I'm a trans individual who has been on Sup Forums for years. I've yet to see any definitive proof that anything which is largely accepted by the trans community is bad for them, and I'm here to address these issues.
Let's get a hot topic out of the way first: gender reassignment surgery is as necessary for individuals experiencing severe gender dysphoria as chemo would be for a cancer patient. Yes, some people still unfortunately kill themselves. But, every single person who undergoes surgery who doesnt is a person whose life is saved. It is not cosmetic, it is life saving.
Secondly, estrogen is not bad for your mind or body in any way as an assigned-at-birth male. There is zero scientific evidence that it is. This is baseless and only serves to scare people away from taking the medicine they need
Third: it can be "too late to change". I am 37 and I only began hrt 5 years ago. Within two years I was visually passing and now my voice sounds indistinguishable from any other woman's.
Finally, that it is bad for children to transition. Most children have no issue with this and think it's cool to know a trans individual. And giving children estrogen does in fact make it easier on them psychologically to go through their lives as a woman. There is zero evidence that any child has experienced adverse effects growing up compared to non-trans children.
I will talk to anyone about any of these things. I'm just sick of seeing baseless bullshit spewed about us on this board. Seeing that stuff early on in my transition made me think about some things I never want to think about again. And anyone who posts pictures of girls who are having trouble passing is participating in psychological abuse.
If your brain think you are in the wrong body, then your brain have a problem and people who love you should try to help you, not accept it and make you embrace that problem. But sadly these people with mental problems dont hear their family or people who are outside their ''acceptance'' circles, so the problem became irreparable.
Anthony Foster
you're fucked in the head and an abomination in the eyes of humanity.
do us all a favour and an hero
Kayden Gonzalez
It’s 48
Ryder Clark
These are all abusive lies. I cannot wait until trannies cease to exist Also, you made me lose my appetite. You are single handedly helping me lose weight.
Dylan Diaz
fuck you and your trans bullshit... you need to shut the FUCK up
Andrew Ortiz
Yo, OP, I've taken everything you said into consideration, and mostly agree with your points. I just have one question I have always wanted to know and wondered if you could clear it up for me. Would you suck a log of shit out of Andy Sixx's asshole?
Go cut your dick or tits off on another board faggot
James Taylor
Your brain is part of your body though Don't discount intersex situations eitheeithep
Tyler Roberts
>Let's get a hot topic out of the way first: gender reassignment surgery is as necessary for individuals experiencing severe gender dysphoria as chemo would be for a cancer patient. In some cases, sure. It is definitely over-prescribed, though. It's widely recognized that other forms of plastic surgery are not the preferred treatment for other mental disorders. They may be used as stopgap measures, potentially along with medication, but the ultimate solution in most cases is therapy - coming to terms with who you are is far more long-term productive than trying to achieve some usually unobtainable physical ideal. (there are, of course, some exceptions) The same applies to gender dysphoria. More so, in fact, since in some jurisdictions it's literally the first thing assumed when gender based disorders come up (sometimes before they're even properly diagnosed).
Joseph Taylor
No this is Sup Forums we can talk about what we want. If you don't like it leave
Xavier Ortiz
>Within two years I was visually passing Doubtful
Joseph Russell
You can always leave if you can't handle listening to what we have to say
Dylan James
>There is zero evidence that any child has experienced adverse effects growing up compared to non-trans children. This is a flat out falsehood, because it only needs a single case to disprove it (and multiple exist) You could argue that on balance the harm caused by transitioning children is less than the harm caused by not transitioning them, and then it comes down to longitudinal study results (which are surprisingly thin on the ground, currently).
>I cannot wait until trannies cease to exist Well I guess you'll be waiting a long fucking time
Chase Cooper
Being intersex is so incredibly rare and makes for a shitty argument. Anytime anyone tries to bring this up as some kind of winning argument I immediately dismiss them as being creditable.
Jace Wright
Indeed, it's like saying humans aren't a bipedal species because some people are born without two legs.
Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female one in 100 births
So that's 70,000,000 people.............
Nolan Edwards
Just google intersex rates...
