Let's read the quran Sup Forums continued

old thread
response to how are you comfortable with your verdict on the quran, ( i don't care about the rest) without examining it to it's fullest extent?

you can't skim a physics textbook and assume that you know the entirety of physics and begin disputing its fundamental proofs. People will criticize your credibility

merely skimming the quran breeds ignorance and ignorance leads to barbasim and all these things that you have show dislike for. ITcheapens your argument, how can you fight what you don't even know

it shows that you are letting fear get in your way of pursuing truth, whether your against islam or not.

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the simple fact it is not allowed to officially translate the quran to english is the first sign you may be following a totalitarian cult's book...

how, the whole purpose of the Quran existence is to stop it's message from being altered like other religions and retain its original message, it exists to be the most transparent, 100%
transparency does not help a totalitarian cult
and also, no one is stopping it from being officially translate it into english, it is only that th english version cannot be considered legal because it confines its original message

how what?, you just agreed with me....

how does the rejection of an english quran show that islam is a totalitarian cult

oh, yes the fact that a cult's book cannot "officially" be translated into every language facilitates taqiya, how is this not obvious?

I am the user to whom you are responding. You can read a line in a physics textbook, for instance that velocity is the rate of change of an object with regard to its position, and is a first order derivative of speed. Perhaps you understand nothing more of physics, but you understand that concept. You can then read other people who talk about velocity and gain a broader understanding of it. You can observe its real world effects. Then if some physicist tells you that actually velocity means the opposite of what it means, you can fully understand that they are lying to you, especially if elsewhere in the physics textbook it says that all physics professors need to lie, and indeed that the fundamental forces are in fact lies.

But muslims don't believe the koran is a textbook, do you? You believe it is the literal word of allah (who is the arab pagan moon god). Muslims believe that the koran is literal perfection, and must be taken as such. They relieve the cognitive dissonance of the internally contradictory passages with the doctrine of abrogation, which is only loosely koranic. When one applies abrogation, however, it is clear that first and foremost the takfiris have the correct interpretation of islam, and secondly and just as damning, that reform of islam is expressly forbidden and therefore impossible.

To get back to your analogy, why would someone who has no interest in becoming a physicist need to waste their time reading the entireties of physics textbooks? Shouldn't they only read what is relevant? So to islam. The bible tells us that you will know a tree by its fruit, and neither can you pick figs from thorns. The fruit of islam is violence, murder, torture, terrorism, evil, hatred, horrific brutality towards women, slavery, genocide, and subjugation. Everywhere that muslims have ever been, at every time in all of history, we see the same patterns repeat. One truly not need to read their terror manual to fully understand that islam is terror.

>islam is terror
post was too long, so allow me to point out:

koran 3:151

You just experienced islamic apologetic mental gymnastics. "the words actually mean the opposite of what they mean!" This is how a muslim argues.

it can be officially translated into english, it just cant be accepted by muslims, and no one is stopping anyone from reading the quran, you just need to learn arabic first to understand the one that muslims believe, no one is hiding the quran for anybody, its there and its available

>Surah 5, vers 32
>Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely.
> And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.
>And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs.
>Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

religion of peace, cuckheads.

Surah 5, vers 33
>Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. >That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

S5,V34
>Except for those who return [repenting] before you apprehend them.
>And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Chopping up non-muslims pic related

Incorrect. Arabic is a human language, and like every human language it can be accurately translated into every other. Furthermore, languages change over time, and the koran was written (by humans) in the 7th century. By contrast, Shakespeare wrote in the 16th century. Do any modern English speakers use the language naturally the way that Shakespeare did? Of course not. The language has changed so much. Similarly, contemporary Arabic speakers do not understand koranic Arabic without translation notes. If it needs to be translated even for native speakers to read it, why shouldn't it be translated for non-Arabic speakers?

Oh that's right, because many passages in the koran have been shown to predate moehommad (the pedophile homosexual false prophet of the Arab pagan moon god allah). Some by hundreds of years. The entire religion is built on a pile of poorly concealed lies. The muslims call this knowledge "ignorance." Another example of muslims saying things mean the opposite of what they mean.

I tried reading the quran and kinda liked. It felt like a Sup Forumstard wrote it, I mean the same type of argumentation. You know how muhammed proved jesus is no son of god? He argued that god cannot have a son because you need women for that. So if god had a wife, jesus could have been his son actually, but since he has no wife he wasn't his son. And dumb christians fail to understand that.

look up the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam.

