Free Universal Healthcare is a basic Humanright and the USA is less developed than fucking namibia for not having it.
Free Universal Healthcare is a basic Humanright and the USA is less developed...
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NOOO NOT NAMIBIA!!!!!!!
Even the Majority of the Far-right over here is in favor of F.U.H.
Maybe americans are just retarded and believes whatever the Public Lobby of Insurance Companies say.
how much free healthcare is a right then?
Go back to Special needs class Kevin.
just saying, are you entitled to a million dollar censer treatment when you are 70 year old and haven't even contributed 100k in taxes over your whole life?
wtf i love free shit
Why use this tired meme instead of just directly stating your position? Try it with me. Type the fallowing:
"The poor should be left to die in the streets. Those who can't pay for healthcare should be turned away and sent home to die. Using public money (taxes) to build roads, educate people, regulate our food supply, and support international corporations to the tune of tens of billions of dollars a year is one thing, but healthcare for our citizens is where I draw the line. Nevermind the inefficiencies and poor outcomes of the current system. Nevermind that healthcare is something that every single citizen is going to need to some extent or another. Nevermind that the per capita spending on healthcare in the current system is much much higher than in comparable single-payer systems, despite our poorer outcomes. None of the matters. Let the poor die".
ye because People>Money. Shouldn't really be a serious Question. You people have some sort of parasite in your Brain.
I love you user
Leftypol lives on it seems. Heck yea.
Slavery is a crime against humanity.
True. And please, don't say that that's communist, because in my country we have public healthcare and much, much more public shit (most of it could be removed) and we don't live ike soviets, not even close.
Did you have a heart attack? Ok, let me save you from dying, it's just a couple of hundreds of thousands of dollars
ok but you can't give EVERYONE in the usa a million dollar treatment cause that would cost more money than exists in the whole world, and frankly their aren't enough doctors, hospitals, and supplies to do it. so it's just not possible.
Does everyone in the USA have Cancer at the same time every year again? It's not like everyone will now turn ill all of a sudden.
Your argument doesn't make sense. Cancer treatment on average costs 10k a month and lasts less than 2 years. You've invented an extreme example to try and make an argument, but that example is too extreme for reality.
You also don't seem to grasp how a single-payer system reduces the cost of medical care. The current American system is a patchwork of smaller networks and services, creating costly inefficiencies and obscuring the cost of healthcare to most people. A single-payer system makes healthcare cheaper because these patchwork inefficiencies are removed, and the cost of health care supplies and services are standardized.
The cost of healthcare in the U.S. is much higher than in countries with single-payer, while healthcare outcomes are poorer. We spend more, for a system that fails more often. There are countries in South America and Africa that have health care stats in some areas which are better than ours.
Using the word entitled is a propagandist way to frame this issue. Are you entitled to drink from municipal water supplies in parts of the country where you don't pay taxes? Why not just privatize water and let those who can afford it pay for it? Why are you being forced to subsidize water for the poor? BECAUSE it would be inefficient, the service would be worse, those who could afford it would pay even more for it, not less, and water is needed to stay alive. Connecting it to one's income when we don't have to is inhumane and prioritizes profit over a country keeping its citizens alive.
One more time: Connecting (health care) to one's income when we don't have to is inhumane and prioritizes profit over a country keeping its citizens alive.
Are you willing to go against the jews? Health care costs so much because it got turned into a for-profit industry. Hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, doctors all have to be non-profit. The insurance industry as a whole has to become nationalized and non-profit. If you don't do this everything just becomes a variant of government subsidy which is just another form of corporate welfare. If you want free universal healthcare as a right you have to take the jew out of the equation, otherwise it is parasitism by yet another name
People always giving the "in my country" arguments without ever saying where their country is. If your country is racially homogenous you have no argument.
You are doing it again. You've created an extreme example to illustrate your point, but the example is too extreme for reality. You might as well say, we can't fly everyone to space all at once tomorrow, and that's why space exploration should be privatized. You are creating an outlandish problem, and then pointing out that it is unsolvable.
Also, a million per person is less than a billion dollars. We can totally afford that. It's not more money than exists in the whole world.
Also, if everyone in America had cancer requiring million-dollar treatments at the same time, healthcare costs would not be the problem. We would be more concerned with the total collapse of our economy because no one could go to work.
I mean, are you trolling? Let me make a similar argument. Listen, we can't just bury dead people for free. The land that graveyards are built on is expensive, caskets cost money to make. What if everyone in America drops dead tomorrow? Where are we going to get the money for caskets and grave digging?
Hahahaha. What's next, your going to tell me about how innovative bureaucracy can be?
You need to kill yourself.
Germany. 80% Germans 20% others.
So Hitler was worth more than money? How about Pol Pot? Himmler? Mussolini?
Efficiency isn't a binary. It should be obvious to you that some governments are more efficient than others. Some systems are more efficient than others. Efficiency is a scale. Clearly, it is possible for a government to create a healthcare system that is more efficient than ours because governments have done that.
If the word efficient is messing with you, try cost-effective, or cheaper. Single-payer is cheaper than the patchwork of subsidies and privatization we have now.
that's call taxes you retard
I don’t want to government having that much power over privately owned businesses.
I don’t give a shit if people die for it, too fucking bad. Governments worldwide have proven they are untrustworthy fucks that care absolutely fucking nothing about citizenry beyond using them as tax revenue and for votes/manpower.
Go fuck yourself if you even believe one iota that your government is different.
It’s not, numbnuts.
No, they weren’t.
yep they were.
bruh it's America, in Murican hospital a mint cost you 30 dollars
No, the point being made here is that human life is more important than money. The word "worth" is tripping you up. It can be difficult to conceptualize because money is a medium of exchange. In our system, EVERYTHING has a price tag on it, that's the purpose of money. What this person is saying is humans are an exception, they don't have a price tag.
I really give you props for actually arguing with these dude.Sorry if i lessen your argument by being polemic but i just can't stand arguing with people in a bad faith argument.
Like I said - is Hitler’s human life worth more than money?
Free what? Libya?
Humans have had a price tag on them since before the invention of barter - humans have always been property to another.
It starts with birth and never ends. Sure - you call it other things but the fact remains ownership is what it is. It will never change.
