Just had this convo on omegle and didn't know what to say to this thing...

Just had this convo on omegle and didn't know what to say to this thing. Is Hillary's plan for more immigrants and a path to citizenship really that bad? This site shows there's really not that much of an effect.

depts.ttu.edu/freemarketinstitute/research/immigration_papers/TheEconomicEffectsofInternationalLaborMobility.pdf

Other urls found in this thread:

jstor.org/stable/1129689?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
livescience.com/47288-twin-study-importance-of-genetics.html
rense.com/general85/prot.htm
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

>talking about jobs
Talk about allahu akbar instead

>Sup Forums tries to argue
>gets btfo
everytime

I have never really been good at arguing. That guy started it not me.

american unemployment doesnt increase because the foreigners dont get jobs, they just rape kill and murder while sucking away whites' money through barack onigger

Immigration != Illegal-Immigration

Oh shit yeah you're right I totally forgot that they are the ones not getting jobs. I let this guy sidetrack me into talking about unemployment rather than what I was originally talking about, how the working class is suffering to pay for these illegals.

Hillary would make the immigration legal though.

the changes occur slowly after illegal immigrants enter the country, but they are definitely there.

That's been the opposite of my experience on Sup Forums. Omega threads are usually full of Sup Forums btfo out of everyone else. Also filled with memers spouting stupid shit, but the debaters are usually good at it.

OP, I'm disappointed.

I never wanted to start a debate. I'm not good at debating at all. How do I get good?

This. The point is, it's fucking illegal. Go through the proper channels, or don't come here at all.

And I guarantee that crimes rates have gone up in counties that were predominantly white 25 years ago, that are now predominantly hispanic.

The problem is that you are giving away your children's future.

Stock up on statistics, senpai. Win by being on the right side. Research your positions before solidifying them as your own.

If Sup Forums did this it would not exist.

And what typically Sup Forums stances are incorrect?

First, you need to understand how to think logically. You also need to practice. Know what you're debating. If you don't care for logical reasons to support what you want done, find logical arguments that have already been made. Anticipate your opponents response. Often times there is the same shitty argument made by many different people for the one thing they all support. Think about all the different ways they could argue for their idea and all the ways you can respond to it. Think about the subject from many different angles. A political policy could have many different effects for many different things. Focus on what makes your ideas look better.

I have gotten by with not knowing my subject that well, but pretty much got luck and won with common sense, but you can't always do that. If you don't know shit, you don't know shit, unless your opponent knows even less than you do.

This is interesting. What do you think this happens?

Does the data take in to consideration that people had to go back to school since their jobs are no longer available and now are not counted as being unemployed as they take on debt? I'm not clicking the link because I don't care enough just my first thought on seeing it.

>jews control the world.
>there is a jewish conspiracy.
>women should not vote and should stay at home
>nigger IQ is genetic and has nothing to do with education or socio economic status because of that one danish video and stufy.
>the halacaust didnt happen.

Just to name a few.

People aren't losing jobs the moment a new immigrant enters the country. It's takes time.

Why*
Well there's my problem I'm not good at thinking logically I can just kinda understand when someone is right and someone is wrong on something.

>*.edu source.

How about some sources on crime rates as they correlate to illegal immigrants.

So people do lose jobs because of immigrants? That guy pretty much convinced me otherwise with my link in the original post. Otherwise why do you think our unemployment rate goes down when the illegal immigrant population decreases?

Was this peer reviewed?
There is a problem in science that people sometimes force statistics to meet wanted expectations to get published, and then get funding for their next studies. Especially in statistics and psychology. I'm not saying that it's necessarily the case with this study, but I just want to know that is this one of those "cancer could be cured with bananas" clickbait "studies" where someone assumed correlation implies causation.

the unemployment rate is a funny number because there are numerous ways to not be counted in it. One such method is just straight giving up.

Look at Labor Force Participation rate rather than unemployment

And remember that immigration is not just a one-generation phenomenon

Does this include illegal immigration?

A FUCKING OY VEY

Nope but I guess illegal immigration is still immigration regardless right?

I doubt it would take illegal immigration in because nobody actually knows how many come over.

