Just saw this movie. Did things really go down like this or is it just polish propaganda?

Just saw this movie. Did things really go down like this or is it just polish propaganda?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygmunt_Rumel
imdb.com/title/tt1714205/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmelnytsky_Uprising#Casualties
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batih_massacre
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidamaka
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Uman
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lwów_Eaglets
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Lithuanian_union
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volhynian_Bloody_Sunday_(1943-07-11)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia#Methods
krotov.info/library/02_b/berdyaev/1918_15_19.html
youtube.com/watch?v=OTzo_4y-MYg
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

If there is a movie about it I'd go with propaganda

What do you mean?

Ukrainians are proud of all of this, so even if they acknowledge it, together with Polish survivors and disgusted Germans, then I think that yep

Everything is true

According to some accounts it was even worse, but as long as the Ukrainian governement keeps blocking researchers from proceeding with exhumations in that area, we'll never know for sure.

Why did you even watch this movie though?
And what are your impressions?

I thought it was mostly good, the two things I didn't like were the constant fucking singing during the wedding at the beginning, even if it was authentic, and the cheapness of the WWII battle scenes.

In fact it was worse, for example for that guy torn apart by horses. In the movie he was killed just after the capture, while in reality:

>In early summer 1943, when the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), together with local Ukrainian nationalists, began a campaign of massacres of Polish civilians in Volhynia, Rumel, who spoke Ukrainian fluently, was assigned to get in touch with leaders of the UPA and start talks, which would bring an end to the massacres. The order was issued by Kazimierz Banach, chief of staff of the Bataliony Chłopskie and a delegate of the Polish government-in-exile in Volhynia.[4]

>On 7 July 1943, Rumel, together with officer Krzysztof Markiewicz (aka Czort), both dressed in military uniforms, aided by guide Witold Dobrowolski,[4] contacted the Ukrainians. They were officially representing the Polish government.[1] However, instead of peace talks, a different fate awaited them.[5] Both were brutally tortured for three days. Then, on Saturday 10 July, Rumel was tied to four horses and his body ripped apart.[6][7] Markiewicz and Dobrowolski were killed in the same manner in the village of Kustycze, near the Volhynian town of Turzyska.[8] The next day, Sunday 11 July 1943, was the bloodiest day yet of the Volhynian massacres, when armed Ukrainians attacked Polish settlements and churches, killing thousands of people, including infants, women and the elderly.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygmunt_Rumel

no sympathy for poles

Only we can control the evil Ukrainians. Like us, they understand only strength.

English subtitles exists?

Why did they do it at all? I always thought that the Poles and Ukrainians were friends always.

>it's the year 3030

>poles are still butthurt

I feel sorry for Poland. They are the most unfortunate in Europe.

State funded cimema, what did you expect. At least shot better than "crimea 2017 "

imho in polish - ukrainian confict there were no good guys frob both sides. Whitewashing any side - pure propaganda.

"hello, p-please, guise we-we just want to czolonize these lands and wipe out you later o-ok?
No? g-get out? MONSTERS! "

Why do you post this bullshit in every thread about Ukraine? Who even says that?

Rather watch this.
imdb.com/title/tt1714205/

>I always thought that the Poles and Ukrainians were friends always.
lmao

I dunno, but this is the blandest poster I have ever seen. Memorable posters are a lost art it seems.

bait?

what happened was awful but it doesn't mean you have to feed a persecution complex and heat ethnic tensions with these films every few years

It was a lot worse in reality.
If it wasn't - Ukrainian government wouldn't oppose to exhumations of the bodies. It was so fucking bad that the nazis in the region (UPA were their lapdogs) didn't want anything to do with that.

But it just proves how sad the Ukrainian reality is.
Imagine being a non-country so bad that the only base of your identity is a genocidal collaborant and wewuz-tier myths about cossacks (not ukrainians) and tatars (not ukrainians either).

It can happen again if they forget about it...

It is a complicated question, but long story short there were periodic symilar massacres commited on Poles, Jews but also Armenians or Czechs living in that region commited by proto-Ukrainians/Ukrainians. It's not surprising since the Cossacks also gathered a lot of criminals fleeing from the Crown to the Wild Fields. Those guys often organised various raids against regional peasants (this is not mentioned in contemporary Ukrainian historiography) or against the Crimean Khanate/the Ottomans (even during the peacetime between Poland and Turks, so it was often inconvenient for our kings).

to be continued...

