So when Gandalf fell fighting the Balrog. How did they fall onto a mountain peak...

So when Gandalf fell fighting the Balrog. How did they fall onto a mountain peak? Is that why Middle Earth is called that? Did he fall to the top of Bottom Earth?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=DOQNGrUcK4c
youtube.com/watch?v=NDec7qo9Epc
massivelyop.com/2017/01/03/tolkien-prof-offers-free-lotro-course-starting-today/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Yes. The highest peak in Middle-Earth is the lowest depth of Top-Earth...

It goes into a full explanation if you would just look this shit up rather than grind your ass on a lubed up dragon dildo while waiting for replies.

The movie all but encourages this user. Even the extended edition.

so what happened?

They didn't fall there, they basically when down to the bottom of the world , and then up again, climbing a stair dwarves made in early days.

>We fought far under the living earth, where time is not counted. Ever he clutched me, and ever I hewed him, till at last he fled into dark tunnels. They were not made by Durin’s folk, Gimli son of Glóin. Far, far below the deepest delving of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day. In that despair my enemy was my only hope, and I pursued him, clutching at his heel. Thus he brought me back at last to the secret ways of Khazad-dûm: too well he knew them all. Ever up now we went, until we came to the Endless Stair.

Extended edition my ass. Why not show that!?!?

The Endless Stair is a Dwarven stucture that goes from the bottom of the Black Pit, the deepest point in Middle-Earth, all the way to the top of Mount Silvertine, the highest point in Middle-Earth.

Gandolf and the Balrog battled at the very deepest depth of Middle-Earth, and ascended the Endless Staircase all the way to the top of the highest mountain, where the battle ended.

Imagine if there was a mine several miles beneath the base of Mount Everest, and a staircase going from the mine to the summit.

I remember reading they actually planned to but it would have been way too long and they would have had to do a ton of production to create something ambiguous that also had little impact on the story.

they fell upward?

Can you not fucking read? They fell to the lowest point in Middle Earth and then ascended a stair case to the highest point.

The black pit isnt the deepest point in middle-earth and neither is mount silvertine the highest

No, they fell down to the Black Pit where the staircase begins, and then walked up the staircase to the top of the mountain.

when did they "ascend"? I didn't see them climbing stairs

Checkmate dumb atheist.

Cool. What are the extreme points then?

You mean the underworld, or the stair, or both?

For the underworld, one problem is that Tolkien never really described these beings that are supposedly older than Sauron (I think this is a simplification or way of speaking for Gandalf, since both he and Sauron are older than the concept of being itself). We have no idea how big these things are, what they look like, etc... but if it was up to me I'd say they are the beasts Melkor created in Utumno at the very beginning, before he messed with elves. The kraken thingy in front of Moria's door would count as one of these things.

Perhaps they could have made a scene of this, but how do you make the viewer understand that Gandalf is wandering for many days without making it a 10min+ scene and going off book territory?

Same for the stairs. How do you make a short convincing stair scene without it seeming like the climb is only a matter of a few minutes?

If you're thinking of Taniquetil, it's not on Middle-Earth.

Holy shit, so let me get this right. Gandalf and the Balrog fall so far they end up in a timeless, eldritch abyss of darkness underneath the entire middle earth, where unknown ancient monstrosities older than Sauron live, and somehow fight their way out, miles up, WHILE trying to kill eachother, keep fighting until they reach the peak with the entire battle lasting months in a cave, until they wind up at the peak and KO eachother? Jesus Gandalf had a hard life.

Tolkien left a metric shit ton of stuff unexplained. But also went to autistic lengths describing other things in his fiction.

Like you know those monsters the Nazgul ride? They don't even have names.

The Nazgul themselves were called by six different names in the books.

That's cool af. When Sauronman was trying to knock them off the mountain. Was the Redhorn guy they were waking up the Balrog?

They're called Fell-Beasts

Galadriel riverdanced them up the stairs on top of the mountain, of course

Very cool user.

If there's a hole through the world, you'd fall out on the other side. Obviously there was a mountain there, and they fought on it.

Imagine the Lovecraftian horrors sleeping in that water.

That isn't what they are called, that is the only descriptive line tolkien gave to them.

"They rode on fell beasts"

Or something along those lines, it was in their description but they don't have names and Tolkien never bothered to name them.

Yet Goblin wolf mounts were named Wargs.

Probably just octopuses with a ton of eyes like every other lovecraftian horror.

Metaphor for sodomy.

There are pictures in the search, but they look too scary for me. Honestly, no trolling I have a phobia of art that is too detailed. If there is something particularly spooky in pic and I don't notice it right away. I get very jarred when I do see it and I honestly had a seizure when I was young. Detailed space pics can trigger this as well.

Post 'em.

I don't keep that stuff user. Just looking at thumbnails gives me a feeling like I'm being mildly shocked.

#TRIGGERED

you're just a fag baka desu senpai

Man that's fucking amazing. The movies didn't do this fight justice.

>Gandalf v Balrog : The Movie

Fund it

>the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he
fucking NEATO.

How can they be older than Sauron if Sauron was a maiar and was basically in existence before all of creation along with all the major spirits.

