Trump goes against grain for personal gain and says what he thinks

>Trump goes against grain for personal gain and says what he thinks
>standing ovation

>Cruz goes against grain even knowing he's committing political sudoku and says what he thinks
>gets booed off stage

Other urls found in this thread:

bloomberg.com/politics/videos/2016-07-21/pro-trump-super-pac-announces-first-advertising-push
politico.com/story/2016/07/trump-super-pac-donors-225892
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_asset
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_liquidity
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_attempts_and_victims_of_the_inner_German_border#Refugee_flows_and_escape_attempts
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Voting for liberty candidates up and down the ballot apparently means vote Hillary to these people.

>two people say what they think
>people don't like one person
What could've happened here?
How could this be possible?

Could it be that those two people have differing points of view and one is not favored by the people?

I'm getting sick of this fucking anti-realism shit in politics. No, not every opinion is equal. Not every stance is equal. Fuck off.

You're acting like conservatives aren't insufferable crybabies when they don't get their way.

>cruz adapts Trump rhetoric a week after its proven successful but doesn't have any intention of all in actually implementing it, lectures crowd he feels is mentally inferior even when they know exactly what he is doing, he and his shill life narrowly escape unharmed

DONT TED ON ME

Hi

This would make sense if Trump wasn't full of liberal schlock appealing to a room full of conservatives, only getting bonus points because he "says what he thinks". Cruz was the only one at the Republican National Convention to speak with the RNC's intentions in mind.

>if Trump wasn't full of liberal schlock
Not holding Christian values such as "we can't kill nigger babies!" and "we have to let everyone in the country because we're warm Christian people" is considered liberal schlock?

Giving hand outs to low income individuals, going back on your platform of not accepting Super PAC cash, abortion rights, transgender rights, supporting the LGBT community, saying we should "get rid of the confederate flag", a metric fuck ton of liberal economic policies, spending the vast majority of your life as a liberal and openly endorsing liberal politicians.

Yeah, that qualifies as pretty fucking liberal, it's to the point where the liberals can't really lose this election because both candidates are liberals themselves.

All I'm reading is
>Donald Trump is liberal because he doesn't appeal to MY religious morals

eat a dick, cuckservative. Nationalism is where it's at. Enjoy your night of the long knives, you fucking nigger lover.
>abortion is bad because it kills minorities and I need more minorities :(((

>gets BTFO
>lol jk it's okay to be a liberal!

I'm not even a liberal, fucking knee jerk spastic, neutralized retard. Wake the fuck up.

And not even a Republitard for that matter either. More evidence that for Trump supporters it's more of a middle school team battle than an actual debate. Get fucked cock sucking Trump cuck.

>gets BTFO
Not one bit, you fucking faggot.
You're endorsing Cruz for non-issues like faggot rights, tranny bathroom shit, and facebook issues like the confederate flag. Who gives a flying fuck, nigger?
What you're trying to say is that Trump isn't authoritarian. Not being authoritarian on social issues doesn't make you an evil librul.

Trump isn't a liberal where it matters, which is immigration. He's also a pretty fucking heavy nationalist and anti-establishment, which is where Cruz fails the most. Cruz bows to jewish banks and he'd probably have lost to Hillary on purpose had he gotten the nomination.

But by all means mate, if you think that Trump isn't conservative enough for you because he doesn't give a single flippant fuck about faggots, you're free to vote for Hillary "Pandering Cunt" Clinton. Those are the two choices you're given. Pick one or fuck off.

BASED CRUZ.
>BASED CRUZ.
BASED CRUZ
>BASED CRUZ.

Also why do you think I called you a liberal? Do you know what the night of the long knives is?

Who do you think died during the Röhm-Putsch mate?

I was hoping I wouldn't have to bring up fucking immigration issues because I thought it was evident enough, but I guess so.

