The Sokovia Accords is fucking stupid and Stark is an idiot

So let me get this straight:

Stark wants The Avengers to follow the Sokovia Accords, which allows countries to dictate the actions of The Avengers.

But if those 117 countries that signed the Accords included North Korea, Eritrea and other countries with horrible human rights records,

That pretty much means that The Avengers are doing work approved by Third World dictatorships.

That's kind of scary.

This means that if North Korea has its own supervillain threatening the country, The Avengers (an American-based team) has to respond to that in accordance with the accords, which means that The Avengers are helping to ensure the existence of a dictatorship for the next few decades.

I don't want superheroes doing dirty work for dictatorships. The reason why The Sokovia Accords happened was because it allows countries to force superheroes to do dirty work for them.

Last month, The UN held a meeting about the problems with the War on Drugs and while countries like the USA, Mexico, Canada and Colombia said that the current laws do not work, in the end the UN still pushes for the same drug laws because countries like China and Russia managed to veto any discussion on reforming drug laws. Why should we trust China and Russia with superheroes when we can't even trust them in reforming drug laws?

It blows my mind that Tony Stark is willing to allow countries like Saudi Arabia and China to rule over The Avengers. That's the problem. Yes, superheroes can be dangerous on their own, but superheroes whose acts are sanctioned by dictatorships are WORSE.

Is Tony Stark a fucking idiot? He's basically selling Captain America to North Korea with The Sokovia Accords.

Tony let's his emotions and issues control him too much.

It's almost like he enjoys feeling responsible for bad things and feeling guilty

He needs a fucking therapist.

Doc Samson or even Dr.Bong

No two people can be this stupid.

So tell me why countries like Saudi Arabia dictating the actions of The Avengers is a good thing.

It is strange they didn't make more of a point of that. I understand not mentioning China by name to not interfere with the box office and not mentioning North Korea by name because of The Interview, but Cap is still really vague about his actual objections.

Stark's entire superhero career has always been driven by guilt.

Imagine if he was raised by Jewish relatives

Looking at Stark's HUD just reminds me of a question; is JARVIS ever coming back or are we going to be listening to FRIDAY from now on?

The movie states that the sanctions had to be a approved by the UN before the Avengers actually engage not one single country you fucking idiot. The Avengers can't be biased on who or what they should save in times of crisis so whether they have to dispatched on North Korea doesn't change the fact that they're an entirely neutral party.
Cap doesn't want to be told whether or not its okay to save someone that's why OP is a fucking retard. The argument he makes is that bad shit is going to happen regardless and they should take responsibility not leave it to the government to be their lapdogs as penitence.

"OY VEY CAP THAT'S ANTISEMITIC REMEMBER THE 6 GOYRILLION"

JARVIS is Vision

Because Saudi Arabia wouldn't be able to do so on their own. They would need the support of other countries. And the point wasn't to make it so that any and all problems any nation has, the Avengers get sent in.

Also, just because they are dictatorships, it doesn't mean that every single decision they could possibly make politically is evil. Saddam Hussain did wonders for tackling illiteracy for example.

The point of the Sokovia Accords wasn't to give the UN its own superhuman taskforce, it was to give accountability to an independent, lets face it, military organisation.

The point was so that when this group of superpowered people just ups and decides to intervene in something, like they did in Lagos, that they have permission from an international body so that when your loved ones are killed as a result of their Avenging, you're not just expected to suck it up, deal with it and move on.

It's to stop the Avengers from doing whatever the fuck they want with no consequences when it all goes tits up.

Despite this, I'm still pro Cap

Christ you're dumb

We don't know what the Sokovia Accord says exactly. It's a large book with all kinds of info. The only thing that we know is that 117 signed the Accord and that the Avenger ought to be controlled, but we don't know under which condition.

>Stark wants The Avengers to follow the Sokovia Accords, which allows countries to dictate the actions of The Avengers.

