Noob here

Noob here.

Is Cap able to lift the hammer? Seemed like he was holding himself back for Thor's sake after he realized he might actually do it.

In movies or comics?

Captain America is often shown as worthy of wielding Thor's hammer.

The movie reference seems like he was perhaps worthy but the circumstances weren't right so it did not allow itself to be lifted.

Movie. AoU, that scene.

Gotcha, thanks.

I had the feeling he could totally do it (he kinda moves it a little, causing that worried expression on Thor), but chose not to in front of the team.

>Thought this scene served to establish an epic moment later on where someone menages to lift the Mjolnir in a moment of desperation in the final fight/in Avengers 3
>Just a cheap gag to show Vision is OP
Sasuga, Whedon.

It was more to show the rest of the Avengers why they should trust really Vision.

I had a different impression from that scene. I thought Mjolnir felt he was only sort of worthy

can you imagine if Tony for a brief second was worthy of lifting the hammer during the final fight?

i would have laughed my ass off


i would have actually been mad as fuck until they show him not being able to lift it up again after the fight

What're you even talking about? That's not true at all. It was just a scene of them goofing off, why would he even want to hold back?

Mostly for Thor's sake. He gets kinda upset when Cap manages to move it a bit, then relieved when eventually he doesn't lift it.

It's just an impression, but watch the scene with this in mind and it makes sense.

>>Just a cheap gag to show Vision is OP
The Civil War writers is nerfing Vision. They wrote CW assuming that Vision had already lost his worthiness due to, well, LIVING and is no longer a newborn.

What makes a person Worthy? It doesn't make any sense to me that Vision could lift the hammer just because he was newborn and pure and hadn't had time time be an asshole.

that's dumb, if he loses worthiness you should show it.

>Seemed like he was holding himself back for Thor's sake after he realized he might actually do it.
I came here to laugh at you.

What does worthy even mean in the context of mjolnir? Thor's sort of a jerk, and he can use it fine.

Could Tony's suit lift the hammer in sentry mode?

When Vision was first made he was basically just a machine and as such could move the hammer.

Consider this.
Thor puts his hammer down inside the helicarrier.
The hammer doesn't stay in place in midair, either tearing holes in the ship or causing the ship to stay still
The helicarrier isn't "trying" to lift the hammer, it's just there and as such can move it.

However trying to pull the hammer with a truck didn't work because the driver was using the truck as a tool to move the hammer.

"newborn" Vision could move the hammer because he had no true will at the time to exert on the hammer in the first place, being a machine that just happened to be moving it. That or he actually was just worthy.

Also this means in theory if you tried to tow the hammer with the carrier deliberately it would fail.

Guy who does the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing i guess? It's magic/super alien science man only Odin knows.

Wasn't this sort of explained in the movie with the whole elevator explanation at the end?

If he needed to, he probably could.

He couldn't quite lift it at the party because he was just lifting it to show off.

That, but "the right thing" according to Asgardian morals so you'd have to be a proper warrior.

Moive Cap I got the impression that he WAS worthy, but he himself thought he wasn't. So he couldn't lift it. When he needs to lift it, say against Thanos, he'll be too focused on the job at hand to let self-doubt get in the way.

if jarvis could so can friday maybe

He lost the worthiness after dicking around in Jotunheim in the first movie though. Killing frost giants and shit.

>That or he actually was just worthy.

He was. Odin set Mjolnir toward a moral highground, which only a like-minded person could wield. He straight up said he didn't want to kill Ultron, but doing so is necessary since Ultron wont be swayed.

But after CW, he may not be worthy since he now possesses fear and doubt.

He is so going to do it in Infinity War 2 isn't he?

>Fallen Thor on the ground, Thanos walking towards them. Cap can only reach the hammer. Cap picks it up and backhands Thanos across his ugly face with it.

No, the elevator scene was a gag about hpw Tony and Steve are trying to justify to themselves how Vision can lift it and they can't. They have to try to rationalise it otherwise they're forced to accept the truth in front of them, that Vision is a worthier being than them, at that moment.