It's interesting how his biggest platforms and the most campaign defining are probably some of the most absurdly asinine propositions I've heard of. I'm actually in favor of more controlled immigration across the southern border, just not pumping an absurd amount of money into into some concrete wall that the Mexicans will learn how to scale in about 2 or 3 hours. Employing increased security would be 10 times more effective and 10 times cheaper in the long run on combating illegal immigration. Oh yes, and there's nothing like just SAYING Mexico will pay for it and countering Mexican refusals of payment with the joke-tier "the wall just got ten feet higher." Jesus christ. His "ban Muslims" policy is so fucking ridiculous just on the notion that it would never get passed congress, but Trump supporters have their head so far up their asses that they think Trump is this end all ultimatum to all their problems when in fact congress has the last say in any bill that gets passed. Keep in mind all of this stuff I'm in favor of to some degree, but I think people are in the dark on how unlikely these measures are going to be passed.

So, congratulations! You got me! He's a conservative on the most idiotic of all political fronts, the fronts that have the least likely hood of ever happening, which the chances quickly dwindle to negligent after you actually look at the plan. You also conveniently forgot to leave out some key parts of my post like taking in Super PAC cash (instantly bought out), hiring Goldman Sach's financial advisors, and his shady past of being a liberal himself. As people said, it's a game of 4D chess and gullible retards keep falling for it, hook line and sinker, just like with Hillary, just like Obama. '

Get the fuck out of my face before I fucking demolish you, liberal faggot.

CUT MY LIFE INTO PIECES

oh boy a fucking idiot

>just not pumping an absurd amount of money into into some concrete wall that the Mexicans will learn how to scale in about 2 or 3 hours.
Pic related is the great wall of China. Pretty fucking tiny, huh?
How do you think this was supposed to stop the Mongols? You know they had ladders, right? They could've just climbed it.

Are the Chinese this retarded? No, you are. Walls are manned. That's the whole secret. A perfectly secure wall has lookouts within sight of eachother so no part of the wall can just be "scaled" or dug under.

The wall is a perfectly valid means (and proven too, look at Israel) means of keeping borders secured. Only a complete retard subscribing to anti-realist guesswork by uninformed or purposedly deceptive people would think otherwise after even just the shortest amount of research.

>Employing increased security would be 10 times more effective and 10 times cheaper
wow, you solved your own puzzle there. Good job.
>10 times cheaper
Mexico pays for the wall. Common knowledge by now.

Actually I've already answered two things I could've just said "check his website, he's got it all explained in the policies part" to. Give me one reason I should read the rest of your butthurt, misinformed, outdated shitpost of a Cruz shill tirade.

>signs pledge to support whoever wins nomination
>breaks his word and a signed document

not very christian or honorable

There is such a thing as charisma, tbqhwu senpai

is this pasta?

Someone please remake the flag with cruzs face and have it say dont ted on me

You lost Cruz get over it nerd.

You do realize the constitution gives the President power to limit any and all kinds of foreign immigration to protect the safety of citizens, right? Congress is irrelevent in this case.

I thought Cruzlims were all about MUH CAWNSTITOOSHUN. Go back to Church faggot.

he has to go back
to canada

...

>a perfectly built wall has look outs

Learn to fucking reading comprehension. I've already said that I'm simply for increased security. A trained human patrolling the border is far more effective than a concrete barrier. A 30 foot wall calls for a 30 foot ladder, the same way Mexicans get over the already present border fence.

>wow you solved your own puzzle there. Good job.

Give me a reason why I should continue this argument if you don't even know how to read.

>Mexico pays for the wall
Are you purposely being a fucking retard? I know cognitive dissonance hurts, but go back and read the post.

Bona fide, original. You can make it pasta though.

And, right on cue, the retard that brings up Title 8, Section 1182, unaware that this decision can easily be overridden by congress, as it has done in the past with Truman.

>Oathbreaking surely will go over well with people who value honor and rule of law!

I fucking hate you conservatives....and I think this election has shown me that.

