So are we all in agreement that this man is the GOAT?

So are we all in agreement that this man is the GOAT?

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My 2 cents from the eye test. Jordan was more fun to watch and dominated when it mattered the most. LeBron is a better overall talent and player.

These desu

LeBron would have 8 rings by now if he had Phil Jackson as his coach throughout his career tho

Or if he wasn't such a good guy wanting to play for his shitty hometown team

Also this. Gilbert's Cavs are like a bottom five all time organization. Literally the only reason they aren't regarded as a Brown' level organizational dumpster fire is LeBron

LeBron would easily have 5 if the Cavs front office and ownership didn't have their heads up their asses for his first stint there.

I would pick LeBron to build a franchise around. I think he's the better player but Jordan got it done when it mattered more often. I'd bet on LeBron having more success if you could put them in the exact situation

>one regular season game

*6-0’s your face*

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It’s not like the “0” is that significant. It just means Lebron won more conference championships

What did he mean by this?

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Lebron couldn’t even 4-0 with D Wade and Bosh, Jordan just had Pippen and he threepeated twice, Lebron has nothing on that, like seriously, it’s not even close

Lebron's only fault is that he didn't have the fortune of playing in a deluded league like Jordan did.

B-but the east is a joke user... and that’s where baby Lebron has camped out his entire career

YES

There isn't even a close second.

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I doubt anyone here is old enough to have watched Jordan.

pfffffrrt

i'm 33, and remember based nba on nbc with costas, rashad and mj bulls vs ewing knicks every other week. shit was beyond based

lebron is more athletic than MJ to be sure, but watching mike was just exciting every night

i'm 40 bruh. i started watching jordan in the late 80s.

A shitty hometown that's still more significant than your entire country.

nazis picked argentina over cleveland, so...

i'm 27, i watched the last season of jordan's sixpeat and his wizards career

Nazis? Those faggots we beat in the war? Great argument.

>lebron is more athletic than MJ

maybe, but jordan was built like the picture perfect basketball player. his hands alone are like 12 fucking inches wide

it's definitely not a maybe at age 33. lebron is significantly more athletic than jordan at this age. and mj really lost a step by the time he turned 30. that's when he started going to his fade away a lot.

but young michael jordan - 24 year old michael jordan - was right up there with lebron.

Just pippen, what about Steve Kerr, Toni kukoc, and not to mention one of the best defensive players ever Dennis rodman? I personally hate LeBron but to think Jordan didn't have stacked teams at all is naive.

No. Jordan accomplished more in less games and at an older age. Remember he played college ball, then went to the NBA, plus he stopped playing BBall for two years. Lebron is in his fifteenth year and has half the championships. No threepeat.

I could never consider him the GOAT after that chokejob against the Mavericks.

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This
The ammount of underage dickriders in this board is getting ridiculous

jordan wasn't anywhere near good enough at 18 to go pro in in any era. even if he grew up in lebron's time he would've still had to go to college for a few years.

the fact that lebron could've been the #1 pick at age 17 is another reason why he's always been a better basketball player than jordan.

Those players weren't there til the second 3peat and people say Lebron has played with literal nobodies but that's just not true. Truth is, lebron had no answer for the phenomenal teams he faced in the finals and his lack of heart in the 2011 finals.

nope. i'm 40 and that guy is wrong and mad. lebron will always be bigger, faster, stronger, smarter than jordan with the ability to be an all-star at 5 positions.

jordan, on the other hand, only turned into a winner after phil jackson finally convinced him to - wait for it - play more like lebron (i.e. trust his teammates).

michael jordan honestly does not compare to lebron as a basketball player. lebron is so much more complete.

That's not a good arguement for lebron. The fact he was better earlier doesn't mean he had more success professionally. Jordan could've definitely been drafted in today's era before his junior year of college.

Lebron could never be a center and has never contended with an all star center like he would in the 80's and 90's. And if you look at the stats, jordan had less assists under the triangle system with jackson. Jordan was a scorer during those championship runs. And you're complete dickrider if u think it's not close. No stats favor either player so all u can really go of is championships. If u don't put weight into conference championships, jordan wins easily.