>But if those 117 countries that signed the Accords included North Korea, Eritrea and other countries with horrible human rights records,

>That pretty much means that The Avengers are doing work approved by Third World dictatorships.

Are you fucking stupid?

>That pretty much means that The Avengers are doing work approved by Third World dictatorships.
>That's kind of scary.

I don't see how it's scarier than superheroes doing work approved by non-dictatorships. Unless we're talking about a fantasy version of the US that actually cares about democracy and world peace.

Also: the UN is actually the only institution that decides whether or not the Avengers should intervene in crisis....es... or not.

>The movie states that the sanctions had to be a approved by the UN before the Avengers actually engage not one single country you fucking idiot. The Avengers can't be biased on who or what they should save in times of crisis so whether they have to dispatched on North Korea doesn't change the fact that they're an entirely neutral party.

The problem though is that "The UN" is comprised of 200 nations and all have dumb shitty agendas.

Imagine if The Avengers have to find a Hydra cell in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia can just call in a "no vote" and convince every other Sunni nation to call in "no" and then lobby the US congress and the British Parliament to vote "no" in dispatching the Avengers which results in a veto.

That's pretty much what The Sokovia Accords will do. It's a bureaucratic red tape that will the Avengers' work much more useless.

I used to work for UNICEF, and every single call for UN peacekeepers to Darfur gets shot down by the US under the lobbying of Saudi Arabia and other Sunni nations. The Sokovia Accords will be exactly that.

Well, the US does not starve its citizens nor arrests journalists into work camps

>Also, just because they are dictatorships, it doesn't mean that every single decision they could possibly make politically is evil. Saddam Hussain did wonders for tackling illiteracy for example.

But North Korea and Eritrea does not have Saddam.

And besides, there's China. China can VETO the Avengers into doing anything that China wants. That's the fear surrounding the Sokovia Accords.

BEST KOREA doesn't even have a seat on the UN security council you dumb fuck. It never has.

But Best Korea has CHINA as an ally, and a lot of issues with the Nuclear talks came from China supporting North Korea.

If Kim Jong Un wants Black Widow to be his personal sex slave, he can just bribe Xi Jingping to veto that shit in The Security Council. That's how they got DHL to operate in North Korea.

I don't think the MCU does too much real world political shenanigans, they already had enough goofiness with everyone is fucking Hydra. The movies aren't the only things that go on in the universe, they have other-worldly threats on Agents of Shield and stuff so I would guess they would ignore the real life political bickering mostly.

My point was that not every single possible decision made by a dictatorship is inherently evil, just like every decision made by a democracy is inherently good. Way to miss it user.

>Ultron is going to destroy humanity and turn the world into his playground
>Okay I'll call a meeting of the member states to discuss the Avengers intervening in the Sovokian situation. We should have this resolved and approved in the next two weeks.

>If Kim Jong wants Black Widow to be his personal sex slave

Right, now I know you're a fucking moron.

Also, China aren't as pally pally with NK as you might think. Yes they are allies, and yes China publicly supports them, but that doesn't mean they bend over backwards to help them every time they ask for something.

China doesn't need Best Korea, but Best Korea certainly needs them.

Learn to international politics user.

>government lets one dude infiltrate their facility and get a damn interview with their most high profile prisoner
>tony says the avengers need to be overseen by these people

No JARVIS is never coming back, he's part of Vision now.

>As you all know the entirety of our world peacekeeping force was recently co-opted by a sinister Nazi organisation in an attempt to set up a fascistic world regime
>That's behind us now and I'll glad, Tony, that you're in agreement with us there is no way any of them could possibly still compromise us or that ever happen again. It's with great pleasure that I put all of the people who stopped that happening directly under the control of a new government organisation

>China can VETO the Avengers into doing anything that China wants

I don't think you understand what "veto" means.

>If Kim Jong Un wants Black Widow to be his personal sex slave, he can just bribe Xi Jingping to veto that shit in The Security Council.
>Whelp Natasha, I know this goes against the universal declaration of human rights, but China have spoken

This is quite possibly the stupidest statement I've read on here in regards to how international political relations work, and I occasionally browse Sup Forums

Well done.

