/who/ - Doctor Who General

A Christmas Carol edition

Was it the GOAT Christmas special?

Last thread

first for Invasion being the best Cyberman story

Still my favorite Christmas Special.

Was it the best episode that aired on Christmas day? Yes.
Was it the best "Christmas" special, i.e., actually focuses on Christmas themes and isn't a regeneration episode? Definitely.

We throw the word GOAT around a lot but this really is greatest of all time in its respect.

Greetings, greetings, greetings! Well, I seem to be stuck in the sodding Time Vortex, AGAIN! So I can’t assist you. This is one of the many regrets in my life. Goodbye, my dears!

It's pretty good, yeah. That and Christmas Invasion are like, the only good Christmas specials.

All of them are pretty ok
Except for Widow which is crap

Dangerous Cybermen, panty shots for both Zoe and Jamie (at least in the animated episodes), and best of all, Zoe blowing up a computer by speaking ALGOL and then laughing about it.

>Christmas Invasion
>good

Wake up cunts

Alright.

So, /who/, what in your opinion is the weirdest Who story ever? Be it unsettling, creepy, or just odd, what (out of any medium) is the most out there story?

Oh No It Isn't (Benny) and Of the City of the Saved with the Manfolk are my picks.

Of Nuwho, Midnight was the most unsettling for me. I'm a big 80s horror nerd though, so low budget campy/cheesy horror appeals to me. Heaven Sent sold Capaldi's run for me, also.

Some guy told me that he hates Bill because "she's obviously just tumblr the character, stupid as hell and I can't stand her accent". So, my question is this: How do you feel about Bill? Personally, I like her, and if the spoilers are true, I'll miss her a bit.

Guess we're the only 3 awake.

I'm not particularly familiar with either of those. Care to elaborate on them a bit?

I too think Heaven Sent is the apex of Capaldi's run.

For me it'd have to be Frayed. Something about the Foxes and they way they materialize is absolutely horrifying.

I think she's already miles ahead of Clara as far as character goes. She isn't selfish or hateful towards the Doctor, but is still relevant and asks appropriate questions.

My fear was she'd be "wacky tumblr" incarnate, but I think she's a lot deeper than that. I'm excited to have a well and fully realized companion on board, and I kind of hope she stays.

I'm sure others are awake, just lurking or have nothing to add to the discussion so they're staying silent to be courteous.

I used to hate Midnight, but I rewatched it recently and I've come to appreciate it. It's a fear-of-the-unknown kind of episode, playing on a very basic fear. It also plays on the same tropes and themes as Romero's Night of the Living Dead in a way, a group of people in an enclosed space who COULD work together, but instead become their own worst enemy. I love that shit. Also Ten becomes totally helpless and almost gets BTFO about halfway through, he's not the hero of that episode at all

Funny that one of RTD's episodes with the least budget is the one of the best ones he's done.

I like Bill and the attempt to bring a "fresh perspective" to the show via her. She hasn't immediately got into the swing of things and accepted all the show's premises the way most companions do. I think one of the reasons I like season 1 and series 1 so much is that the show doesn't take itself for granted in those seasons and I think Bill and the whole "series 10 reboot" thing are giving us a taste of that. It's the kind of thing that would get old if they did it with every companion, but you have to do it once in a while.

I think the last part says it all. He's prejudging her by her accent, and can't get past it, and that's why he thinks she's stupid as hell, and there's really nothing to say about that.

She asks intelligent questions. She doesn't want to jump into things without thinking, or at least being sure the Doctor's properly done so. She connects the dots. And what we see of her background—a girl who's done no uni, and the Doctor soon has her writing papers on quantum physics—makes it pretty clear that none of this is accidental, she's intended to be at least as smart as she appears.

But it's not entirely your friend's fault. RTD talked about how he wanted to break the stereotypes associated with accents, but he wrote Martha as smarter than Rose and Donna. And then Moffat wrote Clara as smarter than Amy. So why shouldn't we assume Bill is dumber than Clara or Martha from the moment we hear her voice?

