Civil War Writers confirm Bucky is guilty

>Q: Why was it necessary to put the winter soldier back on ice?
>A: Well because, I mean for one thing he is, give or take his intellectual capacity, 100% guilty. And to have Steve just running around getting free salads with him on some island, it’s a little too unpunished, in a way. This is not a guy who should be running around happily. He may not be 100% guilty, but he’s damn sure not 100% innocent.
>Q: Why does that not apply to Wanda Maximoff?
>A: Wanda…
>Q: You think she suffered enough?
>A: I don’t think she did anything near as bad […] None of those things were terribly interesting to us, the punishing of nice people, who already feel guilt. In the Bucky issue is…it was a bridge too far I think.

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That's bullshit though.

>wanda does something of her own free will
>"not as bad"
>bucky is literally under mental compulsion
>"100% guilty"

Give me source or you're baiting.

Steve pls

>tfw he wasn't brainwashed and he genuinely defected to the Russians/HYDRA, and he's just lying

>bucky isn't a nice person
>bucky doesn't feel guilt

Ok

>craveonline.com/entertainment/985969-captain-america-civil-war-writers-b-movies-podcast#/slide/1

On the 5:30 mark

>Hawkeye kills people while under mind control
>no one gives a shit

>Bucky does it
>THAT NIGGAS GUILTY

Keep in mind that before Captain fascist knew Buck didn't kill those people he still mercilessly beat up innocent cops with his murder disk and when Buck threw a guy over that railing Cap had to save him and was like "Lol c'mon bro you said no killing"

Steve is a cunt

Wanda should be in jail for helping Ultron and nobody cares because her brother died. May as well let fucking Zemo on the Avengers

This begs the question; Can the mind be held accountable for what the body has done?

American law has said No. Sleepwalkers have gotten away with plenty of crimes.

I have no sources. I'm talking out my ass.

>Can the mind be held accountable for what the body has done?
Humans are organic machines. We operate using electrical impulses in the brain. History shows that the human mind can indeed be "hacked" and manipulated in ways the owner of said mind has no control over.

With that taken into account, it's entirely reasonable to consider one's actions while in a programmed state, to be free of culpability.

The guilt and blame ascribed are moral dilemmas that have no relevance.

And Tony should be in jail too or at least tried for some of the shit he has done.

Hell he did Ultron with Bruce then wanted to drop Sokovia to stop Ultron with people STILL on it until Cap told him no.

You know what, yeah, might as well let Zemo fucking join the Avengers.

Banner should also be in jail

Yeah, did everyone just FORGET that Ultron existed and that Stark (and probably Banner) should be in fucking jail?
The continuity is a joke.

And that Wanda set a pissed off Hulk on a city in AoU?

I guess if you take into account the shit with Killgrave then you can make a case for Bucky being innocent especially since in his case he wasn't influenced but outright controlled.

Let Foggy or Hogarth handle his case, I would say Matt but that fucker is unreliable when pussy is present.

Whedon made everyone magically forgive everyone.

Honestly Bucky is only getting shat on because the plot demands it, if Civil War had never happened then this shit would have been sidestepped in Cap 3 although the Bucky guilt would have stuck.

The comic Avengers has had a bunch of super-villains on the team, even a few murderous ones.

Black Knight, Wonder Man, Moon-dragon, even Hawkeye started out as a criminal. Hulk was an army-trashing monster when he was a founding member.

Can't put the Avengers in jail in case another world ending threat like Loki shows up

I know Marvel comics are shit but the movies could do better

Mind control isn't an excuse for murdering your friends dad who happens to be village chief so that your friend can ascend the hierarchy. Especially when you show 10 minutes later that you can easily break out of said "mind control"

*cough*cough*

Hawkeye was a petty criminal though he wasn't a class A murderer or anything like that.

Wanda and Pietro were literally terrorists, I mean when the Kooky Quarter happened it made a bunch of Marvel readers rage because they were Cap with three undeserving bad guys in their eyes.

Hulk quit after the third issue and he didn't come back until Bendis did Avengers Assemble, he rechnically has more history as a Defender than he did as an Avenger, the Avengers distrusted him big time.

