Is it just me or does it feel like the iron man suit is getting progressively weaker?
Iron man 1
>Gets hit by a tank shell
>Paint is scratched but otherwise fine
>Gets hit by a jet fighter at 800mph
>Perfectly fine
Civil war
>He gets double teamed by cap and bucky
>Armor rapidly begins to break
I mean I know Steve is strong but come on. You're telling me his punch does more damage than a 20,000 lb jet fighter.
>Not knowing the power of FREEDOM
Pfft, bet you can't even do this all day.
>using a VIBRANIUM shield against a metal suit
>using a metal arm, made of of who knows what and obviously stronk, against a metal suit
of course it's gonna break
If I remember right, the Jet's wing clipped him...
There is the fact he was inside the Helicarrier's rotor for a minute or so.
... The one he wore to fight the chitauri took a lot of punishment too.
I don't know what Bucky's arm was made out of, but getting hit by Cap's shield probably does a number on anything.
user, you know how comics work, right? Everyone jobs. there's no consistent "power levels." Hell, Batman beat the goddamn Hulk by using knock out gas and a kick to the stomach.
Didn't he get roughed up during the airport fight? At least they had Friday specifically state the suit had taken damage in multiple areas. You could say he changed suits after leaving the prison, but things would make more sense if it were the same.
His armor was already broken by the time this fight happened. it made sense in how it was presented that he didn't even have the majority of his weapons by this time. He was going easy at the airport and it cost him his suit as everyone kept chipping away at it then when he got here and actually wanted to kill Bucky he could no longer do it. As for the tank shell that's just surviving the explosion and getting hit really hard. Captain America's shield hits ever harder than that, so it still makes enough sense.
My problem isn't with the fact that vibranium beats whatever starks suit is made out of on the hardness scale. My problem is with the fact that captain can even hit hard enough to damage stark's suit in the first place. This is a more advanced version of a suit that previously took punches from Thor; the guy who's almost as strong as the hulk.
Yeah, considering Bucky knocked a car off the road by just lightly tapping it on the side kinda implies it packs some punch.
He had a new repaired suit he used to get to the Siberian military complex. He put it on in the helicopter.
Well, you can't say for certain it was a new suit, or if he just left the one he had in the chopper while going for the visit. That's why I'm saying it'd make more sense if it were the old suit, rather than a brand new.
The problem isn't that captains shield is stronger than anything else. The problem is that captain needs to have enough force himself to hit harder than a tank shell. It's like saying that if I tapped a diamond against steel than the steel is going to shatter. It doesn't work that way, you'd need to be have a force strong enough to shatter the steel in the first place.
the power levels in these Marvel movies vary from movie to movie. even within the same movie the powers and armor and shit aren't always consistent. they go with what the story demands.
stop being so fucking autistic about it
That's fair I suppose.
>Stop being so autistic
Do you know what website you are even on? That's like saying don't be a nigger in KFC.
Of course it depends a lot on the hardness of the tool too. If you're hitting a piece of steel with a diamond, you don't need a whole lot of force to make a dent in it. On the other hand, if you're hitting it with a wood hammer, you can whack it for a day with all your might and nothing's going to happen. Except the hammer breaking.
The fight was actually really good. It showed how much of a liability Stark's ego was.
Instead of using his speed or firepower or range he gets into a fistfight. If Tony wasn't such a jackass and listen to his own AI and flew a couple hundred yards up and start blasting everything with unibeam volleys it would of been a really short fight.
Except the fight happened in a bunker with not a lot of room to fly around or blow up stuff...
Its like Capt's shield isnt made of the most indestructable naturally occuring substance in the Marvel universe. Also Bucky and Capt's blow were just knowing Tony down the armor was unscathed by their hits until Capt started spamming his shield.
He couldn't use speed or firepower because Cap just busted his flight capabilities.
possibly but you have t consider that most of his enemies are also getting stronger
extremis soldiers had fire powers and super strength so they get a pass
now that cap on the other side, feels like he keeps getting power boosted on every movie
in AoU he destroyed ultron drones with his hands
and yeah, the shield is totally op bullshit
Stark stopped bucky from reaching the surface, where he'd have a huge advantage against the both of them.
why did stabbing the shield through the central arc reactor mean game over
i thought the prior films had established the suit as consisting of self powering individual pieces
this desu sempai senpai.
freedom is a powerful force not to be reckoned with!
that shot of cap holding back the helicopter was fucking great.
