You don't really believe that free will exists, do you?

You don't really believe that free will exists, do you?

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yes I do, but will you redpill me?

Actions are controlled by chemical reactions in the brain. Therefore no free will

in which way are you trying to say it doesn't exist? fate or that we will naturally make the choices to given stimuli?

Well I don't normally put it so simply but yeah
We are just input-output machines but nobody thinks about it because both the inputs and outputs are pretty complex

Andy Sixx Log of Shit

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Free will does exist.

That given unlimited knowledge of the present you can predict the choices people will make in the future.

Good Robot William sure fucking exists, mank, wat the fugg

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Where do you exercise free will in your daily life?

but people will react differently, i mean you can find trends and/or manipulate the choices, but in the end they would still have a choice

no it really doesn't, not in any significant/meaningful way

as far as i know free will cant even be defined properly, right? so no

There is a reason why they will pick that choice. They will value factors relevant to that choice based on past experiences/genetics

Laplace's Demon, need I say more?

In what I do; what I eat, when I choose to do certain things, what kind of entertainment I consume if I choose to do so in the first place, etc. There are some parts of my life where my free will is limited, I agree to that. But ultimately it's up to us, the person, to do or not to do certain things.
Of course our free will is influenced by other factors, most outside of our control but that does not in any way decrease its significance.

Okay, so you make choices based on the person you are.

Why are you the person you are? Did you choose to be someone who enjoys eating x? did you choose to be someone who likes x kinda entertainment? Did you choose to have x be the thing that gives you meaning in life?

It does but society used the bible to take it away.

Um. How did u come up with this?

Is "free will" any decision that is not a direct product of consequence? If so, that would make "free" will the only method of action a human has that is not ultimately the ending point of a train of physical interactions since the beginning of existence.
Ergo; "free will" must be unfathomed by physical events.
However, this brings the question; if "free will" is not physically decided, how is it then? Is it decided based on a metaphysical preference we have? It cannot be based on our DNA, on the experiences we shared, on the chemicals in our brain, as all those events are physical. If "free will" was based on those, then life would be just a chain of consequences.
This brings us to the conclusion that humans must have either; a "soul", character traits that are given to them at birth, and exist in a metaphysical sphere, unaffected by physics. Or; pure chance, free will could as well be a product of pure chance.
However, we know for once that the key characteristic of a metaphysical sphere is that it does not share any space with a physical sphere, per definition, metaphysical events cannot interact with physical effects, or else they would be physical. We cannot discern between the effect and the cause, we can only observe the effect. In that, metaphysical "free will" can only exist by not having influence on our decisions, and thus, it may as well not exist.
Lastly, we can also rule out the possibility of "pure chance". "Free will" cannot possibly be the product of "pure chance", because it would require one of the following:
Either: Pure chance exists in a metaphysical sphere and influences choice. (this cannot be, as concluded, physical and metaphysical effects cannot interact, metaphysical effects may as well not exist)
Or: Pure chance exists in a physical sphere, and influences choice. This can also not be, as it would mean that an element of the physical world is not directly related to any previous elements, which is impossible.
"Free will", cannot exist

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No I don't.

Nice blogpost, schizoid, but random bits exist in reality obviously, as proven by several experiments. Go fuck some horses.

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not always, it also depends on a mood/outlook of a person, ask a person who is clinically depressed if they want to hurt themselves vs after they get treatment.

You are the most unenlightened person I've ever met....

The person that you are is largely shaped first by your immediate environment in early childhood: family, neighbourhood, etc. then we are further developed in our secondary socialisation by the school, media, maybe religion, etc. Of course that has a massive influence on who you are, what you like, what you dislike, your desires, your personal morality, etc. But I did not claim that free will is free from influence, on the contrary our free will is constantly influenced by outside factors. But does that make free will irrelevant? Of course not. We can always choose to make the most ridiculous choices that go against everything we were taught.
I like x because I enjoy it, why do I enjoy it? There may be a complex process behind it, like seeing my parents or peers enjoying it or maybe because of the simple fact that I tried it and enjoyed it.
Okay buddy.

Well of course I thought that went without saying, you also don't determine your mood and your outlook

but other people's actions do, people can chose to do their status quo or change things.

Everything in the physical world is made up of mixtures of elements and your brains acts and reacts to certain molecules that are present, affecting your behavior. It's really complicated

>s-shut up

We do have free will.
But we usually spend our free will in the same ways so, it becomes very predictable.

But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

It is also true for a lot of people that having THAT much free will causes them too much anxiety and they convince themselves that they DON'T have free will to coop with life, thus religion is very popular. Your life is already set out for you by some Divine Plan and you can make NO wrong decisions.

Yet christfags still condemn criminals to hell? Wouldn't they still go to heaven for playing their role in Gods plan?
And why do they think they are going to get into heaven anyway? They have created a reward system that only those that play can win. It's simply bad logic.

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Determinism isn't a fact, it's a philosophy.

