in the OP.

>And so the Republic started the war, with Yoda on the first wave.
see
>Now you should understand the absurdity highlighted in the OP.
I don't. At all.
The Jedi defend the Republic. The Republic was at risk.
And as I pointed out above, the separatists made the first move.

Also,
The Jedi know that the last time the trade fed tried to start shit, it turned out that they were in league with the Sith.

Obi Wan, Padme and Anakin are trespassers at the least and spies at the worst. Their execution is completely legal under the jurisdiction of the Separatists, the war is started when the Republic interferes.

>Their execution is completely legal under the jurisdiction of the Separatists
Source?
Also, they aren't Separatist citizens, but citizens of the Republic so that's bullshit either way.

I don't think you understand what a secession is or what it involves.

?
Fact- Obi, Ani and Padme are Republic citizens.

You're saying that Yoda "attacked" because he DEFENDED his friends/allies from getting executed by a rogue government?

What are you smoking?
You still ignored this part too

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria

>You're saying that Yoda "attacked" because he DEFENDED his friends/allies from getting executed by a rogue government?

That's exactly what I'm saying. Glad you have finally caught up.

Your other part is irrelevant so I ignored it.

>That's exactly what I'm saying.
But you'd be wrong,
Jedi are selfless, he had to save the people he was responsible for protecting as a guardian of the Republic.

And as part of that mantle, he started a war with the separatists.

>Your other part is irrelevant
What?
How?
That's the whole reason the Jedi are on edge throughout the film.
>Only the dark lord of the Sith knows of our weakness. If informed the senate is, multiply our adversaries will.

Again, I think you are downplaying this element because it doesn't fit your narrative.

That's irrelevant to this semantic argument. He did it to defend his allies.

(In case you were wondering, I won this argument once it was conceded Yoda attacked the separatists)

>once it was conceded Yoda attacked the separatists
this never happened
He acted in defense of his allies.
>around the survivors, a perimeter create!

>A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.
Doesn't he also say the line about how anger fear and aggression are the dark side?

Yoda never attacked out of anger fear or aggression in the PT.

>I won this argument
2nd paragraph

bump

>You bring your own army to a battle
>No, you can't command it!

bump
Pretty cowardly to put words in my mouth to pretend you "won" honestly.

Doesn't Yoda tell Luke to confront Vader?
And talks about "incomplete was your training"?

Doesn't that imply that attacking evil is in defense of good?

I'd say that extends to the whole "who shot first" thing going on in this thread too.

The Trade Fed is evil. Isn't attacking them just doing what Yoda wanted Luke to do in ESB/ROTJ?

final bump
I'm gonna have to say I won, if your last post was a strawman).

Sad.

Only Americans could think of attacking someone as "keeping the peace",

Yoda was 700 years old when the clone wars, if anything he had the experience to lead an army to the battlefield

see

>The republic has no army.

How in the fuck does that work?

>what is peace

>being this fucking dumb

ITT: Autists arguing over whether or not a puppet attacked people or not in a space cartoon

Since the sith were defeated,
Monks with lethal magic swords was morecthan enough to intimidate everybody.

?
The Jedi keep the peace.
That works until Sheev corrupts the senate.

And?
Get in on the action or get the fr*ck out.

fr*ck you motherfricker

Wh*n and Wh*r*?

Confronting doesn't mean attacking. Note that Luke has his whole spiel about being a Jedi and essential wins the confrontation when he refuses to fight. The Emperor spends a whole chunk of that scene goading Luke into attacking because it'll lead to his corruption.

Sheev was the Senate

What?
Then why is Luke thier "last hope"?
What do they want him to do if not kill Vader/The Emperor.

Also, Anakin is redeemed by ATTACKING Palpatine. Checkmate.

*their
whoops

not yet nigger slow your roll

Sheev, the emperor, conjure powerful force lightning he can.

Your lightsaber, guard you from the attack it will. Toss it aside you must not.

Zahn created the whole "Sabers block lightning" thing.

Can't pin that one on Lucas, big boy.