What are the tangibles and intangibles that determine whether or not a good college QB will transition into a good professional QB?
How are some guys incredibly dominant at the collegiate level only to spend their pro career warming the bench or bouncing around practice squads?
Please explain.
mental strength, adaptability and intelligence
At the professional level rape becomes illegal
>tangibles
the system you played in, your conference
>intangibles
being a leader, work ethic
Whether or not you listen and if you can remain calm and accurate under pressure. Thats literally it. What fucks all these guys over is that they get too big for their britches and stop listening to their coaches or they go full spaghetti mode the second they're trailing. And then there's another group of quarterbacks that have very low accuracy and they're all spaghetti all the time, but they come out of college ranked high because advanced stats people only see passing yards, and not how those yards were accumulated (YAC by elite receivers, dink and dime passes, playing trash secondaries, etc.). Those guys never really have a chance in the league but people decide to remain blind to the all the variables and just talk about all the yards they've racked up.
Long story short, you could probably tell if you've got a good QB by taking a college prospect that has proven routinely that he can remain calm and accurate under pressure and in losing situations. Bring him in and make him throw passes to your NFL WRs against your NFL CBs at the practice facility to see how well he holds up against secondary talent you know is elite. Ask questions to find out if he actually can follow instructions.
That's it.
Also don't be the Browns.
be white.
literally all there is
almost no quarterbacks have a physical advantage in the NFL, unlike the college level. There's lower margin for error in the NFL, and schemes are more complicated. To be successful in the NFL, you need to be able to determine what the defense is doing and throw an accurate ball. Simply being fast can greatly diminish that burden on the collegiate level.
there's also a talent disparity among teams in college that doesn't exist in NFL
I'd be willing to bet through the history of the NFL that more black QBs have been successful than white QBs per capita.
>per capita
>tangibles
Height, face, frame
>intangibles
How much time they put it when the coaches aren't looking. To use a cliché, "he's a student of the game", meaning that after practice and school he isn't fucking around and getting drunk or high but studying the playbook and honing his craft. There was an interview on I think Letterman years ago with Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning being interviewed, you could just tell from their demeanor how much sharper Manning was mentally. Those qb camp videos with Gruden and qb prospects is another good example, you can tell the difference between Mariota and Winston in their mental sharpness and level of preparedness.
>Tangibles
Throwing ability/accuracy
Athleticism/speed
>Intangibles
Intelligence and decision-making
Leadership
Desire
Willingness to be coached
Zen under pressure
I'd say the intangibles matter a whole hell of a lot more under center than the tangibles. If athleticism and throwing ability were the be-all-end-all of quarterback play, guys like Michael Vick and RG3 would be considered the best of all time. It's the Bradys and Mannings who get remembered, and it's not because of their deep ball ability. The best QBs analyze a defense, have an audible in their back pocket, get the ball where it needs to go, and have the next play already lined up in their head. It's intelligence, calm and leadership under center that wins big games, not the ability to do a massive backflip into the endzone.
>per capita
Whoops.
But for the total number of black QBs that have entered the league compared to the total number of white QBs that have entered the league, the black QBs on average have been better statistically, have accomplished more with their careers, and have won more games.
For every Jamarcus Russell we've seen, we've also seen like 10 Ryan Leafs through the history of this league. And it's true the whites have Tom and PeyPey, but that's sort of negated when you rack up all the failures through history too.
because the black ones that didn't even get a chance to prove they were a bust, were a lower tier than ryan leaf
you gotta ask yourself is his name Tom Brady?
if it is you know he'll do okay
You got proof for that?
no, im just assuming professional nfl scouts know how to do their jobs. maybe they're all racist though
>replying to Sup Forumsbait
Accuracy, intelligence, mental and physical toughness
Long story short, Tom Brady
Nobody's calling anyone racist, stretch armstrong.
Because most black college qbs end up needing to change positions to have a chance of going pro because their qb skills are pure shit. A good chunk of WR in the NFL formerly played qb in college
Brady is the poster child for the superiority of intangibles because athletically he's extremely sub par but his intelligence and work ethic made him one of the greatest of all time
i was offering an explanation as to why the NFL drafts more white than black QBs. i wasnt implying anyone thought that. settle down
Take a look at the bulk of black NFL players and you'll see that more than a few played qb in college but had to change positions in order to go pro. The 2015 combine was littered with black qbs who had to try out in different positions because their qb skills weren't up to pare. I know sous like you want to jerkoff blacks any way possible but reality will always laugh at you in the end
Do you have numbers for that? Because I have a feeling even if you wanted to include all the black WR converts as failed QBs, that still wouldn't compare to the number of failed white QBs, and Blacks as a group would still be outperforming whites as a group in terms of success and statistical metrics at the position.
Plus it'd only be fair if you then include the failed QBs that play WR or TE for other groups too. Like Edelman, Mike Tice, Trey Burton, AJ Derby and more. Some of those guys failed so hard at QB that they got converted in college.
The same applies for a handful of white TEs though, so you could render that a null point. Many of them had to switch to TE to continue playing at the college level.
>one of
for what reason do you assume white QBs are drafted at a higher rate than black ones? of course there will be more white busts when white QBs make up probably 80+% of the QBs drafted
I assume nothing. I just look at the numbers. The black ones drafted to play QB that play QB have had more success as a group than the white ones through the history of the league. If we factor in the WR converts so you can see black failures, it's only fair to throw in TE converts to see more white failures as well.
what do you consider success? Championships? Winning seasons?
By that logic the qbs with the best adjusted qbr should transition well into the pros.