Not looking at your source but from what you said

Think about it. The unemployment rate, lets say it's 6% and the illegal immigration population is 60. Assume many of them are working under the table. Now 10 of those immigrants are deported. Their employers now need new employees. There's not enough unemployed illegals form them to hire so they hire unemployed citizen. Now the Unemployment rate goes down .5% or however much it would. So that source really shows that they do take jobs.

Also remember that you can pick at the reliability of the unemployment measurement itself if you really had to.

The IQ one is genetic though.

>post some pol jpg

Like I wrote, If pol actually researched their position they would never be pol but its good we have a containment board for morons.

You named basically all of the bait and meme arguments that get thrown around.

However;
>Out of all religions, Jews earn the most. Nearly 50% earn more than $100,000/year compared to 20% of all other Americans. If you classify 'ruling the world' as wealth, then yes, they make up a large portion of wealthy Americans.
>Almost all empires that were once great experience decline when they introduce 'progressivism', such as giving women equal rights or say in government, becoming consumers rather than innovators, and letting sexuality run rampant. There are a lot of similarities between the current state of the world's powers, and say, the Roman empire.
>IQ is extremely influenced by genetics.
>More memes and bait, but I'm sure there a lot of mathematical logistics of the Holocaust that don't add up. Not saying it was some big cover-up, but it probably wasn't ZOMG SIX GORILLION

Reminder that this is a CTR shill thread, literally paid for by the Clinton campaign.

Fucking google "is IQ genetic" you absolute tard.

I read the link.
The flaw in his argument is that in later pages it also mentions studies by Borjas and some others one which show thaf immigrant DO lower wages.
There is a debate between perfect n imperfect substitutes for the job, which causes conflict, but seeing as how educated migrants usually do speak good english, I'd say they are perfect substitutes which means Borjas's stats are reasonable.
So, tell this moron on omegle to reas his own source.

Also this does not mention that more competition causes natives to need to study more.
Also does not mention illegals.

Motherfucker I just Googled "Race and IQ" and went to images. The word "ignorance" has the same roots as the word "ignore" for a reason.

Starting to think that the stormfags are right. What a (coincidence) that the CRF shill is from our "greatest ally".

Oh you poor dense Sup Forumsster.
I know this board lowers your standards of rading comprehension and critical thinking so ill spell it out for you.
Its not enough to show gentics plays a big part in IQ, you have to show that blacks as a group are genetically predisposed to have a substantially lower IQ.

>another retard

well the peak looks to be around 2008 AKA when the global economy crashed so obviously there was higher unemployment due to a shrinking economy.these thing have more than 1 factor

>Inb4 some right wing twat say immigrants cause 08' crash

Alright Im pretty sure this is bait now, but fuck it. I'll bite.
How about my previous source? If you want to try and explain that away as being caused by poverty or culture I can find more sources for you that adjust for those factors.

Let me be more precise before the retards jump me.
You have to show that blacks as a group are genetically predisposed to have substantially lower IQ.

>dense
Yet you continue to ignore science and statistics when it benefits yourself?

If you were as intelligent as you thought, it would be pretty easy to make the connection between the fact that IQ is shown to be genetic, and the graph posted earlier (which is a 'pol graph' according to you, even though every single graph on Google images shows the exact same trend) showing the entire group of blacks score lower than the entire group of whites.

We already did. What more do you want than a fucking chart? Are you retarded?

>h-he started it

>Summer teenager

Propaganda images aren't reliable sources, retard.

I dont ignore scinece and statistics. I simply know that there are different studies that show different results and each study has to be scrutinized because it might show a result but fail to point at the correct cause.

One thing I will definitely not do with such a complex issue is take the position that blacks are genetically inferior as the default one because im obviously biased to prefer it.

Person is a fucking idiot. Its not about employment.

Its about wages have been stagnant ever since mexicans have been flooding the usa

and of course the same is true of "ashkenazi genetics".

Thanks for reminding me how fun omegle questions are, OP

BTW which one of you guys is asking about niggers and shit

No, you are clearly biased to prefer all races are equal in all fields at all costs, though.

The general consensus of basically ever IQ study done in every setting shows that regardless of socioeconomic conditions, blacks are on average the least intelligent race, whites are intermediate, and asians score the highest.

That's because of monetarism and the abolition of the gold standard, not mexicans

certainly unrestrained immigration has benefited monied interests at the expense of working Americans.
But much of your graph is due to the Johnson's Great Society reducing incentives to work and Nixon taking us off the gold standard.

