I’d like all of you lovable faggots to please explain to me why you all seem to have such a hard-on for atheism.
The most glaring issue I have here is that an atheist is not only accepting “Does God/gods/Bog exist?” as a legitimate question, but providing and adhering to a response.
Atheism is a belief/system of beliefs, the same as theism.
So are you all simply anti-religion autists or do you simply deny any distinction between knowledge and belief? Or something else? Help me out here.
Inb4 “weak/strong atheism” *splurgh*. Atheists don’t get to rope agnostics into their little circlejerk because by definition an agnostic carries no belief whatsoever.
>Atheism is a belief/system of beliefs, the same as theism.
The problem with your whole argument is that people who actually call them serlves atheists dont define it the same way you do, we define it like this.
A (without) + theism (belief in a god) = without belief in a god. An atheist is one who does not believe in the existence of a god(s). Atheism is not even a category. It is the exclusion of a single category, theism. Meaning that someone who is not a theist, is an atheist. The only way to exclude yourself from atheism, is to believe in a god.
Check out the strawman fallacy.
Connor Miller
>Atheism is a belief/system of beliefs, the same as theism.
This is false. It literally is a Type I error.
Non-belief means "no belief" if English is not your first language
The same kind of gullible idiots who are so stupid they fall for the logical fallacies are unironically the same idiots who easily fall for the obvious falsity of religion.
Aaron Gomez
ITT: Babby learns the difference between knowledge and belief.
Two posts and I already see where the problem is. Thanks, /pol!
Justin Hall
please do share You think agnostic and atheist are mutually exclusive, or are you confused about something else?
Daniel Murphy
Oh i see the problem now
>by definition an agnostic carries no belief whatsoever. actually by definion an atheist carries no belief, a theist does. saying you are an agnostic says NOTHING about your beliefs, it pretty much only says you accept the fact that you cant know something with 100% certainty, which is irrelevant because every sane person is an agnostic.
Another question i have, do you think not believing claim Y is the same as believing claim Y is false?
Jace Jackson
I too am unsure of what your problem is supposed to be? Agnosticism thinks it's a legitimate question too, they just think the answer is un-knowable because of human epistemological limitations. Atheists just reject that assumption, and it does seem obviously false to me. That's the fundamental divide between the two, it isn't really a matter of principle.
Michael Murphy
Read up on gnosticism and agnositicism you philistine
Samuel Green
>You think agnostic and atheist are mutually exclusive, or are you confused about something else?
Theist and Atheist are binary terms. An atheist does not believe in any god/gods. A theist believes in god/gods. Agnostic is a gradient of theism because it believes in god/gods.
>Agnostic is a gradient of theism because it believes in god/gods.
dude, you gotta go look up agnosticism, it doesnt necessarily have anything to do with god/gods and it certainly has nothing to do about belief in such things.
Luke Morales
>actually by definion an atheist carries no belief, a theist does. An atheist believes that there is no gods/God/Bog. This is a claim unsubstantiated by knowledge.
>not believing claim Y >Y is false These are entirely different statements.
Dominic Howard
>dude, you gotta go look up agnosticism, I did. It puzzles me that there would be any room for doubt.
Jaxson Green
>Agnosticism thinks it's a legitimate question too Usually untrue. This is a bad assumption.
>they just think the answer is un-knowable because of human epistemological limitations. The answer is un-knownable due to the definition of what can quantified as "knowledge."
Liam Fisher
>An atheist believes that there is no gods/God/Bog
This is where you are wrong, you are free to use the word in that way, but when talking to actual atheists its a strawman argument, you are putting words in my mouth.
An atheist does not believe in a god, everything else is extra, an atheist can believe there are no gods but thats irrelevant.
If however you insist on using the term "atheist" to define a person who believes there are no gods then by your definitions im not an atheist and neither are most people here, you will have a hard time finding someone to fit that description and even then, what are you gonna do when you find someone like that? attack them and demand proof?
Jackson Wright
>An atheist believes that there is no gods/God/Bog.
False. This is a strawman fabricated by feeble-minded idiots.
>This is a claim unsubstantiated by knowledge. The idiots who are incapable of accurately defining knowledge are ironically hoping to poison the well with false definitions.
Dominic Foster
>news, politics, current events
Andrew Garcia
nothing is happening atm, so might aswell call these idiots on their bullshit and try clean up this place.
Jayden Fisher
>Usually untrue. This is a bad assumption. Just not so. Their problem is with the state of knowledge for giving an answer to it.