Correct, no his wasn’t.
This is your response to my explanation of efficiency as a scale? Did you click the wrong reply button?
When you say you don't want the government having THAT MUCH control over businesses, what do you mean? What specific control should the government not have?
It also sounds like your saying we can't trust the government to do right by us, but we can totally trust multinational corporations. I mean, if you were going to pick one of these entities to trust more, why would it be the corporations? The government at least has involvement from the population, is made up of its own citizens, exists to some degree to perpetuate the existence and security of the nation...the government has a vested interest in keeping the country running smoothly if nothing else than to keep itself in power.
Meanwhile, a business exists to make profit. No other drive is necessary. Remember when it was legal to chain children to industrial machinery and force them to work ten hours a day? Do you know why businesses did that? Because it made them a profit, and it wasn't illegal. If you really believe that the government cares less about you than privately owned businesses, then explain fire departments to me. Explain how countries with successful single-payer systems can even exist at all.
Your point of view seems to exist in spite of reality. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but your talking nonsense.
No, it doesn't. Your trolling. Stop.
I'd rather piss money on hippies than the 1%.
Your question doesn't make sense.
These two things have no equivalence. Hitler's life has no dollar amount of any kind attached to it.
Also, "worth more than money"? Are you talking about the concept of money itself? Again, your question makes no sense. It's similar to asking me why cocnuts don't believe in chemicals.
Some hospitals charge you over $400 for a "Mucus collection device"
You know. Kleenex. a box of fucking kleenex.
Don't argue with me, I was just clarifying the other person's point. Argue with him.
Also, how can people have a price tag before the invention of barter? I get what you're trying to say, but that doesn't make sense. Human lives were being traded even before trade existed? Huh?
Prove it. Show me a link.
Also, I wonder if that kind of ridiculous pricing has anything to do with healthcare being a for-profit business instead of a municipal service? Like, if what your saying is true, it only serves to support my argument about the high cost of healthcare in the U.S. as opposed to within well regulated single-payer systems.
Someone explain to me why europoors are obsessed with America?
Name a government that runs at a high efficiency - that everything is always repaired or maintained on time, payments are always prompt, problems dealt with in a timely manner, etc.
Now think about that and really think how stupid you’re proposal is trusting some of the most inefficient entities on the planet with creating an efficient system that will benefit everyone in a way that is fiscally sustainable.
Human ownership occurred before trading for things/money did.
you are a fucking moron, piss off
Spoiler alert; this sort of shit is only pushed by retards.
I live in a universal healthcare country, and only poor people and drug addicted losers use it, because its so shit.
Anyone with an ounce of self-respect, and who isn’t a throwaway of society has private health cover
Most jobs offer healthcare, you get screwed paying for your own
if everyone in America had cancer requiring million-dollar treatments at the same time, healthcare costs would not be the problem
Obesity and diabetes is a drain on healthcare already. I don't want to pay for someone else fucking up.
I had a surgery that cost me over $100k to repair a birth defect that was slowly killing me.
They gave me OTC pain medication for the post surgery pain management because I didn’t want any opioids - 2 ibuprofen tablets cost $100, which was covered by my insurance.
$6 for a bottle of 100 at a store, and 2 was $100.
I’m responding to his claim that human lives are worth more than money.
bruh people don't even want other people to pay for their bill, they just want the hospital charge what things are supposed to be charge, you know? not being charged 3000% above the global market price?
you pay for as much water as you use you imbecile.
I just don't believe you
The US people pay more because they are bearing the burden of medical research for the entire world
imagine believing they overcharge you for medical research
you have massive cuck potential
basic human right
So during caveman times, Grug was entitled to free amputations due to a sabre attack from the local shaman?
European union is already preparing to automation of food production and free food by making food production impossible without agricultural subsidies.
Come home, white boy.
now I want you to take a moment, look around your house, think about your future plans, and ask your self:
"am I really rich and retard enough to throw money to the 1% so they can fuck me harder in the ass?"
stop sucking that dildo stuck to your ass for a while and look around and you just may see how retarded you really are
What you define as a "vested interest" is not universal. You can't expect the government to take care of something on pair with privatley owned companies who generate profit.
I have wonderful health insurance, eurocuck. :)
lol. no. no one on the right wants gov healthcare you faggot.
stop lying and complaining about lies at the same time. it makes you look retarded.
speaking like a true cuck, always looping in denial, but you do you, keep telling yourself whatever you want
I feel like I've been less specific than I should have been and it's making my point confusing. For that, I apologize.
I'm just going to google efficient governments real quick...
Damn, turns out people actually study this. The World Economic Forum even puts out a list of the most efficient governments on earth. Finland is 3rd. And, unless I'm mistaken, they have universal health care, with satisfaction in the system putting them in the top five countries on earth.
Now, is that system perfect? No. It's a human endeavor, there will always be problems. Mistakes, accidents, corruption, that's the name of the game for humans. But, is it cheaper per capita than our system? Yes. Are the healthcare outcomes produced by that system better? Yes. Is it more efficient? It seems that way.
The way you talk, it seems like you have a viewpoint of how that world works and your holding onto it no matter what. I understand that changing your point of view can be difficult because it feels like rejecting a part of your identity. It feels like an attack. I know its hard, most people have a really hard time with it, but you need to push through that uncomfortable feeling and understand that your viewpoint does not match up with reality. The world simply DOES NOT WORK the way you believe it does. No matter how hard it will be to accept that and try to match your understanding to how things actually are, you need to do it.
Give ideas that you don't like, ideas that piss you off, a chance. Consider them. Google them. Get comfortable with the idea that no matter how sure you are, you might be wrong about things, even fundamental things.
assuming no one has health insurance in America
Get fucked bitches. $60 was cheap for ibuprofen.
I fucked lol
Human ownership occurred before trade? I used to trade my toys when I was a toddler. I traded pogs and pokemon before I was ten.
I think you might just be wrong. I'm pretty sure trade started happening before we were even fully human. If a monkey hands his buddy a fruit and gets a few nuts or a back scratch in return...
