Give Men Access to Abortion Because Equality

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WHAT PRO-CHOICE IS

Scenario 1
-------------------------------------
derpina: i'm pregnant

derp: i want babby from you
derpina: i don't want babby from you

result: babby is kill
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Scenario 2
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derpina: i'm pregnant

derpina: i want babby from you
derp: i don't want babby from you

result: babby is live
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WHAT PRO-CHOICE SHOULD BE

Scenario 1
-------------------------------------
derpina: i'm pregnant

derp: i want babby from you
derpina: i don't want babby from you

result: babby is kill
-------------------------------------

Scenario 2
-------------------------------------
derpina: i'm pregnant

derpina: i want babby from you
derp: i don't want babby from you

result: babby is kill
-------------------------------------
=====================================

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lmgtfy.com/?q=paternity test
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I don't think guys should be able to decide whether she has an abortion or not, but they should be able to get a financial abortion.

I do. Because even though the child is in her body, it is their child, not only her child. If the mother has the right to abort it, so should the father.

What difference does it make if he doesn't have to take care of it anyways?

He doesn't get to control her. It's always about control with these faggots. They can't comprehend that one sex requires a gestation period in order to reproduce while one doesn't, and isn't biologically wired to give a shit about the child.

Because even though you don't have to take care of it. I think the fact that it is your child, will always leave you with a sense of responsibility. If you know that the mother is going to raise the child in a way you don't agree with, for example.

>implying fathers don't give a shit about their offspring

nice.

>Isn't biologically wired to give a shit about the child
Bullshit

It's not about controlling her, it's about equal rights when it comes to controlling your own reproduction. There's nothing wrong with that.

>>Isn't biologically wired to give a shit about the child

Mothers lose their "maternal instincts" around the time the child is 4 or 5. Men have none. Don't fall for the parental instincts meme.

Yeah right, that's why Men are the ones who fight to illegalise abortions and women kill their child more often.

Fuck off, their is a reason why single fathers raise better children than single mothers.

*there is

This is absolutely absurd... I know fathers who worry about their children's performance in school way more than the mothers for example.

How would they know whose child it is before it's born if the woman has had sex with multiple men? They could end up aborting someone else's kid.

>that's why Men are the ones who fight to illegalise abortions and women kill their child more often.

No, it's because they want to control women. Most of society revolves around controlling women, which is why they like to do stupid shit.
> their is a reason why single fathers raise better children than single mothers.
The mother has to be a serious fuck-up to lose custody to the father, so that there are very few times where this is not the case.
That has nothing to do with instincts, it's sociological. You like to see your child succeed because it reflects on your success in society. It's sick how people live vicariously through their kids accomplishments, just like it's sick for them to project their own shortcomings onto their kid's failures.

A paternity test? But yeah, if the father cannot be identified then I would say he cannot appeal to his rights and the mother gets to decide.

>No, it's because they want to control women.

I think you're paranoid.

Can they do the tests before birth?

Fathers may not be "hardwired" (pop sci thinking anyway) but people are not reducible to their neural functioning (there are reasons why philosophy and linguistics are also neuro sciences) most abortions are related to poverty and pro life movements would be a lot more successful if they addressed the underlying issue

>isn't biologically wired to give a shit about the child.
maybe niggers, but not normal decent men

EQUAL RIGHTS NOW

>I think you're paranoid.

I think you're fucked up for thinking a dude shouldn't be satisfied with the ability to walk away-scot free from a pregnancy they had just as much control over as the other party. It's really vile, seriously.

lmgtfy.com/?q=paternity test

Yeah, a few weeks after conception.

Men shouldn't be able to force a woman to abort her child you complete fucking retard

But they should be able to absolve themselves of financial responsibility for it.

>derp
>derpina

jesus christ

Dads are better parents

Great, just some narcissistic roastie who think only women have morals.

You can't give people the power to force medical procedures they don't want. It's not happening and it's a stupid idea. The only way this could work is if artificial wombs become a thing. But if we have artificial wombs there isn't much justification to abort.

Father's absolutely should have legal surrender to all rights and obligations though.

Screw that! The fact that women have more control over their own reproduction than men is sending a message to fathers everywhere that fatherhood is less important than motherhood. That's sexist and backwards.

>only women have morals.

Who said that anywhere ITT?

Why don't feminists care about the majority of women who feel compelled to abort vis a vis poverty? Because feminism is dominated by white privileged women and 3/4 of abortions are performed on women of color

>because equality
Is akin to
>Because it's 2016

Nobody should be given access to abortion because abortion is evil

>Derp, derpina
>>>/Reddit/

>Fatherhood is less important than motherhood.

