Captain America, libertarian?

So I've seen many people claim that Steve Rogers is a libertarian, these claims come both from libertarians themselves and from butthurt liberals on Salon and other sites. Mostly based on his movie incarnation.
Is there any truth to it?

I'm pretty sure he's actually quite a big fan of government stepping in to help with poverty and sickness and shit.

Libertarians just say that because he's CAPTAIN AMERICA and that means sharing his political beliefs make you more AMERICAN.

He's a New Deal Democrat, so no.

What is a libertarian? I only ever hear the word in regards to america or americans.

No, Cap is an FDR democrat if anything. I mean he's a young kid in Brooklyn during the 1940s

Nope. New Deal Democrat.

A rich anarchist.

Someone who wants as little government as possible.

In Civil War they wrote him more like that, but no.

Basically, a guy that believes that the government shouldn't do anything but the barest of minimums and let the free market deal with everything. No army, almost no police, no social services, no interference in anyone's lives.

By today's denocrat standards
Everything past 80s is right wing

Well that's just ridiculously unfeasible.

I know, there's a reason libertarian states have never existed. Unless you count Somalia, but libertarians would rather not bring that up in discussions.

>taxtation is theft
>government should make no laws about markets
>companies should be let do whatever they want
>poor people deserve to die because they don't add anything, also not my problem I am only here to make more money
>free market is everything
>outsourcing jobs to third world countries is fair because companies are supreme
>having immigrants steal jobs is fine too
>open borders are fine
>state should be very little because reasons
>police and military are bad because they are the armed thugs of the "oppressive state"

no one really follows them for a reason, these are the same people that think companies will fight echother constantly and draw prices down instead of forming a cartel like it always happens if anti-trust laws aren't enacted

It's a very contentious political ideal that a lot of people jump on.

Anything you want, since you play edgy and never do anything of real impact on the real world

It's more just jarring characterization since he's basically taking the opposite position that he held in First Avenger and Winter Soldier, going from humble soldier understanding when the powers that be need to be reigned in, to Civil War where he's adamant that his Avengers should be beholden to no one.

Which is why most people grow out of libertarianism after high school

No, he's had to literally deal with the people in charge of them to throw in the towel and nuke a major city or be infiltrated by nazis and try to commit genocide with giant war machines, even the accords were being administered by Ross who is a flatout criminal that only avoided punishment by shifting blame and backroom politics.

He has a reason to be leery of such things, and even then he was willing to play ball to Tony with signing the thing until he learned of shit like what they were doing to Wanda just because she's not American.
THAT SHIT AIN'T FREEDOM user!

>having immigrants steal jobs is fine too
>open borders are fine
>police and military are bad because they are the armed thugs of the "oppressive state"
See, I think I'm a libertarian, but I'm not on board with these three things. I'm probably gonna end up voting for Trump in November.

He's a New Deal democrat. Big FDR guy

I'm not sure you watched the same movie as me, he seemed pretty unhappy with the powers that be creating flying death machines in TWS

>libertarian who will be voting for Trump and is against free movement of labor
Are you trying to be a parody?

Yeah, hell nobody in the Raft got a trail.

That sounds like a nonsensical mix of right and left wing ideas (at least the ones in my country).

somebody who believes that governments are bad but everything is okay as long as a corporation does it

he joined the army and fought in WW2
if he was a libertarian he would have stayed home selling bullets to both sides to make more money

user, please. I can't deal with this post.

not an argument

>>government should make no laws about markets
>>companies should be let do whatever they want
But, then they are just trading a single government for overpowering multiple corporations, which are far more soulless with no reason to care for the population in their pursuit of pure profit.
And why do they think only state officials can oppress with their 'armed thugs'? A powerful enough company is basically just a nation unto itself.

How could anyone sit down and think this is a good idea?

Someone who wants to be able to be a cunt with no consequences.

Correct, I wasn't trying to make one.

It's not a coincidence that the USA is the only important country with an actual libertarian movement

It gets very convoluted man. Do you think governments exercise power responsibly? What about the influence of corporations on governments, which can allow those corporations to avoid blame or financial failure?

