Can someone explain what the hell marx was complaining about in capitalism?

Can someone explain what the hell marx was complaining about in capitalism?

Between 1776 and 1900:

>Workers achieved almost perfect literacy, going from 40% ish to 90%ish.
>Real Wages doubled, in some areas reached 2.5 times their original.
>The excess wealth let child labor end
>Friendly societies were formed to protect the poor from their problems.
>Common law let employees sue businesses for any death or mutilation that occured.

etc

Seriously, it almost always feels like a "Hey religion and feudalism is losing its power to capitalism, quick make something up that makes us still needed" than actual critique of a problem.. especially when capitalism is basically the best ideology in history at the time, still.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_materialism
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he was a lazy kike who never worked a day in his life, trying to rile up the masses with promises of perfect equality among workers, and to give back to the proletariat with no idea on how economics work.

The workers rights you are listing wouldn't have been there if people like Marx weren't there

This.

We may still have capitalism but we've neutered it to be less hostile to workers. And we've done that through the unions, through protest and through electing workers parties.
Maternity leave, holiday pay, sick leave, public healthcare, public education, pay rises, workplace safety laws these all came about from left wing activism and they all make the capitalist experience slightly more bearable.

he was more or less saying economic means would concentrate in the hands of a class that would use them to more or less their benefits against those of the more populaced workers that inevitably reform the system by their numbers to have it serve their interests. he wasnt wrong in that regard.

Americans don't have unions btw lmao

lol

Marx accomplished nothing except agitating workers to demand more than a business could give. which in effect led to mass layoffs when the Businesses bolted.

>Americans don't have unions

I don't understand why leftists are still so completely wed to his philosophies.
We have a century's worth of history of his economic system failing miserably, yet they still want to give it another go.

Why not concoct a new philosophy or system? Surely there must be more than one way to achieve a pinko lefty utopia, why keep rolling the dice on this proven losers theories?

>americans don't know what a union is beyond a dumb mafia racket

The funniest part is that it's entirely possible to have a socialist system contained within a capitalist society. But like so many people Marx just can't stand the idea of other people being happy without his personal influence on their lives.

SEIZE

>demand more than a business could give
Maybe in some cases, in other cases employees were dickheads exploiting their workers

Employers*

are you retarded

>Karl Marx lifetime: 1818-1883
>1776 - 1900

He wrote some shit that he thought was the fucking coolest thing ever, if everyone would work together and take their fair share
He made no mention of the fact that capitalism would be perfect if the people that were a part of it were perfect
Some power-hungry cunts read his shit
They spread his nonsensical fuckery to the impoverished and impressionable, trying to literally trick the idiots into giving them power in exchange for promises of a better life
The marxist assholes did this to try and get society to capitulate for the gibsmedat
The same thing is happening today, where 'white privilege' is some sort of trump card, where idiots who shot their life-savings away into their arms scream and yell about how they shouldn't pay for their fuckups, and how families who have fought tooth and nail against the odds to slowly build wealth are evil for not burning their own shit down in some sort of narcissistic pleasure-seeking effort.

Marxists are gullible fucking retards who fracture society and allow evil people to gain power.

Marx was a dreamer, and had his cool little thought experiments exploited by scummy liars in an attempt to gain power.

>pic not related

>Shown over and over that Economic Freedom correlates with Health, Life expectancy, Growth, Happiness
>Liberals still attach themselves to Marx because people are "unequal"

A liberal would prefer a world where everyone equally starves over a world where someone has a bigger house compared his neighbor.

>implying there is any other kind

[ CITATION NEEDED JETZT ]

He was a cunt of a man with a stick up his ass. Misery loves company.
The facts you listed are the reasons why marxism never took hold in real countries and only affected the backwater shithole Russia.

Marx is burning in hell.

Please explain the difference between your definition of "unions" and ours, genuinely curious.

Btw, the UAW is not a true union, hoping you're not stereotyping that as the typical american union.

Marx was raised by a Rabi, his father was a Rabi.

anglos are the biggest anti marxist forces ever, just see this thread ahaha

>Maternity leave
is retarded.
>Holiday pay
is retarded.
>Sick leave
Jeez I'm sensing a theme here
>Public healthcare
Easily taken advantage of to the detriment of the worker
>Public education
if you could call it that
>Pay rises
would be happening anyway
>workplace safety laws
would be implemented anyway

...

australian ""intelectuals""

If your dad was a Rabbi, he would have tought you a thing or two.
Just like they're implemented in China, am I right?

Go look at what Communism implies and what Judaism is about.

The Talmud is what Marx was raised by.