They're wrong.

Immigrants are not the only people taking jobs
Thats what he doesn't understand
It's actually incredibly difficult to immigrate to America
You need to have real skills

That's what these studies miss all the time
Immigrant is used a scape goat word which includes but is not limited to illegals, visa workers, refugees, and even just plain old outsourcing
I know for a fact the first two lead to wage stagnation and job loss for natives (just ask a person in the tech field their thoughts on h1b visas)

Regarding the argument:

Background Source: jstor.org/stable/1129689?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Concept: livescience.com/47288-twin-study-importance-of-genetics.html
>"When the twins were finally reunited at the age of 39 in 1979, they discovered they both suffered from tension headaches, were prone to nail biting, smoked Salem cigarettes, drove the same type of car and even vacationed at the same beach in Florida. The culprit for the odd similarities? Genes. Genes can help explain why someone is gay or straight, religious or not, brainy or not, and even whether they're likely to develop gum disease, one psychologist explains."

>"Another study, commissioned by the editor of the journal Science, looked at genetics and IQ. The Minnesota researchers found that about 70 percent of IQ variation across the twin population was due to genetic differences among people, and 30 percent was due to environmental differences. The finding received both praise and criticism, but an updated study in 2009 containing new sets of twins found a similar correlation between genetics and IQ."

Baseline IQ over a large population there are varying differences along with genetic dispositions to personality characteristics. The Minnesota studies adopted that at least 70% of IQ is genetic while the other 30% is nurture. This 30% nurture comes from studies regarding IQ increase from education among other stimuli.

He did I went to Omegle for laughs, not politics.

First of all socio economic differences definatley do influence iq scores. Second of all stereotypes influence IQ scores by influencing habits and thinking patterns.
Meaning a black person in a black culture in the US, that is exposed to stereotypes of blacks might not, from a certain age, try to develop certain thinking skills or might even avoid certain thinking patterns because the streotypes of the group of which he is a part oppose this way of thinking.
i.e school is associated with whites so a black person will not try to study.
nutrition and health are another matter as well.
Having certain deficiencies, eating bad food can greatly effect IQ.
Meaning that you can be healthy and not be starving or anything but your IQ will be lower.
You pretending its solved and clear is simply a result of your own desire to deflect negative behavior and characteristics to another group so you can exhault yourself over it.

We might very well come to the conclusion that black people have a lower IQ. Then the problem remains that by popularizing this "truth" the effect will be of even lower scores and lower effort by people in the black community.

>using empirical method in economics
join the austrian masterrace user

>there isn't a jewish conspiracy.

The theory basically goes that a bunch of super rich/powerful people want to fulfill certain teachings in the Torah. Through this a manuscript called the Protocols of Zion was released to the public via an unknown source. The Protocols of Zion mimic the future of the release (1903) which is summarized here:

>rense.com/general85/prot.htm

List:
>* Place our agents and helpers everywhere
* Take control of the media and use it in propaganda for our plans
* Start fights between different races, classes and religions
* Use bribery, threats and blackmail to get our way
* Use Freemasonic Lodges to attract potential public officials
* Appeal to successful people's egos
* Appoint puppet leaders who can be controlled by blackmail
* Replace royal rule with socialist rule, then communism, then despotism
* Abolish all rights and freedoms, except the right of force by us
* Sacrifice people (including Jews sometimes) when necessary
* Eliminate religion; replace it with science and materialism
* Control the education system to spread deception and destroy intellect
* Rewrite history to our benefit
* Create entertaining distractions
* Corrupt minds with filth and perversion
* Encourage people to spy on one another
* Keep the masses in poverty and perpetual labor
* Take possession of all wealth, property and (especially) gold
* Use gold to manipulate the markets, cause depressions etc.
* Introduce a progressive tax on wealth
* Replace sound investment with speculation
* Make long-term interest-bearing loans to governments
* Give bad advice to governments and everyone else

I am very well aware of the protocols of the elders of zion.

Your listings do affect IQ. However, the argument goes into being that an equivalent of 70% if genetic while 30% is nurture. Why you people like Chris Langan with 200 IQ (innaccurate past 160 IQ mind you) while his father served as an intelligence officer with 120-150 IQ.