Adjusted QBR doesn't tell you if you have someone that can listen to instructions or remain calm when trailing. You have to thoroughly vet a person live to get that information. Adjusted QBR can good enough to lead you in the right direction, though. Just don't trust it 100%
you're way over-hyping the importance of "listening to instructions"
you think top-level NFL players listen to MORE instructions than their NCAA counterparts? no way.
you are just making shit up because you love blacks. hope your team drafts Quincy Carter 2.0 or Vince Young
>charlie batch
>akili smith
>shaun king
>byron leftwich
>jason campbell
>tavaris jackson
>josh freeman
>pat white
>RGIII
>EJ Manuel
>Geno Smith
journals.sagepub.com
Hope your team benches Tyrod for Nathan Peterman again
what is this list?
>making shit up
All I'm doing is saying what the numbers say, man. No need to get upset.
It's true that we have a bunch of successful white QBs and nobody is trying to detract from that. My point was more to addressing the statement that making sure your QB is white guarantees a successful QB, or that having a colored QB means a failed QB. When you look at group statistics, we've had large numbers of failed QBs that were white. Weve also had numbers that failed and had to convert to TE just like some black QBs convert to WR.
You can go check everything I've said with a Google search, and a browse through NFL historical stats.
more black qb busts for his team to draft
SEETHING
Good college QBs are usually leveraging some advantage over their opponents. They have a few consistent star receivers, or they have speed.
Coming to the NFL, you instantly loose that lever you were relying on. Now all you really have is your passing ability and ability to read the defense.
Check the top 20 of pretty much any QB statistic you mongoloid
And?
>Tangibles
1) Height - can he see over the linemen? Under 6'2 is a problem.
2) Arm Strength - how hard and far can he throw the ball? Super important at NFL level.
) Accuracy - can he put the ball anywhere it needs to be? Super important at NFL level.
4) Release - once he decides to make a throw, how long does it take to get it out? fractions of a second make the difference. Aaron Rodgers is the gold standard.
5) Run Speed - can make up for other weaknesses but less important for QB. Brady is slow as shit.
6) Football Intelligence - can he read a defense before the snap? can he audible to a better play? can he cycle through his passing options quickly but properly?
7) Injury History - has he had an ACL tear? per knee, 1 is ok, 2 is a deal breaker. shoulder problems? durability?
>intangibles
1) Toughness (physical) - can he take a hit? will he play through pain?
2) Toughness (mental) - what happens when he makes a mistake? what happens when a teammate makes a mistake? can he rally?
3) Leadership - can he convince 10 other men that he will make all the right moves?
4) Coachability - does he take criticism personally? does he study? can he adapt? NCAA ball is waaaay easier than NFL ball. only by doing exactly what your coaches say will you be successful. slowflakes don't last at QB.
>How are some guys incredibly dominant at the collegiate level only to spend their pro career warming the bench or bouncing around practice squads?
Almost no NCAA teams run a pro-style offence (QB under center, 2 or 3 WRs, precise playbook). Most NCAA run a spread offense (QB in shotgun or pistol, 4 WRs, playbook very thin). Good NCAA teams have a HUGE talent advantage over 90% of the teams they play so QB doesn't have to be as precise.
NCAA defensive players are slower and smaller so scrambling QBs don't die from hits. No NFL QB scrambles for long without taking major damage.
Arm strength is a big deal in the NFL. you have to fit the ball into tight windows. And so on.
its mostly mental, most arent smart enough to play NFL caliber QB
is there a written detailed account on how Brady was selected and why? I've already read that article about how he was being courted by the astros or some shit because they saw his management of the game and his stature as a big plus for the catcher position, that he sent highlights videos and that he was invited to the combine (he was actually rated very highly previously and already had the nickname "comeback kid" because he was clutch as fuck in college too) and then somehow he got chosen at 199th.
About intangibles, wouldn't that be a matter of background checking the prospect? like:
-Does he makes his bed after waking up?
-Does he helps at home?
-Criminal records?
-Extra-curricular activities?
-What does his neighbours/siblings/friends/classmates think of him?
-How does he perform under pressure in any activity?
-Is he a leader?
etc
good post
bad post
Brady's case is unique. No one in the Pat's organization knew he would develop into the GOAT; he was chosen to be a developmental career back-up at best, an extra arm at training camp at worst.
>War Room: The Legacy of Bill Belichick and the Art of Building the Perfect Team
is the best book covering that era. /nfl/ bros should read it. it's good and answers many questions.
For background-checkable intangibles most teams have personalized psych tests. These are always closely held secrets. San Diego started it in the 70s. The tests are mainly to identify risky/unreliable personalities.
Interviews of those around the target player are also valuable. Do his teammates like him? Do his coaches like him? Does the equipment guy like him?
Sports psychology has found: You want to avoid divas (WR are acceptable as divas, however). You want smart, loyal, religious (yes, i know but it's true) Offensive Linemen. You want destructive, borderline criminal Defensive Linemen. Cornerbacks need a short memory and will often have depression etc. And QBs will either be massive egoists or deeply religious; psychologists have found only those 2 types can withstand the pressure of standing still while 4 giant monsters try to tackle and maim you. I wish I still had that book...
any bama QB is cursed
or any sec QB in general
Leadership, throwing mechanics and something very important that is everything pre snap: from calling the play, there's some QBs like Memeiota who rarely called plays before going pro, reading the defense before the snap, making adjustments etc.
That's why most big program QBs fail in the NFL, they never do that because the offense system doesn't give them any opening.
If they went to Ohio State, they will not be a NFL QB