I think I need more than two episodes to give an honest opinion of her. Her eyebrows bother the hell out of me, but that's more of an aesthetic thing.

What I like most about her is that she's shaping up to be the first NuWho companion who respects the Doctor's goodness, intellect, and knowledge without blindly worshipping them.

Moffat obviously had some issues with the way all of RTD's companions are built on the Sarah Jane model of jumping from suspicious mistrust to religious faith without anything in between, because he keeps playing with it, but up until now he's still kept doing it anyway. Giving Amy and Rory crises of faith, having Amy realise that it's always safe to question the Doctor because he'll only listen to her when she's right, Clara starting to argue with the Doctor but only after she's well on her way to becoming the Doctor herself…that's all cool, but is it necessary to write that blind faith into the characters in the first place?

I think Moffat's fear was that if you don't write the character as Sarah Jane, you're more likely to end up with Tegan or Peri than with Zoe or Ace. But if so, I guess he's confronted that fear, so, good for him.

If they ever made a Japanese Doctor Who, they need to cast Dan's actor.

Watching Daleks In Manhatten right now.

Honestly, the worst thing about this isn't the bad accents. It's the way the Daleks are characterized as missing Skaro.

He's definitely the hero, even if he doesn't win. He's the only voice of reason and compassion on the bus.

He tries to be, but he's not the one who saves the day in the end, it was the hostess.

I've been rewatching a lot of Doctor Who recently to procrastinate, including bits and pieces of classic Who - the best ofs, to dodge any time-wasters - life's too short for 2.5 hours of Pertwee filler.

I can't disagree with the statement that under RTD, the companions of the Doctor had a faith bordering on the religious. However, I don't think Moffat had an issue with it in the way that you think, and I guess this is as good an opportunity to waffle about why.

Many threads ago, I think I made a post along the lines that the fundamental difference between RTD and Moffat can be summed up in the Doctor's catchphrases. Ten had "Brilliant!", "Allons-y!" and "Molto Bene!", but most importantly, he had "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry." Eleven had "Geronimo!" and "Bow ties are cool!". Ten's iconic lines speak to his compassion and his kindness, his boundless enthusiasm for the variety and diversity of life, and to his admiration and respect for myriad cultures. Eleven's don't. They're just sort of shallow, superficial, kitschy quirks.

And the reason I bring it up is because the reason I miss RTD is because the Doctor, to me, works best as a romantic hero, defined by his idealism and his compassion - someone who genuinely cares about his companions, his enemies, and the strangers he meets on his travels, and has this sincere sense of awe for the people and the things he encounters. I think you're right that nine and ten's companions had an almost religious belief in him, but that belief was less to do with his character and more his commitment to a way of life:

Rose:

It was a better life. And I don't mean all the travelling and seeing aliens and spaceships and things. That don't matter. The Doctor showed me a better way of living your life. You know he showed you too. That you don't just give up. You don't just let things happen. You make a stand. You say no. You have the guts to do what's right when everyone else just runs away, and I just can't.

(cont)

Yeah, but I think your definition of hero is a little skewed. You don't have to be victorious to be the hero, or be the one who deals the killing blow. I see your point, I just think that he's the only person who doesn't succumb to suspicion, paranoia, and prejudice, and as someone who consistently advocates calm and compassion, deserving of the title "hero", even if the Hostess takes the bullet - she's also the first person to bring up tossing somebody out of the bus.

I thoroughly enjoy her so far.
She's very clever and has a drive to learn, considering she's been sitting in on the Doctors lectures despite not being a student. And I don't think Bill has any secondary story motivations to travelling with the Doctor like most other new who companions e.g. being in love with the Doctor, being the impossible girl or whatever. She's just normal. I enjoy her and 12's platonic, Professor/student relationship. She complements 12 perfectly. She's shaping up to be an even better Donna than Donna was, and I love Donna.
Yeah she's had a few iffy lines but that's nothing new for Doctor Who, particularly in Moffats era.

