Redpill me on fracking. Are there legitimate concerns about it affecting the environment in a much worse way than regular extration?
Redpill me on fracking...
Jordan Smith
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Chase Edwards
Yes, even a retard can look at geologic history, fracking, and water table pollution, then make a connection
Chase Sanchez
That's one of my problems with libertarians and their "but it's more cost-effective to be environmentally friendly anyway!" argument. Being from Poland I'm so relieved they abandonned their fracking project over there. Growth and jobs are both fine, but if the price is to ruin permanently our clay, fuck you
Ian Stewart
Trump supports fracking. I think he is more qualified than some virgin user.
Asher Cruz
Fracking seems very safe to me.
youtube.com
Julian Foster
No, pumping a random mix of non biodegradable toxic chemicals down into the earth is totally fine.
What could possibly go wrong?
Lucas Torres
Poisens the ground water, causes sinkholes and earthquakes. Legit shit tier method of getting fuel senpai.
Mason Garcia
Where is the evidence?
Bogus from what I've seen. Not due to fracking.
Are you against nuclear energy too? Pic is misleading obviously it's not that close to ground water.
Chase Rivera
>Poisens the ground water
more so than regular? afaik poorly built wells will do that irrespective of fracking
>causes sinkholes and earthquakes
yeah insignificant earthquakes. alarmist
Landon Perry
Worse, they use things like lead and uranium in the mixtures they pump underground.
Mason Evans
Causing earthquakes and possibly contaminating drinking water.
theguardian.com
huffingtonpost.com
Austin Miller
Even if they do it's 1000s of feet of rock below drinking water.
cmon pol i thought we could have a good convo here
Carson Young
Pumping chemicals that would make your intestines corrode right into the earth and the water is clearly a flawless idea
Aiden Taylor
3.0 quakes are literally nothing
en.wikipedia.org
>huffingtonpost.com
huff post blog article into the trash
>>>/reddit/
Where do you think trash goes?
Nathaniel Sullivan
Absolute load of shit (in Australia anyway)
I work in shale gas and the chemicals used are highly regulated
Josh Fox is a Russian oil shill
Aiden Davis
>it's 1000s of feet of rock below drinking water.
Oh, so it's perfectly fine. I feel reassured.
Hunter Russell
A co worker gave me two cans of coconut milk from thailand she didn't want to drink because it contained the shit they put into fracking. I literally just shat blood
I don't give a shit about fracking but it thought you should know not to buy coconut milk made from thailand
Juan Rodriguez
cbc.ca
>"For every 100 magnitude three earthquakes, you'll get 10 of magnitude four and one magnitude five,"
>"The higher the rate of seismicity, the greater likelihood you'll trigger at least one large event."
>In Alberta's Fox Creek area, there were 367 tremors measured in 2015, according to Alberta's Energy Regulator.
>Most of them were under magnitude three, but a magnitude 4.4 hit in January 2015, and an even stronger magnitude 4.6 shook the area in January 2016.
367 earthquakes in a single year, if that doesn't ring alarm bells the bells are broken or being tampered with.
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
The fact alone that the Big Oil needs to silence scientists and shill around tells me more than enough that it's dangerous.
It's great example of multinational corporations putting profits over people and the environment.
Nathan Foster
i know it's off topic but we're bound to hit this subject in this thread: biofuels
i study biochemical engineering and everything that is being said about bioethanol, biodiesel and biogas is a lie. it is NOT as effective as fossil fuels, greenhouse gasses are still emitted and it costs way more than fuels derived from oil. now before you get your panties in a bunch, i'm not defending the oil industry, i'm just saying biofuels are not a viable alternative.
only nuclear energy is adequately effective and relatively safe for the environment (give or take a few disasters)
John Brooks
It's good for profits. That's all you need to know. Nothing matters more than profits.
Hunter Baker
That was not caused by fracking you were gonna shit blood on that particular day anyway
Brandon Ward
That was proven fake, the guy even admitted to it, everything is gasland is a farce, go watch FrackNation.