It explicitly shows that muslims do not consider those who do not follow shariah to be humans. So, to the muslim, if he kills a kaffir, he has not killed a human. If he kills a member of the people of the book who have not paid the jizya, he has not killed a human. If he kills another muslim upon whom he has decreed takfir, he has not killed a human. Yet another example of the lies inherent in islam.

Go back to Syria, Hakim. You will never be German.

So moehommad (who was a pedophile and a homosexual) believed that there was no such thing as bastards?

your example in the begining is odd

you read a fact in a textbook, you then read opinions on that fact, you observe things which you mold to that one fact you read. then when a professional tells you that said fact is wrong, instead of proving him wrong with a textbook, you say he is a liar, because you also read another line in the same textbook that says that all professionals need to lie, and that first fact you read is a lie

ok

by my own account i will tell you that the quran doesn't work like that, and you will say it does, but you cn't prove that because you haven't read the full quran in its original form

on the second part, yes i do believe the quran is sent from god, and i believe it is perfect like any other miracle in the abrahamic faiths, just as moses parted the sea and jesus cured the blind. and the whole doctorine of abrogation, this concept also controadicts the quran, but again you cannot prove my claim because you haven't read the quran in its original formant

and the third part, how does person with no knowledge of physics or a physics textbook determine what is relevent in the world of physics? muslims believe the entire quran is relevant, but you make claims that there are certain parts of the quran are relevent more to muslims than other parts? how i will you know that if you have not read the quran in its original form. i dont care what muslims say about the quran, the quran does not need muslims, muslims need it. how can you know its true fruit or antomy, if you have not even studied the tree to it's fullest extent. to keep the science theme going, there are many medicines in this world that were derived from things we at first thought were poisonous due to our ignorance.

koran 2:106 says that some parts of the koran are more important than other parts. If you believe that all parts of the koran are equally important, then you must believe that 2:106 is just as important. But if you believe that, then you must believe that some verses are more important than others.

Islamic apologetics, everyone.

anyone that is fluent in more than one language can tell you that some phrases express more in some languages more than others. also, i am not saying that translations are bad, they make the quran more accessible, but to be satisfied with a translation is wrong because it muddles the original definitions, and thus with time, more and more translation will simplify the book to the point that the original message no longer exists, and thus the orginial text is the the ultimate source and should be strived to be understood.

at the end of the day i don't care about what surrounds the quran, it's message is what drew me, and so far no one has been able to critique it an in-dept hollistic manner, just fragments and translations and interpretations

Islam is incredibly easy to critique. If you think no one has ever done it, then you're just ignoring the mountains of criticism. Here's a video to help you.

youtu.be/_hUVVlgEqxY

You need to stop worshiping moehommad, because he was evil and everyone who follows him is evil. Islam is not medicine. It is death, and you will burn in perdition for all eternity for following its lies.

>koran 2:106
from what i have translated so far, this line is talking about the argument that people make when people dispute the claim islam makes that the previous holy messages have been deviated from. people say, oh if that was gods message, why would he allow it to be changed, why would should the Quran even exists, and this line is to show reassurance to those left from the true christians and jews that "None of our revalations do we (allah) change of cause to be forgotten (those who still follow the pure abrahamic faiths) but We substitute something better or similar (christinanity and now islam) and the verse ends with do you know that Allah has power over all things

now this is a translation, so do not take it as a hundred percent truth, read the quran in arabic for yourself

I like the part about banging virgins

oh im not claiming that at all, people have been critiquing islam at since it's inception, and the quran has predicted all of it and it has its responses, what i am saying is that since none of the critics of the quran have actually mastered quranic arabic and dissected the quran throughly, they have not brought any new ctriticisms, any crticisms that the quran hasn't predicted

and worshiping muhammad goes against islam, you would know that if your read the quran in arabic

Any mudpeople able to refute this?

The trick behind the apparent inconsistency of the Quran and why the radical Muslims are always correct: Like no other holy book among the world religions, the Quran contains an abundance of contradictory expressions. What is forbidden in one place is expressly demanded in another, and vice versa. However, the contradictory quality of the Quran is only an apparent one. It falls apart abruptly when one recognizes the very carefully protected secret hidden within the architecture of the Quran. For the Quranic Suras (chapters) are not arranged chronologically, but rather according to their length – and the newer Suras (from Muhammad’s violent later phase when he was in Medina) override the older ones from his era in Mecca that were comparatively more peaceful. However, this secret is guarded by Islamic scholars very closely as if it were a holy grail – and is aired only on particular occasions.