>>Real Wages doubled, in some areas reached 2.5 times their original.
what does money matter in communism if everyone gets the same shit?

Marx was the original BLM

What most basement socialists, anarchists and communists won't tell you is that as he neared the end of his life, Marx started realizing that socialism/communism was an unsolvable problem. He was good at identifying weaknesses in capitalism, but he was completely incapable of finding a way to get to economic utopia. In his last breath he probably realized why--Humans are selfish dickheads for the purposes of promoting their own genes.

Australia probably has the most workers rights in the world, you dont know how priviliged you are (yes I used that word)

Socialists predate Marx, nothing of Marxs sociopolitical shit mattered to workers getting rights.

They are communist so they should have. I think the problem is the "people" not the system there.

Yes I know. Our labourers get paid more than doctors.

>working class people never seek to improve their standing unless some academic tells them too

ok

Again, my response will be "K".

>americans being antimarxists again
how original
t. mexican intelectual

Yes, capitalism has been a resounding success in contrast to feudalism, theocracy and even primitive republics, but Marxists still want to feel relevant so they nit pick non-issues as problems with "critical theory" and even add problems to the system through affirmative action, non-meritocratic selection, out group preferences to the point of moralizing outsourcing and globalism, then when these things hurt people they turn around and say it's capitalism's fault.

This is the dishonesty of the Marxist, they will trash your home, blame it on the dog and they'll do this just because the dog smells funny.

It's laissez faire style, not libertarian style. Abbott was about to make affirmative action a legal impossibility and low and behold, suddenly women hate Abbott. Why did women hate Abbott? Because women hate Abbott!

Laissez faire is virtually lemon socialism.

>workers want more profit
OKAY YOU DESERVE IT
>YOU WANT TO DESTROY THE CURRENT SYSTEM FOR SOME FANTASY EQUALITY UTOPIA
fuck off

and in fact you can see in places where Marx was king workers have the least rights.

He thought that it was the inevitable next step after capitalism.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_materialism

and the poorest.

Why do you guys even make threads? It's clear that 95% of you are just circlejerking. It really just seems like you just come here to reinforce each other's beliefs and don't care about debate or discussion.

Marx saw the concentration of so much power in the hands of a few to be a corrupting force that would have detrimental effects on the people subject to those entities.

You don't have to be a communist to understand that.

he had a lot of debts to pay and tried to get out of it with intellectual arguments lmao, he also knocked up his maid and tossed her out, much philosophy very friend to poor

nothing
he wrote 3 long meaningless books to look smart and scramble your brains.
he just wants a kike dictatorship
communists must die

>lenin
>innocents

it's a secular religion that still has a foothold in academia, the one place where bad ideas never have to be tested against reality. Also in places that actually have a commie revolution, those useful idiots are the first ones up against the wall. So in a weird way the only place marxists thrive is in countries that respect intellectual freedom while simultaneously never listening to them.

no that's a progressive. stop shitting up the word liberal, it actually means something.

Critical fucking theory was born. Wow. The benefits to humanity are immeasurable.

You problematic pieces of shit don't understand that Marx wasn't AGAINST capitalism. Marx believed in superceding capitalism with a more advanced system in the future, which he called 'socialism'.

Socialism is this idea, not a specific economic theory. Modern Socialists could adopt free-market ideas, if that's what they view as progressive.

He made observations, not many suggestions, but he generally recognised the progress that this system has brought upon humanity.

Let's say he wanted to make it more Democratic, which happened to some degree, especially with the emergence of the middle-class after WW2.

Now the time is right for some kind of socialism, and you see the system naturally moving there. It's not that Hillary or Obama are Marxist, it's that they see the objective need for certain social programs.

Is it a meme on this board to completely strawman everyone who disagrees with you?

we will give you a plot of land with resources and you can try your crazy marxist religion, okay?

tbqh i love how americans got brainwashed by both trotskyist and CIA propaganda

inb4 crazy marxist religion says you can't do that because the whole world has to be communist

No retard, the social consensus will decide on the direction of the economy. I don't want you to give me anything, basically because you don't have anything to give.

is there a good book that describes feudalism as an economic system? Is there a theoretical defense of it?

Communism isn't the red scare, eventually the whole world will be communist out of it's own free will. And that will happen by advancing capitalism to the point that it can't offer any more as a system.

All you've done is redefine communism, whose central tenant is the collective ownership of property into modern post wwII forms of government.

A representative democracy that protects property rights isn't communist.

If your version of communism requires you to reject most of the key features of communism then you're not fucking selling communism and I honestly don't know what you are defending other than the ego of the long dead Marx.

