What's Sup Forums's opinion on Gargoyles?

What's Sup Forums's opinion on Gargoyles?

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It was great. First season sets up good shit and has a strong start. Second season cashes in on a lot of that and outside of the infamous Avalon world tour that Disney forced on Greg, was a well rounded fun ride.

I'm rewatching it AWS, and though the comic book-style focus on continuity is as impressive as I remembered, I think it lacks a bit of focus and sophistication in terms of execution (not only technical)

It's odd because I'd always kind of grouped this one together with Batman TAS back then because of the tone, but I think now they're very nearly opposites, as Batman had almost no continuity, but usually very focused and polished storytelling

Surprisingly, Jonathon Frakes voices an excellent villain. Marina Sirtis not so much.

Wasn't Worf also in this?

>Avalon World Tour
That shit was like, 20 episodes of completely unnecessary one-offs.

at least gave us this glorious motherfucker

Yeah, I remember Dorn voiced a Minotaur in one episode. Brent Spiner of course was Owen/Puck and he and Sirtis did a bunch of bit parts too.

Why did he want the Gargoyles anyway?

Dorn also voiced Coldstone

Best animated show of the 90's.

There's a reason that Xanatos gambit is a trope, user.

The Avalon World tour was a bit unnecessary long, but not too bad considering they were forced to make it.
show has toptier husbandos and waifus, toptier characters, toptier story. also all the hinting of Goliath/Elisa was slowly killing me.
>That halloween episode
>that costume

>You think this thread is a coincidence?
>I went back in time
>I introduced Moot's parents, so they would conceive him
>I hacked his computer, directing him to futaba channel, inspiring him
>I stealthily partially paid the server fees, to keep Sup Forums alive
>I made OP remember through subtle manipulation
>All so this thread could happen
>I am a self made man

It seemed alright but I never really got into it as a kid.

>Reminder that the only person to ever outsmart Xanatos was a clone made and trained BY Xanatos.

First he wanted them to work for him, imagine having brute monsters on your side, in stride for power. They saw through his bullshit and since they went against him he became their enemy.

I'm probably remembering it wrong, but didn't Demona suggested reviving them? I'm not sure if she wanted at first to just get them back and reform the clan, or was a super hateful jaded bitch from the get go

>no patrick stewart as macbeth

Weisman's been wanting to cast Stewart as something for so long.

Fun fact: For the YJ comics, when he wrote Brainiac, he pictured Stewart as his voice actor.

I really like it. I recommend season 1 and 2, just ignore 3. It doesn't add anything.
Season 2 has quite a few episodes that feel like filler so have a little oversight while watching.

Greg Weisman were really ahead of his time. Having a gay character in the main crew (at least according to Weisman) and a BLACK WOMAN as a main character. People would go apeshit today and call it leftist progressive garbage.
Call it shitposting but i have a sneaking suspicion that Griff is probably not completely straight either.

Great show, but glad it ended where it did. I wince whenever someone posts Weisman's plans for the gargs fighting an alien invasion 100 years in the future and King Arthur ruling Antarctica.

Needed more Macbeth and less "Avalon sent us here to start another filler episode without most of the main characters #17".

Great childhood

I thought it was for some immortality thing

Elisa was native american you dumb twat.

i rewatched the entire series recently, and honestly that part was never explained properly.
First he wanted to do it because "I want to see if it is true, i'm rich so fuck you"
Then he wanted to have them as his bodyguards for his new castle
Then he wanted them for Demona for some unknown reasons. Which is really odd, because when they first appeared, he was shocked, as if it had been the first time he has seen living gargoyles.
Then he wanted them only to steal some discs that contain information on a new weapon system of robots, which at that point they became useless to them other than for genetic experimentation.

Basically when the writers first started to create the story, they were high as fuck and just explained it with "Lol it's xanatos, i ain't gonna explain shit"

the were less filler and more tying up loose ends.
They created so many plotlines or had several plotlines in mind, but it would have taken them several more seasons to cover them properly, so instead they just did it in one go

he wanted them as stooges, then he used hudson for that alchemy experiment one time, and he ended his schemimg with them when they saved his son

Biracial, her mother's black.