I thought this was really obvious but now this thread makes me wonder if people really can't catch on to things like that. Vision is sentient. He has the Mind Gem. If he can lift it because "muh machine" then shouldn't any other non-organic sentient being also be able to do so? A crystal or a metal man?

What of a clone with flash programming? What of Winter Soldier Bucky? These things are organic machines, should they be able to lift the hammer too?

It's literally just Steve and Tony trying to make themselves feel better.

I get that it was a gag but i thought the MCU also followed the robot loophole for Mjolnir like how Awesome Andy managed to lift Thor's hammer. And we didn't see any other robot trying to lift Mjolnir. Ultron was all about delivering the smackdown on Thor. On top of that, we didn't see Vision using Mjolnir's powers like lightning and etc. It just becomes more and more weird in hindsight.

>dicking around
Exactly.

Also the whole 'worthiness thing' wasn't on there at that point.

What is Cap's worthiness to lift the hammer now after Civil War?

Oh shit yeah. Odin put the enchantment on Mjolnir after the Jotunheim fiasco. Fucking hell i'm a moron.

Eh it just leaves a very arbitrary line i think. I mean, are we going to try to say Vision isn't a sentient and sapient being? Because that seems ridiculous to me.

I wish Vision showed 'some' Thor powers because the inscription on the hammer is "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor." To show he was truly "worthy" i mean. But obviously showing the synthezoid powered by an Infinity Gem using Thor's powerset is pretty much overkill.

Cap wasn't trying to lift Mjolnir because he needed it but because of/fun/pride. He'll no doubt be able to pick it up when needed.

The way I see it, Cap WOULD be worthy, but as Ultron pointed out, he's too addicted to war itself to be truly worthy of the hammer, no matter how righteous he is. Odin did say that a good king never craves war, but is always ready for it, which might be one of the conditions for Mjolnir, since he wanted his son to take the throne when he was done saving the realms. When Stark mentioned that he was trying to end the conflict with Ultron, Steve got visibly angry, and I don't think it was because of the reasons he stated to Stark; with his employment at SHIELD and the resulting war against Hydra, Steve had found his place in the world, and he didn't like the idea of losing it.

Then there's the bit about Steve hiding the truth about Stark's parent's deaths from him. That probably didn't help his case.

When all hope seems lost Cap will light their darkest hour by picking it up and using it to smash the infinity gauntlet.

>but as Ultron pointed out, he's too addicted to war itself to be truly worthy of the hammer, no matter how righteous he is.
Come to think of it, he did point it out numerous times.

"How could you be worthy? You're all killers."
"You wanna protect the world, but you want it to change."
"God's righteous man, pretending you can live without a war."

>that's dumb, if he loses worthiness you should show it.
They did. They show Vision displaying self doubt and uncertainty.

And Thor isn't? Thor shows likes fighting WAY more than Cap does.

What if someone who was evil but doing it to save people got a hold of Mjolnir?

>What if someone who was evil but doing it to save people
That's like saying "what if someone is genuinely saintly but also ass rapes newborn babies".

What the fuck do you mean by "someone who was evil"? That doesn't even make sense. Your sentence was an oxymoron. What you mean is someone who does bad things for what he believes is for the greater good, and in that case you have no business calling him evil.

Well you know, if he was doing evil deeds for absolutely good reasons.


Say you had a terrorist who stole plans for a new type of nuclear device driving a bus full of sick orphans into a tunnel that you can't follow and you had a clear shot with a rocket launcher. Would you shot that bus to potentially save billions or would you let him go?

See, bad actions for a good reason.

What bad actions?

MCU Cap probably can lift it, if the circumstances where right. Like a critical moment during Infinity War

I remember when the fear was Cuck Whedon was going to let Black Widow lift it, because m'lady

Shooting a bus full of sick orphans with a rocket launcher.