Liam Gutierrez
wtf I hate cross sections now
Aaron Howard
Literally disturbs middle earth
LotR was more or less a documentary
Benjamin Brooks
So many kike shills and socialist leftcucks ITT
Fracking is safe according to the EPA. The only people who oppose it are (((Hollywood))) kikes and envirowhackos
Jonathan Johnson
Actually Solar and few other renewable energy sources have become a lot more viable sources for energy in the past 10 years or so. The problem is with storing all that energy. Advantage of nuclear energy is more or less the fact that it's there 24/7 while solar need to be stored somewhere when it's available.
youtube.com
Nuclear power is great in-between alternative but not a proper long term solution as it still produces waste which needs to be stored somewhere and for a very long time.
popularmechanics.com
Adam Clark
Burgers trying to justify squeezing last drops of oil out of dry rock itt. Sad!
Chase Cook
I've done some training in water distribution and treatment and from what I've learned is that fracking would work if they would just collect the fucking chemicals they shoot in the ground when they are done with them. They shoot that shit in there and leave it
But yea I learned that if there is fracking in the area all the water just becomes unusable. Also whatever agency manages that stuff decided that fracking wasn't a big enough of a deal to regulate so they are free to do whatever.
Jackson Hall
>Are you against nuclear energy too?
Yes, even if its mostly safe something always happens eventually and when it happens its really bad. Solar, wind, coal, oil and gas that can be accessed without fracking is where its at. Human caused global warming is a meme anyway and the only thing we should worry about it pollution and that can be remedied with better power plants that burn coal and gas cleaner. No more mining of new uranium, deplete the current stocks and then end it.
Pic related, more of these and less of Fukushima.
>Pic is misleading obviously it's not that close to ground water.
Maybe not now but it could seriously fuck up future generations if the earth shifts a little.
Daniel Jackson
>Also whatever agency manages that stuff decided that fracking wasn't a big enough of a deal to regulate so they are free to do whatever.
Its a trade secret so you won't even know what they put in.
And even if they pump the shit out there will still be crap left and the shit that they took out still has to go somewhere. If they actually had to clean up after themselves it wouldn't be economically viable unless the price of oil and gas goes up by a lot.
Blake Miller
>Big Oil
>Says this unironically
Adrian Cook
most shilled post i've seen
fracking is perfectly safe and well regulated, the only problems are people who break the law and dump waste without treatment and that's the same problem all industry has.
Brody Garcia
That's not DUE to fracking chemicals. It happens in areas with methane pockets underground.
It's still dangerous ofc but it's not due to the chemicals in the fracking fluid, it's due to the methane pockets that collapse and rise to the water DUE to the fracking.
It's no better ofc since methane is toxic as fuck BUT at least understand what's happening.
Anthony Ortiz
and none of those chemicals are suitable for drinking.
Jackson Carter
fracking just allow liquids and gasses to move under the surface through crevices
so it can cause pollutants/gas to get into aquifers (underground rivers)
it's not a dangerous process, compared to hilltop and.open cut mining it's virtually nothing but companies who are engaged in it refuse to admit that it has any effect at all, and won't pay for environmental management. or compensate communities
I'd support it if our environmental regulators weren't corrupt, and mineral giants weren't trying to subvert them
Jason Lee
>Nuclear power is great in-between alternative but not a proper long term solution as it still produces waste which needs to be stored somewhere and for a very long time.
That's not nearly the problem most people think. A fuel rod/pellet is considered 'spent' when it can no longer maintain fission at the needed level, which happens well before all the uranium is spent.
Waste Reprocessing lets you remove the usable fuel from the nuclear waste, which happens to be much of the material that is memed to remain radioactive for thousands of years. The remaining waste is not going to remain hazardous for nearly as long, and the volume will be reduced considerably.
Hudson Adams
If they where fracking so close to your well that it cracked the rock and allowed gas to leak into water table its not that far fetched that you will eventually get the fracking chemicals into your water as well.
Carter James
>Maybe not now but it could seriously fuck up future generations if the earth shifts a little.
...How do you figure? Worse than terrorists funded by petro-states would fuck them up?
Nathan Brooks
Yes it is. Methane is a lighter than air gas, whereas most of those chemicals are not.
Nolan Flores
In theroy the economic benefits far far outweigh the environmental consequences that can be very minimal.
In practice as soon as you give a resource extraction company a contract they will fucking destroy the environment to save a few cents.
Everything in the movie "gasland" is a fucking lie.
We've gotten a few fracking related earthquakes up here.
Austin Carter
>Not saying this unironically.
