In Silence, did Father Rodrigues go to heaven or was he sentenced to eternal damnation?

In Silence, did Father Rodrigues go to heaven or was he sentenced to eternal damnation?

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He was a piece of shit apostate. He actively worked against the church informing on secret Christians.[/spoilers]

This question presupposes we can understand a higher being, his actions and non-actions and their reasoning.

Thus, the question itself is faulty.

What you need to ask is, and which is evident "did Father Rodrigues still have faith"

Weebs go to hell

>God will send you to hell if you step on a picture of Jesus for the sake of saving innocent lives from torture and a horrible death

What's his fucking problem?

True faith expresses itself in tangible ways. His since pride and sense of self preservation always superceded his religious duty and obligations. This is not true faith. He most likely got dozens of christians killed by being an informant.

the power of images that insists upon people.

it was a problem for many people, just take a cursory look at history of christianity

Neither. The movie was about conformity and control.
The Japanese Inquisitor knew the ideology could unite people against their own beliefs, and threaten the feudalism of the Japanese nobles.
There's one scene where the peasants say they already paid their taxes, and some churches encouraged you to tithe.

youtube.com/watch?v=5Th7Tiz1cEk

Hell, he was an apostate.

Ever read the Bible? God often got butthurt for less

In Silence, Father Rodrigues is played by so incredibly badly by Andrew Garfield that everything he says loses all the meaning since he doesnt manage to convince audience for one second that he is actually the character.

eternal damnation

D R O P P E D
R
O
P
P
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eternal damnation in heaven

He was sentenced to eternal kino.
Andrew was great.

no way .. andrew was great. Why would you even say that? He is perfect for these kind of roles and he was perfect as Desmond Doss in Hacksaw Ridge aswell ... stay mad

The based bishop was right. Great video.

>This is not true faith

well wrong ... the entire movie revolves around this theme. "What is true faith?" / "How to express faith?"

I think what the movie was trying to say is that its between you and god. Only God can decide what is true and what is not because it can be invisible to the outside word. Its not only about the silence from god its also about your own silence meaning you don't have to be very outspoken about your faith to know that you believe in God.

I think the movie touched a very contemporary topic but there are too many edgy atheists out there that screech down anything that has to do with religion even though the movie was really thoughtful and discussed a lot of things they just outright discard it because they hate anything religious

This is true. This is also blatantly spoonfed to the viewer. It's sad you have to feedback what the film in dialogue insists to point out the meaning of a simple film to Sup Forums

Besides the film was shit, MS is a fucking hack.

He didn't go anywhere, god doesn't exist.

>Besides the film was shit, MS is a fucking hack.

don't cut yourself on that edge bro

Thats right my enlightened chap

He was not an informant, the film explicitly states that the Japanese didn't care about persecuting Christians, just silencing their leaders.

>His since pride and sense of self preservation always superseded his religious duty and obligations
But his sense of pride is what made him let others suffer for so long, he wanted to die a martyr like christ. Giving that up, and denying his religion that he thinks will give him salvation was the most christlike thing he could do.

i thought atheists only say things they can prove with scientific evidence and without a shadow of a doubt

rly makes ya fink

I'm an atheist and I loved this and The Young Pope.

I agree that the movie asks a very compelling question and offers up and extremely difficult situation. However, there are hints in the book and in the movie that show he was not acting as a christian. The book takes the side that the father was not truly a christian from my interpretation. There is not ending crucifix scene in the book. Also in the book and movie, when he steps on the fumie, a cock crows. Just as it did when Peter betrayed Christ. This symbolizes betrayal in the Bible. Sure, he still has a chance to repent, but he didn't. For the remainder of his life he issues refutations of Christianity, denies Jesus Christ, and actively endangers Christians living in Japan. Unless, right at the end, he finally gave his life to God. But don't you think God would see through the whole charade? He tried to pull the wool over God's eyes. The ending scene was added because Scorsese wanted to offer up his beliefs. He clearly believed the father could still retain his faith despite it all.

This Is for you

TYP was written like a shitty sit-com. Don't get what people see in it. And I like Sorrentino's films.

Atheists are more easily triggered than fucking muslims, holy shit

Can't you watch a movie about faith without throwing a hissy fit?

You forget how horny Christians got over the student(s?) at Columbine who supposedly refused to deny Christ with a gun in their face. In many evangelical or orthodox sections even today, denying your allegiance of Christ—even if lying would actually save the lives of your family, your friends, or other "good" people and fellow Christians—is a terrible thing, and apparent proof that you are not truly saved.

>gets triggered in miliseconds by someone joking about the existence of his sky fairy
>accuses person of throwing a hissy fit

Bible fuckers are really the greatest meme.