>Lebron is the GOA-

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Then you are fucking blind.
I dont care whos bigger, faster or stronger. I aint buying a slave here.
Im talking about basketball. And MJ is the GOAT, even leaving 2 years in his prime.

not really a contest

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Impressive but it was clearly a choke job.

it's easy to choke when someone is strangling you
41 b2b games followed by a triple double in game 7. that's no accident baby

jordan 95-96
>shoot 43 percent from three
>take 23 shots
>only 3 are from 3
>still only get to the line 8 times a game
90s basketball strategy was infuriatingly bad

The dominance of centers and the rules about defense meant threes weren't as necessary for spacing. As long as iso ball was possible with jordan, he didn't need to shoot threes.

And getting to the line 8 times a game is impressive if that's what u meant.

Like i said, it's impressive but it was the warrior's series to lose. And we're forgetting that Jordan's team was able to get 70+ wins and capitalize on it. Has a lebron team gotten that many wins?

It's annoying trying to compare him sometimes as well because of the few years the moved the 3 point line in completely skewed his career average

I'll admit that I caught the very end of Jordan's career so I didn't get to watch him night in and night out, but I have seen film of his best games (which could be viewed as cherry picking.)

On the other hand, I've seen the entirety of Lebron's career; good and bad.

Here's a few opinions of mine.

Lebron is by far a better driver to the basket.
Jordan is easily a better shooter, especially contested shots.

There's no question Lebron is a better passer and better rebounder.

Michael is a better defender; he has more blocks (although Lebron probably will pass him) and like 600 more steals. Lebron has trouble staying with the best ball handlers, but he can guard some of the best big men. I still give the advantage to MJ on the defensive end.

Another large disparity is turnovers. Yes I know that Lebron handles the ball a shitload but they both have played 15 seasons and Lebron has a thousand (1,000) more turnovers.

Playoffs:

MJ: 33-6-6
LBJ: 28-9-7

It's a toss up, but I gotta go with MJ. I think his scoring ability + how good he was defensively is the deciding factor for me.

*ages like fine wine*

no stop making ham handed excuses 90s basketball strategy was asinine
>wide open three
>lemme pass that up and take a dribble and shoot a 18 foot two pointer cuz better shot lol
you clearly dont remember what you watched if you dont remember that being a thing

he also has nearly 3000 more assists than Jordan does, so despite that he still has the better assist to turnover ratio of 2.06 to Jordan's 1.93

I re watched the final minute from game 6 of the 2013 finals the other day and he had 2 horrible 3 point attempts and 2 turnovers before ray allen bailed him out. Plus, the spurs were ready to run back in transition and probably score if the refs hadn't decided to stop and see if allen's foot was on the line or not. Dude got very lucky things went how they did. Jordan never had an absolute chokefest like that in the biggest moment although you could argue that spurs team was better than any team jordan played but it's hard to compare eras like that

steals there's no question, Jordan was better, he was one of the best all time and taking the ball away, but blocks? The difference right now is 7 blocks between the two and Lebron will probably equal if not surpass that before actually finishing his season

He hit the three pointer the possession before to put them within range to tie(to say nothing that he near single handily erased the rather large lead the Spurs had at the end of the 3rd)

And the Spurs basically got a free time out from it and also illegally subbed Tim Duncan back in that the ref's missed, so don't act like that stoppage hurt them or anything

Idk what you're talking about. People shot threes all the time in the 90's and what i was saying was it wasn't as prolific as it is now because spacing was different. You're talking about strategy but there wasn't nearly as much emphasis on shooting beyond the arc because if u got a great center and no zone, you're gonna feed the hole.

stop it. They played that way because of muh old skool and because nerds weren't given power yet

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Michael Jordan is the GOAT. He’s the kind of player that steps out on the court and will show you exactly what it means to play basketball. He never had his towel boy pick him up off the floor. He never left Chicago because he couldn’t get them the ring they wanted. He didn’t need 2 other super stars to get him to the finals in a very, very, very weak eastern conference. Michael Jordan is what your dad wish he raised. A man, legend, athlete and baller.
tl;dr
Go to bed little boys.

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>conference championships
Literally meaningless.