>
Learn to fucking reading comprehension. I've already said that I'm simply for increased security. A trained human patrolling the border is far more effective than a concrete barrier. A 30 foot wall calls for a 30 foot ladder, the same way Mexicans get over the already present border fence.

No, they get over the present border "fence" (hardly more than a railing throughout most of the border) because it's unmanned.

The wall has the primary purpose of easily being manned.

Mexico pays for it, so there's literally no reason to have no wall vs having an easily staffed wall.

>Are you purposely being a fucking retard?
Tell me how Mexico isn't paying for the wall. Please. I'm begging you. Tell me how they'll build a non-US-reliant economy instead of doing it.

It was not the time, not the place. He should have declined instead, then said what he wanted to on his own platform, rather than sometime else's

How does Mexico pay for the wall?

Well, Trump supporters DO talk like monarchist an awful lot...

>they get over the current border fence because it's unmanned
Which is why I'm calling for increased security. A manned fence, as I've repeated numerous times.

>Mexico pays for it
Haha yes, implement trade tariffs and the whole nine yards, what a joke. Have fun dealing with the shit storm of the United Nations and the problems it will bring to our own economy. Nothing like just making non existent money just POOF into thin air. Logic of Trump fags, I guess.

You do realize Trump has already hinted at the concept of more or less a virtual wall instead of a physical one? His wall proposition was early in campaign, and my speculation is that it was hot air that he spouted because he didn't take it seriously, but now has to retract his punch because he knows it's unfeasible.

Alright, it's been real Trump fags. I got work in the morning, unlike you lazy pathetic sacks of liberal shit, so I got to get to bed, and also from the fact that it looks like the classic Sup Forums exchange of just repeating your dialogue 20 or 30 times. Adios!

Our cucked friend answered this for you: >trade tariffs

is the answer.

For his incoherent rant about non-factors that'll "totally make trade tariffs impossible even though there already are trade tariffs in place", just nod and call him a proper cunt.

...

Even if he implemented that, these costs would be borne by American consumers.

What, so what happened?

They could use the literal fucking billions that their economy gets from illegals in america sending back money

apt

And how are they going to administer that?

...

Tax all money transfers through western union and other methods from the US to Mexico for starters

Why do you deserve their money?

How exactly do you figure that?

Well Trump actually won, Cruz lost

So now that you admit Mexico will pay for it, you shift from
>how is it possible
to
>why is it ethical

literally moving the goalposts. Nobody discussed wether it's ethical.

And if you want the answer to your new goalposts, the US deserves the money because it's mexico that benefits from sending illegals over the border. They usually take care of Mexican families, meaning Mexico needs to be less of a welfare state while still functioning.

How do you know they're illegal?

>Be GOP nominee
>Actually believe in any principles

Pick one

>muh pledge

This was based as fuck and you all know it. He refused to bend his knee to the man who branded him 'Lyin Ted' and insulted his wife. I respect Ted Cruz infinitely more after watching this speech.

>How do I know wether illegals are illegal?
are you trolling now?

>Cruz goes against grain
That's a funny way of wording, "Honorless rat breaks oath."

It's not about shifting goalposts friend, I'm just genuinely curious.

Australia please. It's pretty fucking easy to know when someone is illegal. A key fucking clue is when they cannot prove their citizenship

Yeah, he sure showed Trump for calling him a liar! Who can doubt his honesty now?
As an accomplished lawyer, he's well aware that the best defense is to commit any crime you're accused of.

Can you prove your citizenship right now? Give me pictures.

In order of stupid points:

Israel's wall, cost 6.4 billion for it all using that model, 640 million would buy you a few thousand more men and nothing else (the increase wouldn't even get to 20%), so you can now have 14 instead of 12 men per mile. Aka, you are full of shit.

Congress would need to pass a law to stop him as that's a presidential authority to do. Barack already did it on a small scale on his own. So you are full of shit.

Link any superpac that made a contribution to Trump's primary race. Or better, show that his campaign wasn't mostly funded by loans. Again, you are full of shit.