It seems like you might be wrong. And if not, I'm not sure either of us could prove our claim.
assuming I am assuming
burh of course muricin have insurance, but it's basically like adding lube so you don't hurt as much when getting fucked, it's still making you a faggot
Amerifag here, i pay 40 bucks for a doctors visit, i paid 200 dollars getting my appendix out, AMA
What country is that?
True, but what does that have to do with what I wrote?
I don't want to pay for someone else fucking up.
Basic economic and sociological science shows that if people support systems for others, their overall experience in life goes up even if they don't need those systems.
But here you are acting like a selfish little retard child.
You can take the money you save on insurance and buy plane fare to Namibia, OP. Everyone wins.
EVERYONE is going to get old and get sick. EVERYONE is going to have extensive experience within the healthcare system. Unless you get shot or stabbed or eaten by a shark or whatever, you're going to get old and need health care.
If we all need it, why shouldnt we all pay for it, espesially if it means a cheaper system with better outcomes?
my grandparents are old and don't pay much :o they have insurance hehe
You do that anyways. You already pay for them. The question is just how much.
So the entire world but Burguerland is in the wrong?
Guess you fags deserve your excuse of a president
The fact americans were so brainwashed into this stance shows how fucking devolved they are.
Too bad you don't live in a single-payer system with pricing controls for drugs. 100K all at once to avoid death sure sounds worse to me than a few percent increases in my taxes.
You seem to be arguing FOR single-payer at this point. Is that what you mean to do or am I misinterpreting?
literal retard, billions are spent daily in america treating the poor huddled masses who cant pay for shit, only to have them stumble in the next day drunk/drugged up for another round of free healthcare
only the middle class gets fucked thanks to the slow crawl of centralization, you fucking moron
Stfu europoor. We will blow you the fuck up.
Here is a guy that needed some free universal healthcare.
#1 superpower boy, take notes nigga
lol your owners have a superpower. You're just a slave working for one.
dont try to talk sense into these retards, they're clueless
the government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else
get a job you fuckin bum
I live in a small country that has universal health care, and I can confirm that you are fucking delusional. Most of our doctors work abroad due to this.
Bullshit, they drug tested people on welfare and it was another Republican waste of money, most people passed.
I live in a medium-sized country with universal healthcare, and it works fucking fine.
Last I checked Trump is still taxing you, he just wastes them on the military and a useless wall.
I hope one day America just blows europe up, the whole entire place. they'd be friggen cool
That's called a illustrative point you mongoloid.
Nah, republicans are different from tax-and-spend democrats.
Republicans just borrow and spend. Trillion dollar deficit woooo
Is it? Why and how come you think it is? What gives you the right of someone else's medical experience as a right? I agree it should be affordable. But what makes you think you are entitled to medical care?
inb4 legal rep
Legal rep makes sense in a country because of laws.
You already have that part.
The question is just how to pay for it.
medium size country
Well look at gdp per capita, of course it works for smaller countries, that are more homogeneous. But america is way more diverse not just racially but ideologically
Healthcare is not a human right because you are forcing people to pay for other's medical treatment. If anything, it is theft.
I really want to die from a treatable medical condition to protect some stupid fantasy of American freedom
I dont agree with MC4A because.
1) we have to break up big pharma and their poisoning of citizens and the sellout doctors
2) Americans have to lose weight and become healthy because the strain from all the fat fucks would cause the country to go into massive debt.
3. The military industrial complex would have to be broken up, but I'd rather pay off the national debt, then move into affordable and cheap, not free, medical care.
You understand, they have to treat you right? You delusional eurocuck.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion even if it's wrong.
That doesn’t mean you can afford cancer treatments
I'm owed someone's labor because I'm too much of a piece of shit to take care of myself.
You are aware most medical problems are self inflicted due to unhealthy lifestyles like being fat.
No, you don't. Do you really believe that the fraction of a cent you pay per gallon of municipal water covers the cost of collecting, cleaning, distributing, building and repairing and updating infrastructure, and so on?
Municipal water is paid for with tax money. The few bucks a month you pay from your water bill is a drop in the bucket. Taxes build and support this system.
If you had to pay directly for water on a need to use basis, you would lose all the economic advantages that come from the scale of the system. Your water service would be worse, and it would cost far more. Just like healthcare being worse and costing more when we pay for it as individuals instead of as a collective.
Your confidence in your position comes from ignorance of the size of this pool of information and how little of it you have a handle on.
You don't even know what you don't know.
Healthcare requires work
Free work from others is called slavery
No one owes you anything.... but you already knew this. Nice bait. :)
You won't get any of those without a source of market power. Currently, the market power is in the hands of the providers, while the consumers don't really have a choice to opt out. With mc4a, the market power switches to the state, which has a monopsony on buying medical care from providers. This power is what you need.
Otherwise, none of that is ever going to happen.
That's an interesting idea, but I'm going to dismiss it, because you provide no support for it.
Who told you this? Where did you hear this?
The healthcare providers are still paid, retard
I live out in the country and we pay for our own water, which is fucking cheap. What shit part of the country do you live in where you get it removed from your taxes and pay on top of that for shit service?
Mine is actually decent, and compete with others. Fuck, what are you from Flint.?
What's stopping anyone from affording cancer treatments through private insurance
where do you think your taxes go to? you are already paying for yours, other people's and government's fuck ups, stop being delusional
There should be some government oversite, not complete government oversite or you'd end up like flint. The medical cabal does have to much power and should be split up, given to other companies where they can compete with each other. I've had medical experiences in Canada (holy shit it's like 2 steps above prison) and Germany (decent but the lack of choice was fucked)
Enjoy getting fucked by African "Migrants"
they are trying to fit their narrative.
fuck america! and stuff!
that's why you have competition to lower the price and increase quality of service. I'm not at all a libertarian but free markets not only create wealth but provide services where quality and availability determine price. In other countries like south korea, the government forces the telecom companies to compete, which means they get top of the line service for dollars a month.
Healthcare is a right because we have the infrastructure to support it. The only reason not to treat it like a right is to profit off a population that has no choice but to consume your product or die.
Which kills more people, immigrants or cancer
So you want to keep dreaming in fantasyland. Got it.
That's something I think we can all agree with
Are you retarded? Do you even have the slightest idea how taxes work?
So that's the end of your argument? A weak low level insult. Oh boy what a um..rebuttal. it's called elections and voting. I know weird and crazy concept.