Dude. This cap is strong enough to kick cars, launch bikes and hold a helicopter with just his arms.
He is super human
And thor actually broke the armor of tony in avengers
Everyone in AoU was destroying Ultron drones with their hands; a common complaint about the movie is how weak Ultron seemed to be.
Vibranium indestructability is due to a molecular quirk that makes it store kinetic energy but dont pass it on meaning you can hit all day but its not gonna break at all because kinetic energy breaking the bonds of molecules is how solid objects break in the first place so its literally indestructable impact wise and may also have an absurdly high melting point meaning heat cant do shit to it either thus the shield is indestructable by mechanical methods but magic I aint gotta explain or Power Cosmic blows it to pieces.
The first suit was built like a tank, but he needed a machine and like 5 minutes to put it on and take it off.
He sacrificed some resistance to make it more versatile.
only the break apart suit had that.
Number one, both Cap's shield and Bucky's arm are made of vibranium. Iron Man's suit is not. Number two, he's been moving away from bulky suits and more towards utility/mobility since the second movie. The Mark XLVI suit from Civil War is made up of multiple, segmented parts which, from a physics standpoint, will provide less protection than simple, thick plating. It also makes him a bit less powerful in a fight because most of the mechanics inside the suit are devoted to holding the plating in place, rather than enhancing his strength like a powered endoskeleton with thick plating would. However, it DOES allow him to move around a lot more, and it lets him store all sorts of neat toys inside, so that's the trade off.
>like saying "don't be a nigger" in a KFC
Speaking from personal experience?
why would that not become the norm tho
Bucky's arm can't be vibranium though, as IM's chestbeam blew it into pieces.
well the suit didnt totally shut down
but if you that out the central battery and leave only the weaker ones its just not the same
and like user explained, the new suits are made of tiny pieces and not big plates like the first ones
agree it was
ok, better example he took down a quinjet youtube.com
and survived 3 high height falls with close to no protection
and yeah, he held down a helicopter and also took it down
isn't it implied that the arm is made of vibranium as well?
expensive and time consuming to put reactors in every part of every suit?
Central arc reactor powers the suit's central processing unit. Although the other limbs can move on their own (they actually DO have R.T. reactors installed), he can't use any of their offensive capabilities, and the central portion of the suit essentially became dead weight. He also lost all of his HUD capabilities when the helmet was destroyed, but that's a secondary concern.
I thought that as well when the arm resonated with black panther's ring. Wasn't sure though.
Also, if I remember right, it was damaged in Winter Soldier during the first fight with Cap and had a technician fixing it in the mindwipe scene. It's just some less fabulous metal.
It was even the same suit?
I mean, maybe the one in the helicopter is a diferent one that the one he used earlier
Yeah he held his own against Thor for a few minutes in Avengers 1. He's kind of as strong as the plot needs him to be.
I think you could argue this is more of a case of Steve slowly getting a power boost over his sequels too, though. Guy overpowered Spider-Man
The impression the movies give is that all Tony does is work on ways to make his suit more convenient to put on and take off without ever upping its firepower or durability.
It's the model of suit, but it's a different suit; i.e., undamaged.
Now you're getting to the core of the man.
Unfortunately.
Spidey was dicking around user if he was serious Bucky and Steve's head would of been off.
Maybe he sacrificed armor for mobility?
Thats a common practice when people design tanks and planes
this is how i saw it. he gives up durability and firepower with the more convenient suits, if he wanted to fight a tank he wouldn't put the suitcase armor on, he would use a different more heavy model
He overpowered Spider-man because he out-thought him. In CW, Pete's a child with only six months of experience using those powers, let alone using them in combat. Steve immediately recognized that he was out-classed from both a strength and speed standpoint, so he used the shield and Petey's own inexperience/cockiness against him.
Everyone in the movie was holding back. The only fight where people truly go for each other is the showdown in Siberia, and even then, Cap's holding back because he doesn't want to kill Tony, he just wants to protect Bucky.