>The answer is un-knownable due to the definition of what can quantified as "knowledge." Just a roundabout way of saying pretty much the same thing as I did.
Zachary Gray
>An atheist believes that there is no gods/God/Bog. Why would anyone fall for such an obvious lie? There have been thousands of false religions based on lies. Why would your false religion be any different?.
>This is a claim unsubstantiated by knowledge False again. We have thousands of years of data from thousands of cultures, societies and states with hundreds of religions and thousands of gods and it always comes out the same - it's all lies.
Nolan Thomas
>Why would anyone fall for such an obvious lie? Perhaps for the same reason people fall for bait threads.
sage goes in all fields
Nathan Jones
I think he gets the point, if he doesnt hes retarded and isnt worth our time anyway so i agree, sage
>tho i do like taking the bait, it doesnt have a hook in it. Think of it as an old man sitting next to a pond, throwing pieces of bread for ducks. The old man gets some enjoyment out of and and maybe doesnt feel as lonely, but the ducks, they get the damn bread.
Camden Bailey
>The most glaring issue I have here is that an atheist is not only accepting “Does God/gods/Bog exist?” as a legitimate question, but providing and adhering to a response. But OP, it is a valid question and if we don't even try to give a response and debate it we'll never come any closer to finding out why and how we exist. If we don't find out why or how we exist, why should we exist at all?
William Hernandez
I have no clue what it's called, but my religious belief is that all religions have some truth, but the first God was created in the future by humans, then went back in time and became the catalyst for the Big Bang, creating the universe.
All gods are thought forms created and fed by human belief, who, while having immense power to manipulate reality, adhere to what their followers believe of them so the followers continue to feed them belief. Gods arise when a belief creates a unified image/ideal of that belief and never really die, but change to suit their followers. They exist outside of time, but cannot act at times when they lack followers believing them. They can probably be destroyed if a human created something enough people believe would be able to destroy them (ex. Lance of Longinus) and humans found a way of isolating one in a way we could interact with it outside of believing in it or ignoring it. I do not think they have individual minds, as they are an ideal representation of a concept, but that may be wrong. By nature they are not necessarily benevolent or evil, but they follow the expectations of those who believe in them. They don't need you to follow them, just believe, for example, Satan exists and is evil because Christians (and others who call him differ by names) believe he exists and believe he is evil, he is quite powerful and has a lot of influence, because a lot of people believe in him. Science may be an amalgamation of gods shoved together by Humans who believed they found a solution to something, thus changing its reality to exist the way they believed. Basically I believe meme magic exists and controls reality, all ideas are just memes at a base form.
Chase Russell
>This is where you are wrong, you are free to use the word in that way, but when talking to actual atheists its a strawman argument, you are putting words in my mouth. >False. This is a strawman fabricated by feeble-minded idiots.
I understand the most broad and far-reaching definition of "atheism" is quite simply an absence of a belief in gods/God/Bog. However, this assertion is usually accompanied by other claims that introduce belief into the equation, and there is never a clear distinction between the general case and the others.
I suppose I should have been more direct in my assertion earlier, as it is genuinely rare in my experience to interact with someone who calls themselves an atheist but does not support the claim "God does not exist."
My issue is instead with those who make the aforementioned assertion.
Nathaniel Harris
I agree, but I'm more concerned with the question itself before I go about determining an answer.
Its an easy mistake to make, but please go on, why do you have issued with those who claim there is no god?
Because while i cant make that claim, i could make the claim that there is no good reason for me to believe that there IS a god and if this claim is true, then doesnt gods actual existance become irrelevant when we cant distinguish between there being a god and there not being a god?
Brayden Thomas
My biggest issue is simply how we define (specifically, the lack of a definition) God or any similar concept. In my mind, any conversation should stop immediately as "God" is both ill-defined and logically nonsensical (i.e. all of qualities or attributes assigned to "God" exist beyond the bounds of our ability to understand, e.g. "omniscience").
I have an issue with those who make a claim "There is no God" because it is an assertion that is based upon a belief.
Jordan Cooper
Of course you need to define a god first, but im an atheist because i havent heard a definition of god that i believe in and when someone says "well the sun can be a god" i just dont believe the sun to be a god.
I also think that the position where you believe that there is no god is justified if you have your own definition of god which is somehow impossible or unprovable and for all the gods i've heard of, this seems to be the case.
As long as we are using the "lack of belief in a god" definition of atheism, ignostics also fall into that category, we are actually on the same boat.