That's not what it means at all. It's just that pregnancy doesn't physically affect the man. Abortions aren't 100% safe and no one should be forced to undergo a medical procedure against their will.

You literally just said dads only care about their children's performance and well being as a vicarious extension of their own.

What about the person who is aborted you psycho hypocrite?!

Abortion is not evil, it kills millions of nigger babies.

So women claim ownership of the baby because it's "part of their body" and don't want their male partner having a choice in the matter?

Seems fucked!

>It's just that pregnancy doesn't physically affect the man.
But having the child does, regardless of how many legal obligations you free him from.

>It's sick how people live vicariously through their kids

That's what I said. In reference to parents, not fathers. Learn to read.

Justifies infanticide with racism

This is why stormfaggots will never be conservatives

Killing any baby is evil

This thread isn't even about pro-life. It's about the father's right to force an abortion on the mother. No one here is suggesting the life of a fetus is more important than that of the people who are expected to raise them.

The mentally retarded and insane are both sterilized and lobotomized on a very regular basis. What the fuck are you on about?

>But having the child does
>Physically affect him

No it doesn't.

>Abortions aren't 100% safe and no one should be forced to undergo a medical procedure against their will.
Not even if this freedom undermines equal rights?

I'm fairly sure they don't do that anymore.

Let me rephrase. You can't force medical procedures on mentally competent people against their will.

Ok, yeah I read over the physical bit... but it affects him that's the point.

Nope, you're lying

Here's what you said
First
"isn't biologically wired to give a shit about the child"
Then
"You like to see your child succeed because it reflects on your success in society"
When
Said he knew fathers that cared more about their child performances.
So either you're saying good parents wont necessarily care about their child success, or your saying father only care because of their social status.

Go fuck yourself.

Niggers like you have no maternal instincts, that is true.

The life of a fetus is equally as important as the parents'
This is a human rights issue but idiots discount the developing life because it is vulnerable and also because most people are to dense to see through the being/becoming paradox

t. existentialist Marxist who's also pro life

More like why you should go the fuck back to redit

>but it affects him that's the point.

That's entirely subjective, there are enough men in this world who are perfectly okay with being deadbeat dads of a dozen kids for me to think you're full of shit and pandering to feels. Crocodile tears. Disgusting.

Those are niggers. Deadbeat dads among other races are relatively rare and socially ostracized.

Bullshit, it would affect me I can tell you that.

Racists like you are pathetic you are controlled by emotions you are the same as the jihadists get fucked

Why would I? I know too much. This entire abortion debate is a disgusting spectacle, why would you expect anyone to want to raise kids in this fucked up society where men are more worried about having full control over anything they can viably label as their property than fixing the underlying issue of poverty and welfare culture?

Well either you believe there's an intrinsic value to human life or you don't. That's what it comes down to. A fetus is undoubtedly human life. Any talk of "person-hood" is just arbitrary, social constructs people use to justify killing human life.

That's why even if we had artificial wombs this argument would continue.

You are right in that I do have some pretty strong emotions, but the facts speak for themselves.

Men don't really believe they should be able to force abortion on a woman...some petulent children might think so

It was an entirely separate point I was making, from the one where I said men aren't biologically wired to have parental instincts. Pull your head out of your ass, and learn to read, instead of reshaping these events in your head to suit your narrative.

So, there are so many deadbeat fathers that men don't deserve equal control over their own reproduction?

>derp
>derpina

No, women destroyed the family. They gave more importance to gibs and "women power huuuuuurrr" then actually taking care of their kids. That's why so many women use child support money to by themselves shit instead of using it for the child, and that's why they abuse/ kill their kids.
I would say your delusional for saying that the reason things are this fucked is because of men wanting to control things (when 80% of them are cucked as hell), but honestly it's more likely that you're just evil.

Person hood is the basis of rights and you can espouse a nihilistic deconstructive stance all you want but the fact is that you depend on these "social constructs" for protection..if you would deny that a fetus should be afforded the same protection it can only be from base selfishness and not a critique of rights as such (since you are materially undermining such a position by hypocritically availing your self of what you claim are baseless falsehoods)

Hey, here's one that does. Feel free to argue with me, that's why I'm here.

No, you're just backpedaling now that everyone here realized just how batshit insane you were.

Facts cannot speak for themselves
"The truth is always simple
Is this not doubly a lie?"
-nietzsche

Abortions should even be allowed in the first place. Neither the mother not the father should have the right to kill a third innocent party.
They accepted the consequences when they agreed to have sex with eachother.

But you're right that currently it is "unfair" that the mother can decide to have an abortion when the father cannot. The reason why this is the case is because it is also "unfair" that the mother has to carry around the child in her womb for 9 month.

as long as the mother is the one who will have to sacrifice her body, she'll be the one who holds the power

Okay well my question to you is why don't you wish for all murders to be legal? Certainly we should not be subjected to the inconveniences of other people?