Ian Reed
OP, your "people" need YOU to help the cause and increase this number to 50%
Bentley Wood
Literally all of this is false and dangerous to spread, to the point where I'm sure this is just a troll. For more information on why specifically it's a disgusting thing to push on children, look into Dr. John Money's research. Kids that are pushed to these things kill themselves, and this has been proven many times. It's sick that you are inadvertently, if not advertantly are advocating for more kids to kill themselves. Don't believe a word of this drivel. T. Psychiatrist
Christian Morales
> some > 40 %
yeah m8, I stopped there
Wyatt Cook
Yeah trans people aren't woman sorry break it to you. Just fetish really
Alexander Morris
1. You are ignoring trans men 2. People don't really get sexual gratification from it
Carter Evans
>Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female one in 100 births That figure is misleading as it's referring to non sexual organ differences from "standard" too (eg, being born with an additional finger would count) The actual rate of ambiguous biological sex is around an order of magnitude lower, in the area of 1/1000
Evan Rodriguez
Compared to the whole population of the world that is a blip on the radar.
I already know the %'s. Still doesn't change the fact that it's a very small portion of the world's population. In most those cases an intersex leans towards one gender over the other, and surgery can be had to help with any health complications. I know an intersex individual, and he lived his life as male, identified as male, and never questioned it. He only figured out he was intersex was he started to become ill on a regular basis due his internal lady parts starting to die. Once he got surgery to remove everything he went on with life has normal.
Elijah Turner
I totally agree, OP. Also, the voices that schizophrenics hear are real and they should be encouraged to listen to them and do what they say. Its completely normal.
Imagine your hand act like a feet. You have a problem.
Caleb Jackson
False, it wouldn't include extra fingers. My figure only factors sex differences, but does include on genitalia differences. This is like sex hormones imbalance that can influence gender. The figure 1 in 1000 is misleading because it only represents only genitalia difrences that are present at birth. This doesn't include differences that happen over time or hormonal differences.
Gavin Myers
Kys tranny faggot Your parents hate you and so does everybody else
Jacob Martin
why did i lose to this?
Leo Davis
Yes we are talking about all intersex people...so I included all of them. Haha you're just silly now.
William Ortiz
Since you've said all this other bullshit, you get one more shot:
Is is morally reprehensible to tell people who are still their genetic sex, to use the bathroom intended for their genetic sex?
Or are you as full of shit and insane as the China loving NBA and psycho government of California who boycott anyone who thinks adult men shouldn't be in little girl's bathrooms.
I'll take my answer off the air.
John Baker
If you have to go on a rant THAT LONG, your point is moot, and you are a super faggot. Shut the fuck up.
Jacob Fisher
Small is subjective, but they exist in the tens of millions...
Yea, that was that one person's experience and only that
Henry Barnes
it's bait you fags lol
Jayden Baker
Speaking of which, why won't you transfags come out and speak up for the fact that your existence: 1. Disproves feminism, because feminist theory requires the religious adherence to the idea that gender is a social construct. If gender isn't a social construct, then out goes the patriarchy. And gender traits are natural, meaning women need to shut the fuck up about masculinity.
2. Put these bandwagon leftist faggots like previously stated NBA and California in their place when they say stupid shit because if being trans is real, then by definition gender is different from sex. And IF gender is different from sex, it's not "anti-trans" to refer to an XY as a Male Sex, or an XX as a Female Sex or to expect XX and XY to compete differently since in those instances it's about physical traits, not psychological identity.
Having women's only XX sports is not fucking anti-trans because gender is a psychological identity and running fast isn't psychological.
Oliver Mitchell
> Not XX and not XY one in 1,666 births > Klinefelter (XXY) one in 1,000 births > Androgen insensitivity syndrome one in 13,000 births > Partial androgen insensitivity syndrome one in 130,000 births > Classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia one in 13,000 births > Late onset adrenal hyperplasia one in 66 individuals > Vaginal agenesis one in 6,000 births > Ovotestes one in 83,000 births > Idiopathic (no discernable medical cause) one in 110,000 births > Iatrogenic (caused by medical treatment, for instance progestin administered to pregnant mother) no estimate > Complete gonadal dysgenesis one in 150,000 births > Hypospadias (urethral opening in perineum or along penile shaft) one in 2,000 births > Hypospadias (urethral opening between corona and tip of glans penis) one in 770 births
Several of the above (particularly the last two and the hyperplasias) don't necessarily result in ambiguous sex - in fact they usually don't. The first two are actually contradictory, as Klinefelter Syndrome is "Not XX and not XY", yet has a higher prevalence. So the numbers aren't reliable, merely ballpark. That puts it in the order of 1/1000 at best.