>tfw nobody has said fpbp yet

Is it a rule in your little life to be a retard?

>Marx is critical of the current power structure
>Offers up a similarly-exploited power structure
>Idiots fall for it, and actually live worse lives under the rule of the commie 'good-guys'

Really? Like really? Unless you have incontrovertible proof that Marx was actually planting infantile ideas into the easily-deluded masses to cause conflict in the hope of some sort of grand epiphany suddenly struck the entirety of humanity, where they shrugged off the burden of oppressive government institutions and instead dictated their own lives, I'd have to say that Marx was as stupid as the people he criticized. But oh, it was different, because the people now had the power, until those people then voted together in their perfect little 'worker-run utopia' to have some sort of force of equality, and then that little 'government' then forces itself onto the people, necessitating its own existence, until a neo-marx emerges, and is critical of that system.

TL;DR:
>Is it a meme on this board to completely strawman everyone who disagrees with you?
yes.

Feudalism wasn't simply an economic system, it was a social system too, within a certain technologically immature civilization.

Seems like it's an edgy contrarian teenager circlejerk and a waste of time.

>His views were formed more or less in the 1840-1850's
>There are almost no statistics, so he is basing his views on imperfect common knowledge of working conditions
>The industrial revolution was only good for the working class during its 2nd half, since, more or less, the 1850's.

Irony is: he was predicting capitalism's failure, just about the time it started to explode.

Communism is an aspiration, for a future social&economic order. It doesn't mean burn down the banks and the industries. It's more subtle than that.

Both wrong. He used many statistics with his books, with help from Engels, an industrialist. Also, capitalism did die in the form that it had, giving birth to the social-democracy of the 20th century.

The implications you have thrust upon me are simply arousing.

Basically, try to remember Marx was writing in civil war times.

He denounced his religion at an early age. He was an atheist from the age of 8 or 9.

8 out 10 people in this thread didn t even read what marx wrote

Marx was anti-state and internationalist. He supported free enterprise.

he was raised by a Rabi.

Legalize theft, delete governance and wham you have absolute equality freedom and happiness, next step in human society is disorganized individuals, who knew stone age people had their system right.

I have no iphone, I can't wait to take my neighbors.

Just vote Libertarian

No he wasn't. His father was a lawyer who had to convert out of judaism.

Leftists are the biggest enemies of socialism. What we need is people who promote a minimal state and international trade. This way more peoole are raised to middle class status worldwide, and they can start reading Marx and become Communists. Only way to promote the revolution is to be a good goy.

I'm crimsonmissle now, I can take all the shit from everyone, who knew my crimes of theft didn't exist.

jews hate the west

:0)

If socialism is more efficient why doesn't a buisness test it out? Pay the workers their entire value and allow democratically selected spending for the business as a whole.

Would this not be the ultimate acid test for socialism? It directly competing with capitalism?

No, that business would still be capitalist. It's not socialism. Such businesses exist.

Why would it be a capitalist business if it is a democratically ran business without worker exploitation? If such businesses exist why do they not dominate against their less advanced and less efficient capitalist opponents?

going to go to israel and take head rabi's car and iphone.

...

Because capitalism and socialism are socioeconomic systems, not business models.

Worker exploitation is one thing, private capital is another. This business would have capital.

Some companies have weird or no hierarchy.

Valve has no real corporate structure and bonuses are voted on at end of year (you can't vote for yourself but you are allocated a certain amount of money to blindly give others).

W.L. Gore and Associates, makers of Gore-Tex, divide the company up into 150 man buildings and don't list job titles on employees. Teams are kind of dynamic.

There's a few others I can't recall details off of the top of my head.

Because the free market is a meme and isn't real.

The most efficient doesn't actually win.

private property can not exist in communism.

>Maternity leave
Is horrible. It encourages neglecting children by putting them in daycare so she can go back to her "career".

Marxist don't believe that employers are unethical. We believe that they too are parts of this system. They can't do differently. Even Bill Gates is oppressed by capitalism.

the price mechanism is not a meme

Well, the fact that it only works in an imaginary universe full of perfectly rational people that have no spacial dimensions, over an infinite period of time makes it pretty memey to me.

So communists are retards? Thanks for clarifying, but I guess most people already knew that;

What do you think? That they like to oppress people?

I hate Commies but look up working conditions for people in factories in Victorian England. Kids often lost limbs and were injured with no recompense. The workers were severely mistreated in his time.

We then realized that giving people education eventually makes everyone more money

Capalists have no understanding of economics