Yes he hired them. One point about people working for him and thus on his dime.

Republican for 30 years, changing to democrat for 6 under bush. That sounds mighty liberal. Again, you are full of shit.

You won't demolish shit but whatever credibility you had.

I can prove my citizenship right now, I'm not going to prove it to a random shitposter online though. I have a state ID, social security number, birth certificate, numerous ways of proving my legal status.

look im not asking for much i just need your social security number

for reasons

I'm starting to see why people think Trump is against immigrants, period.
Apparently there are people who legitimately cannot grasp that there is a distinction between being in a country legally and illegally.

Do you seriously think it's just an arbitrary term or something? Do you not understand that immigration follows a specific set of rules set by the country you migrate to?

And pls stop with the "genuinely curious" bullshit because you're clearly trying to make a point here

okay you proved your point

can you give me your social security number now? i promise i'll give it back

Sup Forums censors SSNs automatically retard, same with TFN

*** *** ***

Hmmm, let's try it:
**********

True.
>Muh God Emperor
Cancer

That's cool, how doesnt it think it's just numbers?

334-67-4472

Mod please delete this!!

People are pissed about him putting his own political agenda first before the Republican party , you dumb fucking nigger.

7/10 bait, got a reply

Sage

Let me try:
867 530 969

dumb leaf

Fuck Ted Cruz.

I don't need a Canadian Hispanic pretending to be an American to tell me a fucking thing about freedom and liberty. The creepy motherfucker lost and should've taken it like a man.

Then again, he's a Canadian Hispanic so I don't know why anybody would be surprised.

he looked fat as fuck

sick of the "my dads $100" story too

I don't even know what he was doing there, his national aspirations are over

He'll get fatter, his hairline is becoming an issue and no one likes him

I thought you were in on the joke and posted a fake but apparently you're pretty damn stupid

I'm worried

Relax.

If you're honest about your feelings and you're a smarmy little cunt people will react negatively.

Honest Trump
>applause
Honest Ted
>Boos

is it so hard?

In order of your short sighted points

The Israel wall isn't subject to American red tape, thus resulting in astronomically cheaper construction, labor, and legal costs. Make it 5 billlion for a manned fence for I care, it's cheaper than a 40 billion faceless wall that would cost even more to patrol. You make 14 men per mile seem bad, but it's actually a person every 115 meters, the length of a football field.

You literally just mentioned Congress has the ability to do so. The Democrats don't like him, half of the Republicans don't like him.

>super pacs
bloomberg.com/politics/videos/2016-07-21/pro-trump-super-pac-announces-first-advertising-push
politico.com/story/2016/07/trump-super-pac-donors-225892

He already accepted (albeit small) cash during the primary run and has openly stated he is accepting cash on the general run to finance this billion dollar campaign despite apparently having his own reserves to invest in. That's the fucked up part, is the ONE candidate who can finance his own campaign choose not too.

>he hired them and they work on his dime
"It's okay when Trump does it"

He was a Democrat since childhood until 1987, and again from 2001-2009. He was a Democrat for 50 years out of a 70 year life, fucktard.

Thanks for repeating my OP post. You're really on the ball today, Nigel.

>wall costs
Mexico pays

Why do people keep obsessing over the cost when Mexico pays it?

> That's the fucked up part, is the ONE candidate who can finance his own campaign choose not too.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_asset
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_liquidity

He said "vote your conscience" which is congressional speak for "you don't have to vote by party lines". The delegates know this.

He was essentially insinuating that Trump is so "un-conservative" that they should vote Hillary or even third party instead.

>Mexico pays for it
How?
>implement trade tariffs
So the Mexican economy can crash and just encourage MORE people illegally immigrate? Yeah, ok kid.

You can beat around the bush, but I even gave him respect for not giving way to Super PAC's and having a candidate come in truly, 100% clean. Try to rationalize it all you want, but it was a sell out in his part.