Poland gonna invade Ukraine.
Then Putin will liberate both,
result will be perfect - radically reduced population and property for low price for everyone

>le "we were all bad guys" centrist face
Oh fuck off, the scale of Polish revenge attacks doesn't even come close to what UPA organised to our civilians and negotiators. And more importantly, the Poles that took part in these actions are condemned nowadays, not hailed as heroes. Meanwhile your president gave these sick fucks from UPA national hero status. This is not normal.

During the Khmelnytsky Uprising they started massacres of Polish peasants, townfolks etc. They also massacred local Jews.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmelnytsky_Uprising#Casualties

They were also frustrated after they lost one very large battle (Beresteczko), so later a much smaller battle of Batih they massacred all Polish captives:

>The Batih (Batoh) massacre (Polish: Rzeź polskich jeńców pod Batohem) was a mass execution of Polish captives after the Battle of Batih on 3–4 June 1652 near Ladyzhyn (now in Ukraine). It was carried out by Ukrainian Cossacks under the command of Hetman Bohdan Khmelnytsky.[3][4]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batih_massacre

Every few years? There was not a single movie about Volhynia massacres. We don't even learn about it in schools. Our governments actively avoided this subject for decades.

what is poland amigo?
once get rich from selling wheat from it's colonies
then hire all italians to change dugouts on baroque style houses

well okay, but what next? dividing, oppresion, etc. Literally a laughing stock of Europe, never-ending source for jokes untill late 00s. So who the fuck you are, along with your shithole to judge us.

Thanks for the info. I am very far from Europe and do not feel myself as European

(Far East)

>Poland gonna invade Ukraine.
More like build a wall and pretend nothing past it exists.
Jagiellonian dynasty was a mistake.

I understand why the subject was avoided when Poland was under communist rule (trying to avoid inter-Soviet Union tensions, which was the same reason that the With Fire and Sword movie was delayed for so long compared to the other ones that deal with foreign foes, I think), but how well has it been covered since Poland regained its independence? Did it still take time for them to begin covering it in schools?

i mean in general, not just the volynhia massacres or poland

national tragedy porn movies do nothing but raise ethnic tensions and enshrine oversimplified narratives about historical events into the public consciousness

I doubt EU taxpayers would allow it.

What happens there?

I think that even documentaries can be counter-productive and dangerous unless they do the most meticulous research possible on whatever historical subject they cover.

>What happens there?
Depression everywhere.

During the next century there were numerous massacres of civilians commited by so called Haidamaka:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidamaka
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Uman

And later, during the Romanticism, those massacres became a fundament of newly created Ukrainian national identity, see for example Haidamaky (1823) by Taras Shevchenko. Then this tradition was adopted by Ukrainian nationalists, who were especially frustrated since they lost fighting against Polish middle shool children in Lwów after ww1:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lwów_Eaglets

And the Ukrainian nationaliusm became more and more deranged, at some point they even created those "ten commandments" that ordered them to commit any crime for the Ukraine. And then ww2 started so they had an opportunity to massacre all "enemies" (Poles, Armenians and Czechs, also some Belarusians) again.

>once get rich from selling wheat from it's colonies
lmao, is that what they teach you in schools? This is like the Eastern European equivalent of the
>we built USA nigga, everything is made from cotton
meme.
You are in no position to meme us about leeching EU funds considering the amount of free shit you get from Poland. Gas, low tax exports, free education. Even the whole Nordstream bullshit was started mostly because of Ukraine.

>(Far East)
Oh, that's interesting. How is seen the situation with all that recent Chinese growth by Russians from the far East? Is it seen as an opportunity or as a threat?

I unironically hate ukraine now

>Bohdan Khmelnytsky

Why did the Soviets call the street in the Novosibirsk in honor of this Ukrainian? Wtf?!

So historical truth is a bad thing now? What kind of attitude is that?
>oversimplified narratives
Did you even watch the movie? It literally shows a bunch of Polish rednecks murdering a helpless Polish-Ukrainian family. It's hardly one-sided.

Hate yourself first. You brought more pains to the Poles than the Ukrainians.

Why? People who did this are probably all dead by now.

poles are the biggest dindus

I do not see a threat from this side. They are still have quite small population and they can not unite here. In addition, there are not too good conditions for life: cold, wild forests

hehe, bullseye
well, c'mon it doesn't matter how to earn money

> free shit you get from Poland.
free (no) reversibly imported gas from russia
*merchant face* yesss, hohol's raw materials to re-export in UK four times expensive
education where? in poland?