Criminals aren't supposed to be criminals. They chose to become criminals. People choose to go to hell.

you agree that we and our decisions are just a product of chemistry though, no?
as far as I know religionfag lore, criminals can go to heaven if they just trust in Jebus

Precisely. Free will

Correlating free will to chemical reaction is like correlating a loot role in DnD.
You are close, but you need to understand that the dice used for the roll has infinite sides.

So what you're saying is that when we make a roll for decision, a completely random thought emerges, and that if I rewound time to one day ago, and waited for the decision to happen again, this time, the decision would be completely different?

>as far as I know religionfag lore
as far as i know nothing ftfy
Criminals can enter heaven when they stop being criminals. You must repent and accept Christ as your lord and saviour. Most people have a perverted view of Christianity that is nowhere near the truth.
You think that you can cheat God just like the hebrews. On your deathbed you'll cry "I believe in Jesus! I can go to heaven now!" Wrong. God knows your true intentions and the content of your heart. He knows that you are wicked and don't truly believe.
Ignorance at its finest.

Only when you force it into existence and even then it’s limited
You have some amount of free will but the less you use it the less action potential is there

That's what I meant retard, "trust/believe in jesus" doesn't mean "pretend to trust/believe in jesus", they're different words. But thanks for clarification since I was not sure.

I don't know, I think not, and I accept it, because in the end it doesn't matter, I live happily with it.

>just trust in Jebus
Wrong. I did not write "just accept Jesus". You must repent, meaning that you'll change as a person, change your behaviour, your way of life. Believing is not enough.
But you're just an angsty failure that will never accept the truth, you just want to live in your filthy existence and remain angry at God for your own shitty choices.

First of all I'm not even religious, second of all, please don't lash out at me for trying to understand something foreign that I have no reason to give a shit about. I am fascinated with religion, not trying to slander it. I have made good choices, and would thank god personally for making me and the rest of the world if I met him.

Did not claim that you're religious.
You're welcome bud.

If free will doesn't exist, then why am I not living a life of luxury where I have sex every hour per my overlords?

This whole line of thought comes down to using your subjectivity to develop a theory of objectivity that you apply back to your subjectivity. But since we can never know what subjectivity is, saying it's "just chemicals," as though we aren't and can't be (for example) "in charge" of the chemicals, is its own kind of wishful thinking. Like this whole exercise comes down to, "thank god, I'm not responsible for my actions because there are chemicals."

circumstance

If God is real then there is definitely no free will just because God is all knowing.

Its both.

We have free will but only on a small scale. Ultimately its all determined.

You can have free hoice and still reach a determined outcome.

Just look at some card tricks.

Yeah I believe free will exist

Philosophy graduate, still publishing in the field here. You can argue about determinism, but I haven't heard the term "free will" since high school. Will as a Schopenhauer/Nietzsche thing, maybe, but free will isn't an object for contemporary philosophy.

God granted us free will. It's the reason why Lucifer was so pissed off, because he saw that Angels have no choice whether or not to glorify God, whereas humans do and often make the wrong choice but still God loved them more and considered them His most perfect creation. This caused Lucifer to try and usurp God.

I know the story. I grew up quite religious. Regardless, my point is that God cannot be both all knowing and grant us free will. By being omniscient, he must know before creation what choices each individual will make and if he does, that means his creations are created with their fates sealed. Essentially, it also make him responsible for evil given that he must have had foreknowledge of lucifer's rebellion, though that's just a nitpick in that area.

>can god make a boulder he cannot lift? after all, he can do anything
I think the meaning of this is that god fucking king crimsoned his knowledge of our future actions when making the world, thus "setting free" our will. I was gonna write the same thing as you but I think that this is how it's meant.

Yes but if someone is controlling my every move, why am I living a life I've chosen?

Are you so wise, as to clearly understand the mental faculties of your Creator? You don't understand the way the mind of the Lord works, so it doesn't help you to try and trap Him in little three dimensional paradoxes like that.

>God granted us free will.
Figuratively, yes.
Actually evolution allowed for that.

Because you choose based on your will, and your will is determined by circumstance. You are also questioning this because of circumstance. The reason that I think differently is circumstance, and so is the reason I am typing this for you.

I disagree with some of the sentiment here.

God knows all and gave us free will. Knowing the outcome of a situation doesn't mean there is no free will involved.

Example: your friend gets into a car, and the breaks are bad. You tell your friend, "the breaks are bad, you are going to crash this car the first time you try to stop". But your friend says, "I just drove it yesterday, it's fine man."

You say, "no, I just checked the breaks. I know that as soon as you press the pedal, the breaks will fail and you will crash." To which they respond, "no man, it's fine."

And then they drive the car and they crash. You knew they would crash, and you warned them, but they did it anyway.

Freewill is a super stupid simple nutshell.

We are actually born with a will, user. No matter what "circumstance."

It's not a paradox. It's how he gets laid out as a character in the Bible. He is either all knowing or he has the capacity to create free will.