Yeah you could say he's heroic, the obvious protagonist of the story, but he's not the one who 'saves the day' in the end though, that's all I meant to say

The point is, when people worship the Doctor during RTD's run, it makes sense, because they're inspired by him. But under Moffat's run, you have the parade of Moffat's fetishes who obsess over and adore the Doctor, and for what reason? Clara "fancies the pants" off 11, Amy tries to fuck him, River's all-consuming fixation with the Doctor seems to borne, not from his compassion, but from a sort of fawning adoration for nothing more than his power.

River:

Now my Doctor, I've seen whole armies turn and run away. And he'd just swagger off back to his Tardis and open the doors with a snap of his fingers. The Doctor in the Tardis. Next stop, everywhere.

He's celebrated not for being kind, or being honest, or being moral, but for being a "clever boy". Moffat's tenure kind of debased the Doctor, shifting his companion's obsessions from romantic or platonic love to an entirely more crass lustful preoccupation, based on his alleged handsomeness, his cleverness, and the grandiose spectacle that accompanied his displays of hubris and power.

And the thing is, their fixations stretch far beyond Rose's, and Donna's, and Martha's - Martha, lets not forget, is the only companion thus far who made the decision to LEAVE the TARDIS and the Doctor's life - we have women he barely knows willing to sacrifice their entire life for him, to devote their entire existence to pursuing him across the stars so they can date. Moffat might've had an issue with the religious worship of the Doctor, but not with worship itself - just the form it took. He much preferred the idea that every woman instantly soaks their panties the second he "swaggers" into a room and starts quipping, instead of being moved by acts of heroism, courage, sacrifice or kindness.

Oh, but with all that being said, I totally agree with everything you said about Bill, and I'm praying that Moffat's finally grown the fuck up.

Night!/who/ really is better than Day!/who/, these are legitimately interesting discussions and opinions. Cheers, lads.

I wish I still had all of the day v. night files

Hey Cloister if you have a /who/ art request, I can try to do it tonight before I pass out drunk

I think she's great. Pearl Mackie occasionally struggles with some of the weaker lines in the script but she's legitimately a great actor. She milks a lot of emotion out of very few lines and gestures.

Also, the Pilot has seized me in a way that few Doctor Who episodes ever has. I need to ask - did anybody else have really strange feels watching it? Like, good feelings - wistfulness, yearning, a weird, poignant ache? It's one of the first Moffat episodes, like, ever, to really nail story, character and theme in the sense that they're all mutually complimentary. It works like a beautiful machine. I might be waxing too lyrical on this, but I just thought that it needs celebrating for doing something Moffat very rarely does, which is tap into an actual human experience, and create a relatable, real character.

Like - the whole episode really captured the feeling of a crush. The sense of longing, the feeling of missing something, or someone - a purpose, meaning, fulfilment - the fact that when you feel those first flickers of desire, your imagination populates an entire future for you with a hundred different days and experiences. A crush really can represent a whole universe of potential, which is what I loved about Heather as the "Pilot". Crushes represent everything you want and everything you're missing, and like - I dunno, just wow. I'm rambling a little because I haven't slept and I should be working, but it really moved me in a way I was completely unprepared for.

I've really disliked most of the last 3 seasons of Doctor Who, but the last episode was good imo.

The pilot was awful so I'm still on the fence.

McCoy, spanking Ace while she says "I'm a good girl"? Or maybe Simm's master forcing a restrained 10 to eat pears?

>I am ...alone...in the universe

HOO BOY, THAT SECOND ONE. Consider it done.

(I'll do the first one when I'm sober)

I was very impressed with Pearl as asBill. I wasn't prepared for the episode either and it really kinda blew me away. It's been a long time since I've had a new crush, so It was kinda a foreign feeling for me but it did make me long for youth a bit and feel pretty jaded at the same time. (In my head I said "That aloof bitch is goofy staring at puddle, I don't care how hot she is, I would have bounced." but upon exploring it I realized I would have been staring at the puddle too, just like Bill was trying to make time with a pretty girl at that approximate age. I literally stuck around shoveling horse shit for my crush. I think Pearls performance in the pilot was as much if not more genuine than any NuWho companion. So much warmth. I'll be sad to see her go.
I thought the second one might inspire you. Can't wait to see either! By the way, I saw in an earlier thread, you mentioned you were bi. How do you feel about big breasts?