Yes. I pay them, used to pay state then I moved to one with out state taxes. Do you not know how the market works?
i paid 300 dollars for a surgery and pay 40 dollars for checkups, amerifag here, AMA
It's not happening. You can keep dreaming about it, but it'll literally never happen - the whole reason being that the healthcare providers have too much power. Politicians don't want to touch that, because guess who donates to them.
i recently realised that this is the main barrier for americans realising that they're being screwed by their government. they think that if they had to pay taxes for socialised healthcare that they'd still be paying fucking unbelievable prices for everything. but every country that actually had socialised healthcare pays less in taxes than americans do in taxes + medical insurance. you're all being ripped off because private companies are jacking up their prices to an insane degree. if the government was the primary customer for healthcare, the mark up would be far, far less.
Again. Heres a crazy concept. You vote for the people who want to change it. Sort of crazy I know. Local elections are the easiest to influence and directly impact you, you can vote for laws that affect your county specifically
poor people should just pay for shit themselves. fuck them. just because they have no money doesnt mean everyone else has to throw money at these monkeys who waste it on stupid shit
Ah yes i love having to pay 800$ dollars in insulin to live
Too bad i didn't took care of myself when i was on my moms womb.
You vote for the people who want to change it.
You better run yourself then, because you're up against corporations who very much don't want that to happen, and they can afford to spend a lot to support your opponent.
Local elections are the easiest to influence and directly impact you, you can vote for laws that affect your county specifically
yeah that'll show Pfitzer.
Maybe you should get better insurance or work for a company that provided competitive copays. Oh wow how crazy
You probably have no job or anything, you're also larping.
Just usa pays a lot, other countries like in south America with mostly privatized medical treatments pay less and they are not obligated to pay for it.
They pay a lot because other reasons not because those are private institutions.
I feel like I can expect that because many governments already do that.
The PRIVATE healthcare system of the United States is worse than the PUBLIC systems of many other countries. Objective reality stands in opposition to your argument. There are governments that are already doing the things that you're telling me governments can't be expected to do.
Did you miss my example of children chained to machines? Companies have no other purpose but to make a profit. Its the whole point of a company. Companies will sell poison to people if the government allows it. There are endless examples of companies doing or selling something that hurts or kills people or damages their environment in the name of profit.
Why is insulin in the U.S. so expensive? Why does dialysis have such bad outcomes? Why has the cost of epinephrine exploded in the last decade in the U.S. but not elsewhere?
It's not about keeping people alive. It's not about improving outcomes. Its the set of circumstances that results in the greatest difference between income and spending. That's the only criterion considered unless the government steps in and regulates.
Why can't you insulate houses with asbestos anymore? It worked great, it was cheap, what happened? Oh right, the government outlawed it because it kills people. When tobacco companies found out their product kills people at an astounding rate, did they change their business? No, they hid the evidence, hired people to lie about it, and kept on making as much money as they could. I mean, I don't hate businesses or capitalism, but I also have no illusions about how these systems and entities operate.
Come on man.
America sure is popular what the heck? I always see threads about them
You should google "conservatives for universal healthcare". Then, maybe read a little.
I mean, why are you so confident in your position when it's completely wrong? Where does that confidence come from?
I actually floated the idea of running but I honestly have too many character flaws that are easily weaponized. You really cant be a weird sex cult and run for local office. Might not affect their bottom line but it's a start. Make a law that says the county you are in have to have competitive copay or any cooperation that sells medicine or pills have to do it at a competitive rate. Also you can make a law that can remove money out of doctors who actually get paid to push certain prescriptions on clients illegal
Socialists don't realize the immense number of people in America on a form of govt assistance that not even Sweden is at yet and we call them cucked and doomed. We spend an incredible amount of money just to deal with our minorities, police, medical, section 8, welfare, entire systems running billions of dollars just because niggers.
We simply can't have universal healthcare.
You hear it here folks.
Diseases are just a fabrication of Eurofags and shitty countries that want to take America down with their socialist shit.
Pay the price. You need a job that provides decent insurance man!
Maybe a couple of billions less in the military?
It's been decades since World War 2 and the future of warfare is technological cold wars anyways.
You don't need 300 heatseeking destructo canon laser tanks on these days.
I'm moderately healthy and i live in a shithole country with free healthcare.
what are the other reasons?
The USA sells military equipment, you just don't know what you're talking about.
Then just say "let them die".
If that's your position, own it. Man up and advocate for those who can't afford to live to be left to die.
i would go on the right, in any given situation.
And when you work, keep all. Work under the table. Fuck the government.
Tell you what, admit minorities are a bigger problem than money going towards engineers building advanced military equipment.
None of them do.
Your country not working well for you doesn't mean that it couldn't. Plenty of countries do work well.
Seriously, this system already exists and works in many countries. It's clearly possible. Why do people still act like its not?
People still think America is a real place
My ex girlfriend got rejected entry from state funded ER last year because she “wasn’t dying” and “we only see people who are dying” she just needed fucking x-rays and the hospital was closest.
She had a note from her doctor as to why she was seeking x-rays.
What’d ya know we went to a private emergency room, got seen to in 10 minutes. Paid $10. No bull shit excuses from nurses.
It was illegal for the nurse to turn her away from a public ER.
Pls Colonel McDickTard.
Educate me in USA's expenses.
If USA is winning money with the military then why the living fuck aren't they drowning in cash atm?
Free Universal Healthcare
irrelevant europoor spotted.
you still think you're a "human" and not a brain in a jar
I know you've been trying to break out for a while now. Please just accept the situation you're in, it will really make things easier for you in the long run.
I live in a country with 95% inmigrants so i can't talk about minorities.
There is no racism here though, we do have rampant cases of xenophobia (weird because almost no one belongs to this country anyways).
You're not fooling anyone buddy, no one believes a country as retarded as America could ever actually exist
So what? How does that matter? Your race and ideology doesn't affect how you pay taxes or receive access to health care in a single-payer system.
Also, CANADA. Racially, culturally diverse. Universal healthcare. Seems like diversity doesn't hurt it....somehow.
The same as free universities.
It's not free but its easily affordable.