>tfw there's a street named after Taras Shevchenko in my city, with a Holodomor monument standing there for no apparent reason
hohol shills in our government are real

>colonies
What? This is some maoism-tier historic revisionism. No part of the Commonwealth was "a colony", moreover, they Commonwealth was created by political unions, not by force:

>1385 – Union of Krewo – a personal union that brought the Grand Duke of Lithuania, Jogaila, to the Polish throne
>1401 – Union of Vilnius and Radom – strengthened the Polish–Lithuanian union[2]
>1413 – Union of Horodło – heraldic union which granted many szlachta rights to Lithuanian nobility
>1432 (1432–34) – Union of Grodno, a declarative attempt to renew closer union
>1499 – Union of Kraków and Vilnius, in which the personal union became a dynastic union, recognising the sovereignty of Lithuania and describing interaction between the two states
>1501 – Union of Mielnik – a renewal of the personal union
>July 1, 1569 – Union of Lublin – a real union that resulted in creation of the semi-federal, semi-confederal Republic of the Two Nations (Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth)
>May 3, 1791 – Polish Constitution of May 3, 1791: abolished the Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, and established a common state, the Rzeczpospolita Polska (the Polish Republic, or Polish Commonwealth) in their place. The Reciprocal Guarantee of Two Nations modified these changes, stressing the continuity of bi-national status of the state. The changes were reversed completely in 1792 under pressure from forces of the Russian Empire.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Lithuanian_union

Ruthenian nobles had the same rights as Polish nobles and those nobles voted to incorporate what is today's Ukraine into the Crown of Poland (in 1569). Actually the main opponent of Khmelnytsky was Jeremi Wiśniowiecki from a Ruthenian/Orthodox family and Ruthenian nobles were so opressed that later his son Michał Korybut Wiśniowiecki was elected king of the Commonwealth. No matter how your revisionists will try to distort the history, they cannot change those simple facts.

lol, Ukrainians doesn't look like that.
What do you expect, of course it must be a propaganda

>colonies
What? This is some maoism-tier historic revisionism. No part of the Commonwealth was "a colony", moreover, they Commonwealth was created by political unions, not by force:

>1385 – Union of Krewo – a personal union that brought the Grand Duke of Lithuania, Jogaila, to the Polish throne
>1401 – Union of Vilnius and Radom – strengthened the Polish–Lithuanian union[2]
>1413 – Union of Horodło – heraldic union which granted many szlachta rights to Lithuanian nobility
>1432 (1432–34) – Union of Grodno, a declarative attempt to renew closer union
>1499 – Union of Kraków and Vilnius, in which the personal union became a dynastic union, recognising the sovereignty of Lithuania and describing interaction between the two states
>1501 – Union of Mielnik – a renewal of the personal union
>July 1, 1569 – Union of Lublin – a real union that resulted in creation of the semi-federal, semi-confederal Republic of the Two Nations (Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth)
>May 3, 1791 – Polish Constitution of May 3, 1791: abolished the Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, and established a common state, the Rzeczpospolita Polska (the Polish Republic, or Polish Commonwealth) in their place. The Reciprocal Guarantee of Two Nations modified these changes, stressing the continuity of bi-national status of the state. The changes were reversed completely in 1792 under pressure from forces of the Russian Empire.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Lithuanian_union

Ruthenian nobles had the same rights as Polish nobles and those nobles voted to incorporate what is today's Ukraine into the Crown of Poland (in 1569). Actually the main opponent of Khmelnytsky was Jeremi Wiśniowiecki from a Ruthenian/Orthodox family and Ruthenian nobles were so opressed that later his son Michał Korybut Wiśniowiecki was elected king of the Commonwealth. No matter how your revisionists will try to distort the history, they cannot change those simple facts.

>it's colonies
Poland never had colonies you halfwit.

Well, he gave half of Ukraine to Russia, so from your point of view he is a hero, no?

...

No.

That's true, the Chinese seem to prefer milder climate, even their interior isn't that populated. Spasibo!

Looks like I hit the right nerve lmao.

Nothing brings an Ukrop to a boil more than a casual reminder their country is made up and their national identity artificial.

He's a beggar. Byzantine-tier.

Didn't he fight against us with the Swedes?

I would like to boil your grandma, since I'm so evil.

No, that was Mazepa.

You already ate yours I presume?

I had no idea the hunger in Ukraine was this bad

too weak
you can do better

>education where? in poland?
Yes? Any Ukrainian with Pole's Card is allowed to study for free here. I've had one ukie girl in my class a couple of years back, I imagine nowadays there's much more of them.
>free (no) reversibly imported gas from russia
Yes, we import it from Russia and give it to you. Why, I don't know, but I hope they won't get pissed off and block us altogether, unless America will really start exporting it here.

What's written there?