>We as an informed audience know Bucky was exploited and brainwashed
>We as an audience watching Civil War and privy to more information than Tony had at the moment, know that Bucky spent his life right before the movie hiding out and staying low because he KNOWS how easy it is to brainwash him and he doesn't want people to do it again and make him kill people,

>100% Guilty, no remorse, deserving of punishment

DID THEY WATCH THEIR OWN FUCKING MOVIE?
>Bucky didn't kill himself, therefore everything that happened was completely his fault.
>We can't tell the difference between flashbacks that take place well before Winter Soldier and events that happen within the immediate timeline of the actual movie.

This is worse than Scott's ex-wife being such a fucking cunt when his crime was taking criminal action on behalf of others, not for his own profit.

> I know that I have a problem where I can lose control of my body and 99% of the time it involves murder
> Yet I don't turn myself over to the authorities and instead try to blend in with society and still manage to murder people on an annual basis


You know you're a threat to society and do nothing. Sounds guilty to me. If a drunk knowingly picks up the keys knowing he is impaired

Panther absolved him you cockfag and if you think T'challa is wrong then you can go suck more cocks.

Drunks don't know they are impared you mongoloid but they make the decision to drink when they are sober knowing they might get drunk so they are held accountable.

Bucky didn’t go to Hydra and asked them to brainwash him.

Comic book governments are incredibly corrupt. If I knew that someone could say a few words and make me kill someone, I wouldn't present myself on a silver platter to the government. The government in real life hires assassins, who knows what they do in the MCU.

>blaming Wanda
Fucking stupid.
The moment Crossbones got that virus out in the open, EVERYBODY in the entire area was at risk of dying.
Collateral damage should really be weighed against the potential loss of life if EVERYTHING went wrong.

Like, those gay-ass screens with the human casualties that were only like... 30, 200, whatever. I was chuckling when I saw those in the trailer. New York is invaded by an alien fleet and only 74 people died. Only 74.

>effectively being raped into committing murders

>not 100% innocent

what

She still let the Hulk loose on a populated city. That was 100% her doing, no mind control shit and she should be held accountable for it.

Russos are retarded, they say he is 100% guilty but then say he is not 100% guilty but not 100% innocent.

Which is it?

Honestly I would like to ask Mcfeely and Markus what they thought about this since they wrote the script.

I have a pretty good idea of when I'm drunk, and ehen I'm not

She isn't because Russos waifu her and she's treated like a kid.

The only thing that could be blamed on the Avengers was Ultron. Pinning the casualies of winter soldier and the chitauri invasion on them was stupid as fuck.

>Mcfeely and Markus what they thought about this since they wrote the script.

It's the writers on the podcast, not the Russos. I am blaming the writers for this already.

Talking about another series you dip

Are you drunk right now? Your typing sucks.

Eitherway you make the decision of being drunk unless someone spikes your drink and that shit would be a special case in court in a drink and driving case, not to mention they go after the person spiking your drink.

1)Wanda should stand trial for Sokovia events.
2)Tony should stand trial for Ultron (I do not feel him guilty, the whole genesis of Ultron has been too rapid, but he should stand trial ).

3) Cap should stand trial for the events Wakanda. he intervened arbitrarily and it's his fault if Crossbone has had time to detonated the bomb, Forcing Wanda to take an impossible decision.

Be more specific you prolapselicker

Pretty sure most people know that after 10 drinks that they shouldn't pick up the keys yet they still order another round. This obviously doesn't apply to everyone but it's not a defense for bad decisions is what I was getting at.

> your honor, I just went out drinking with my buds and had 17 beers by choice but I shouldn't be found guilty for killings that car full of people because I was drunk and had no control over my decision making


Bucky knew that as long as he remained out in the open that time and time again hydra and the like would get him to kill people and he did nothing

Ask Cap to stand trial he probably would

Also Widow should stand trial and so should Hawkeye, fuck, you can make a case for Thor and all the shit that happens because of him but who would fucking order Thor.

And Banner

It's still not the same, Bucky for all he knew everyone was out to get him, yes he should be contained and helped but no one wanted to do that and unfortunately Zemo got to him before anyone else did.

He also wasn't sound of mind.

And again you chose to drink.

Fuck, who wouldn't stand trial?

So basically they don't punish Wanda because muh waifu.

Rhodey

That's eve worse then.

I guess they want to drag Bucky through the ringer before he can be redeemed.

Honestly it's going to take a lot for Bucky and Tony to be OK.