But would you agree that MERICA!! FUCK YEAAAH!! existed in the past?
#1 supoerpower boy. We will imperialize europoors like you and make them our slaves.
That's all of taxation then. Forcing people to pay for others. Its theft.
It's fine if you believe that. But we need taxation to operate our societies, at least for right now.
Please don't vote.
I can't believe Burgers have to pay for the freedom from foreskin. FREE DICK DOCKING FOR ALL
Can't provide basic healthcare to population
See the contradictions?
in-groups and out-groups. it's how we define ourselves. the human brain is still mostly monkey based; google anything about basic social psychology and suddenly all human conflict makes sense. we just want to be part of a group (in-group), and we have a habit of defining that group in part by how it is different from another group (out-group). part of our own individual identity is drawn from our opposition to people that are different from, even among the most arbitrary lines.
that's literally all there is to it.
le taxation is theft argument
it is though isnt it? by strict technical definition I mean.
No, they aren't. I know that's a common viewpoint, but it's just not true. Most medical problems are based on age and accidents followed close behind by cancer. A LOT of people get cancer. Almost EVERYONE gets old or dies in an ACCIDENT.
Just google it, man.
I guess in the end that saying of "Imagine how smart is the average person and then realize that half of the people is dumber than that" hurts more the more thought you give it.
le ACKHUALY IT TECHKNICALY IS argument
Regardless of what words strictly mean its clear you are using some half assed definition to empower your shitty argument.
Like those retards who say that anything above 2 persons casualty is a mass murder.
what the fuck did you just say you mass murdering thief?????
Your taking it to an extreme, hes not saying all poor people should die stop putting words into his mouth you retard. We dont need free health care most people are insured through the companies they work for. If someone's disabled and cant work I can understand them getting free health coverage but it will get abused by bums who are to lazy to go out and earn a paycheck
the problem with the american healthcare system is there aren't enough medical staff. I would like to have a happy median by saying we should subsidize the cost of higher education that we have a shortage of, and then we just let the free market decide price. We then break up big pharma and allow large amounts of animal research on animals such as pigs and chimpanzees.
By the way, for $100 a year, I go to Sam's Club and get up to five generic medications for free without using my health insurance. If it was less financial risk to go to medical school then there would be more doctors, american healthcare would actually behave like what american healthcare is suppose to be and the price would be less
Did I say anything about bad service? Don't pull nonsense out of your butt and act like it came from me.
My water bill is around two-tenths of a cent per gallon and my tax burden is about $100 a year.
If your spending less, good for you. I'm not knocking the water system, it kicks ass. Its cheap, reliable, and provides a basic human need for the citizens of the most advanced country on earth.
Unlike our healthcare system.
The gubmint stole me money and only gibs me roading, police and education in return. MUH LITERAL THEFT
Niggas in Africa ain't got clean water and this bitch wants free viagra
Income being too low to afford insurance.
That's not how free works
ok then how many checkups per year are you entitled to then? if somone has a tummy ache can they spend an hour getting blood tests at the doctor? the point is their is not limit to ho much medical attention one person can use over their life, and unless a third the population is doctors you cannot do it.
You need to pay for my healthcare because I'm too lazy to
the unemploymed europoor exclaimed with joy
First off. Nice trips.
Secondly, a lot of health issues and problems are caused by obesity and unhealthy lifestyles. That's an actual fact. Not just fat people but old people are also a drain to the Social security as well as Medicare.
you realize you get insurance with ANY full time job. Additionally, you get up to something like two months of unpaid absence guaranteed by the federal government for extreme illness.
I'm too lazy to
To bother finishing a sentence?
Our healthcare system is fucked because of the government not giving more power to local municipalities and by having enforced state oversight but allow doctors to be paid by pharma companies. One of the few areas I actually agree the government should be in and regulate is how big pharma buys off doctors which doctor malpractice is like number 4 for preventable deaths to americans.
Competition is often more expensive than mergers and stable markets. We've been dealing with that since before the civil war. Its why the U.S. has antitrust laws. Plenty of companies "win" in their sector and prevent new competition from gaining a foothold. They take control of a market and are no longer beholden to market forces because their customers have no alternatives.
The free market does not always self-correct.
Also, in some areas, like medical care, education, prisons and so on, the drive to profit doesn't always lead to better service and instead leads to draining of limited resources from a population that has no choice but to seek out your service. Often, the people end up commodified and "sold" from one sector or service to the next. It's dangerous to allow the profit motive to be connected to certain systems.
Please see for-profit prisons for a really obvious and direct example.
The free market is not compatible with all goods and services.
I work at starbucks part time while going to school..they provide pretty good health care coverage
Fuck off and die
Direct impact doesn't mean a large impact. Often the opposite.
I admire your optimism, but the U.S. government is very corrupt, and the election system is a big part of that. It does not work good.
Someone never learned to diagram sentences
Alright, europoors lets wrap this up
I think I've got a different insight on government. I went from californian government to Texan. I gotta say the lack of it I enjoy and is probably why I am optimistic about it because texans distrust them to the point it is hard for laws to be passed without a combined effort instead of being able to just change laws whenever
No human being deserves anything you earn what you get commie faggot.
And how much of your check goes to taxes?
Sounds like things would have been fine if those nurses had let her come in like they were supposed to.
I live in California. If I want to pay for my own x-rays its $5,000. I'm not exaggerating or making things up. That's how much it costs.
$10 for x-rays? I wonder if that private emergency room benefits from a centralized system? Price controls? Subsidies?
Seems like your system might be better. I notice your girlfriend didn't go home with a bill for 5k and 90 days to pay it before collections start harassing her.
Cheer up, you've got it good.
Sorry about the whole place being on fire though.
And then what are you going to do when nobody wants to become a doctor? That's what happens in countries that nationalize healthcare.
Please pay for my health insurance asshole
The stryas forgot to mention it takes 5 years to see a doctor.
"A lot" isn't most. Not even close. Most people die in accidents, get old, or get cancer.
Obesity and diabetes makes universal healthcare too expensive is propaganda. It's just not true.
either way people are required to have healthcare. and the more people in the company the more benefits you can get as they buy in bulk.
This so much this. A jizz mopper makes the same as a brain surgeon.
