I don't understand why the South seceding from the United States was such a HUGE fucking issue that required the North...

I don't understand why the South seceding from the United States was such a HUGE fucking issue that required the North to bait them into a war.

I mean the ENTIRE FUCKING SOUTH wanted to secede (and did) from the United States. It was their right. The Founding Fathers would have supported their right to secede from a nation they considered oppressive and tyrannical.

I think it's pretty fucking dumb that Lincunt and the North were so butthurt over "MUH UNITY" and "MUH SLAYVUREEEEEEEEE".

The Southern states had every RIGHT to secede.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Circle_(proposed_country)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantation_economy
amren.com/features/2011/12/racial-unity-american-republic/
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

>I don't understand why the South seceding from the United States was such a HUGE fucking issue that required the North to bait them into a war.
Because the South included the port of New Orleans, the single most important location to the country's economy (and tax revenue) at that time. The North couldn't afford to be separated from it.

So?

That doesn't give the North the right to invade and bully the South.

Deo vindice brug

I absolutely agree. I wish we did let them leave. Imagine having such a low nigger population in the south. That would be fantastic.

>That doesn't give the North the right to invade and bully the South.

well the north won so they did have a right to.

Might makes right. If you dont like it fight harder next time

>bait them into a war
>South literally attacked Fort Sumter after denying Anderson's conditional surrender request
>literally threw a temper tantrum and split off because they knew if they couldn't literally own literal human beings as god damned property their state economies would collapse because they can't adjust
>they get blown the fuck out by real america like the god damned traitor punks they are
>still fucking salty about it a century+ later
>

>low
>in the south

Thats true, but if you take away a whole nations most important income source. You can bet your ass they will come after you.

Look, I agree with you that the South made some mistakes, but did you just actually imply that freeing the niggers was a good thing?

The civil war had nothing to do with slavery, it's was the consolidation of central power. Lincoln could not afford having tge tenth amendment in his way. Him and his Hamiltonians used force to expand state power and control

it wasnt about slavery, look it up.
Lincoln signed the anti slaver amendment in the very end of the war. He told the south "either give up and end the war now or after we win, we will ban slavery".
Check the dates of the amendment and dates of the civil war.

>bait them into a war

They did...

>South literally attacked Fort Sumter after denying Anderson's conditional surrender request

They baited the South.

>literally threw a temper tantrum and split off because they knew if they couldn't literally own literal human beings as god damned property their state

It was about A LOT more than slaves, particularly States Rights.


>they get blown the fuck out by real america like the god damned traitor punks they are

Yeah, because the North took war-tier cheap shots.

>still fucking salty about it a century+ later

Can't really speak for this, because I am from the North, not the South.

A sad price to pay for victory

Even the North mainly thought "Good riddance" when the South left. Lincoln wanted them back because he realized that:
1. The United States could benefit enormously from exporting cotton to Britain
2. If Britain developed close relations with the South due to its cotton export then Britain would use the South to wrestle American manufacturing industry into submission.

The Civil War had very little to do with slavery and a lot to do with the Union's economic growth and competition with Britain.

It's basically the same reason the Mexican American War happened. The US has a long history of using false-flag attacks as a justification for going to war for the sake of protecting its economic interests and competing with economic powers.

this. call me a southern apologist/revisionist, but if the south had won, then the right to secession would be totally fine, and i suspect that we would have even eventually tried to either rejoin the union or form our own union, but with much stronger state's rights.

however, the south lost. therefore, we were wrong. hitler lost ww2, so he was wrong. that's one of the problems with modern drawn out "conflicts," there's no clear winner/loser.

also, even though i love the name "war of northern agression," confederate troops fired at the federal garrison at ft. sumter. the south fired the first shots; we "invaded" the north first.

They would have kept breeding more anyway.

Then they killed Lincoln, so the nigis were never sent back.

Sam Houston was right. Texas Here, the civil war was a mistake.

Slavery was definitely a big issue though, but I agree it wasn't the main issue. Abolitionism was very big at the time.

This.
As far as I remember, it was mostly about the different interests of north and south. Tariffs that greatly hindered the south, but benefitted the north, were set in place by the later. They even had different political "allies", mostly molded by their trading "strategies".
So yeah, slavery was not "the" issue, but one of them.