I know right. He actually thinks winning the eastern conference finals means something

>He didn’t need 2 other super stars to get him to the finals
yeah you can stop right there, he never made it to the Finals without Pippen, a top 50 all time player in his own right who just happened to hit his prime the same time Jordan did and top 5 to ever play his position, and for his second three peat he had one of the best defensive THE best rebounding PF to ever play in Dennis Rodman. Never mind one of if not the greatest head coaches in NBA history

Never mind that his team just happened to start winning as soon as the Pistons and Celtics started declining sharply

Jordan didn't leave the Bulls because he didn't fucking have to, meanwhile Lebron was on a Cavs team that gave him nothing whatsoever outside a broken down old Shaq for 6 years, he took a team to the finals with Mo Williams as his second best player. If he had stayed there people would have wondered what he was leaving on the table for the rest of his career

>ray allen won the game
if you bothered to watch it when it happened in the first place and remember it or even bother to look at the box score you would know ray allen had a god awful game. he had like 5 points and was on the floor almost the whole game. meanwhile james carried the team in that game until the end. if allen did something besides eat up floor minutes theyd have been up 10-15 and wouldnt have needed that. if everyone on the floor scored at allens pace the heat would have scored like 40-50 points in the game

Ok you're a retard. Notice he said "spread that thing out and go." That's because of SPACING. If u got guys who can shoot, great. There's no need for inside presence if u can force guys to the perimeter. The reason there are no more great big men is because traditional centers can't guard the pereimeter and without illegal defense rules, players will zone the all stars. If everybody on the team like the warriors has a reliable shot, you're forcing one on one defense or risking an open three. It leaves the lanes open and exploits the lack of inside presence. A guy like steph feeds off this. The rrason the 90's didn't have this is because there's less spot up shooters, more big men and there's already one on one defense bring enforced.

It’s funny that I can tell you wear glasses just by reading your post

not to mention the nba expanded rapidly during jordans run and heavily diluted the league. the league was mediocre as shit contrary to what nostalgia fags are going to say

the only team jordan faced more than once in the ecf or finals was the jazz

What is it with lebron boys and excuses? “That’s because of...!” “It’s different because he...!” “Soylent is okay to drink because...!”

>conference champions

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see

People have weird memories, Ray Allen did hit one of the biggest shots in NBA history, but Lebron also went 69/22/15 and played 95 minutes over those last two games

Bosh scored 10 points and Wade scored 37 over that same period, Lebron carried the shit out of that team in the Finals for all the big 3 were supposed to be

>jordan was already in his prime
>pistons were still formidable, still in their prime when bulls started winning
>dennis rodman could've been replaced by horace grant desu
>playoff fatigue is a thing
Lebron should've left but he had a chance in 07

When people say this I can't tell if they're joking or not. The east back then was pretty much how the west is currently.

because context matters you fucking retard. Otherwise either Wilt or Russel is the Goat

the irony or maybe its not and part of the reason is that steve kerrs career suffered more than anybody from that mentality. the dude is still the all time 3 point pct leader and he came off the bench and shot 2-3 a game. there were years he shot over 50 percent and was sitting on the bench

If contacts matters why do all sport analysis put MJ as the GOAT? Also if lebrick tried to make his own shoe company do you think he would succeed?

Get ready for the LeBron millenial defense force to completely ignore this

No, in fact, he's not even top 5.
1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. Bird
4. Duncan
5. Hakeem

Steve kerr is a champion and he's a good shooter but he's not some all time great talent who could transform a franchise like curry. He played his role and he played it well. Don't make it bigger than what it is.

I'm sorry but 6-0 finals with a break in between because he was bored is way more impressive than anything LeBron has ever done. Not to mention all those clutch daggers to win some of those games MJ made.

They try to put MJ as the goat because of context. His accolades don't have shit on Wilt who they literally had to change the rules of the game to help stop him from dominating and who literally beat a team with 8 HoFers with a fair number of his stats not being counted for like 1/4 of his career

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Michael Jordan
- 10 scoring titles
- 5 regular season MVPs
- averaged 41 points on 50% FG in the 1993 Finals
- career regular season average 30-6-5 49% FG 83% FT in 15 seasons
- career playoff average 33-6-5 48% FG 83% FT in 13 seasons
- career Finals average 33-6-6 48% FG 80% FT in 6 appearances, 6 championships, 6 Finals MVPs
- career playoff low 15 points, career Finals low 22 points

LeBron James
- only member of the 30k-8k-8k club
- best all-around player ever
- 4 regular season MVPs
- averaged 30-11-9 49% FG 2.6 steals 2.3 blocks in the 2016 Finals
- averaged 34-12-10 56% FG in the 2017 Finals
- career regular season 27-7-7 50% FG 74% FT in 15 seasons
- career playoff average 28-9-7 49% FG 74% FT in 12 seasons
- career Finals average 28-10-8 47% FG 73% FT in 8 appearances, 3 championships, 3 Finals MVPs
- only player in NBA history to lead both teams in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks in a Finals series
- only player in NBA history to average a triple-double in a Finals series
- most triple-doubles in NBA Finals history
- one of the best scorers and passers ever

>His accolades don't have shit on Wilt

Wilt's individual postseason performance takes him out of the GOAT conversation. All his stats plummeted in the playoffs and the Finals.