And if a certain operation is literally impossible for modern medicine? Is free healthcare still a "basic Humanright" then? Does the government owe you an operation that cannot be performed? You fucking dumbass. How about if you live in an area with no government. How do you get the "basic Humanright" of healthcare then?
That meme is so fucking me. Happened to me the other day.
heart disease is THE number one cause of death in the usa on it's own.
but that's the crazy part, even smart people seem to fall prey to these simple mental faults. it's like the classic optical illusion. the line one, like:
doesn't really work when the characters are the same size, but i'm sure we've all seen this one drawn out with solid lines. even if you measure the two lines and can confirm with certainty than the lines are the same length, the one with the ends pointing out still LOOKS longer. a psychologist who has been displaying this optical illusion for decades would still be forced to say "yeah, the top one looks longer."
our human tendency towards discrimination is the same thing. the most rationally minded person on the planet might still have these caveman urges to trust or mistrust a person based on the most arbitrary of reasons, but the trick is recognizing those urges, and acting against them. you might always look at those lines (again the text ones don't work as well) and think they look like different lengths, but the only way to be certain is to measure them, and act based on that information no matter what your brain tells you.
When will eurocucks stop being jealous.
This madness has to stop.
Unemployment is at an all-time low in addition to what you said.
Yet, somehow, a lot of people remain uninsured. They either die or drain the social safety net which drives up medical costs for everyone.
Maybe the system still isn't very good. Maybe we have examples of better systems all over the world and we should just adopt or adapt them.
Also, hell yeah its illegal to fire me if I get too sick to work for a few months. Awesome. I'm so gratefull.
Often times you don't even get what you earn.
Free Universal Healthcare
in a capitalist society
Way to kill an entire sector of the free market industry. Human Rights are a LARP, you're only entitled to what you can take and protect yourself.
To both sides in this thread... Who pays the doctors to perfom these "free" services?
Medical school is a quarter million dollar investment almost anywhere and that only covers undergrad and med school. What about the 2-4 years where you're in debt and working below scale to get on the job training during residency? Do you really want a neurosurgeon working on you for "free"? Hell, I don't even want a wart removed for "free"! Or are you guys intending on sending people to med school by force then using force to make the doctors work for "free"? How's this work if it's not a for-profit model?
free market industry
ok amerifag. real capitalist countries understand that not every single aspect of human existence needs to be monetized. there's a difference between capitalism and straight up exploitation.
you want to give birth and continue the existence of the species? oooh, that's gonna cost ya.
Actually, eurocuck. I was born and it did not cost my mother anything.
Free Universal Healthcare
its only free because of grownups who have jobs pay huge taxes, when you grow up and have a job and dont have any medical problems, and can barely afford to pay your bills, then you have to pay a third of your $10/hr for some niggers health insurance, you will feel differently about "free" healthcare
Sounds like a socialist cuck
Um heart disease and cancer caused by obesity are number 1 and 2 killers of Americans. And yes it would.
I doubt it's really the eurocucks. They chilled out with the murica hating around the time the middle east/africa invaded their little countries in force. My money would be on the third world south american countries just discovering the internet.
Europoors, you need to understand you have a problem. It is not healthy being this obsessed with a country. Use that free healthcare and get your brains checked.
That's why it you monetize, you put checks in place to make prices affordable. Up until last year doctors were essentially banned from telling consumers the prices of drugs before treatments. Now they're obligated to do so and as a result prices will drop from people refusing them.
I understand your point, but you're exaggerating. Let's pick a country and use the internet to learn about it real quick. I'm picking...Germany. Lots of people bitch about Germany. Great healthcare outcomes, but the system is complicated and hard to understand.
Average German Phys: 123K a year. About a 3rd less than American doctors make. So, dollars to dollars it looks like these guys are getting screwed.
But, in the context of the German economy, they do very well. They don't have the massive student debt burden that American doctors have to deal with. The system incentivizes them to work more closely with patients and ensure the quality of care, meaning less money spent on malpractice issues, which is a huge problem in the U.S. Also, despite a dollar for dollar lower salary than American doctors receive, German doctors are still the highest-paid professional group in their country. In other words, they don't make as much, but the economy overall is smaller so they still end up being some of the wealthiest people.
You see how, instead of believing what I've been told by my friends or learned from the T.V. talking heads, I just went and looked into it myself? Thats how you learn stuff, so you can have an informed opinion.
Seems like Brain Surgeons do alright.
Overall, yeah. But split by age group, not always.
Instead of asking randos in a thread on Sup Forums, ask google how the medical system works in countries with free health care. Its all there, go and discover it.
Free universal healthcare does not work
Because I can say all that in one simple image.
Your dubs are nice but. Again you wait 5 years for an x Ray. Money motivates people. Know that youtubeuniversty holder. Nigger. Also explain to me why everyone comes to the USA for competent doctors nigger
and maybe if people could regularly go see their doctors for checkups, oh, every year or so, then there would be much fewer negative health outcomes because preventative treatment is cheaper and easier than waiting until somebody absolutely needs to go to the emergency room, and problems are cheaper and easier to treat if caught sooner.
So, y'know, if people didn't have to pay to go to a doctor, they would see the doctor more, be healthier, cost fucking less to take care of, reduce the burden on doctors, nurses, and emergency services. And it just so happens, that's the kind of behavior that reduces long-term risk of diseases like obesity or heart disease, since you prevent more people from getting sick, and treat them sooner when they get sick. But you can't have any of these great benefits in a for-profit system, because the behavior of consumers is very different from the behavior of citizens.
Nigga did you just call yourself autistic?
good for you; that is no longer the norm in america and pretending like it still is doesn't benefit anyone.
You've created an extreme example to illustrate your point, but the example is too extreme for reality
Also, a million per person is less than a billion dollars
i dont think you understand how numbers work, bernie
the us population is 327 million people
that just a little over a billion(1,000,000,000) kiddo
pic not related
ITT yuropoors worrying about the USA.