>flat, emotionless sentence, simply stating contrary belief
>a hissy fit

Spoilers faggot.

not that guy but your autism is showing, fuck off.

What do you mean? There are no spoilers in the title. Everyone dies and is judged eventually.

Cuck on me, son. Cuck.

good question
Does anyone know if a Chick Tract covers this?

>You forget how horny Christians got over the student(s?) at Columbine who supposedly refused to deny Christ with a gun in their face.

It was just one student. The story was that she was asked if she believed in God and was shot after saying yes. Most witnesses say nothing of the sort actually happened.

haven't read the book but i get what you mean.

>But don't you think Gold would see through the whole charade?

Thats the thing. Who knows except for God? We can only have an opinion on this. There are hints and guidelines here and there in the bible but in the end the final judgement is with God. Yes he might have endangered christians or denied jesus christ.

Who says God can't forgive? What if God doesn't want that people actively sacrifice themselves instead of living their life etc.

So many questions

You should turn the other cheek instead of insulting me, bro.

>Rodrigues-san, you rack disciprine. you no true kirishitan

The faggot playing the Inquisitor and the Inquisitor and translator were fucking -twirling-mustache-tier evil funny

Andrew Garfeld masked to look as much as Jesus as the kikes could was also funny

So much love suddenly for someone they killed

I agree mostly but I just want to say that God does want us to be willing to sacrifice ourselves. There are countless stories in the Bible of crucifixion and martyrdom that are praised. Martyrs will help rule the Earth in the millennial kingdom.

>Would have the entire christian population of japan slowly and systematically executed and tortured just so 1 priest can remain faithful

What a complete and utter retard - I'm sure his congregation would love to hear him explain it to them if he were put in a similar situation

Christianity isn't easy. All those martyrs would go on to live in eternal paradise. It seems a fair tradeoff to me.

>christianity aint easy - the country of japan gotta be litterd with the blood of innocents

Yeah, it's one thing to speak for yourself and choose death over denying christ, but to say that a person should insist others suffer for his own spiritual glory is amoral and narcissistic.

Martyrdom is the easiest thing in the world if you really believe you're going to be born again in paradise. A hell of a lot easier than earning god's love the normal way, when apparently not wanting to see people tortured makes you unworthy of him

>not my christianity reeeeeeeeeeeeee

lol hes doing actually what the movie criticizes

>bring slowly and brutally tortured is easy
Hmm

He didn't just deny Christ that one time. He did it the rest of his life.

For the sake of all the Kirishitans enduring safety.

He potentially gives up salvation over and over to save others. A purely selfless act of love. How is that not what Christ would want him to do? Forget Catholic dogma and look just at Christ's actions.

He didn't save anyone except for that one time. He saved his own ass.

His ass was never in danger, that was the whole point of the movie. They were going to torture and kill every christian in japan until he apostatized, but not the priests.

Fuck this nigger

>dude, just apostatise lol
>and then betray Christ for the rest of your life
>you'll still be a Christian in your heart

Not true. It never said they would torture every christian in japan. He did it because they would have fucked him up.

That scene where he first speaks Japanese to Andrew Garfield's character is weird.

He likes, starts to talk Japanese but instantly looks down to hide his mouth

You're just lying now

Because he was used to Japanese and forgot Rodrigues spoke english only.

Nice counterpoint and evidence. Clearly you aren't interested in honest discussion.

>Rodrigues spoke English only
ahahahahhaahah
ahahahahah

The climax of the film that breaks him is not his own threat of torture, but the umpteenth display of brutality to japanese christians.

That's completely correct. My point is that after this event he is never threatened with the torture of all the christians in japan. It was pure selfishness from that point on, at least from what the movie showed. And one million earthly lives are not worth one man's eternity.
Sorry I meant he didn't speak good Japanese. One of his captors even brought up this point.

I guess it depends on whether you take the scenes of him seeing Jesus in the water and talking to him before he steps on the little panel literally or not

Either way I think the movie is more about pride than anything, taken non literally the scene where he sees Jesus's face in the water is literally about him seeing himself as a Jesus figure, and he also contextualizes the suffering of the Japanese people and compares it to how Jesus suffered, when he could've chosen to believe in his faith without needing to be prideful and told them to do the same but chose not to

Even the Japanese inquisitor and his men didn't really seem to give a shit as long as they were keeping up appearances, it was all about the "formality" of stepping on the little plaques they brought out

True faith is not for one's own spiritual glory, it's for staying true to God. He betrayed God. It's that simple.

It wasn't Jesus talking to him. When he steps on it the cock crows. Just as when Peter betrayed Jesus. I believe this was meant to show that he was hearing what he wanted to hear or was being fooled by the devil/a demon.