I think it depends on the suit he's using because lately Tony's been using suits that focus on portability. In the moments that we saw him walk away from tank shells and planes was when he wore suits that required storage containers and base stations.
Spider-Man's like, what 16 in this film? 15? He's hardly at his lifts-60-tons prime.
I don't think the suit is getting weaker, just that Cap and Bucky knew to keep Tony off balance in close range combat so they could whittle him down and target his weak points. Any time Tony got his barrings he could easily know either one of them across the room.
Yeah, because if the suit was completely out of power stark would be immobilized. It's so heavy he couldn't move an unpowered suit. It makes sense it that with the unibeam and helmet and gloves and boots gone he'd just have enough left to move.
I was just surprised that destroying a fragile and incredibly powerful powersource didn't cause an explosion, or none of the characters thought it might
Well, it wasn't all that fragile, it just got hit by the hard edge of the world's strongest metal. And I think Tony's been through enough climactic finally battles to design a power source that won't explode when it gets damaged. That being said, I'm not actually sure it was completely fucked; it looked more like Steve destroyed the casing/holster for the reactor than the reactor itself, which would be enough to knock it out of alignment and shut down the suit.
This
Well, by fragile I meant complex and advanced. Like a lot could go wrong
>I was just surprised that destroying a fragile and incredibly powerful powersource didn't cause an explosion, or none of the characters thought it might
Probably because Stark's not stupid and definitely not suicidal. Would make sense for him to have installed some kind of failsafe shutdown systems to keep it from going out of control and blowing him up, if it received damage.
Fair point.
He isn't getting weaker, Cap is just getting stronger
Even movie Iron Man is doomed to job.
Okay so, the way I see it, the problem is just really the shield.
Every damage Steve was able to inflict was caused by a shield blow to some less protected part, like thrusters, the arc, joints, etc.
Steve is fucking strong, and the shield basically tranfers all of that to the weak parts, and Tony only lost (he didn't) because he was being juggled around like a Rag Doll untill he remembered he could analyse Steve's fight paterns, and because .Steve was slowly damaging his armor bit by bit.
Also, he wanted to beat the hell out of Bucky, but I don't think he really wanted to kill him, or Steve. Cause them, let's be honest, he just really needed to fly and blow the dudes out of existance or cut them with that red laser thing.
He wanted to fist fight, that's why he lost.
This is the most reasonable answer.
>a common complaint about the movie is how weak Ultron seemed to be.
so glad Whedon is gone
But he had Hulkbuster which even thou a arm got ripped he still managed to beat up Hulk
Honestly his armor would be better if it had layers
Experience wouldn't let him be able to yank Spidey like a rag doll. Once he got webbed up it should have been game over.
Yeah, his suits are basically paper now. I guess they just do it to justify him switching suits constantly in the movies to make more toys, which makes sense but it's annoying to see his suits get smashed to shit by everything now.
Just saw Cap: SW moments ago and I humbly submit that the Russos made a perfect film. I could waste a few paragraphs describing all the things they did right in light of all the things that had gone wrong in previous movies, and still managed to build upon it, but I'd be preaching to the choir.
Falcon was my favorite part of their storytelling. Sam Wilson is just a military pilot with nothing special going on with him, and they just added shit that made sense and showcased his training, quick thinking, and hard work to where he is now. Using his wings as bullet proof shields... fucking genius.
The shell fired at Iron Man was not an anti-armor/tank round, you can tell because of the cute little puff of black smoke it gave off. What's more likely is that those terrorists were using some anti-personnel rounds, those explode to spread a fragmented inner shell at soft targets. I'm no /k/omrade, but Stark would be liquefied if he was actually hit with an anti-tank shell.
Thor crushed Iron Man's arm plating just by gripping it with his fingers, no punches or hammer required.
Starks suits follow the Inverse Ninja Principle.
If you are fighting 20 ninjas, they'll all be weak cannon fodder.
Fight against just one ninja, and he'll be an absolute badass.