Dude, i do learn intpol. I WORKED IN ONE!

And no, the NK-China hostility is just smoke and mirror. Behind the scenes, China-NK relationship is still special like US-Israel relationship.

China does not want NK refugees and the USFK near the Yalu River.

>Implying China cares about the universal declaration of human rights

No, but the rest of the UN do you mad fuck.

Then why do you not seem to understand what a veto is?

>Tony, Ross here recently created an uncontrollable metahuman thread in direct opposition to a member of the Avengers. I think you'll understand why he's the right choice to be the Avengers' contact under the Accords.

I've seen vetoes being used for dumb shit by SC members on behalf of other countries.

The UN Security Council is basically as stupid as The US Congress.

Race to the bottom with some of their shit like getting pissy at online bullies, video games, or anmie or whatever that shit was.
I would guess MCU UN aren't the complete mouth-breathers that real life UN is, still occasionally corrupt of course but not fucking Saudi Arabia is head of human rights watch retarded.

>I would guess MCU UN aren't the complete mouth-breathers that real life UN is
That's an assumption I'm not about to make.

Do you want the plots to get even dumber or more convoluted?

No. But I assume they will anyway

I thought it was the UN Security Council who could approve Avenger action, not the whole General Assembly?

This could be solved if the Avengers had become a NATO organization instead of a UN one. This keeps Russia and China from having a say while still making them accountable to oversight.

The whole concept of the Accords was iffy and vaguely described to begin with, and should probably not be taken at face value (for instance, do any of the world governments have any actual leverage on the Avengers to begin with? Aren't the Avengers more like a company now than a government organization? Hell, I don't think Vision even has a nationality...)

Like the technobabble in all Marvel movies, think of it more as a tool to show Tony's growing persecution complex, and try not to look to hard at the whole deal.

>WE NEED TO BE PUT IN CHECK
>but before that let me do several unchecked things

tony is pretty complex

Why the fuck do you keep using the word veto if you're gonna use it wrong?

Tony just wanted a situation where someone else could be blame for his fuckups. That's what the Accords were for

Also Tony was saying they'd iron out the details afterwards too or something.
If an incident occurs that is far worse that the Avengers would clearly have been able to contain better they'd obviously have a lot of leverage in making the UN or whatever control group is assigned to grant them some flexibility, which I imagine is going to be the case before Infinity War, they have 5 movies I think before then or something.

He wants to put power in the hands of people who were going nuke New York

He wants to put power in the hands of people, a bunch of whom are probably Hydra or have links to Hydra

Cap mentions neither of these things.

>He wants to put power in the hands of people who were going nuke New York
that one really bothered me
like what the hell tony

The way he says that "agendas change" makes me think he was referring to wishy-washy Western powers anyway. Besides, it's places like America that are provably prone to Hydra infiltration, not North Korea.

>Hell, I don't think Vision even has a nationality...

Birthright American citizen!
Suck it, Trumpies.

I would think most of those people were dealt with after Winter Soldier.

Either way, he's still handing power over to Ross of all people. A fairly obvious villain.

But he was made in South Korea, America is just where he was turned on.

>a bunch of whom are probably Hydra
The release of the Hydra files left only a few people like the covert Russian agent out there, and he was hardly active, he was a paranoid guy in a shitty house jumping at shadows.

With 117 nations signing, that means that at LEAST 79 nations weren't involved, as Marvel has several more nations than the real world.

The Avengers would end up answering to the UN Security Council, the same body that has tried to control them from the start, except now Fury isn't active to run interference for them.

This thread is terrible, the OP is dumb as fuck, and someone needs to make a better thread with a less idiotic OP.

Life doesn't start at conception in New York, user. It fits.

Birthright citizen as fuck.