(An Essay from Michael Mannheimer, Germany, March 23, 2010 )

And yet, there are also contradictory verses in the koran, some of which we have gone over.

take 5:32, for instance, which evil muslims always use to lie about their "religion." Then take 2:191. Well shit, which one's true?

Well, 2:106 says that whichever one allah (the arab pagan moon god) handed down last is the most true. Unfortunately, the koran is arranged out of sequence. That is, the first book is not necessarily the first one written. Fortunately, arguing about which was written first is the most favorite activity of muslim scholars, so there is a clearly established linearity. Surahs 2, 6, and 9 are universally recognized to be the last written. And guess what? Those are the ones that are all about murdering everyone for plunder!

I don't need to read arabic to prove you wrong with your own evil holy book, muslim. Stop worshiping your religion of terror.

last thread

It was never refuted m8, want to try again

Islam is a cancer that needs to be ground out of existence.

Watch David Wood. He is very well studied on the koran.

muslims actually just like to play word games. This is an inherent factor in their lies. As previously noted, many muslims will say the word islam means peace, even though they know it does not. Lying is one of the most important things that muslims do, perhaps the most important.

So it is that muslims pretend they do not worship moehommad, when that is exactly what they do. The koran called moehommad (who was a pedophile and a homosexual) the perfect man. muslims believe that to emulate moehommad's life is good, and to not act like moehommad is bad. It's exactly the same way that Christians worship Jesus. To be Christ-like is the goal of a Christian, because that is what goodness is defined by. muslims believe the same thing about moehommad.

But how did Christ and moehommad live their lives? Jesus was peaceful and loving, even to the point that he allowed himself to be led meekly to be tortured and crucified. moehommad was a pedophile homosexual who murdered hundreds if not thousands of innocents with his own hand. What wonder that muslims today drive a truck over 84 people? They are just worshipping moehommad.

Incidentally, the koran is not magic. There is no such thing as prophecy. Insofar as it made predictions, it is nearly always wrong. You are a fool to believe in impossible things.

But a worse fool to worship moehommad and allah, because that is going to damn you to hellfire.

>but rather according to their length
This isn't true.

>
you just twist it around to justify whatever you do fagget, thats the secret

Source?

i just translated the 2:106 for you, you cant even prove or disprove it because you don't know the material throughly, doesn't that worry you?

and for me i find that reading the quran front to back makes the most sense for people who are already muslim because it examines what faith is once you get past the first chapter, the most important and all encompassing. the first hapter superscedes all the rest because if you do not fully realize the first, you cant even begin to continue and understand the rest

if you actually do your reasearch and see islamic scholarship, the first chapter has endess amounts of content

and you can call it evil all you want, how can you truly know if you haven't even read it?

muslims don't need to stand up for their book, go and read the book in arabicc and see if it refutes or approves the claim

>muh read it in Arabic
>mudskins are too fucking stupid to translate into English

This is pathetic, so you have no theological refutation to the doctrine of abrogation I'm assuming?

Are you the same guy who creates the "All atheists are feeble minded cripples so here's some pro-flavor of the month Christianity spiel" threads

but he isn't learned in quranic arabic, he is just an anti-evangalist thats it, he bases all of his arguments on hadiths and translations

and the word islam ha amny roots, it can peace, submission, cooking, to put together, to solidify, to obey, to do, those are only the root i know, but again, you can't even prove that those definitions are wrong, because you don't know quranic arabic

nd last thread on how we don't worship muhammad, which you would also know, if you read the quran in arabic

and how would you know if it's prophecy was wrong have you read the quran? in arabic?

i worship one god, like any honest jew or christian does

>muh im too stupid to learn another language
>muh im too dumb to do research and actually criticize something

its already in english, we just legally don't believe it

does it not trouble you that you will do anything but go through and see what you are critiquing?

i hope not, i find it wrong to villianize anyone who critiques of their faith

Then that means that you get to cherry pick what you like from the koran, and leave aside the things that you don't like. In which case, you are not following the koran, you are following your own likes. How does that make you a muslim? That makes the takfiris correct.

>still can't refute Islam's own doctrine of Abrogation

o i am laffen down under.

Not once has a dumbfuck mudskin been able to refute this. I don't give one single fuck about your subhuman interpretation of it you ugly shitstain, I want to know if there is a theological refutation to the Doctrine of Abrogation you dumb faggot.

Except I actually have done my research, which is why I have come to my understanding of the true evil of islam. This, you call ignorance. Another example of muslim lies: knowledge *actually* means ignorance, to a muslim, because #1 he doesn't like the truth, and #2 he religiously clings to the idea that arabic is somehow a magic language unlike every other language of men.