Do not speak for Texas ever agian. faggot

yea, it was a big issue for probably 50 years before that. The left at the time had been nudging towards it, but for all these people to say the south was fighting for slavery is bullshit and historically inaccurate.

it doesn't but that's not the point, you were looking for a reason

>betray your divinely-appointed king through most bloody rebellion, forever defying the Crown
>call others among your own ranks "traitors" when they likewise resist your oppressive tyranny

Oops meant to reply to OP

>physical power dictates truth

kys

The South was right

Stupid Southern Confederates.

All I had to do was make a simple bait thread to expose your stupidity.

FOR THE NORTH!

THE NORTH STANDS STRONG WHILE THE SOUTH WAS ALWAYS WRONG!!!

>still caring about skin color
>because baiting is totally a viable excuse for literally sneak attacking a nation you just separated from
>States Rights to own slaves, literally in their constitution that you couldn't put forth anything jepordizing the right to own people
>Article I Section 9(4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.
>"We have dissolved the late Union chiefly because of the negro quarrel." Robert Hardy Smith, An Address to the Citizens of Alabama on the Constitution and Laws of the Confederate States of America, 1861
>Georgian Democrat Alexander H. Stephens, who would become the Confederacy's vice president, also stated that the Confederate constitution was "decidedly better than" the American one, as it "put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution. African slavery as it exists amongst us; the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the 'rock upon which the old Union would split.' He was right."
>War
>Cheap Shots
>WAR
>CHEAP SHOTS
>implying literally flying the battle flag of a traitor nation that lost their war on your capital buildings directly under the American Flag isn't salt

I pretty much agree with all of your points lol.

I just wanted to get a good discussion going on this topic while playing the role of a butthurt Southern sympathizer.

Trew, considering all our rights come from a successful revolution. Would have been very different had we lost

Devil's Advocate is good, I just get reved up about the 'states rights' 'war of northern aggression' shit because it's blatantly re-writing what actually went down.

>race is just a social construct guys

If you care so much about them then take them in as refugees. We don't want them. When they all go to Cleveland to cry about muh equality, leave a trail of chicken grease to your house.

>the North to bait them into a war
They didn't. The Union had a fort, Lincoln said if the South didn't let supplies through he would start a war. Even if the states had the right to secede military bases are still federal property and thus wouldn't be owned by the newly independent states.

No. As a Southerner, fuck you.

You really want to know the real history of the Civil War?

It was about Capitalism. And niggers.

The North didn't want niggers. This is why they outlawed slavery in the same page as they outlawed freed blacks in their state constitutions. The North wanted a industrial, financial, educated, and white nation ruled by Capitalism and its technological progress. They wanted to expand this ideal west, from sea to shining sea, as all ideologies and cultures must expand or die. Blacks had no place in this because they came from lesser advanced cultures and would cause racism and friction in society.

Thus they opposed the Southerners, who wanted a "multicultural" tropical empire to span from California to Venezuela, with Whites at the top, Hispanics in the middle, and blacks at the bottom. The friction in society from this multiculturalism was to be settled with overwhelming violence and force at the hands of slave masters; a rejection of capitalism and the right to chose, for a new feudal hierarchy etched in blood across the North American continent. We see this neo-feudalism in effect in Southern antebellum laws, such as the mandatory conscription of lower class whites to hunt fugitive slaves by the state, so as to better firmly establish in law a hierarchy and show that the "serfs" must provide labor to service their "liege lords" (the slave owners). The Southern Aristocrat class were firmly against Capitalism, opting instead for a sort of state Mercantilism, and the use of serfs (sharecropping), slaves, and labor-in-kind rather than the use of cash, wage labor, and financial services which gave better class mobility to the masses. Additionally the Southerners fully rejected the factory system, believing that it degraded whites and that instead slavery of "lower races" would uplift the white race.

The differences between these two cultures, and both wanting to expand into the same territory, meant war was inevitable.

Everything is correct, except for your bit about the North freeing slaves. The Emancipation Proclamation was just political bullshit. It only "freed" the slaves in the south, which he had no jurisdiction over anyway. The northern slaves weren't freed until after the war.