Having the UN in charge of you to do anything is code for"we don't want you to do anything"

The World Security Council isn't the UN Security Council.

The World Security Council is a made up thing that allows the Marvel Universe to use the member nations of the Security Council but "lol not really".

but you're alright with them doing dirty work for the american dictatorships?

Listen to me, just because you have a nice car and an ipod doesn't mean it's not a dictatorship.

>"Guys, the super heroes will clearly do what is right every time"
>"Guys, just trust us, okay?"

We don't even allow people to carry pea-shooters and have rudimentary authority over other people without burring them in red-tape. Why the fuck should we let people will super powers and WMD weapons waltz around doing whatever the fuck they want.

We might as well just let people maintain private armies and let them decide for themselves when and where to use it.

>"North Korea can just bribe China"

Are you 12 years old?

You do know that NK gets basically all their shit FROM China, right? They basically don't produce anything.

>We don't even allow people to carry pea-shooters ... without burring them in red-tape.

Sounds like someone isn't living the American Lifestyle

My point wasn't really about CARRYING them more about how they're allowed to actually use them.

That is, a police officer has far greater leniency to shoot a nig than Schmoe Average.

The fact that he seemed to think that China could make someone Kim Jongs sex slave is far more solid proof that they are 12 years old. NK bribing China is just the icing on that shit cake

Jeez. It's like this movie was just begging to invite Sup Forums to Sup Forums.

Why do people who save the planet need to be regulated by the UN? There a shitload of countries in the UN and a lot of them are run by corrupt governments. Doesn't it make more sense to let them do their own thing instead?

The Avengers independently doing cool shit makes the nations of the world feel smaller in the pants, so they gotta try to be all assertive and shit and chimp out with the Accords.

>UN security council

They explicitly state that it isn't the security council making the decisions about when to call in the Avengers.

Did no one party attention to the fucking movie? Or are you being retarded on purpose?

i wonder if any of those countries are Latveria, Stark...

you know there isnt

makes me wonder with all the shit the universe is lacking who do they even have in the raft prison

But the security council members have veto power over any action the UN takes, unless the Accord is a specific exception. Which makes no sense.

Abomination probably.

This whole ordeal is dealt with wayy more smoothly in Daredevil S2 (basically same storyline, just replace stark with DD and Cap America with Punisher; DD wants the justice system to have the last word, while Punisher is a vigilante).

and also, in NO UNIVERSE is Cap. America right in the argument. he basically wants all supers to be unregulated and only dealt with when the time comes. That is the kind of shit that gets millions of people killed
>wah wah muh Bucky
>wah wah muh friendz

btw can I just say, that that scene in the prison was completely unecessary. Why the fuck would Disney go out of their way to antagonize Stark when EVERYONE that was imprisoned was imprisoned due to their own stupidity?

>The movie states that the sanctions had to be a approved by the UN

Remind me, user, which two authoritarian governments have permanent seats on the UN security council which would, presumably, need to authorize any Avengers mission?

>I know they've saved humanity from destruction several times but can we really trust them to do the right thing? The UN is much more trustworthy

but isnt he a gamma vilain and dont they go to the cube?
though i guess the other prison dont exist like the big house and the other one

so like is the raft even that big a deal in the absence of all the other prisons?

>But the security council members have veto power over any action the UN takes

Then why would Ross mention it at all?

>Tony nearly ends the world with artificial intelligence
>nobody else does anything bad aside from Wanda
>WE NEED TO BE PUT IN CHECK

Why didn't Tony just submit himself to government oversight on his projects, since he was clearly the only problem?

>It's a "The general populace can see into the Avengers' minds" episode
>It's a "If people do a good thing then we should give them unlimited authority to do whatever they want forever" episode
>It's a "If people mean well then they could surely NEVER do anything harmful" episode
>It's a "I'm a literal fucking toddler" episode

Swallow a dick. Cap is right, Cap is always fucking right. Cap is never in a situation where he is wrong.