Give me a link or something so I can google myself, then.

Sauron wasn't always Sauron. Gandolph the White is technically the youngest in ME.

Maybe Gandalf was a master ruseman and non of that actually happened

sportaldislexicartaphobia

Wow, you think the Dwarves would have put a hand rail on either side of that bridge.

>Uh oh, Gilwarli fell off the bridge
Is he dead?
>Never

Guess that the maiar have been talking shit this whole time and something existed before them

>sportaldislexicartaphobia
No way I'll google this shit, nigga.

thx, I'm on the watchlist

Lolfag

Tolkien is a hack vahahahaha
Not even Marvel would be so unrealistic holy fuck

>*rolls eyes*
>in english, doc.

Great Old Ones that existed before the universe was created.

The Valar were created first, I believe. And Eru Iluvitar created the world through the singing of the Valar, of which Melkor was one. Melkor sang dissonance in to the Song of Creation, and marred the world with corruption. I assume the elder horrors of the deep were caused by him.

I believe the Maiar, of which Sauron is one, as are Balrogs and the Wizards, were created after Arda.

Doesn't have to fucking make sense.
Gandalf is Jesus.

Probably from the same place that Ungoliant came from (the void that Morgoth was into called the door of night)

Gandalf the White should have had a giant booty from climbing so many stairs

I wonder what kind of eldritchian horror was through the door of night, and I wonder if Morgoth was terrified being chained up for eternity with that shit

why are LOTR threads so goddamn comfy?

You're not accounting for the beings like Ungoliant who is basically an inter dimensional evil entity. I figured they came through the door of night or something.

Ungoliant was definitely not Eru's creation and it certainly didn't come from Melkor's fall from grace.

Does pic related trigger you? pls respond

Musical montages are a great way to show passing of time

more Tolkien void shit

This is the most interesting stuff about Tolkien's legendarium desu, and he went into the least detail about it. I'd love to hear Christopher Tolkien's take on it.

Gonna keep posting Tolkien art don't mind me

Tell me about Ungoliant, are there other lovecraftian beings like it in Tolkien's universe?

We don't know but I really like the speculation of the beings at the bottom of the earth. Especially in the caverns seen here "The true origin of Ungoliant is unknown, and was not even known by the Valar. It is said by some that she came from the Darkness itself that lies about Arda and was once an ally of Melkor when he looked down upon the world with envy. Later, she changed her allegiance from him to herself, desiring only to be a mistress of her own insatiable craving to devour all light, to feed her everlasting emptiness."

I'd also speculate Tom Bombadil is one of these beings.

Maybe, though I've never read anything suggeting that. In the Silmarillion. Melkor was "fallen" from the first singing of Creation. Tolkien literally describes it as dissonant singing. Had there been perfect harmony as they were singing Creation into being, Creation would theoretically been perfect. But Melkor didn't want to sing the same tune as the other Valar. However, every time he sang a dissonant note, Eru somehow resolved it, and wove it into the melody.

It's Tolkien's "problem of evil" meditation.

Anyway, Melkor is responsible for creating the monsters of the world, as they are corruptions, abominations of Creation itself.

This is a good lecture on the subject:
youtube.com/watch?v=DOQNGrUcK4c
youtube.com/watch?v=NDec7qo9Epc

Fuck man these threads are so cool

Ah, yes. So Ungoliant does sound like some kind of pre-creation void entity. That would still make her older than Sauron, along with any other pre-creation void monsters. But any monsters OF Arda, created in the corruption of the world would also be older than Sauron.

how are there so many lotr experts on this board

every single thread there's like 10 of em

Shit man I'd be terrified just existing in that universe and knowing there's shit like this somewhere

Will watch these, thanks.

Is there anything known about The New Shadow (LOTR sequel set in the Fourth Age)/Dagor Dagorath? I'd love to see what Tolkien was working on since it probably involved a lot of occultism and I'd like to see Tolkien's darker side (he said it was too dark and depressing, which is saying a lot considering what he wrote for the rest of the legendarium).

it's probably always the same 10 anons though. Every single fucking thread I learn something insanely interesting about LOTR that makes me like it more

>tfw you just want to rock out but everyone around you are church choirs

I legit have a degree in Tolkien Studies lmao. These threads are always great and I always seem to hop on the couple nights they seem to pop up a year.

I highly recommend joining one of those classes held by the professor that uses Lord of the Rings Online to teach his lectures (on the Landroval server which is the best server in any MMO ever). He knows his shit better than anyone I've ever met.

massivelyop.com/2017/01/03/tolkien-prof-offers-free-lotro-course-starting-today/

it probably is

i read pretty much every post in every other lotr thread and i can recognize some of the writing styles.

a book about melkor returning from the void to bring about the end/rebirth of the world?