>So the Mexican economy can crash
They won't crash, they can easily carry the cost of the wall. They US could too, but why pay it when Mexico can?

>> MORE people illegally immigrate? Yeah, ok kid.
You forgot the part where the wall is built to stop illegal immigration.

It's the problem that solves itself. If it was a problem to begin with, anyways.

> beat around the bush,
>rationalize
No, seriously, read up:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_asset
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_liquidity

Wait, hold on.

Mexico is going to pay for a wall that is most likely going to be built by Mexican laborers, to keep Mexicans out.

Why don't you just skip the wall and hire more security guards?

Sage

This is a push come to shove scenario.

>Mexico doesn't pay for the wall and it doesn't get built and no trade tariffs are implemented
Pretty much same thing happens as it does now. Illegals get in, both economies remain relatively stable for the time being.

>Mexico gives in and pays for it, and it gets built
Probably the easiest option for everyone, but Mexican leaders have adamantly stated that they wont as it's just a sign of weakness and giving yield to unwarranted pressure. Say all you want, but illegals will still get over, as you're severely underestimating how badly people want to get in. A tunnel 200 feet under ground, 40 foot ladders, go around the coast, you name it. It will probably dampen the illegal immigration a fair bit.

>The US pays for it
Pretty much the same as the prior scenario except we sign the paycheck

>The US doesn't pay for it, Mexico refuses to pay for it, so the US implements trade tariffs and no wall is built
So there's no wall built, all in the mist of a crashing Mexican economy which makes illegal immigration sky rocket.

>The US doesn't pay for it, Mexico refuses to pay for it, the US caves and signs the paycheck anyway and wall is built
Mexico economy crashes, makes us look weak, illegal immigration simply increases

All of this could be solved by manned patrol as already mentioned.

When did Cruz go against the grain? He was for un-American TPP and NAFTA and a bunch of other in-American shit... he was pro amnesty 2 years ago too. Just saying "vote with your conscience" isn't going against the grain... that's just thinking you're still on the primaries. He's a career politician, he will never be anything else... so everything he says, is just some set up to get votes somewhere to make sure he always has a job.

>Mexico is going to pay for a wall that is most likely going to be built by Mexican laborers, to keep Mexicans out.
Wrong, Mexico is going to pay for the materials and labor for the wall, while the actual building will be done by Americans

>Mexico will pay for the wall

And even if we don't get rid of NAFTA or set up a trade tariff... we can create taxes on things like money being sent back to Mexico via Western Union etc

>israel red tape is much better
Easiest way to know you don't know Israelis. Or that the current expansion ha been on hold for 6 years because of contract bitching and more bitching about compensation. So, again, you are full of shit.

>it's cheaper than a 40 billion faceless wall that would cost even more to patrol.
Number pulled out of your ass while advocating for a barrier that's worse and would be harder to police (for comparison, Saudi Arabia's fence which requires about five times the people to guard than israel's wall per kilometer). So, still full of shit.

>You make 14 men per mile seem bad, but it's actually a person every 115 meters, the length of a football field.
In tough terrain and in 24 hours permanent shifts, apparently, showing your misunderstanding on just how small that number really is. Less your idea is a bunch of sniper nests with heat detection and a tripling of the work force, you are full shit.

>You literally just mentioned Congress has the ability to do so. The Democrats don't like him, half of the Republicans don't like him.
And he has a veto and the current authority to carry it out. At this stage, your impossible plan argument requires both democrats and Republicans to get enough votes to defeat a veto while trump requires nothing but an order. You are full of shit.

>primary
>:those links
>not even about him getting the money but an unaffiliated group doing stuff
>That's the fucked up part, is the ONE candidate who can finance his own campaign choose not too.
>why isn't trump following my specific standards which he made no mention of doing
You are full of shit.