Joseph Rivera
actually, this is where biochemical engineering is useful for once. there are certain microorganisms and even plants that can assimilate radioactive isotopes
i agree solar power is cool, a lot better than ridiculous wind power. i hope more advancements are made and we don't have to use nuclear energy, but until then nuclear is the best option we've got
Landon Cooper
>...How do you figure? Worse than terrorists funded by petro-states would fuck them up?
Why can't the US just buy its fucking oil fair and square instead of supporting retarded dictators and shitting all over the place?
It might take a while but if there is open access between the water and the fracking fluid it will mix eventually. And it might open up in the future after an earthquake or something.
Henry Ramirez
Fracking is a environmentalist meme.
It's literally just drilling after oil, and every company does exactly the same procedure everywhere on the planet.
t.Petroengineer.
Thomas Garcia
with respect, my understanding is that there are some key differences
fracking occurs often closer to the surface, and is being carried out in proximity to populated land
I support oil wells, but that doesn't mean I support them being built next to cities
Charles Myers
Yeah, but the whole concept of "fracking" being a specific kind of oil drilling that is more dangerous than other kinds is a political fabrication.
Being against oil drilling close to populated areas is fine; creating a political narrative that is completely false is not.
Ryan Bailey
>It's literally just drilling after oil,
No its not.
Old way
>drill hole
>oil/gas comes out
Fracking
>drill hole
>pump shit in
>frack the shit out of it
>pump more shit in
>oil/gas comes out
Not even remotely close.
Carson Barnes
>"acids"
Many acids are perfectly fine for consumption and healthy, also suitable for drinking
>Sodium chloride
Perfectly fine for consumption, Necessary nutrients for living. Suitable for drinking
>Guargum
Found in from certain edible plants, completely safe and healthy in many ways, suitable for drinking
>Citric acid
Perfectly safe for consumption, your own body makes citric acid for many important purposes. Suitable for drinking.
At least 4/10 of these are suitable for drinking.
Cooper Bailey
A few anti-fracking movies were paid for by the Saudis. It was set to bankrupt their horrible little Wahhabism spreading empire so they went full tilt against it, crashing oil prices when scaremongering didn't work.
Connor Long
oh contraire, I think the people who have issues with fracking are not from a scientific background and are quick to jump on the bandwagon
they may say "fracking is bad", not "fracking near my house is bad"
or they may say "fracking gives me a headache" rather than "I have concerns about ambient gas emissions"
the people opposed are lay-people, often uneducated
the suporters are carefully picked scientists and PR professionals
don't make the mistake of thinking that whoever argues better is more likely to be right
fracking is the commercial responce to a oil/gas supply that is threatened by war in the middle east and china
instead of building better wells, greed and desperation will drive mining closer to build up areas in search of virgin deposits
that's the real risk
the people
Justin Taylor
Shut the fuck up Swedecuck. You have zero idea what you're talking about.
Connor Barnes
>t.Petroshill
Tyler Clark
Although I'm formerly a libertarian, economically speaking if all externalities are accounted for and reimbursed then it's true that it's more cost effective to be environmentally friendly. The problem I have with certain libertarians is ignoring the externalities part of the economic formula.
Adam Jones
>everything is a coincidence
Carter Morris
No, I am not a "petroshill", but stop having opinions on a topic you have zero knowledge about.
You know literally nothing about oil drilling and that's evidence by your post.
Ryder Baker
>No, I am not a "petroshill", but stop having opinions on a topic you have zero knowledge about.
You admitted that you have a financial interest in the industry.
>You know literally nothing about oil drilling and that's evidence by your post.
evident*
Easton Bell
but the point that you have vested interest, and that your perspective has likely been moulded by the people around you (who also have vested interest) I think is still valid
when I worked in casino they told me ll the great things about gambling, I'm sure you were told all the great things about oil
now that doesn't make you wrong, but it does mean that I'm not going to accept arguments on the basis of your opinion
Charles Cook
I said I was a petroleum engineer, I didn't say I currently worked for a oil company, you conspiritard idiots.
For your information I lost my job in the spring, along with 5000 other people in the Norwegian oil industry.
Jace Morales
sorry to hear it user, let us not be sidetracked
there are real concerns about fracking that have never really been addressed
A. how long do the chemicals used last in the environment
B. how dangerous are they
C. how do we ensure that as mining moves closer to settled areas the intereests of the community are respected
D. how do we ensure fair compensation
for instance mining companies have long been making one deal when proposing a site, then changing operating practices after the mine is built and residents who have their properties acquired can no longer complain
and how do we ensure that if these practices should cause harm in 50 years, that compensation is still available, even if the company goes bust or moves overseas
Noah Turner
Would not whine, free methane.