Also in the comics the hero Bucky has wronged the most is Wolverine since he killed Logan's wife but since Wolverine has been brainwashed a lot and knows how rhat shit is he forgave him.

And he gets crippled, lol

Its the writers. Not the Russos. Joe even mentioned Bucky being the pure victim here.

Bucky knew that as long as he was free that he would murder people. I don't have anymore implies to make it easier to understand why he was, is, always will be guilty for his actions. His crime was not taking the necessary steps to prevent it

I'm sure that the cops he killed during the raid on his apartment is proof enough

You choose to be drunk which you know increases your chance to hurt others. No court let's you off the hook for making a choice you KNOW can hurt people. Bucky made his choice

Did you watch the movie? Bucky got caught and STILL he got compromised becaused government agencies are shit with identity checks and he got brainwashed again.

Zemo wasn't even a HYDRA operative.

Cap forgives Bucky specifically because he's NOT guilty. Any irl soldier has respect for enemy combatants. This fucking bullshit with "100% guilty" is typical leftwing faggotry "victors (re)write history" bullshit. Show the nigga some respect, ffs.

Mind control is called that for a reason. Look up actual mind control programs and read on how that shit works. A person who is mind controlled is not responsible for their actions.

You're a faggot sjw subhuman faggot.

Well, the Russos consider him a victim.

>Joe Russo: He goes on the most horrific emotional journey of anybody in the movie. It is very empathetic. It’s very difficult to watch that scene with Bucky and Tony’s parents, but we shot it violent because we want you to be horrified. We wanted you to feel what Tony was feeling in that moment. Also, Bucky can be considered the longest suffering POW. Cap has an equally emotional reason that he is trying to protect and preserve Bucky, which is the last shred of his humanity from the past, the last shred of his sense of self and his home. The character is a pure victim. Again, all these characters do complicated things and,hopefully, in the end, the sum result is that you walk out of the theater arguing with your friends and family about who was right.

Logically he should be committing suicide then.

Exactly Steve would accept immediately. He never denied his responsibilities, but this way, probably almost all would come out forgiven, because the trials would have also highlighted the extreme danger that the Avengers had thwarted. Maybe Tony and Wanda would have to suffer a bit 'of crap, but nothing great.

Tony would would end under control, however, leaving Steve free to act

Governments, first, had no interest in doing a trials. They know that the Avengers have avoided the apocalypse more than once

He knew he had a problem that hurt people and he did nothing to mitigate it.

That's his crime user. Tell me how it isnt

Bullshit. He was living peacefully on his own until fuckers came after him allowing him to be brain washed again.

They sealed him up so they don't have to pay him until Avengers 3 when Dr. Strange can cure his mental demons. And also heal Rhodes.

Because he didn't know he could still be brainwashed. And if he's being brainwashed again that's still not his crime its someone elses. Guns don't kill people etc.

But he knew it would happen. Just like when you pick up a drink that you're gonna lose some motor skills. It's the choices he makes. It wasn't a 1 time thing

He literally said in the movie he knew the words would always work on him

How the fuck would he have known it would happen?

Well they put him back on ice because he was a liability, not because he was guilty. He's just another Hulk waiting to happen except instead of rampaging randomly, the enemy can use him with precision if they ever got him under control.

No he didn't. He said literally the opposite. That also doesn't change the fact that he can't be held responsible for other people's actions.

What was Bucky supposed to do? Hydra is everywhere and he's just supposed to surrender himself? To whom? Because the movie clearly pointed out that it was a bad idea.

The other conclusion would be to kill himself. And Tony would totally be in the right to kill him too.

Even with mind control he would still be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter

Nah cause that still requires them of being guilty of reckless or criminal behavior.

Bucky didn’t chose to get brainwashed, are you daft?

>And Tony would totally be in the right to kill him too.
Tony disagrees. The whole point is that Tony know it was wrong to want to kill him but wanted to do it anyway, much like Zemo knowing full well he was killing innocent people in his plan and murdering other people's families. Both Zemo and Tony couldn't help themselves but want to do the wrong thing.

I think that, given sufficient time to cool down and process, he would have eventually come to accept that he shouldn't kill Bucky. I don't know if he'd ever come to LIKE Bucky, or even tolerate the guy's immediate presence, but he'd at least probably settle for Bucky never coming within ten kilometers of his location.