>He was a Democrat since childhood until 1987
Is everyone a Democrat until proven guilty? Or are you going to link us to show trump was affiliated to any party before 1987? And since childhood? I didn't know children where allowed to register in political parties as babies.

Again, as in everything else, you are full of shit.

Because to secure the border in any significant portion, presuming you aren't going to just stop after four hours involves an army of 350k people, probably more once you count support crew and administration, working 24 hours a day. Best case scenerio, that's 26 billion dollars a year, using current ratios and salaries. Salaries have a pesky tendency to increase. Note I am not including equipment, fuel, holding facilities for whoever you capture, or the risk of death for everyone involved.

Again, look at the Israeli example for why just adding more people doesn't work.

yeah except the wall exists forever and not until the end of term. HUGE boon against future immigration and invasion.

Also in the event of some sort of world war, a wall would be quite useful. Especially when you consider how unstable Central and South America already are.

>but Mexican leaders have adamantly stated that they wont as it's just a sign of weakness and giving yield to unwarranted pressure.
Trump isn't in office yet, believe it or not. Their tone will change once/if he gets there. Right now Trump is making more or less empty threats from their perspective because they hope Hillary will be elected. No need to give in to demands that nobody has the power to enforce YET.

>A tunnel 200 feet under ground, 40 foot ladders, go around the coast, you name it. It will probably dampen the illegal immigration a fair bit.
Here's what a manned wall, even small, can do.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_attempts_and_victims_of_the_inner_German_border#Refugee_flows_and_escape_attempts

Any questions? it went from "everyone is free to walk over it, 2million+" to "300 per year". Seems pretty fucking effective to me, mate. There was no secret communist tech in play here. Just good old staffed walls.

>says the guy from Panama who knows nothing about red tape in America

The 2nd Avenue subway in NYC is coming at a price tag of 17 billion. All infrastructure across the globe is considerably less, despite red tape existing everywhere.

Estimates range from 12 to 300 billion, retard.

I already said to put significantly more money into manned costs.

Congress has full authority to override veto's.

Dude, he's fucking admitted to financing his general campaign, just fucking stop, you're grasping at sraws.

>Isn't everyone a Democrat until proven guilty.
>it's okay because other people do it

That's some pretty far fetched fucking speculation.

>staffed walls
>staffed

Which is what I've been calling for all along. There's already a small wal- I mean fence and virtual wall there that can be patrolled. Thanks for reaffirming what I've been saying all this time.

>24 hour permanent shifts
You can split the pay for a 24 hour guard shift into different parts.

You can't effectively staff a border without a decent wall with guard outposts.

It's just not possible. You'd essentially putting thousands and thousands of cars into the desert, just patrolling. It's not feasible.

The berlin wall only worked because it was an actual wall that people had to cross while it was being actively guarded. 90% of those attempts just ended in getting scared away or shot dead.

So no, it's not what your'e calling for. You're calling for a border patrol without a wall, which isn't one bit as effective as a patrol with a wall.

Look at china. They built that huge ass wall for the sole purpose of putting people on it.

"It's just not possible" and "it's just not feasible" aren't counter points.

Increased militarization since the early 1990's have already made undocumented population drop and stagnate at around 11 million instead of progressively getting higher and higher like some people would want you to believe. We already have a system that is effective without a concrete wall, and more funding to this system is the most efficient and effective solution. I may be wrong, but we generally don't shoot immigrants like they did in Berlin.

Alright, it's actually been a good argument, I appreciate the dialogue, but I'm going to attempt to go to sleep again. Nice debate Mr. Swiss Man.

Well they are counterpoints because nobody in the history of man would've bothered to build a wall if they didn't offer solid benefits.

Why would China enslave half its population if the wall wasn't that important?

Maybe if Cruz won the nomination instead of bitching all the time maybe then he'd have an excuse, he tried to play out a 2020 run tonight and failed miserably (killing his career in the process).

Cruz killed what little respect anyone had for him tonight, and outed himself as an establishment shill.

Wow cool let me try
***-**-****