Do you not see why you cannot be taken seriously? You do not even admit the most obvious facts when they contradict your pet ideology.

Oh, but if I'm worried by something about islam, it is so not that I haven't read its evil holy book cover to cover.

Good thing I decided to refresh the catalog one more time before going for lunch. Another muslim shill thread I see.

if you cherry pick, your not a muslim, you are Sup Forums, the quran is code, and it has order, it must be done in order, for example, i have to check if i believe our decleration of faith before i start praying, and then i need to check if i pray five times before giving to charity or fasting, most muslims have trouble past step 2, let alone get to step 156, build mosque or something

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you won't know if you don't read the quran in arabic

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user with a history degree here. Had one semester history of the Islamic religion thought by a awesome proffessor who quiet objectively explained what Islam is in its concept. Dude has been living in the Middle East and spoke both Hebrew and Arabic, even proved it a couple of times (althought he was a modest guy in general).

This things aside, I am impressed with many arguments who have been pointed out. I am also impressed how OP continues to recycle the same and same argument over and over again which fails to convince anyone with a functioning brain.

I conclude that OP is either a troll or a genuine Muslim since what other anons pointed out, they just continue their lies.

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>i have actually done my research

have you: read the quran? in arabic?

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I personally think following Islam word for word as it is presented in the Quran (doesn't matter if Arabic or any other language) is living a barbaric lifestyle.

Hey its your choice, go for it. Its my choice to put my boot on your neck for being a filthy savage.

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How do you know if he reads Arabic or not?

Why won't you admit that languages can be translated effectively? You don't read French, but you can pick up Sartre's L'existentialisme est un humanisme and fully understand the philosophy. This is one of the 3-4 typical islamic apologetics lies. Are you really so obtuse that you cannot understand why we know you are liars when you continue to fall back on the same?

We know prophecies are wrong for instance when they describe impossible things. Such as that the moon would be split in two and glued back together. That never happened, Ahmed. At some level, even you know it didn't.

You do not worship one god. You worship moehommad, which is why you celebrated when dozens of French were slaughtered at the Charlie Hebdo attack for "mocking islam."

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all the critiques have come from people who haven't actually read what they are critiquing in it's original form

its like a kid saying, i know doughnuts taste bad, even if i havent eaten one, but it looks icky and someone told me it is icky, anf the donut man is asking me to try the donut and saying its good, but im not going to listen to the donut man because someone told me he is lying

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what made you come to that conclusion?

was it after reading it word for word in it's original format?

or was it cause someone told you that the quran is word for word barbaric

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Why do I even bother...

Ok so you want to convince us that the Arabic version of the Quran doesn't openly calls out against violence towards non-believes?

We somehow totally misinterpret the whole thing?

>"Abdullah, what does it say?"
>"It says peace and happiness Mehmed."
>"No no brah, it clearly says behead nonbelievers!"
>"You're right, Allahu Ackbar!!!"

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Oh, no. That is not the Sup Forums interpretation. That is the muslim interpretation! That Syrian in Germany just proved it. The koran literally says to smite the neck of the unbelievers wherever you may find them, and put a bondage of slavery on their women, in surah 8 and surah 47. So if you're not smiting the necks of non believers, you're cherry picking what you feel like believing. By your own words, your are therefore not a muslim. I call takfir on you; you are an apostate.

>what made you come to that conclusion?
Personall observations.

>mecca is in saudi arabia
>in mecca was built the islamic symbol which is the space cube
>millions muslims every year from all the world both shia and sunni go there to pray
>saudi arabia is seen as a role model islamic country to emulate
>millions muslim look up to saudi arabia

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but how will you know if you have really understood what sartre truly meant if you had not read it the way he had wrote it, are you comfortable with taking someones word for it? i know we live in a time where translations are pretty hard to mess up, but what if someone were to completely alter it for whatever agenda and then the orginial copy were to be loss, wouldn't sartes orginal message be lost as well, even though someone was telling you that this translated copy was truly sartes message?

you don't know prophecies if you have never read them in their orginal form or contexts

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im only pointing out a glaring flaw in all your crticisms, and that is that it seems that you have all made judgements on a book you have never examined in its pure form front to back

nothing less nothing more

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Side note, I never bothered with building up any significant Sup Forums folder but damn Spaghetti dude is on fire.

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have you read the quran? in arabic? if you haven't then you don't know what i believe

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you can bet I am, it's hot as hell.

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