Jack Parker
You can drastically minimise environmental impact s by implementing fracking correctly.
Adam Cruz
Ad hominem.
If you're so well educated in the field, it should be easy for you to counter his/her claims through proper facts.
But being a "Petroengineer" alone doesn't mean you're right or that you know what you're talking about.
Besides there's no guarantee that you're one nor that we really care if you are.
Blake Barnes
What "claims"?
That "old-style" drilling was X way, and fracking is something new?
Well that is false, and it takes you literally 10 minutes of googling to find that out, and yet you want me to dignify it with an educated response.
No sorry, I'm not going to bother with memelords who would believe the Earth was flat if the media told them.
Bentley Brooks
Friend is a geologist and explained it to me this way:
If the oil companies did things "by the book", made sure their oil wells were cemented properly, and put extra sealing around the aquifer layer like they are supposed too, people wouldn't know wtf fracking is.
This costs money. Well drilling is expensive, and the last thing an oil company wants is to pay a drill crew more than they have too. They want them in, out, and done ASAP. Safety and health concerns take a backseat, and the bare minimum to get the job done is pretty much the standard. This is why you see fun things like people's drinking water being on fire, and contaminated wells.
Horizontal drilling and fracking is part of the reason the US is slowly becoming energy independent. When done on old wells, it's not uncommon to get usable production out of them again.
tl;dr profit > safety
Alex Jones isn't good for you in large doses.
Gross oversimplification, you know 99% of fracking fluid is water, right?
Job market will swing back around Norway bro. Over here in EE land unless you have the you have to job hunt pretty hardcore.
> interests of the community are respected
> how do we ensure fair compensation
Social issues are not a technology problem.
It's an anonymous forum, YMMV?
Noah Garcia
The final form of oil/gas production through drilling on this planet.
Basically unprofitable. Extremely dirty and damaging to the environment. 100% linked to earthquakes.
Absolutely vital and necessary to staying energy independent for the next 20 years. Anyone opposed to it is literally a terrorist.
Lincoln Turner
>Gross oversimplification, you know 99% of fracking fluid is water, right?
Go drink some fracking fluid then, its 99% water.
Hunter Rodriguez
>Pumping toxic materials into the soil for an outdated energy source
Michael Garcia
Reminder that there are real fracking shills
Carter Butler
Interesting documentary
youtube.com
Evan Perry
>Social issues are not a technology problem.
I think you conflate "cause" and "fault"
of course fracking does not cause the problem, but it enables it
fracking allows mining for gas to take place in very very close proximity to housing
theoretically you could even frack UNDER building as I understand
when you create a technology, you must manage the impacts on society
what you are arguing seems akin to someone making grenades and saying the blood is on the hands of the people who use them
someone has to take responsibility for the impacts of fracking, if you wont and he government wont, and companies wont, and workers within those companies wont; then why should the community allow your industry to operate?!
Matthew Ramirez
Yes it is worse, but worth it.
Oliver Scott
>literally turning USA into the Mad Max world
Connor Campbell
>If the oil companies did things "by the book", made sure their oil wells were cemented properly, and put extra sealing around the aquifer layer like they are supposed too, people wouldn't know wtf fracking is.
You clearly have no idea what youre talking about. You cannot just drill a hole in the ground and frack it to "save costs". That would leave you with very little control of where the fracking fluid goes and which formation it would fracture. It would more than likely also just collapse the hole altogether. Your friend is an uninformed idiot.
The goal of fracking is to fracture just the oil formation after it is drilled into horizontally. Anything else is literally millions of dollars wasted.
The only way to do this is to turn the hole you just drilled into essentially a giant pipe. You do this by placing whats called "casing" (big metal tubes) from the bottom of the hole all the way back up to the surface, and having them all cemented in place. Your giant hole in the ground is now called a "cased hole". When its time to frack, a pipe full of explosives and shrapnel called a "wireline gun" is lowere down the cased hole and blows holes into the casing in strategic locations along the horizontally drilled section of the oil formation. The frack pumps then pump fracking fluid at high pressure all the way down the cased hole into the wireline gun holes dotted along the oil formation. When the fluid enters these little holes, the fracking fluid fractures and spreads throughout the oil formation, allowing oil to flow through the smooth, clean cased hole and up to the surface without any dirt, water or sand being mixed in.