It's not a philosophy I agree with but an educated libertarian will not usually have the exact viewpoint "fuck the people" that is being portrayed ITT.

Political philosophy which places the preservation of individual liberty as the primary objective of governance, as opposed to, say, justice or communal equality.

The previous strawmanning replies assume the end result of any political philosophy is domination instead of the reality that with 7 billion fucking people on the planet, disparate philosophies of anything will only ever act as balances against all the others.

Stephan pls, An-Cap is even worse

because in a "free market" competing companies will keep eachother down or something and the market will remove the ones that damage the buyers

Because they don't think of anyone but the government as capable of oppression.

Please point to a successful libertarian state.
Also crying about strawmen is not an argument.

He's not. Marvel writers are, and they make him do dumbass libtard shit though.

I suspect it's more that government are capable of oppression on a singularly massive scale.

>because in a "free market" competing companies will keep eachother down or something and the market will remove the ones that damage the buyers
lol

WHY DO NORMIE SHITS WHO DON'T READ COMICS KEEP POSTING THIS PIC

It's nothing more than a Mark twain quote

This.

The ones who think about it that simply are either uneducated and like it in principle, or just want to get away with shit and fuck anyone else

>ompeting companies will keep eachother down or something and the market will remove the ones that damage the buyers
yeah that one is bollocks

>all these soundbites ITT
Not a libertarian, but this is just a lot of shit. Liberty above all isn't necessarily an invalid political ideal, and a political ideal doesn't necessarily have to be realistic to inform criticism of policy.

The US used to have completely free immigration - when it didn't have a welfare state. Libertarian perspectives can be useful as a tool for analysis. Governments do oppress and intervene on the freedom of people (even people who are not their citizens) worldwide, and governments and corporations in bed with each other do allow awful corporations to thrive and survive.

What about this?

>yfw they recast Cap for Cap 4 but he's an asshole and halfway through the movie Evans shows up and gives this speech

> Liberty above all isn't necessarily an invalid political ideal
X above all is always a shitty way of thinking, shit is more complex than that

>Evans turns up at a Trump rally and gives this speech

Yeah, we are the losers for sticking to systems that have worked since today.
We shoul drop them and go full libertarian because it's the less popular system between the "accepted" ones.

But how does removing power from the government in all areas and letting the corrupt corporations cut loose and run wild help anyone?

Modern large-scale civilization needs a framework to keep running as well. Yanking it away and expecting it to keep standing is pretty illogical.

i forgot how good this speech is

That's true in reality, but as a driving mission statement freedom above all for everyone is easily the ideology I'm most sympathetic to. I didn't come to that from libertarianism but from Soviet writers in Stalinist Russia.

>police and military are bad because they are the armed thugs of the "oppressive state"

Most libtards I've met believe the military is the most important thing the government should do.

>How could anyone sit down and think this is a good idea?
Because the people who come up with these ideas expect to be at the top or are already at the top

>implying corporations can't oppress people even without the governement

Everywhere else it's called a liberal, in america liberal means progressive though so they needed to make up a new word for it.
Yeah it's confusing.

That's not what I'm trying to argue at all. Do our systems work today? For everyone? Have governmental systems always worked historically?

Libertarian perspectives typically involve removing a lot of protections for corporations along with reducing government influence (and plenty of libertarians would argue those two things go hand in hand). As I said though, it's not a political movement that I personally believe in.

Nozick argues that the responsibility of a government should be to ensure the safety of its people, yeah.

no need when you can hire private security and PMC

But he is a second generation Irish American

The fact that you have to call your own ideas "strawmanning" because they sound psychotic is pretty telling tbqh

Yeah, I wish it was as well known as the 'No u move' one.

Your reading comprehension is shit. The point of my post is that "a Libertarian state" isn't necessarily the end goal of advocating for libertarian policy positions. Only autists deal in absolutes.

Most of those are descriptions, not arguments.

edited

The point is that you had no point.
Libertarianism as a whole is such a fringe philosophy that no wonder isn't taken seriously, applying some of its apscet is possible but it doesn't validate libertarianism. Just like having some social net doesn't validate full blown socialism.

nah. Cap would probably be for anything that gives people equality/equity so yknow pro gay marriage and that shit. though he'd probably be the kind of guy that says "all lives matter"

It's more that libertarians are basically American Republicans but with the church replaced with the Free Market, and Americans love the military industrial complex because it's a huge handout to companies.