Reminder that Tony was literally the only one with the problem, and projected his internal demons onto everyone else.

>abloo bloo bloo Hulk killed two people with rubble while saving the world from aliens, someone stop this madman!

AoU was literally all Tony's fault, and if he's so concerned about his actions he should have just submitted himself to government oversight. Banner and Thor have done literally nothing wrong.

is the daredevil's activity supervised by a governing body?

... and im pretty sure that argument in DD was about justifying killing bad guys. Zemo appeared to be alive to me. Loki is still alive as well.

In the comics he'd go to the cube but until they introduce any of the other prisons I just assume they all go to the Raft...well the ones that survive anyway. How many MCU villains are actually still alive?

They saved the world from Aliens.

They saved the world from Ultron. Or are you going to assume that everyone knew Tony made Ultron straight away?

One of them is literally a national hero, probably above the Level that Sir Winston Churchill is to the British.

>Implying that the US army doesn't do some shady as fuck shit sometimes, and yet people still support our troops to the point that criticising the military openly could get your ass kicked
>Implying that after saving the world twice, they wouldn't be viewed in the same way

They are the heroes of the entire planet. If you can't trust the people who have saved the human race multiple times, can you trust the UN?

>It's a "The government and general populace should act on information they haven't been given" Episode
>It's a "The government and general populace should unquestioning accept information they have no way to verify" Episode
>It's a "They haven't done anything bad or abusive yet so that means they never ever could" Episode
>It's a "I think this is only about collateral damage" Episode
>It's a "I'm still a literal toddler goo goo ga ga where's that nipple?" Episode

Red Skull isn't dead, just.....Somewhere thanks to the Cube

The real Mandarin is out there somewhere, so is Trevor

Loki is still about

Thanos

Zemo

The Collector could be seen as something of a villain.

Claw is still alive

> not able to admit he made any wrong decisions
so how's Pepper doin', Tony?

Banner is at fault for being a limpwristed pussy who went with Tony's ideas just because he said so. Banner knew it was a bad idea, but he helped Tony make Ultron anyways.

Who said anything about the government's knowledge? I'm saying that if Tony was so concerned, he should have submitted himself to oversight and not forced everyone else to as well.

I'm sure Russia and China will be very eager to vote yea on allowing the Avengers to intervene in humanitarian crises in their client states.

but who is in the raft besides abomination?

zemo isnt even at the fucking cube. they have him in a box at berlin chilling with the hobbit

If some supervillain was threatening the North Korean people I'm sure the Avengers will want to help anyway, even though it extends the dictatorship. Lesser of two evils and all that.

And Abomination, Nebula and several others.

I don't understand this meme, it's Batmanslaughter who kills most of his enemies.

zemo isnt at the raft i meant

To be fair, Best Korea would probably have supermen of their own. Vastly inferior supermen, but supermen none the less

Downey Jr has said recently that he's bringing back Gweneth Paltrow into the MCU.

What have the avengers done that warrants oversight like this, Wanda fucked with the Avengers and they forgave her but I'm struggling to think of her as anything but an accomplice.Sure she should be held accountable though. The only other Avenger that's fucked up is Tony and now he's saying that the team fucked up, He's the only one to causes the problems they fight. New York was an alien invasion and without the Avengers the city would have been nuked which still wouldn't stop it. Washington was secret Nazis which clearly wasn't cap's Falcon's or Black Widow's fault. Sokovia was all on Stark and Banner and even then mostly Stark because he bullied his reluctant toadie into it.

And the Leader

And Justin Hammer

More than I thought then I still wish we had more though, it feels a little hollow without more vilains.

Zemo is just a guy with superior internet skills.
Why would he be at the raft?
The human Avengers are at the raft not because they can't be held otherwise, but because they have friends like The Hulk and Thor.

Rescue when?

Zola could potentially come back, if they made a copy of his brain or something

With Zola taunting them with the whole "cut of a head" thing, he's certainly got himself a backup.

He had access to the the wider world, after all.