1
>History of ancient Ukraine

2
>We are great!

It's something rather well documented. Some scenes are a fictionalization of actual events, like that attack on a church:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volhynian_Bloody_Sunday_(1943-07-11)
or the story of that guy who was torn appart, his name was Zygmunt Rumel, see The movie is also accurate regarding ukrainian methods:
>Norman Davies in No Simple Victory gives a short, but shocking description of the massacres. He writes: Villages were torched. Roman Catholic priests were axed or crucified. Churches were burned with all their parishioners. Isolated farms were attacked by gangs carrying pitchforks and kitchen knives. Throats were cut. Pregnant women were bayoneted. Children were cut in two. Men were ambushed in the field and led away. The perpetrators could not determine the province's future. But at least they could determine that it would be a future without Poles.[101]

>Timothy Snyder describes the murders: "Ukrainian partisans burned homes, shot or forced back inside those who tried to flee, and used sickles and pitchforks to kill those they captured outside. In some cases, beheaded, crucified, dismembered, or disemboweled bodies were displayed, in order to encourage remaining Poles to flee".[52] A similar account has been presented by Niall Ferguson, who wrote: "Whole villages were wiped out, men beaten to death, women raped and mutilated, babies bayoneted."[103] Ukrainian historian Yuryi Kirichuk described the conflict as similar to medieval rebellions.[104]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia#Methods

Well, that's what you get for negotiating with an enemy.
Wonder why nobody tried to kill Bor-Komorowski as well.

Poles are extremely naive. Today our government let about two million Ukrainians. The official narrative is "friendship", "reconciliation", while many of those immigrants are neo-banderites and Poroshenko officially recognizes UPA as heroes. Russians are much more clever because you usually don't have any illusions, while Poles like "big words" and are often blinded by them.

They weren't naive. Soviets were hostile to AK because of it's struggle against GL and Red Army (not that in some moments AK groups weren't helping the soviet troops) and it's loyalty to London govt.
>some time after I've finished ruswiki
No way an army officer can be this delusional, holy shit.
AK commanders had no power and lots of troubles with pro-soviet administration, but at the same time they came there in person to ask for their own parliament with 80% of anti-soviet deputies? Holy shit.

Actually later the underground army was disbanded and - if I remember correctly - the last order was to be open towards the new authorities. I mean, Stalin "filtrated" even Soviet soldiers who were captured by Germans. I don't know what our politicians were thinking. Even in hiding they were wothout any chance since the Soviet secret service was top tier, vide Operation Trust.

Many such cases.

thanks adolf

One great Russian philosopher summarised our nations almost perfectly:
krotov.info/library/02_b/berdyaev/1918_15_19.html

>the last order was to be open towards the new authorities.
Yes, but at the same time the radio transmitters and firearms were stashed instead of being collected and given to new administration.
>Stalin "filtrated" even Soviet soldiers who were captured by Germans
Actually, it was a sensible thing to do, since many german agents and collaborators were trying to merge and disappear in the crowds of liberated POWs and "foreign laborers".
Any human-operated system does mistakes, and so did the filtration system, for example, Antonina "Ton'ka the machinegunner" Makarova have managed to evade the fiter.
Thanks, I'll read it later

most Ukrainians idolize the people who did it as heroes

Not most, actually. It's the state-supported campaign, the majority of supporters is from the western area. If the campaign will go on further, then you would be right.

>most Ukrainians
*A picture of mature chicken asking for facts that help to show you are right*

>not having an actual proofster folder

Sanctions.

topkek, at this point it's simply inhuman

but cheer up, you still have the Omsk bird

let me guess, in the movie poles are portrayed as aryan looking looking people while ukrainians are portrayed as turkish looking

Great idea, I will perform a proofsterchange operation on him.

Urkainian canonical look is black. They look kinda like tatars with bit of Slavic blood. Ofc there are Russian and Polish people who identify as Ukrainians also.

It was worst...

Of course its propaganda

>post r*ssians

No difference between natives on Kuban and Ukraine. They spoke Ukrainian 100 years ago. many don't identify as Russian there even according to our shifted censuses.

So, give back Kuban if you think so

I don't own it. Back to whom?

To "BLACKS", as you say

Ukrainians? But it never belonged to them.

The moustached guy in is a Pole, the blonde guy is a Ukie, so precisely the opposite.
And it's not like anyone in this region of Europe ever gave a shit about hair colour, only Germs are autistic enough to make an ideology out of this.

They went even worse. The movie was too PC to my taste, as if they didn't want to show ukrops in totally bad light.

youtube.com/watch?v=OTzo_4y-MYg