Tony can make dozens of suits now, so each one is weak compared to when he had to have just a single suit take all the abuse. It had no margin to be damageable.
fpbp
caps shield isnt just steel and buckys arm isnt just steel
the iron man suit isnt special. the justification from a comic book stand point is the suit is softer
realistically since a person has to be inside it and its not solid metal the suit must be weak since its not even made of titanium.
its also got stuff in it allowing flight and powered movement. your talking sheet metal it shouldnt be able to deflect bullets
the suit he escaped the cave in should be more heavy duty than what he has now
>its not even made of titanium
its largely a gold/titanium alloy in the MCU
how did iron man get to cap and bucky right after they got to the bunker when iron man had to go to the prison first AFTER the avengers were imprisoned while cap and bucky went straight to the bunker from the airport. that shit was bullshit.
Density and structural integrity. A steel bar can shatter an Iron bar like glass.
Metal doesn't change its properties when shaped differently and unless Tony invented a new alloy it's still going to be vulnerable to vibranium.
>I mean I know Steve is strong but come on
In this film he kept a helicopter with a 6,000lb cargo limit from taking off. MCU Cap has a three ton curl.
that suit must have been built for insane speed and not to take a beating.
more importantly, why doesn't the greatest Engineer in MCU build redundant power sources into his tech that regularly goes into hostile combat situations
this obvious oversight literally crippled Rhodey
why did it get disintegrated by the unibeam so easily then? also cap managed to break it fairly easily in TWS
my guess has always been titanium, especially since it's soviet-made
I think it's pretty hard to actually damage the arc reactors, Rhodey was taken out by a beam from the mind gem, and Stark was's was destroyed by a giant slab of vibranium with a super soldier driving it in hard.
I just assumed that the armor he was using was for emergency purposes given that it was stored in his helicopter as opposed to the base.
Sort of like his suitcase armor from IM2.
Made the whole disadvantage make sense.
Vibranium wouldn't enhance the hitting strength of Cap. It's durable, that's why it's in the shield.
As far as Stark is concerned, he's just being hit by chunk of metal.
Also the metal armor was blasted apart by a single chest blast. It's probably regular comic book grade metal as opposed to vibranium.
that emote is triggering me
yea iron man fuckin jobbed this movie
what a load of horseshit
yea im mad
I see someone else reads quality webcomics.
It's also the same suit he was using during the airport fight which he hadn't had time to repair, which if you'll remember has a parking garage dropped on it.
People shit on Gundam for starting the kid gets access to prototype technology trope, but ignore the fact it had massive amounts of suffering and even featured ptsd.
Gundam didn't even start that.
It was common even then, and MSG was trying to show the serious consequences of putting a teenager in charge of killing all your enemies.
>Iron Man jobbed in Civil War
Go ahead, make your argument.
>Vibranium indestructability is due to a molecular quirk that makes it store kinetic energy but dont pass it on meaning you can hit all day but its not gonna break at all
That Thanos fight is going to be nuts. Cap wielding Mjolnir, walking up to Thanos, his shield breaking, and finally hearing "Avengers Assemble" with that huge as fuck group shot. I'm excited
I really love these headcanon ideas, like "cap dies in civil war". Always a good chuckle when the movie comes out and they're nothing at all like people fantasized.
>he remembered he could analyse Steve's fight patterns
Did anyone else really like that shot where Cap was just wailing on Tony and you could see it through the IM helmet?
I'm going to shit a brick if IW 1&2 get subtitles to the subtitle and we get Avengers Infinity War Avengers Assemble
>headcanon ideas
but user, Cap died in Civil War the comic, the event, the clusterfuck.
>I just assumed that the armor he was using was for emergency purposes given that it was stored in his helicopter as opposed to the base.
It's the exact same suit he used in the airport fight. The Mark 46. This isn't an Ironman or Avengers movie so he only got one new suit here.
i guess the unibeam might just have disintegrated the flesh or whatever's connecting it to bucky's muscle and bone
talking about how the arm actually connects to his body opens up a whole other can of worms physics-wise, though, so it's probably better not to dwell on that
Where do you think they got their silly movie fantasies from?
Flash has Speedforce,
Cap has FREEDOM FORCE
It's the reason why he lives, as long as freedom exists so shall he, and the freer the people the more powerful he frees
its not a headcanon if it actually happened user. it was speculation about what events might unfold.
it's called inconsistent writing