The source mentions the 1/100 number, but the two working sources linked from the page don't support it, and 1/100 is around the same as figures on general gross physical birth defects in general. So either it's supportable using a broader meaning of "standard" beyond mere sex organs, or the referenced 1/100 is so generally cast as to be not terribly useful (a mannish woman is still usually unambiguously a woman, for example). It's playing with the numbers and definitions to give a conveniently emotionally persuasive result. It's dishonest.
Taking estrogen hospitalized me with hyperkalimia and I was near death had I not gone into the ER when I lost control of my right arm and left leg
I've told this to trans people before but they say I'm lying because it's difficult to admit that we know next to nothing about hormone therapy and how dangerous it is
Hormone therapy almost killed me. Id rather learn to love myself as I am than die.
Are you denying someone's lived experience? You. Fucking. Bigot.
Justin Ramirez
So you don't agree with your own sources...
You really like picking and choosing numbers
Hunter Bell
No that's what I am agreeing with. That was that single persons singular experience.
Nicholas Ortiz
Im still confused how you dont have the same rights as everyone else?!?
Brandon Lee
>I am 37 and I only began hrt 5 years ago.
Enjoy your last 3 years buddy
Camden Jenkins
I was choosing a source sympathetic to the other side of the subject. Then referenced THEIR sources to verify their numbers. I threw away the numbers not supported by THEIR sources (the 1/100) and went with the supported/supportable numbers they had. That's just being reasonably rigorous. If you can find the source of the 1/100 figure, and it doesn't disagree with what I said, that'd be awesome. I love being proven wrong.
Tyler James
>If you can find the source of the 1/100 figure, and it doesn't disagree with what I said, that'd be awesome. I love being proven wrong. And it does disagree with what I said. You know what I mean.
James White
If trans rights are human rights, why are normal human rights not sufficient for trans people?
Fact is: You will never know how it is to be raised as a girl. You will never have real tits, a real vagina and a womb. You will never have teenage girl talk. You will never be a real women. You will always be a wannabe. It's in your DNA.
Why would society support weirdo's? I'm totally OK if people decide to wreck their body with some surgery, but please, keep me out of it.
Well since you obviously want to be roasted, here it is : trans "individuals" are not people anymore. The ability to procreate (no matter whether you choose to or not) that comes with your natural gender brings with it a role in society and a way to behave in it. By mutilating yourself, you cut yourself from the society of people. You're not humans anymore, not even animals. Lab rats deserve more rights than you.
Tyler Morales
In fact, if you follow through to their sources (which they host on their own site) -
>How often do physicians find themselves unsure which gender to assign at birth? One 1993 gynecology text estimates that “in approximately 1 in 500 births, the sex is doubtful because of the external genitalia.” I am persuaded by more recent, well-documented literature that estimates the number to be roughly 1 in 1,500 live births. To get to 1/100 after birth from there requires TEN TIMES more people subsequently deviate substantially from their birth biological sex, which given how much gross feature development occurs in the womb vs afterwards is... a big claim.
So yeah. The "Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female one in 100 births" is misleading because it's so broad as to include cases where there's not genuine uncertainty about biological sex.
A small penis or a large clitoris or extra hair on a woman or a slight breast to a man doesn't really call into question their biological sex. It's just a minor quirk of their body. To say that such features include someone in the "intersex" banner dilutes the usefulness of the term and the relevance of it in society.
Ian Ward
They kill themselves a lot They are literally mentally I'll and embracing it rather than confronting reality and/or trauma They take unnatural hormones sometimes They mutilate their bodies sometimes They shove objects into their anus sometimes (literally damages body every single time) They usually stay in a victim mentality which attracts only misery They are typically amoral and sometimes immoral (hurts themselves and society) They sometimes try to dictate the speech of others (eats away at free speech[eats away at society{eats away at themselves}]). Sometimes the reinforcement of their illness along with the chemicals they intake make them hypersexual (disease, instant gratification addiction, regrets) They often have addictions due to the irrationality of their life choices They often expose themselves at pride parades with children present or at strange book readings with children (just happened). They encourage children to mimic their behavior and watch them twerk in underwear for money. They sterilize themselves which hurts reproduction of the species They are often sluts and try to get married people to cheat on their partners They often spread disease on Grindr They are wrapped up in materialism more than most humans (maya addiction ensures they never escape Samsara).