Im telling you all this because casing is also what keeps water and other layers of formations protected from fracking fluid and oil, while at the same time being an absolute necessity for a proper (or any) fracking operation. You cannot frack a hole without casing. It is literally fucking impossible.
t. Ex-oilfield fag
Gavin Cooper
That's what the court system is for.
Jose Butler
So how long does it take before the fracking fluid is safe to drink and use?
Jeremiah Anderson
Fracking fluid is pumped back out the well, "filtered" and the water is then recycled for more fracking operations.
You drink fracking fluid, I dont know wtf made you even ask this.
Colton Cook
Dont* drink
Nathaniel White
>Basically unprofitable. Extremely dirty and damaging to the environment. 100% linked to earthquakes.
Citation needed... For every single one of these statements.
Elijah Campbell
but the court system is bound to follow the law
...and the laws are made by polliticians
the law doesn't provide adequate protection, the politicians give exemptions to companies big enough to pay them
for instance the courts support "compulsory acquisition" , where people are forced to sell their land at "market value"
turns out the land value is OK if you take the offer straight up, but virtally nothing if you sell after the initial offer
can't trust the courts
Hunter Rivera
>You mean Fallout
Colton Bailey
>Redpill me on fracking. Are there legitimate concerns about it affecting the environment in a much worse way than regular extration?
Liberals absolutely fucking hate it and try their hardest to get it banned. As they do this with every reasonable, safe, and actually efficient form of energy in existence, I can only assume that fracking is indeed all of the above, because if it wasn't they wouldn't have an obsession with banning it.
Hunter Edwards
>generic "acids"
how ominous
Liam Ward
I ask because sooner or later the earth shift and things brake and erode.
The shit that stays in the ground, is it safe to drink 100 years from now?
Kevin Bailey
Absolutely embarassing. Have anti-fracking liberals really sunk this low?
Isaiah Thompson
there are actually 500+ chemicals used
many have been proven unsafe
many have simply never had their effects on people tested
this isn't like wind turbines causing headaches, there are real chemicals used, real hazrds, and a real lack of legislative protection
Aiden Morales
If things shift and erode centuries from now, youre going to be fucked either way because then youd have crude oil leaking into your water supply, regardless of fracking.
But as far as fracking goes, most of the fluid is made up of organic materials such as powdered grass (which is edible btw) mixed with non-potable recycled water and sand, used to keep the fractures open in the oil formation. So yes, it fine, especially when you keep in mind this is occuring tens of thousands of feet below any water formation (which, as stated earlier, has to be protected by cemented casing).
Camden Morgan
>there are actually 500+ chemicals used
Citation needed. The bare bones of a fracking fluid mixture is organic powder gel made from a special type of grass, along with recycled water, sand, acid and a small amount of a chemical known as "cross link" used to make sure it all mixes together smoothly.
>real lack of legislative protection
What is the EPA? They regularly inspect well sites and will do so unnannounced. And if you think they cut oil or oil service companies any slack, you are grossly mistaken. They are on the Oil and Gas Industry like flies on shit.
Elijah Brown
Meanwhile the Department of Defence is happily polluting rivers across the country with PFOS and PFOA. But to be fair to the DoD it's only because people have actually tested it around their sites. PFC pollution is everywhere and nobody cares
news.com.au
But no you're right, those toxic chemicals being pumped >200m below the surface are the real dangers to our health
t. Environmental Consultant
Hudson Young
> what you are arguing seems akin to someone making grenades and saying the blood is on the hands of the people who use them
Technologies merely act as extensions of the will of the humans who wield them. To presume that their creators are at fault is misleading at best, and destructive at it's worst.
Most Fracking wells never have issues. How does the idea of fair compensation play into this? (Not trolling, genuinely curious to hear the logic here)
You never know who's on here in a given day, and I try to err on the side of don't scare layman's with technical terms.
> You cannot just drill a hole in the ground and frack it to "save costs".
Hydraulic fracturing of old wells was becoming more common, I thought. Otherwise we wouldn't have articles like this:
You're right about casing being integral to the process of hydraulic fracturing. but how often do they cut corners during the well cementing process, to save on deployment costs? What's the actual failure rate on a well casing? The numbers on google are all over the place.