But user my cousin from Cleveland says the east back then was a lot easier in fact LeBron stays in the east now because its more or a challenge

I'll say this. If the Cavs win this year, many more people would side with Lebron. This Cavs team isn't that talented and has poor coaching. If the Lebron overcomes all that and beats a 60-win Raptors team and the Warriors or Rockets in the finals, it would be the greatest postseason run in NBA history.

>completely ignores the fact Jordan was the clutch artist who won a lot of those games

Sorry continue. You were saying something about how Rodman is hands down one of the greatest players of all time.

>If the Lebron overcomes all that and beats a 60-win Raptors team and the Warriors or Rockets in the finals, it would be the greatest postseason run in NBA history.
>led by all-time greats Demar DeFrozen and Kyle fucking Lowry

yeah because the thought of putting someone on the floor to chuck 12 threes a game was absolutely unthinkable back then. currys very career suffered early on because of this mentality

But Jordan still averaged more blocks per game

Ia actually said Pippen was if you'd care to learn how to read, but are you suggesting that the 6'7" 210 lb guy that averaged 13 rebounds a game for his career and averaged over 18 boards a game for two seasons wasn't?

Good to see where your bias is lol. I just have one question? Is it the triple doubles that make it for you because the only thing lebron averages consistently more than jordan are assists. Rebounds and field goal percentage are negligible unless one rebound and one percent point is alot to u and mike has more championships, more mvps and more scoring titles, all defense noms and more finals mvps.

>when people don't buy LeBron as being better than Jordan he goes on a rant about Jordan not being as good as wilt chamberlin

Being from Cleveland is weird. I assume its like a passive aggressive cult.

No it fucking didn't lol. He was hampered by injuries then was consistently very good.

they both average .8 per game for their career, what are you talking about?

LeBron is the best all-around player ever who is also an all-time great scorer. This isn't really a debate anymore. The debate is whether MJ's superior scoring and defense trumps LeBron's all-around brilliance.

>derozan
the irony of this is that derozan is 90s basketball incarnate playing in 2018 and he is universally derided

I'm so glad you posted this. Maybe user can realize how fucking dumb he sounds.

Derozan is going to be in the HOF barring injury. He already has 13000 career points at age 28, and 20000 points makes you HOF lock.

>play on stacked ass team with the GOAT coach, a top 50 all time player in Pippen, Rodman as your 3rd wheel, great role guys like Harper and Steve Kerr, etc etc
Sure is easy to win on stacked teams against thinned out league due to expansion in the late 80's and early 90's.

Who's his toughest opponent? Washed up Magic? Old Bird? Stockton+Malone?

None of those teams had more than 2 prime all-star level guys.

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someone needs to make an updated graphic

So basically he's a better athlete? Probably. The goat basketball player though? Very debatable and lebron hasn't done anything to overtake Jordan.

I'm not from Cleveland nor do I necessarily think that Lebron is better than MJ, but context has always mattered in sports. It's why nobody considers the likes of Peyton Manning or Terry Bradshaw the goat QB

Football is different for me though. Because I'd put Aaron Rodgers over Brody and Pappa Pizza Peyton

In less minutes with less games Jordan had more blocks therefore got more per game. While as a guard.

lebron has never played with a defensive genius like scottie pippen. when jordan and pippen were together at their peak they were the two best perimeter defenders in the game and which was #1 was up for debate. so when you talk about the 90s bulls went 6-0 is because all of those teams had michael jordan AND scottie pippen on it. in other words, that 6-0 record cannot be attributed just to the genius of jordan. it happened because it was the genius of jordan combined with the genius of pippen (some would also argue the genius of jackson).

on the other hand, the entirety of lebron's finals streak and all of his titles can be attributed primarily to the genius of lebron.

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>His accolades don't have shit on Wilt
You mean Wilt's accolade of being the greatest choker ever?
Also a reminder: There is literally no (zero [0]) proofs that Wilt ever actually scored 100 points in a game.

Jordan ALREADY had a three peat with out Rodman. Phil Jackson is the goat coach but a player has to play either way. For the most part, jordan's team was pretty stacked but saying the league wasn't good at the time is fucking bs. If you're gonna ignore all the HOFers from that era, there's no debating u.

Wow i didn't know russel had ~40 finals mvp awards