Blake Ross
>implying gender dysphoria is biological >implying you can't control your mind >implying kids know how to make adult decisions Nature defines you the way you are and instead of not controlling yourself from within (your mind and or soul/spirit) you have decided to believe in the everything outside yourself first saying you came to the conclusion on your own. I honestly have 0 problems with trans people but when you come up in ere saying everything we think about you and your community is wrong its contradictory to both nature and logic. You're the one that is incorrect go live your life and stop putting your contrary perspectives down societies throat thanks.
So you have a mental illness, trying to push it on others before killing yourself.
Isaiah Moore
This...fucking this
Luke Watson
>812796301 >implying you can't control your mind Eh, it's not a natural thing, and there are some aspects that you can't directly control. It's a bit like the whole "Don't think of X" trick. Most people will think of whatever "X" you use immediately. Therapy can be very effective, and boils down to teaching you how to control your own mind, but can be helped by drugs and physical changes too. When the drugs and physical changes are just considered the "fix" by themselves though, you have a problem.
Matthew Reyes
why talk op? your opinion doesnt matter. Just shoot yourself in the head so there is one less mentally ill person on this planet so your shitty life choices and mental health dont affect others.
Cooper Myers
End
Robert Ortiz
> trans rights
name one "right" a trans person doesn't have purely because they're trans.
> trans rights are human rights
what this means is "we're trans - we want extra rights that only apply to us because we're trans and we want the other 99.9% of society to change the way they act just because we're trans"
GTFO with this bullshit
if you want to cut your cock off and call yourself a woman, go ahead, i won't stop you. where i draw the line is your insistence that i (and the other 99.9% of society) have to play a part in your delusion.
Isaiah Peterson
They should only do that if they stay in this retarded "trans rights" phase that the Babylonians are pushing.
If he can come to see his ills, he can be a good example of what not to do.... Like many trans people become after transitioning.... If they dont kill themselves.
Austin Morris
Do you consider gender dysphoria a mental illness and if so wouldn’t a gender reassignment be giving into it instead of treating it where it originates, like the rest of mental illnesses, in the brain?
Jeremiah Ross
>some aspects that you can't directly control. with enough practice and discipline you can control your mind no matter where it goes i've never been to therapy and don't need to reading philosophy and bits and pieces of psychological works is my therapy. If you cannot fix yourself from within the bottom line is you will never fix yourself and being brutally fucking honest on yourself is a guaranteed factor to helping yourself. if you don't make the unconscious conscious you will always have issues this is why the suicide rate for trans people is so high you want to lie to yourselves and not confront a brutal truth that'll destroy you but in the end if you don't let the truth destroy you you will just destroy yourselves without even knowing until it's too late.
Zachary Long
>>There is zero evidence that any child has experienced adverse effects growing up compared to non-trans children.
David Reimer
Blake Smith
Sparks arnt landing right mate ..... anything else is simply bullshit to justify .
You are a gay . You want to smoke the cock . Thats a given . So the mindset also says i want to be a women , well son no matter how much lipstick you put on a pig its still a pig and no matter how much you assume the gaydar will always give you away in milliseconds now and forever .
So you are a man , attracted to men , who wants to be a women to then attract men who want men even though you are now a women ....... gun+mouth = no suprises
Seek real help . Not among those who think your a cunt for the fucked up mindset and certainly not from those who will promote everythings great if you `become` a women . Seek some understand from realists , family and friends and good luck to you .
As for the promotion to fuck up kids its simply child abuse and should be treated as such . Take the kids off them and give them to people who have the kids welfare at heart and not a fuckin idiology and castrate the fucks who would do this to the helpless and those whom the trust and love with everything and let them down so badly .
Ayden Wood
Trannies are not sane beings, put them down by outing them and making fun of these non human weirdos.
>But, every single person who undergoes surgery who doesnt is a person whose life is saved Post statistics proving that 100% of transpeople without surgery kill themselves.
James Evans
Funny really .If op was placed on a desert island fighting for survival he would soon dispell out of his mind any notion of the idea of being born into the wrong body . He would simply revert to being a gay . The modern age and access to others to create a fucked up mindset if so easy . Dumb shit and the madness of others perpetuated in an endless circle .
Jacob Johnson
Nice lies you have copied and ready today, Schlomo Goldbergerstein
Jeremiah Richardson
you are mentally ill, you should be in a mental hospital until you are well. You are a physical danger to yourself and a moral and emotional danger to all children you come into contact with. You are a drain on society until you overcome your sickening delusions.