If the South won the USA would be a paradise. All white, capitalist, no crime.

Fuck the Northern scum.

>t. Cletus
Texas is rightful Mexican clay anyways

>the South
>capitalist
>no crime
How dumb are you? From 1-10

No I don't think so.

>implying the civil war was about slaves and unity

Top fucking kek.

It was about the South not feeling represented in government. They were fed up with it and after Lincoln got elected it was the last straw. Most of the states were pulling for the other candidate.

I never said anything about the North freeing slaves. Only that slavery was illegal there, and that in some in states freed black settlers were also illegal. True emancipation only came with the passing of the 13th amendment, which in many ways was passed NOT to provide freedom to blacks on humanitarian grounds but because a free black population would economically cripple the South and uproot the feudal system, insuring they would never raise up again.

Or so my college history professor has told me.

>If the South won the USA would be a paradise. All white, capitalist, no crime.

lol

If we go by want the Southern Aristocrats had planned, then there would be even more blacks, more crime, and the United States would stretch from Washington state to Venezuela and include hundreds of millions of non-whites. America would basically be a (slightly whiter) copy of modern Brazil, with 80 states or more.

Oh and Southerners hated the fuck out of Capitalism btw. They loved them some Mercantilism, and all the regulation and graft it entails.

...

Of course. Don't forget you're talking to a bunch of edgy NEETs.
Historically, it has usually the populist 'leftist' labour movements that opposed mass immigration. See the old Australian Labour party before Whitlam screwed it all up.

/thread

That picture actually really sums up the north quiet nicely.

Thanks for that.

Where are you getting this information regarding the South wanting to expand and create a feudal society with a racial hierarchy and the North wanting racial heterogeneity?

read a book faggot

I am literally asking which book to read.

I thought the most important port was New York CIty? Why couldnt the North just establish good trading terms with the South?

Read any serious history book on the South. Most of the Southern generals were as skilled as they were from commanding various mercenary armies and private-looting operations around South America.

It always amuses me that Burgertards really believe the Confederacy was somehow better. If anything the South was far more interventionist, globalist and centralised than the North.

If you know anything about history or politics at all, no state in history has quietly let a secessionist movement go quietly on if it could help it.

Czechslovakia was an artificial construct imposed from outside and doesn't count and the USSR was broke and morally crushed.

We would still like to leave. But we don't want you northerners to invade and burn everything down, again.

Imagine if you were the president and half of your country's raw materials declared independence. You can stand on morals, but in reality it would have been a bigger setback for them than the civil war.

>I don't understand why the South seceding from the United States was such a HUGE fucking issue that required the North to bait them into a war.
>Why did the Federal gov't act to promote its own interests and increase it's own power at the expense of individual States

A gov't that cared more about power than abstract principles and people? Say it ain't so!

exactly

Lincoln didn't give two shifts about slavery user, he went to war over the economic implications of dividing.
The north had little agricultural capacity but fuckloads of industrial capacity and the South was the opposite.
The north fucked the south financially with the agriculture sit to jew more money, south said fuck off.
It hurt the pockets of the feds and bankers and corporations in the north so they went to war.
The south offered freedom to any slave who fought for his country, while the north wouldn't let a black man serve until nearly the very end of the war.
It's a pretty fucked situation really.

was pretty funny desu

Oh? Who are you to say a nation doesn't have the right to conquer?

That's not how this works user, that's bullshit war baiting.
The taxes of the southern states paid for those forts the same as the taxes of the Yankee north.
Cessession results in abolition of federal power and influence and holdings over the Confederate territorries.
Had the south won the war, those forts wouldn't have been given to the north, nor would they have been bought.

Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant.

the south was traditionalist and hierarchical and that's evolian

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Circle_(proposed_country)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantation_economy
amren.com/features/2011/12/racial-unity-american-republic/

I wish I could actually give you good, primary sources but I don't have my books on me at the moment and can't make a recommendation... and I'm also really fucked up on homemade moonshine right now and need to get to bed.

Based northest of leaves

The principles that the America was founded on died during Lincoln's presidency. He was a fucking tyrant that initiated a war on his fellow countrymen to massively expand federal power.

This pic is gay. If Booth hadn't killed Lincoln, we would have sent all the niggers to Liberia.