He saved himself AND he damned every soul who turned away from Christ or was never brought to Christ by his example. He burns in hell for this.

>fooled by the devil
oh yes

aren't we all

>My point is that after this event he is never threatened with the torture of all the christians in japan.
I thought this was obviously implied

>It was pure selfishness from that point on, at least from what the movie showed. And one million earthly lives are not worth one man's eternity.
One million earthly lives are not his to throw away.

In the film Rodrigues very clearly has a Christ/martyr complex.

>it was Jesus talking to him
literally no

hell

there is no god in the movie's universe

This film was so fucking shit

No. They aren't his to throw away. The Japanese are throwing these lives away. God knows everything and has a plan for each of us. His plan would NEVER require one of his children to deny him. Even considering this shows a very damaged and faulty theology.

you don't seriously believe in all this shit you spout do you

Absolutely. With every fiber of my being.

mentally ill people wev

>literally abandoning Christ when your faith is tested is a good thing
I wonder (((who))) thinks this

I wish my faith was as strong as yours. I try to be a good catholic and want to believe that God has a plan for me but I just can't understand why he tests me so much and makes me so depressed everyday if he actually loves me.

I like how fucked up and cynical your retarded religion is. Suffering for eternity because you denounce one of thousands conceptionalized sky fairies, that never show themselves.

God wants you to spend less time one Sup Forums, hit the gym and screw a bunch of chicks. Believe me, he just revealed it to me.

>never show themselves

I have periods of doubt and depression. I struggle with why God lets bad things happen to good people. I get angry at God. I'm a loathsome human being at times. But I've found that lots of reading and study of the Bible has answers for these questions and explanations for the suffering. Being a Christian is not an easy thing and Jesus never intended it to be that way. Humans are subject to the foul effects of our and others free will. I don't want to write a book so I just want to end by recommend a few books that helped me enormously. Mere Christianity and The Problem of Pain. These books are essential reading for any struggling Christian and I think you will benefit greatly. They deal with the exact questions you've asked and they are written by the greatest Christian mind of the 20th century.

In the same manner, reliability and fequency the sasquatch does.

I-I-I'll try I guess.

Thanks user, I honestly appreciate it.

I think you virgins need to get laid really bad.

Sorry lad. I'm only 18 and waiting for marriage. Thanks for the Sup Forums advice though.

That movie was boring as hell.

I had sex last night. Reason I'm a bad catholic #54645645.

Who here believes that it was actually the voice of Jesus he heard within the context of the story or is it just me?

Rodrigues made his choice and he did not choose God. It is that black and white.

Being faithful 99% of the time is being unfaithful. Being privately faithful but publicly unfaithful is being unfaithful.

The way I see it is that movies have be one of two things:
1) Entertaining
2) Thought provoking and meaningful

I think this movie satisfies the second option.
I think the cock crowing showed this was a demonic deception or a figment of his imagination.

>I struggle with why God lets bad things happen to good people.

Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people. Don't get distracted by that. What you need to do is make good decisions in life and good will come to you. The good can come in many forms.

I agree but really good movies can be entertaining and simultaneously meaningful.
I think Silence was very repetitive. The message was incredibly "on-the-nose" and it was repeated over and over again.

These are moments of emotional distress where my emotions override reason. Although I don't think good will always come. Some Christians live lives of endless suffering. But the Bible tells us that those who are last on Earth will be first in Heaven. 80 years of suffering is nothing against eternity. You have to put your hope in God and what he prepares for us.

>some christians live lives of endless suffering

who exactly? are you talking historically or current year? what is suffering exactly to you?

>we worship with the jism

what did the japs mean by this?

Some children are abused constantly by their parents from the moment of their birth. Raped, beaten, insulted. There are stories every year of these children dying from their injuries. I don't believe these souls found their peace and goodness on Earth. There are many more examples but I don't want to waste your time. I think suffering is loneliness, pain, dejection, and many more things.

Yeah, that sounds rather spot on. Not a very spiritual person myself at all but I loved this film. Beautifully shot and very interesting hefty themes discussed throughout.

Funny how it's actually quite relevant in spite of its period setting, with the gradual loss of faith in God the Western world.

Although I don't believe in God I don't think being an Atheist gives you that much enlightenment.

What's more important than whether or not you believe in God I think is the morals you follow and the beliefs you hold. If you realise that you can't believe in a God any more, you don't gain any kind of enlightenment unless you seek to discover what you do believe morally and philosophically.

Child abuse is why I have a hard time with the thought God actually exists. Why would he let these innocents go through such horrors if he could prevent it? What does that say about God? It all makes me very sad.