My stream of consciousness posts make me realize how many words I skip subconsciously. *Why you have

and

*is genetic

kek

I'm sure you are, Mr. Goldstein

The issue isn't that jobs are getting lost.

The issue is that jobs are getting devalued.

I wont even mention the fact that asking the question of whether "blacks" have a lower iq as a group is racist. Before you go crazy let me explain what i mean.
It is the fact you choose to look at blacks as a specific group.
If you take all these americans who happen to have a black skin and change them to look like whites would you even group them and test their IQ as a group?
You can simply view them as not a separate group but as a part of American society in which case it is irrelevant if they have a lower iq much like the section of whites who have a low IQ are of no particular interest.

Now of course blacks identify as a group themselves but it is part of a dynamic between whites and blacks that defines both groups.
Ideally we would want to fight against such a thing if the goal is to create a more wholesome American citizenry.
In any case, the fight should be against the self destructive parts of black culture and against negative cultural stereotypes.

>If you take all these americans who happen to have a black skin and change them to look like whites would you even group them and test their IQ as a group?

Race is looked at regarding IQ due to vast differences in genetics. Whites and Asians have DNA from the neanderthals which has an average of 1600cm^3 cranial capacity which is higher than humanity's current average (1300-1400cm^3). As to what certain genetics give heightened influence or not is up in the air. However, noticeable differences in the brain are found among different ethnicities resulted from different locations. The same can be applied to families and their distant cousins. Genetics has been a big factor in European mostly among other whites.

>In any case, the fight should be against the self destructive parts of black culture and against negative cultural stereotypes.

True. Regarding genetics however, being set in reality society can make decisions to result in a higher IQ, and thus more prosperous, society.

this.

But imagine of all the scientists were to say that blacks have lower IQs and it was all over the news...
Can you imagine the impact on american society?
It would be better to focus on research of what effects IQ and how to remove the things that do not allow people to develop their potential to its max.
As we can see on Sup Forums IQ studies on different groups are a great weapon for populists and racist propaganda.

>Can you imagine the impact on american society?

Low IQ people would be ostracized period. They would be looked at as less desirable and reproduce less. Egging on African Americans via racists is something that already happens regarding their IQ. There are studies out there and "active race haters" who use them. Would there be more tensions? Yes that is plausible.

>It would be better to focus on research of what effects IQ and how to remove the things that do not allow people to develop their potential to its max.

Max potential comes from avoiding heavy metals, drugs, malnutrition, lack of exercise and a lack of factors to delve into inactive thinking. The largest factor however is genetic.

One level of thinking there is a backlash of cognitive dissonance in minority groups and fuel for segregation. Second level of thinking is realizing the overall result from generations down the road leads to a more advanced society from focusing on genetics for breeding instead of feelings with or without being under the influence (via propaganda and/or drugs).

Furthering on this: Humans have a great capacity to weed out weakness in groups. This example can be found of IQ averages of 3+ people talking among each other have an average of ~130 IQ compared to the average of 100 individually. This is due to as a macro aspect they delve through problems on a more objective level and neural pathings rather than a single mind with innate bias. Feelings and notions that humans institutionally have whether it is miscegenation, outside cultures, and being afraid of the unknown. We have those characteristics due to evolution grasping on to successful characteristics and personality traits. This is also why whites tend to be more successful overall with business as personality was a huge factor in mate selection around Europe with intelligence being a close second. Without this ostracization of individuals with terrible personalities and intelligence in Europe; current society would be drastically less advanced government structures, philosophy and technology.

In opposition with African American and Hispanic cultures in the USA qualities which are pushed are animalistic such as aggressiveness, non-intelligence, and physical characteristics. This is the direct opposite of what has led to advancement in society. Ostracizing these individuals may be crude, but you need to realize that these ethnic groups would start to become more like the European model and thus have higher intelligence and personality required for advanced society; to an extent which furthers society as a whole including minorities.

Nigga you're on Sup Forums. Fucking chill.

It's the god damn votes you god damn mongoloids. Dumb fucking beaners vote for god damn Democrats and their god damn socialism. I don't care though. This country is going to burn sooner or later. Might as well light it up now.

>democrats
>socialists

They're left of center capitalists at worst.

Not from where I'm standing.

...