Oliver Robinson
It was my own fallacy to assume that atheists in the broadest sense died out a long time ago. Clearly, you are an example that this is untrue. In my experience, "atheist" usually isn't used in this manner.
Concisely, I take issue with the assertion "There is no God" because it insists there exists a logically-sound, well-defined quantity to refute. I contend that this assumption requires belief of some sorts, and as a skeptic, the only things I have begrudgingly allowed myself to "believe" are the consistency of arithmetic and the infallibility of causality.
And yes, we certainly are in the same boat. I didn't come here to argue with people who lack belief, but rather dispute those with a belief of some kind.
Liam Gutierrez
Well i take issue with those who claim "there is no god" with absolute certainty, but i dont think anybody does that, even if they do, they are stupid.
However when someone just asserts there is not god he might just be expressing hes belief and after all, a god either exists or does NOT exist and if a person has done enough research he can come to the conclusion that a god not existing is more probable. Tho if you ask me, they are pretty much just claiming that there is no good reason to believe in a god rather than trying to disprove god, because most holding this position know that you cant prove a negative.
I know a public figure holding this position Matt Dillahunty, go look him up, he makes a lot of good points.
Jackson Barnes
For me it's pretty simple -- this world is way too fucked up for there to be a god. Every single day that I watch the news, especially in the last few weeks, I'm convinced that "god" doesn't exist. Of course I'm not 100% certain of that, but if there is some sort of higher being up there pulling all the strings down here, frankly, he/she/it is doing a fucking terrible job and I have no interest in worshiping them.
Jaxon Gutierrez
...
Liam Martin
Thats only one argument, but it only works against gods that are claimed to intervene in human affairs.
Connor Powell
Because there is no proof of said god. If i asked you if you believe in unicorns, would you say: OH UMM IM NOT SUURE Apply the same fucking logic, someone makes a claim about something that "exists", fails to prove it, you cant just say well maybe it does. fuck off amerifag
Landon Adams
>Matt Dillahunty I bookmarked his Wikipedia page as a reminder to check out his talks as time permits.
I need some time to digest the notion of "There is no God" as opposed to "There is no good reason to believe in God." Of course, I still maintain that even entertaining the notion of "God" as a concept is just plain silly, but I'm interested in how "no good reason" correlates with knowledge and belief. This form of argumentation is foreign to me, as literally every atheist I know here in the U.S. is the "does not exist" variety, which drives me insane. So thanks for the food for thought.
Also, this thread as whole was enlightening in the sense that I've realized I need to treat the term "atheism" in the same way I handle "feminism" in that the prelude to any conversation will be, "Well, what kind of atheist are you?" Otherwise the results are less than desirable.
Joseph Sullivan
This is what turned me away from religion. I was raised Catholic. Freshman year of college my best friend's parents were murdered in their home with his younger brother hiding in his closet while it happened.
In rejecting my faith, however, I became keenly interested in developing a consistent framework of philosophy that successfully encompasses all of my views. It's an ongoing process.
Isaiah Green
Its good to realise that words have more than 1 meaning.
As final thought i'll try to make a couple things more clear. I really dont think that when people say "there is no god" that they are claiming absolute certainty (and even if they are its usually just a way of rebellion, or just trolling), usually its just a clumsy way of saying "you shouldn't believe that stuff" and when talking about god, vast majority of people are talking about the christian god because christianity is the religion affecting their lifes. Some atheists arent even aware of other god claims and would not know how to handle them.
Elijah Foster
You may be correct, but I prefer people to be direct their meaning. To me, "X is false" means simply that, and I assume that is actually the intended argument.
Elijah Rivera
Im an atheist because even if there is a "higher power," what is the point in calling it God
Sebastian Robinson
I'm sorry my countrymen have failed to catch up with the modern world of thinking. Can't wait for religion to die out. Too bad I will be dead. Come one cyberization.
James Davis
>Atheism is a belief/system of beliefs, the same as theism.
>a lack of belief is a belief >plain toast is a form of jam on toast except without the jam (You)
Tyler Collins
These new atheists arent familiar with arguments and dont understand logical absolutes, agnosticism or multiple definitions of god or multiple usages for words.
Its almost 7 AM here, i supposed i should go to bed or something.
Nolan Phillips
It's like Obama refusing to say ISIS but keeps calling it ISIL unwritten rule that anyone who can't write Sup Forums correctly is a jew You're welcome summerfags