? It is if you have good insurance lol
what if a solution to the problem is literally impossible such that nothing you say or do could possibly change it
wow what a great argument against a general case, you are a skilled rhetorician, I truly cannot refute the simple fact that impossible things are impossible
you only have rights, which are social constructs, because other social constructs exist upon which those rights are reliant
wow dude you sure are blowing a lot of minds here, your high school civics teacher much think you are very clever and advanced
Human life has a cost. It doesn't matter if you measure the cost in terms of physical things like food, water, or housing, or if you measure them in terms of skills or labor such as doctors, or in terms of money.
as a result prices will * drop from people refusing them
there are still so many more problems with the american healthcare model. one example off the top of my head is how only one company is legally allowed to produce insulin. as in, the thing diabetics need TO CONTINUE LIVING. how many diabetics do you see refusing treatment just because they were told the cost up front? when it's pay up or die, people are going to pay. unless they can't, of course, in which they die. which has happened, is happening, and will continue to happen in america.
Nah, it's not. Every human has the right to segregate their labor and charge what they want for their services
NOPE. The PDF outlining the CDC's data on death stats doesn't even mention obesity being related to heart disease or cancer. I know its a factor, but according to the CDC, which studies these things as its whole purpose for existing, it, not a large enough factor when faced with other, more relevant ones.
Put simply, yes obesity can lead to heart disease or cancer, but the vast majority of these diseases have other primary causes.
Also, Great Britan has universal healthcare and a population with a high rate of obesity. Somehow, these two things are able to exist simultaneously. Its either some kind of miracle, or black magic, or a child's wish or...
or you're wrong.
Unemployment is at an all-time low in addition to what you said.
Unemployment doesn't just go down when people GET jobs, it also goes down when people ACTIVELY STOP LOOKING and just cease being employed. So some of the people involved in such a statistic did not actually find jobs, and so it's not a great statistical indicator that the economy is working well for people in general.
Yet, somehow, a lot of people remain uninsured. They either die or drain the social safety net which drives up medical costs for everyone.
Because another reason employment has been going down is that many of the jobs which have been created are shitty, part-time McJobs that only offer part time hours, and thus offer vastly reduced benefits. So, the fact that people are working such shitty jobs that don't give them adequate health care also shows that low unemployment is not a great statistical indicator that the economy is working well for people in general.
Maybe the system still isn't very good. Maybe we have examples of better systems all over the world and we should just adopt or adapt them.
DING DING DING OH BOY KIDS WE HAVE A WINNER
welcome to the conversation. here's your starter fact: a lot of americans working full time jobs cannot afford "good insurance". solve this problem now please, just don't mention the government helping them or people will get mad. also don't suggest forcing private companies to increase the minimum wage; people don't like that either. also private landlords reducing rent is a no-go. maybe doctors charging less? oh wait, they seem to charging more year on year, far outstripping the rate of pay increases...
well, i'm sure you personally can figure it out. someone definitely did die because of this problem today though, and will tomorrow. so... you know, time is a factor.
Do you just reflexively write ethnic slurs as you type? Is it like Tourettes or something?
Cite me a source on this wait five years claim. I flat out don't believe you.
1st, nice red.dit spacing you fucking nigger
2nd how much is your taxes over there in noguns land?
But they do pay to go to the Dr, unless they don't work and then someone else is paying for it. There is nothing in life that is free.
Healthcare is a basic Human right
such BS. you have no right to it. if we didn't have science there would be no fucking healthcare you fucking dults.
wat even the fuck is text to speech
youre a dipshit
Damn. You got me. I was wrong. Not about the example being too extreme for reality of course. Just the math part. My bad.
its only free because of grownups who have jobs pay huge taxes
its almost like you shouldnt rest the burden of social services on your individual citizens, and instead tax, say, groups of individuals who disproportionately profit off of your nations' resources? Like, if instead of taxing the income of workers, you could tax...I don't know, is there somebody who can be taxed, additionally, to pay for things? Is there some group that does not produce through their own labor, and is not struggling with subsistence wages or a difficulty feeding their family? IDK who the fuck those people are but maybe they should pay some goddamned taxes instead of me and my neighbors.
That's one of the few that slips through the cracks, more so in the past but still prevalent now. It would help if the government could buy the patents and give grants to companies to produce such things. Leaving the entire healthcare industry in the government's hands is just plain idiotic, it should be limited to life-saving medications and they already handle vaccines that way.
Again, I was clarifying someone else's point. Argue with them.
i was making a comedic correlation between their dipshittery and your dipshittery, hopefully you smiled when you read it
no asshole, pay for you own goddam heatlhcare or gtfo, dont force me to pay for it
It’s not a human right because no one is responsible for any other adults, period. You could even argue because of safe harbor laws, you’re not even responsible for children anymore either.
If only there was a group of people, known to be severely under-taxed, who could be taxed INSTEAD OF YOU AND I in such a way which we could both get the services we need
Back in the old days, we used to call "Reddit spacing" paragraphs. It was a nifty way to organize our writing to make communication clearer.
I live in Cali, and I own guns. Also, my grammar doesn't make me seem like a 9-year-old with a learning disorder. I bet you could google that taxes question though. The internet is a wonderful thing.
you're getting it backwards, the insulin thing was never a problem until recently, and year on year it's getting worse. the system is going backwards, getting more harmful towards citizens who rely on it, instead of the opposite. these aren't cases that "slip through the cracks" they're new cases that are becoming the norm. this is they the system is designed; profit over people, always.
your missing the entire point, pay your own way, fuck off with being a mooch
Why are you gay
So you reflexively use ethnic slurs when you talk? Then it is Tourette's? Let me know if it is, I don't want to make fun of someone with a mental handicap.
Also, wheres that citation?
I just felt bad about being wrong.
You can't make a product into a right without slavery.
So, yeah, sure, let's teach them niggers to be doctors.
one sentence does not make a paragraph
USA will be Namibia when you Illuminati loving, Jew hating, public school educated Millennials get one of your nutty Luciferian Democrats over the Electoral College Finnish line.
Uh, money literally isn't real, it's an idea we made up. Sure, there's nothing in life that's free, because "free" and "cost" are entirely socially constructed human ideas.
So if you say that no health care is free, because it inherently consumes some amount of resources, and we have attributed particular values to different resources, yeah, sure. That's accurate.
But it's almost as if, as social creatures, we have adapted to evolve larger social structures that can perform broadly pro-social tasks, such that the quality of life of all humans goes up, and we collectively benefit from that...