I think what Tony really wants is to beat the ever loving shit out of Bucky, be in a position to kill him, and THEN choose the moral high ground and spare him.

Bucky did choose to do nothing about it. Are you daft?

Involuntary manslaughter is punishing negligence which leads to death.

Murdering people is pretty criminal behavior. You wouldn't make that great of a defense attorney for Bucky

They also said that Howard deserved to die like he did.

Sounds like bad wording in a live interview. They probably mean he feels guilty and knows he's a danger and so he shouldn't be going around happily after the movie or he'll look like a remorseless shithead. At least icing himself makes him look responsible.

What negligence? He lived alone doing nothing unsure if the brainwashing still worked. How is he at fault for being taken prisoner and brainwashed?
You're an idiot. Murdering people without free will to do otherwise isn't criminal. Bucky was a prisoner.

> and it's his fault if Crossbone has had time to detonated the bomb

You fucking what

In all fairness though, this is pretty comic accurate.

>Russos consider him a victim
>the writers consider that he's guilty
So, which one is it?

The writers are talking from the character and narrative perspective and why the ending had to be what it was. They're talking about what things need to happen in the story to make the point they want to convey to the audience. Bucky views himself as guilty because he remembers all his kills and can do nothing to stop it. He punished himself by going back on ice. The audience would have hated him if he didn't act out of remorse, it's the only thing that could make him sympathetic. Bucky hating himself makes the audience sympathize with him more.

He can't prove he lacked free will but I sure as fuck can prove he put himself in that situation. If he had handed himself over to the authorities then it would be their fault someone got to him but he didn't. He did nothing and he knew doing nothing would get people killed yet it did it time and time again. He is guilty of negligence.

He has to prove
1. He was mind controlled at the time of the crimes
2. Who mind controlled him
3. At what point did he regain control of his mind and choose to do nothing to prevent further mind control

No fucking criminal uses mind control as a legal excuse and gets away with it. Even those dumb Bitches with Manson got jail time.

You're retarded for not seeing the basic truth

They have proof dumbass. All of Hydra's files are free on the fucking internet.

>Banner should also be in jail
Who's gonna make him?

This wasn't his first mind control rodeo. He has a long history of these fits of "mind control"

Living alone in the middle of the city and going outside regularly to buy plumbs isn't in any way considered seclusion.

>He can't prove he lacked free will
All of SHIELD's files were released. Everyone knows.
>If he had handed himself over to the authorities then it would be their fault someone got to him but he didn't.
That makes no fucking sense. Regardless of how he got in custody they still let someone get to him.
>He did nothing and he knew doing nothing would get people killed yet it did it time and time again.
He didn't know. Stop saying he did.

Why should he live in seclusion exactly. There were no problems til cops busted down his door. He and everyone else was perfectly safe until then.

I love the Children's Crusade

my favorite retcon and it took some of the guilt off Wanda

>If he had handed himself over to the authorities then it would be their fault someone got to him but he didn't
Except he did surrender and get taken in by authorities.
And then Zemo got to him because the government is incompetent, thus proving why he was avoiding authorities in the first place. Because in his experience, everything is Hydra and turning himself in means just handing himself back over to the people that made him kill in the first place. And look at that, he was right.

Haven't seen the movie yet, but I read a spoiler that Bucky willingly goes to prison, because he knows how dangerous he is, even when acting against his will, and feels remorse for his actions. is that not what happens in the movie?
It seems like the perfect way out of this for the Russos, who obviously don't want to let Bucky completely off the hook even though, as this thread has amply established, their judgement of Bucky's guilt is pretty arbitrary.

He voluntarily lets himself be frozen again until the based Wakandans can figure out how to deprogram him.

...

Good. Sounds like the Russos went in that direction for questionable reasons, but that seemed like a pretty agreeable compromise.

The people in the podcast are Markus and McFeely, the writers who work with the Russos.

How many people would have died if Wanda had done nothing and Crossbones had blown himself up on the ground in the middle of a crowded market?

That was this one time and therefore it was uncle Sams fault they let someone get to him. Does not justify not turning himself in sooner. Now for the other hundreds of corpses in his closet

Bucky and Cap could have made a clean getaway in Germany without endangering the police or civilians if Bucky hadn't stood around silently gazing at Cap while they closed in on his position.

> blew up 2 helicarries
> No problems

Uhhhh, you letting him off the hook for that too?