I disagree, it's not either or, it's both
Just because you, a little mortal, don't understand how the Almighty Creator of the Universe thinks and knows doesn't mean he's not omniscient

You left out the only part that matters. God created that situation with the knowledge of everything that would happen. He must have known it and his creation led to it happening.

You disagree but your only reasoning is that God is bigger than me so I can't have a point. What makes you think you, as a mortal, have any more of a right to speak on God's behalf?

You can try and logic your way out of it but at the end of the day you do have a choice and you are going to be held accountable for your choices, whether you like it or not. Saying "God made me do it!" is stupid and inaccurate when he literally told you to do the opposite of what you did.

Yes, actually, give that we’ve moved beyond it and classical mechanics.

You didn't say anything in this post other than no u. Am I incorrect? Is there's some flaw in my logic that you can definitely point out?

What does freedom mean to you? Owning your own land without paying taxes? Being able to drive a car without a license? Being able to murder someone and get away with it?

I believe everyone means the ability to choose your actions for yourself, rather than have them dictated.

You should re-examine your unstated presuppositions, as your definition of free will becomes a straw man.

>taxes are theft
>civilized behavior is coercion
>the legal system never works
fucking trumpshit lol

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Well they are dictated to an extent by the means in which you live. But dictated by who or what?

I was just asking what
OP means by freedom

King crimsoned? Please explain.

Free will is something manmade, I dont think you can talk about free will on a grand scale, as in all of ''life'' including the universe scale, and so on. It is only relevant here on earth and in our society and in our life. I mean the thought of a free will must surely just be an effect of our ability to reflect on things. because of our conscioussnes.

I think the idea is that they are either predetermined by nature of our physical being/mind or by some underlying force, perhaps intelligent or not, that also could control them. Depending on who you ask.

I believe that free will exists to the extent of, “If I do this specific set of inputs and make sure my outputs look like these, then I’ll get to where I want to in life.” Whatever their final destination is would also be the result of an input that resonated with them, creating their desire for the output, which is actually getting there.

I would somewhat agree with this

The rational choice is to believe in free will. If free will does not exist, what we believe and don't is not up to us but pre-determined and everything will happen as it is fated to happen. But if free will does exist, believing in it will allow you to take positive actions in you life and not sink into apathy and inaction thinking that all your choices are a lie and you have no control.

The simple truth is that it doesn't matter if it exists or not. Having free will or only having the illusion of it makes absolutely no difference because you wouldn't know which was which. Even if someone were to conduct an experiment where they clearly told you that during the first run you had free will and on the subsequent run only the illusion thereof, you would still question whether what you were told was true or not.

What you really want to know is whether your actions, and more broadly your life, has meaning. To which, again, does it matter?

TLDR - it doesn't matter. Just live by this mantra:

>fuck bitches, aquire currency, smoke trees.

I believe in freewill..
It just does not feel free

No there are laws in place that regulate our free will or our choices you can't say that this is freedom

whats free will?

>we have free will cuz god said so
>not seeing retardedness here

...

No therefore we should all kill ourselves.

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Only dumb people can believe that free will exist. How can you wonder around calm as shit and thinking that free will exist? Free will means that your friends can stab you regardless thier past experience and nature
So even you think that you believe in free will, you are acting like there is no free will!

Free will is an illusion, but we can't untangle the illusion, so for all practical purposes it exists

It's a movie about your mom

The act of "choosing" between different behaviors does not mean that you have free will. It means that you are not a unique identity. Your identity is build from different voices inside you. To simplify, the bad and good parts of you are fighting everytime, and the one that win is the strongest one in such situation. No free will needed

what kind of experience do u have, that u thinkg "will" means "mom", u fucking homo-rised faggot?

> You don't really believe that free will exists, do you?
Of course I do. I have no choice.

They choose to become criminals.
They don't choose to go to jail.

A signal is sent to your brain before the person reportedly think about that action. How do you explain free will, when taking that into account.

Please define 'free will'.

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Despite new age crystal lore, the real question is whether quantum effects have any macro effect on the human brain.

Most physicists/neurologists say 'no'. A few fringe theorists say (increasingly nervously) that quantum effects might apply to molecular formations in the neurons. (see micro-tubule formation)

Overall, this theory is not taken seriously. The world at our level of consciousness is effectively deterministic. The illusion of free will is born from the immensely vast array of variables surrounding us.

But science marches on, so maybe we'll decide free will is a thing someday.

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I do not have freedom of will. I have freedom of choice, and I do not need freedom of will to make choices.

If you don't have freedom of will then your choice is meaningless?

>what is free will
>what is a complex system of your own chemicals that make up your mind that allows you to come to conclusions and answers based on your own experiences
Imagine being this user, and just not having any brain at all.

I'm not sure what you mean

That wasn't the question. OP asks if I believe in my freedom of will. I don't. But, I would make choices in any case. Therefore, as I said, while I do not have freedom of will, I have freedom of choice. Freedom to entertain choices, regardless.

Why are you concerned with their value? What would that effectively change about the existence of the choices themselves?