Actually the entire basis of our rights to life is based on the premise of an intrinsic value to human life. Personhood is a relatively new concept along with universal "human rights." The problem with concepts like personhood is that this is how we end up disqualifying certain kinds of people from "personhood" and end up with genocide and slavery, as a few examples.

This is why these arguments make no appearance in Roe v Wade. They justified it under a weak legal argument about the right to privacy - because the right to life argument would have inevitably lead to another result.

>Men only want control.

I'm only arguing that men deserve to have more control over their own reproduction. Control your paranoia.

Ugh I argued with you but I didn't need to I'm sorry this issue makes me rage

Eh? Can you go step by step there because I've lost you.

ELI5 pls

And leave your children for Society to pay for? No, fuck you. Don't knock the bitch up if you don't want to give her a pension.

If you do not want to have a child with someone, do not have unprotected sex.

How about wear a fucking condom or better yet don't go around fucking girls you aren't ready to impregnate?

People always say that men should be more responsible. But in an egalitarian society both men and women should be held equally accountable. So either you say that to women too, or don't say it at all.

I see your point I didn't at first but there is an inherent weakness to person hood. Human life must carry intrinsic value when it does not society actually collapses

i never understood why conservatives were against abortion. Its almost always niggers and we need less of them anyways. 5-6 abotrions later(I hope but unconfirmed ) and we dont have to pay for anymore thanks to uterine damage.

Its fucking basic economics. Conservicunts are confirmed retard on this point.

If a women keeps a child it's ultimately her who has to keep the stupid baby if you just leave her. Oh boo hoo you have to pay a little money but that's just stupid tax.

This is literally what happens OP, stop being a moralfag.

Why should abortion be legal and murder illegal ?

kill yourself

If babies were delivered by the stork thinks would be different, but it grows inside of the woman's body for 9 fucking months, that's a god damn while.

You know how dehumanizing it is to say "You don't have control over your own body, we're going to kill this thing growing inside of you against your will". Do you realize how that would feel? It would be bogus. The sane thing to do is to let the woman decide what to do.

Right, so I've already explained my position on that argument. Pls read up.

No, the women pay for them herself, or abort, the later being the more probable outcome.
Ideally I don't disagree fellow leaf, but I was responding to OP's suggestion.
Neither abortion of abortion should be legal (except in special cases).

Ok, here's the thing. My point is EQUAL RIGHTS. Either both men and women have access to abortion, or neither should. Equal rights, equal control over your own reproduction. I'm not going into the pro-life pro-choice debate. All I'm saying is the way pro-choice exists now, is unjust.

*woman
*neither abortion or financial abortion

If the man doesn't want to have a baby, he should be able to sign off on his parental rights in the timeframe an abortion is possible and legal. If the woman wants to keep the baby, that's okay, but no child support

Yeah it's the typical "b-but white men have issues too boohoo" garbage. Men and women are biologically different and that's why women get to decide on abortions. Until you grow ovaries you'll have to suck it up.

But the fetus has equal rights too and its not his fault his parents are murderers

Because it's a moral (for them a moral/religious) position. Considering the vast majority are blacks, and the woman who started planned parenthood was a huge racist, I think this was the intended result though.

Do you think the development of artificial wombs will end this argument?

Suppose we could transfer a fetus out of a woman and into an artificial womb. Suppose this procedure was safer than both abortion and natural childbirth. Do you think this would be considered an acceptable alternative to abortion? I very much doubt it.

The way to give you equal rights is to give you legal paternal surrender. The law can't change the fact that your reproductive system works differently to that of a woman.

I support legal abortion too, and even I think you are crazy, or just evil

>killing children

Why are liberals so convinced that killing children is a good idea?

It isn't just liberals anymore the right is losing its sense of values as well hence OP and the people who are like hurr durr it kills niggers

your "right to reproduce" means shit when you're not going to carry a baby inside you for 9 months

if you decide not to abort, consequences and obligations are notoriously harsher on the woman - for almost a year. you're not on equal footing AT ALL, so it makes sense she would have the last word on the matter

Abortion should be illegal except in extreme cases like severe deformities, or rape.

Obviously the man cant force the women to kill or carry the baby.

What he should be able to do is 'abort' his legal responsibilities, mainly alimony. Ask yourself what happens then: Not one stupid man gets punished for fucking a slut and impreganting her but ALL men then have to feed the bastard and his mother. I thought we're against marxism.

Not if you slash single mother welfare. People would be a lot more responsible if there were no safety nets like that left.