The fact that they're both questionably sfw is hilarious to me. I wrote down the dialogue immediately so I wouldn't forget. [/spoiler] I draw porn for a living, afterall. kek.[/spoiler]

I think they're cute irl! I just have difficulty drawing female anatomy because I'm so used to drawing males, and avoid looking at my own, so I don't have a whole lot of practise. I try though!

The fact that they're both questionably sfw is hilarious to me. I wrote down the dialogue immediately so I wouldn't forget. I draw porn for a living, afterall. kek.

I think they're cute irl! I just have difficulty drawing female anatomy because I'm so used to drawing males, and avoid looking at my own, so I don't have a whole lot of practise. I try though!

edit: wew, ocd forces me to delete my posts and fix my fucked spoiler tags

(Sorry for the delay; lunch time…)

I don't disagree with everything you said, but getting back to my main point, I think this is connected.

To oversimplify, RTD sees the Doctor as a god; Moffat sees him as a wizard. So when RTD's companions fall in love, it's like a nun falling in love with Jesus; when Moffat's companions fall in love, it's like the thief character falling in love with the wizard character in a post-Lieber fantasy novel.

But I don't think Moffat realised this distinction consciously. RTD had set the template of companions worshipping the Doctor, and Moffat felt like that was just part of NuWho that he had to keep, even as he tried to add grounded relationships on top of that, which led to a lot of tensions that he had a hard time fixing, experimenting with "what if we add Fenric" or "what if we add mid-EDAs Fitz" when he really could have just not written the relationship that way in the first place.

I still find Moffat more interesting in general, just because a problem born out of overcomplicating things and only half-solved by overcomplicating them further is more interesting than a simple problem that just goes ignored. (And also, the Lonely God is an interesting idea, but it only allows for a few stories, and RTD already wrote them all.)

Good to know, I wasn't going to make you draw any btw.
I know it will never happen or at least shouldn't(doxxing risk and all that), but I'd love to see a sample of your portfolio. You're very talented, quite jealous. J/s.

Why did they cast such an ugly woman as the companion this time? All of her features seem to big for her head. She's really off-putting to look at.

Just send me a dm next time there's a stream bro

Are....you talking about Bill or Abigail from the christmas special in OP's picture...?

Cool beans1

he's clearly talking about Michael Gambon

Yes

The nigger from the emoji episode.

Maybe because Doctor Who has no interest in appealing to racist morons like you? I'm not sure why you're watching in the first place, but if you quit, nobody's going to care.

Don't forget the cat in Survival!
>inb4 why reply to a post from three threads ago

I never asked why the cast a nigger, I asked why they cast such an ugly nigger. She's really hard to look at at times.

This may surprise you, but "I hate black people but if a chick is hot enough I can get past her being black" is not actually less bigoted than "I hate black people full stop".

wew this is incredibly gay

apologizes for sloppiness, alcohol is a contributing factor

You're confused. I wasn't trying to seem less racist, I was trying to get an answer to my question.

>wew this is incredibly gay
Well, it has the Doctor and the Master in it. If it wasn't incredibly gay, that would mean you got something wrong.

If nobody involved in Doctor Who has any interest in appealing to racist morons like you, then none of the decisions they make are going to make sense to you except occasionally by accident. And they can't be explained to you unless you choose to stop being a moron.

See, that's how things work: when you deliberately choose to be stupid, there will be things you don't understand. That doesn't mean the world is unfair, it means you shouldn't deliberately choose to be stupid.

I haven't said anything stupid. It's uncommon for shows to cast offensively ugly women as lead actresses. I think the fact that you're a faggot snowflake that's had his jimmies ruffled by the word "nigger" is clouding your judgement.