Unless it is in the cases where medicine needs to be synthesized from something expensive in the first place, there's no reason we can't use the necessary resources to give what is necessary to everybody, unless we specifically decide we should not do that. If we say "it's too expensive," all that means is we are deciding it is not worth it, in the abstract, to pay for peoples' health. It doesn't mean we can't do it. It means we've decided it's unimportant to do it.
If we decided that we wanted to improve the system, it would be cheaper and better. But, some people are dead-set on not improving the system, which makes it more expensive, which fuels their cyclical argument that we need to privatize it because it isn't working. They just starve the system of the necessary resources as their justification for why it can't be afforded. But there are fucking shithole countries out there that afford it just fine. We can afford it. We just aren't willing to pay for it, because some people have digested enough logical fallacies and shoddy philosophy in the last few decades to willfully misunderstand the very nature of the human being, and how we got society to the point it is at in the first place.
Then move to Namibia.
insulin was never a problem until recently
exponential population growth coupled with increasingly poor diets are encroaching on an already limited supply
It was always inevitable, it's not backwards it was just fucked from the start when the patents weren't sniped by the government. Off-brands can't even make it past the FDA approval process because Big Pharma shits on any new start ups in court for years.
US has major issues but it is uhh quite developed
based and redpilled
No moron, it's not something that's just made up. Cash simply a buffer or a cache for value created for things that cannot be traded.
Example: a farmer has food, but an aerospace engineer has what? Nothing immediately valuable for the farmer.
God you're dumb.
Brother, I live in a civilized country, where we have basic human rights. Maybe if you valued yourself more as part of a larger community, instead of drinking your poisonous American pop philosophy about how great and special you are, you'd understand that every human civilization that has made any advances worth a damn has at some point collectivized the resources of the people to provide for them at a cheaper rate.
Nobody is calling for tankie fuckin' commie shit. Nobody wants to fundamentally change the economic system. Just want people to maybe not die for being born too poor to live. But, your toxic philosophy of radical individualism and complete shedding of any social responsibility has you literally fixated on what you "own" and what is "yours."
I like owning shit, and I have plenty of shit. But you don't truly own anything but your damn body. Anything can be taken from you. That's the whole point of having a fucking society; so that we can't be exploited by the disproportionately powerful, and so we benefit from collectively-invested resources.
Feel free to live your Randian fantasy of being a perfect ubermenschen island living alone in a log cabin in the woods with all your money. But when they wolves come, you'll have no kin or country to call, because you were brainwashed by consumerist bureaucrats
Cost is a law of physics. All things have a cost, you get nothing for free.
imagine being so brainwashed by mcdonalds and fucking wal-mart that you casually commodify your own body, mind, and existence into purely consumerist constructs, to the extent that you can understand no human archetype for yourself beyond being a "consumer"
... radical individualism... radical.. lol
Imagine being so stupid that you're hanging onto a failed Philosophy from 170 years ago. Owning the means to production, that is a product. Own the product. Own what we create. Stop being so dumb
exactly, and yet calling for stricter regulation and a more fair system is automatically shot down as "socialist" and therefore evil
Cash simply a buffer or a cache for value created for things that cannot be traded.
Yes, that is, in fact, the definition of a fiat currency. I assume most people who graduated high school here can define it and understand how it works.
That doesn't change the fact that it is not a concrete metric of value, and in fact, requires some level of group consensus to determine its worth, by nature.
So my point stands: There's no leg to stand on in terms of saying we literally cannot afford to make health care a reality. We are, excluding aforementioned scenarios where there is a genuinely prohibitive material cost or scarcity, always deciding that we do not want to spend the money. Most of the resources required are not naturally expensive - in fact, the system is DESIGNED to make money more so than it is designed to improve anybody's health, so is it any wonder you're paying more when you treat making money as the primary directive of care?
When will the eurocucks stop obsessing.. WTF?
when yall stop taking their bait
Yes, radical. Because I believe strongly in individualism, but not so strongly that I think that I literally owe nothing to society whatsoever, nor so strongly that I believe I am somehow capable of surviving independent of said society. To think you are above being taxed literally at all is pretty damn radical. Even most libertarians I've known agree that some level of government is useful for some level of services, so I'd consider somebody going full objectivist fantasy hero with an obsessive totaling of everything society is actively "stealing" from them to be fairly radical, indeed.
As of 2019 that is no longer according to the US Patent office and the United States Navy. Simple model of physics is Pase now.
Pursuant to the Maryland Public Information Act, I hereby request the following records:
Unclassified research involving Dr. Salvatore Cezar Pais, specifically relating to aircraft/spacecraft propulsion, high energy physics, gravitational wave physics, and compact nuclear fusion. Any research done pertaining to the rationale behind the application for/granting of the following patents:
imagine being so far to the right that you assume everybody who disagrees with you is a literal marxist
So many better examples in history prove you right. Who knew?
Cost is a law of physics. All things have a cost, you get nothing for free.
Holy fuck I forget that Americans are actually this brainwashed. I'm pro-capitalism for fuck's sake. I think capitalism is good in a lot of ways. But imagine being so fucked at the core cerebral level by pure hyper-capitalist propaganda that you honestly believe that capitalism is an inherent, material property of the universe...
There's "no leg to stand on" because you're ignorant as fuck.
Healthcare is a reality, we are having a single-payer system call Medicare and Medicaid oh, also the VA system, the government in the United States already pays two-thirds of all medical costs, but the single-payer system only covers one third of Americans.
There's a leg to stand on because the United States is the largest R&D industry in healthcare, in the world, and the rest of the world benefits from our discoveries. Medical patents are not protected worldwide, so the United States ice to make a profit from all the research, all the investment that was put forth.
United States also has the most Nobel laureates, including in the field of physiology, this is no coincidence, this would be a cost, this would be something we'd be willing to sacrifice... for you.
Calling for nationalization of the entire system is what is being referred to as "socialist", if people intend it to be for ONLY medications that are a matter of life and death I think others would be more receptive. Nationalization of healthcare kills more than it saves.
Maybe I would if I lived in a predominantly White nation. The only loyalty I have is to my family and race.
I'm a centrist, dumb fuck