Caleb Morales
First women get the right to vote, then niggers are desegregated, and now you want us to allow mentally ill men and women to be something they're not or suffer consequences? Go fuck yourself.
Justin Jones
>I've never been to therapy Congratulations. Many people need to be taught some things though, as self-learning isn't reliable for all subjects for all people, or may take simply too long (for example, single-handedly rediscovering all modern physics is probably impossible in a single person's lifetime, but with teaching things can be accomplished faster)
I'm not saying therapy's magic, it's just having someone who's already learnt ways to achieve a goal, help someone seeking that goal to get there.
That said, yes, there are some things in your mind you cannot entirely control, as some have a biological basis. Schizophrenics cannot cease being schizophrenic, though they can learn to manage their schizophrenia for the most part.
I'm not disagreeing the trans suicide rate is high. The reasons seem to be complex. Comorbidity of other mental health issues is high, and when attention is focused on the gender issues sometimes the other issues go improperly managed - leading to suicide. Over/mis-diagnosis is a problem, where other disorders (or no disorder) get treated as gender dysphoria improperly, with improper or unneeded treatment causing more issues. Improper treatment is another problem - the issue I mentioned with focussing on drugs (hrt) and physical changes (surgery) at the expense of handling the mental issues - this tends to result in short term benefits but long term problems and then suicide. It's not unique to gender issues, but it's certainly a hotspot right now.
(I'm not trans or even particularly pro-trans, just taking a frank and reasonable approach to the whole thing)
Luke Wood
...
Xavier Sanders
All I hear is blah blah I'm a troll cause this is as bad as cancer. Wtf faggot.
Its just drama and justification for the fucked up state of affairs .
> cancer , untreated = death > trans mental illness , untreated = life
Jace Evans
When the economy collapses the fags will go back in the closet and the women will go back to the kitchen where they fucking belong, or they'll be raped and or killed. Twitter wont be there to save them lmao
Asher Kelly
Kinda how science works. Personal anecdotes hold absolutely no water, and infact are completely irrelevant, it's even intellectually dishonest to try to debate with a personal anecdote.
Cooper Rogers
Shut the fuck up tranny. You subhuman shitstain. Stop normalizing your mental illness and check yourself into a psych ward. Trans "people" are disgusting and offensive to the female image. If even a passable one managed to get me home and I found a cock or a mutilated pseudo vagina, I would throw them off my 15th story balcony
The fact that people actually support you here is even more pathetic. Just slit your wrists and jerk yourself off to death
Oliver Allen
I can't afford reassignment surgery. If I cut my dick and balls off with a razor will I still be allowed to go into the women's toilet
Juan Moore
You retards do it all the time, that was the point. Sorry you missed it.
Adrian Ward
i think if humans were still living in survival and primitive times the fucking thought of being a trans gender/sexual person wouldn't even be an existent thought for there would be no means or way to go about making that thought practical thus nature does not give a shit about trans people because nature didn't need it only humans do/think they do. Sorry not sorry nature is the ultimate truth not a human who knows how to speak their mind.
is their fault for not wanting to self learn even if the system teaches you nothing about it you can still have existential thoughts which leads to self learning. It's a mere disposition though not all people can/will have those thoughts but that's still the fault of the individual. You can only know what you know and if you want to know more there's nothing stopping you besides yourself and people seem to struggle with this simple and mystical truth. I like the idea of therapy because it's wholesome it's just not for me because i bothered to self learn and ask and dig around for answers to the big questions and the biggest thing is to brutally honest and objective yourself because that's what therapy becomes. Answers you're afraid to hear because the answer is always there lying in the unconscious till it becomes conscious but most people don't want to admit it to themselves they want someone else to tell them and that to me is confusing. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness though it makes zero sense to say it isn't. It is not a complex reason it is a confused state of mind mixed with contrary opinions and social conditioning because if you read up there ^ (the very first paragraph of this reply) it alludes to my point on social conditioning. I highly admire your rationality and ability to discuss and not argue. Good job user
Carter Green
So are they user
Blake Brooks
No. It's 2019, the women's restroom is for women with penu only.
Eli Young
Consider this, we know it's not the fact that it's because they're depressed alone, because depression is so common in people, we should see similar patterns in standard humans. It seems like the unusual number of suicides is actually directly linked to the usage of surgery to treat mental illness. Just like when we bored holes in your brain to fix your personality.