Is there even any lore deeper than LOTR? Is it even possible? Serious question

"I did begin a story placed about 100 years after the Downfall, but it proved both sinister and depressing. Since we are dealing with Men, it is inevitable that we should be concerned with the most regrettable feature of their nature: their quick satiety with good. So that the people of Gondor in times of peace, justice and prosperity, would become discontented and restless — while the dynasts descended from Aragorn would become just kings and governors — like Denethor II or worse. I found that even so early there was an outcrop of revolutionary plots, about a centre of secret Satanic religion; while Gondor boys were playing at being Orcs and going around doing damage. I could have written a 'thriller' about the plot and its discovery and overthrow — but it would have been just that. Not worth doing."
—The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter 256

It sounds eerily similar to certain trends in our own culture. But no, I don't think there's ever been more than a page or two on the subject. Obviously, it's safe to say that evil itself was not destroyed with Sauron. It's still part of Creation thanks to Melkor, and always will be.

Shame Christopher Tolkien never did it to tie up loose ends and give closure.

To be honest, I'm surprised Hollywood hasn't tried their hand at any Fourth Age content. They may not have the rights to The Silmarillion but they have access to hundreds of years post LOTR through the appendices

Probably Warhammer. I don't know much about it but I do know that there's hundreds of books and that's without mentioning 40K.

"Thus spoke Mandos in prophecy, when the Valar sat in judgement in Valinor and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers have grown weary, Morgoth, the Black Foe of the World, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of the Night out of the Timeless Void; and all shall be darkness, for the sun he will turn to black, and the moon will no longer shed his light.. But the Host of Valinor shall descend upon him as a searing flame, white and terrible. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day, Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eönwë, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, returning from the Doom of Men at the ending of the world; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the Children of Húrin and all fallen Men be avenged."

At least we got Children of Hurin I guess :^)

It's less disappointing when you consider that WE are in the Fourth Age now. You can take it as a literary statement on our own circumstance, and our own part to play in the story of the world.

Show a shot of them fighting at the foot of spiral stairs, then show a worms eye view of that stair case that seems to go on forever, then cut to a shot of them tired as fuck fighting just at the end of the top of said stairs into that summit where balrog is finally slain.

I remember an user that posted the whole of LOTR history in a tl:dr way, kind cool storytelling format with neat lotr pics some years ago.
I regret not screencaping those posts.

>Warhammer
Nah, i would consider WH wide since there's numerous authors working on it so there's alot of happenings at the same time, but the lore itself is shallow.

I would do it myself but I'm too much of an autist to leave out details. I'd probably end up writing a research paper or something by the time it is done.

Just hang out in some Tolkien Facebook groups, read some wiki articles, have questions you want answered, google them and you can catch on even without reading The Silmarillion (which I TOTALLY understand why people wouldn't want to).

The audio book is narrated by Christopher Lee. The book actual reads better out loud in my opinion. Check it out.

Lotr is probably the comfyest part of tv for me

I think the battle lasted like 2 weeks.

A friend of mine told me the story of the two lovers aragorn was singing about, I think they were an elf man that was the predecessor to the dunedine or something like that and the girl was an elf. I don't remember the story that much but they go off and fight all these mini bosses of melkor and something about the evening star

who needs closure when when you have melkor back in his natural habitat (playing with the unformed ooze of creation) with all those partially realized void honey's and Earandil hooning around in vingilot being a cunt, shitting things up.

Not sure if i like this ending but Hurin and Turin really did get the short end of the stick compared to Huor and his heirs.

Don't want to sound edgy but the idea that Melkor did nothing wrong is too aesthetically pleasing.

The Elder Scrolls has pretty in depth lore.

They fight werewolf Sauron and his vampire buddy

TES lore went to shit when Kirkbride left.

I love that there's a lot of unexplained stuff.

Look at what happened to Star Wars. Tolkien dying and no Hollywood jew having the rights to extend on his work is the best thing that could have happened to lotr.

I was literally jumping out of my seat and air punching whilst reading beren and luthien.

rip finrod :*^(

That's not the way it works though. He sold LOTR and that contains appendices detailing hundreds of years after LOTR

Hollywood Jews could do Shadow of Mordor: the movie if they wanted to. I don't know why they aren't desu

well fuck,I just was assuming nobody had the rights because we don't have a new LOTR movie every year

Are you literally mentally retarded?

What is the definitive LOTR video game?

BftME 1 and 2. I don't know how well they've aged, but the games were excellent.

It's been years since I saw it but I could swear the shot of them on the mountain wasn't just them fighting, there was also a shot of them falling and landing on it (as if they fell through the mines and landed on the mountain top).

May be misremembering, though.

>Is there even any lore deeper than LOTR?

Game of Thrones
Discworld
The Bible

The list goes on

So is the hobbit worth watching?

I honestly just imagine great worms slowly gnawing the Earth itself. They would essentially be the clock ticking on the world that no one can do anything about.

>Melkor sang dissonance in to the Song of Creation, and marred the world with corruption. I assume the elder horrors of the deep were caused by him.

This is how it works in my own headcannon. From the interference in the waves of the song, spawned "unintented" by Eru creatures. Like Ungoliant, I also place Tom Bombadil in this catagory.

>Oldest
This was what the elves called him, because he was there befor they were and not neccesarily oldest character
>Fatherless
As an unintended creation, between melkor and the rest of the valar's song, he could well be considered fatherless. No one specifically created him.