WHERE DO YOU EVEN START TO WATCH THIS SHOW???

Using the word "nigger" while pretending to have a polite conversation is stupid.

Being a racist and watching a show that's celebrated diversity since it started decades before you were born is stupid. (For that matter, just being a racist is stupid.)

With the 2005 series, starting with 'Rose'. If the lore is interesting to you, you can go back and watch the classic seasons.

From Series 1. Like every other show.

Four good starting places:

>Series 10, starting with The Pilot. Under 2 hours to catch up.
>Series 5, starting with The Eleventh Hour. A few dozen hours.
>Series 1, starting with Rose. Closer to 100 hours.
>Season 1, starting with An Unearthly Child. Hundreds of hours.

That's awesome! Thank you!
Below: not work safe and for Edge's eyes only silly billys. ;^)
imgur com/a/r2fiT , Here's something from Belle.

>Using the word "nigger" while pretending to have a polite conversation is stupid.

Are you new here? Maybe you should have stayed on reddit if you feel the need to call out people for using words you find offensive.

also racism is natural and healthy

BTW, Goodnight /who/!

You don't.

It's awful.

"x is cool" isn't a superficial statement about the merits of various fashion accessories, it's about the fact that 11 is willing to do things that might be considered uncool and doesn't care what people think of him as long as he likes it.

Geronimo is just Allons-y 2.0.

I see your problem. You think "here" means Sup Forums, rather than /who/. I can see the confusion, because they both have letters in them, but they're not actually the same thing.

WEW SWEET JESUS, WHAT DID I DO TO DESERVE THIS, CLOISTER?

Kill yourself nigger

No, I mean Sup Forums.

Are the Dr Who threads always this cucked? Because that's probably about to change.

Well, he definitely doesn't care what the rest of the world things, but he does seem to care what Amy and River think. Otherwise, he wouldn't be saying it in the first place.

And it plays off the whole generation-gap-twist thing, where by the end he's the son-in-law to the girl he was a father figure for. He's both the old dad who can't possibly understand cool, while at the same time being the child whose notion of cool is too silly for married grownups to take seriously.

How many loads have you lads blown to Bill? 23 for me.

>Dr Who

confirmed for not actually watching the show. it's not "wrong" to say it this way but only plebeians do it. like how i've noticed that only redditors say the doctor's number in words, e.g. calling the tenth doctor "ten" instead of 10

You are a fucking redditor shut the fuck up

I have awoken from my slumber just to defend my honor. I call him Ten and I've never used reddit in my life, Cats.

>implying doctor who isn't a pleb show

You're the most reddit cunt who's ever posted here.

fuck dr who and fuck white people

Wouldn't it be simpler to just type "REEEEE"?

Wouldn't it be even simpler to just go away?

I don't really know what that implies, I don't understand much about Reddit, user.

Turn your trip back on it's embarrassing

Doctor Who threads have been in need of the Red Pill for a while to be fair.

This is the start of a new dawn user.

At least six people are making fun of you, and at least three of them are established trips, and yet you still think it's samefagging? You can't possibly be even half as stupid as you pretend to be.

you're kind of a massive wanker

>implying

>This is the start of a new dawn user.

yeah, the on-season is totally a new dawn. can't wait for (((night))) to fall again when the series ends and all the Sup Forumsdancers leave

she's a pleasant change. Her personality isn't tumblr, only the superficial "black lesbian" part which I don't have an issue with

that's not true
edgey actually produces original content, he can't be reddit

I guess so. I still hate him.

don't hate me cuz u aint me

I think he's cute

Convince me of your worth with a picture of Matt sticking his sonic up Amy's ass.

I drew that ages ago

Almost no simmposting in last treads. I'm so sad.

>generic ass
Into the trash it goes

The last two threads both had actual discussions about Simm, which I think confused the simmspammers.

It was like a 30 second doodle, user. Did you want me to legitimately draw nsfw? because I'll do it