>Golden circle
>No Delaware in the picture

fucking plebs on kikepedia

Because they owed a bunch of money.
Because slavery.
Because if they let the shitty states leave then the good ones might go too.
Because if america is a bunch of unaffiliated states Britania or Emerging Russian power could invade and start taking chunks out of america.
Because having a civil war before the invention of automatic guns, airplanes, and mega-bombs would cost a lot fewer lives.

And finally without the civil war and federal government we'd be a third world shithole like south America.

I'm pretty sure the moment they left the union it was an act of treason and the union isnt a cuck so they didnt take the south's shit. Maybe if you were president you'd let it slide ya know cause you're a cuck and all

The South is full of niggers. When we brought your stupid ass back into the Union tons of them moved north.

Should've let the South leave, and funded blacks to form New Afrika in the South.

Lol read a book instead of sucking ur inbred uncles dick and reading his cumstained tealeaves.

Real southerners dont worship losers and quitters who couldnt even hold the md line from a bunch applejacked yankees.

Slavery was the only reason.

Grow up.

Fuck texas. Last to fight and first to leave, your betrayal of the south made the world the shithole it is today.

GB2 mexico you cowfucking western piece of shit.

Real southerners dont make up fairy tails to compensate for their lack of a penis. Eat shit you turncoat traitor.

Cuck the Federal Government is why the U.S is in debt.

How dense you can be? they didn't have a choice.

>oh yeah lets lose 50% of our GDP just be polite you know.

There are none because its all hillbilly campfire pity party revisionist dogshit.

It was all slavery.

That's how liberals think shit should go down

wtf I hate Dixie now
Oh well. I still love the flag and statues for the liberal butthurt they create

>The Founding Fathers would have supported their right to secede from a nation they considered oppressive and tyrannical.
I mean, except for the whole "Washington crushing the Whiskey Rebellion" thing, but sure, if that's what you want to believe.
oh wait
a mighty jej

Very interesting information, I have a new respect for the Confederacy now. This information also seems to insinuate that they would have sided with the axis powers in WWII. I wonder what that world would have looked like.

No one gives a shit, its magical paper money that means nothing.

Slavery is bad for the slaves and the owners. See how slavery always backfires whether its egypt, roman or mongol empire, slavery always backfires.

Well with the proper slave collar technology these issues could be avoided

>slavery always backfires

user, its been the worldwide norm for thousands of years. The hell are you going on about?

suuuuuuurrreeee buddy

Suuuureee even tho GDP is bad for the economy if you consider jobs.

Because it was an illegal action

They had every right to secede, and we had every right to go in there, and take back our land.

It's the same logic as to why we don't owe Native American tribes shit. They had every right to live on that land, and we had every right to try and take it from them. They couldn't defend it, so now it's ours.

THIS user IS GONNA MAGA THIS THREAD. the southern port was more important for trade and goods. as well as the fact that pre 1860 til present was where most materials and farm products were produced.

if your forming a country, you aint gonna let half leave and take the most prominent EASY TO REACH port go away. the west and easter africa which could be reached much easier off the gulf stream than traveling across the norhern much farther reach of the atlantic..

history? geography.. come on anons.. some of the shit i read in this thread was disturbing.

this war had zero to do with slavery, and all to do with power, income and land as welll as their view on the world at this time. go read older college level history books from pre 1900.. your history is distorted senpai.

FACT. 90 PERCENT OF ALL SLAVES DURING THIS TIME PERIOD, WENT TO SOUTH AMERICA.
FACT. THEY WERE PRISONERS OF WAR.
THEY WEREN'T FREE PEOPLE.
THEY WERE SOLD BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE.
TO ANYONE.

>tfw we lost our war of independence and now the north just cucks us constantly

life as a Dixie is suffering ;-;

Except they are allowed to govern themselves on their reservations. We couldn't follow through with their genocide because Jews.

I'm pretty sure the south attacked first

Fort Sumter was false flag, Beauregard did nothing wrong.

The only thing left to do is praise Hitler and wait until they outlaw our last avenue of freedom

>South attacks the north
>Try to spin it as "The War of Northern Aggression"

Why does the south need to keep re-learning the lessons the should have learned 150 years ago