They also hate the idea of paying even a dollar more in taxes, even if it saves them $100 later because it's their god-given right to let companies shit on them.

I know Sup Forums aint the place for this, but have Libertarians/communists/anarchists ever considered that there is a practical reason why no "true" versions of these states existed?

No. No one who has ever ascribed to or even just thought about these ideologies has ever considered that. You are the first.

That just makes it easier to argue it would cause you got no proof it hasn't. Apart from communists, who then say well that wasn't true communism

>though he'd probably be the kind of guy that says "all lives matter"

cap's not a fucking dumb asshole.

Switzerland
Hong Kong.

libertarianism =//= anarcho capitalism

Yeah, cause all those dummies did it wrong!

what's dumb or assholish about caring about all lives?

Sounds like what we call around here a "Neoliberal", basically they say the Free Market is always right.

Commies in my country usually blame the gringo boogieman for the fall of the Soviet Union and East Germany, and when there is a case of human rights violation in an alleged communist state, they ignoring it saying that "'there are not really communists" even if they previously praised them

ITT: People confuse anarcho-capitalism with libertarianism

Jesus christ you retards. Libertarians still want government. It's only idiotic anarcho capitalists who think things could work with no government at all.

This Most Libertarians are dumb as rocks. The rest insist that there's no libertarian paradise because big bad government is afraid that when people see how good liberty and no taxes are they'll bootstrap themselves away to Galt's Gulch.

I think there have been a few Libtard attempts at communes- one was on a raft or something (sank), one was some kind of landgrab out west (which I think ended up with undrinkable water or some shit) and Somalia (became Somalia.)

>Unless you count Somalia, but libertarians would rather not bring that up in discussions.

It's almost like because it's not actually a libertarian state.

It's the same fucking thing you dumbshit 14-year old.

One of them is just a scarier sounding name for you to pin all the things that sound bad about your ideology on.

I really wish people knew the difference between libertarian and anarchic- cap

I believe the government should exist just in very limited ways according to the constitution

Jesus christ are you retarded

Being a libertarian does not mean you have to carry out the belief to a radical extreme. Those are anarchists/anarcho-capitalists.

This. If it was a Libertarian state it would work. :^)

If it's bad then they clearly didn't do it right

>It's the same fucking thing you dumbshit 14-year old.
It's not you thick skulled cunt. Read before you talk out of your ass.

That was sarcasm my friend.

I'm not falling for that bait

No, because Hong Kong and Switzerland are countries that I would point to as libertarian in nature. They're very successful countries.

I really wish all Libertarians were sent to Somalia to die

>The requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or consequences

Nah I'm pretty sure it was founded on the principle of not wanting to be taxed out the ass with zero representation by an overseas power.

I'm not even him, and I keep asking the same question; what is wrong with caring about all lives?

If you don't want to carry it out to the point where you have a libertarian society (or even a mostly 70-80%), then you aren't one you just have a few libertarian beliefs.

>cap
>libertarian
Remember that time he called Cables socialist island utopia the perfect realization of the American dream and painted a mural on it.

Holy fucking hell this is why Sup Forums should never talk about politics.

Switzerland is socialist as fuck. They just used to make all their money due to having a lawless banking system that was an economic drain on every other nation in the world.

Not that guy, but how's that bait?
All lives do matter and should be treated equally.

This is a joke right?

>Switzerland is socialist as fuck
The point is that Switzerland has a very laissez faire economy and strong civil liberties/freedoms, which is what libertarians strive for. Not privately owned roads or whatever retarded bullshit ancaps come out with.

>Switerzland
>libertarian

Yeah, I don't think so buddy.

Because even people on a cartoon board can see through the sheer retardation that is Libertarianism?

I think we should talk about politics more, honestly. Seeing you bitcoin niggers crying and desperately trying to spin your sociopathic ideology as having any redeeming qualities is extremely lol