I didn't find many of the antagonists outside Xanatos that compelling (eg Thailog, Coldstone, The Pack, etc), though if the definition of villain was expanded to Macbeth, it makes up for it. David Warner voicing that wizard guy was also welcome.

they had John Rhys Davies as MacBeth, which is both a better choice for the role and also baller as fuck.
but yeah, Patrick Stewart was basically the only Star Trek regular who never had a role. Sisko, Janeway, Geordi, Miles Obrien, all show up, on top of everyone already namedropped

she was both, her mother was african, her father native american

>Having a gay character in the main crew (at least according to Weisman)
i didn't understand why people thought so after hearing this, nor did i understand where it came from after rewatching it. He never showed any gay moments, not even any stereotypical ones, heck, he was interested in a woman like 3 times over the course of the show.

one drop rule is the dumbest crap. I'll give you biracial but she doesn't have the features of a black woman.

I know you're not saying Sevarius was uncompelling, because TIM FUCKING CURRY.

she doesn't have the features of an American Indian, either. She has the features of a build-for-sex.

Lexington? Yeah, besides his timid manners and being protective nothing about him really struct me as gay. Weisman still insist on it though.

I want Demona and Gargoyle Elisa to fight.

Yeah he basically changed most of his time after having his kid and when they saved him

It introduced the word 'Xanatos Gambit' into nerd culture and so I'll never forgive it.

Xanatos saying he did it just to do it was a lie given to the Gargoyles, the real reason he did it was to get the Gargoyles to be his minions as a result of seeing what Demona was capable of. However, Xanatos being Xanatos he also planned to use them to get the intelligence he needed to create his Steel Clan. Provided the gargoyles did not end up seeing through his show and stayed loyal he has both the gargoyles and his robots, and if not he has his robots.

As to his surprise, this was his first time seeing gargoyles wake up, even Elisa says that it's a sight to see despite her seeing it so many times. Also, Xanatos likely questioned whether Demona was 100% reliable in this, but he's rich and willing to do it considering the potential gain.

Great show. Had to skip a chunk of season 2 since it got boring in some parts.
Season 3 was wonky but I love seeing the Gargoyles interact with more humans. Also glad we got some semblance of a series finale (and a happy one at that).

What's this about the Avalon World tour being forced by Disney?

Not to mention the Gargoyles had been there for a thousand years, and the fact that they woke up essentially meant he realized "holy shit magic is real."

That showrunners should never trust and work for Disney.

Half native American and half black. Did you people watch the show?

So she's half african-american, half native north-american and has a 100% latino name. Plus, she's a gargoyle some times.

Fun fact I learnt literally yesterday: Both Maza and Xanatos were supposed to have the same skin color according to the model sheets shown in press kits. Xanatos did look billionaire-swarthy in the show, but I'm pretty sure they didn't have the same skin tone, and sure as hell neither of them looked so freaking white.

Second -unapologetically 2016ish- theory: since this *was* a press kit for promotion, they lightened them up to play it safe (#outragedgasp)

17 not counting the one episodes they show the city in Goliaths absence.

Disney wanted to make a whole universe out of this, ironically because they were jealous of marvel according to Greg. They wanted him to make a long series of potential other stories they might be able to make a show out of to have gargoyles branch out into a series of mythological based super heroes and stories. The death of that idea should have been season 3, but one last ditch effort was made when they tried to make a Gargoyles/Atlantis crossover. The project never got finished and remains just 3 storyboarded episodes.

A lot of Native Americans have latino surnames, and I believe her native american father is from the south west region where you'd find a lot of indians with spanish names. Hell, you can find reds and blacks with Euro names.

Dude shut the fuck up and watch the Avalon episodes with Coyote and Anansi the Spider.

I wasn't denying she's omni-ethnic; I do remember the episodes with her parents I think. The Avalon folk stuff ones don't ring a bell though; those any good?

>Gargoyles/Atlantis crossover.

gargwiki.net/The_Last_(Team_Atlantis)
I got most of this info from Gregs panels at CONvergence so take what you will from them, but I'm not entirely crazy, The Last does exist and I saw it.

Oh, I thought it was so they can lengthen the season and make more standalone episode for syndication purproses or whatever. Good to know its intent was for worldbuilding purposes even from an network executive standpoint

...

>heck, he was interested in a woman like 3 times over the course of the show.

When? He was only competing for Angela just to be competitive with his bros and was the first one to give up on her. He was also a Fox fan, that doesn't mean he was attracted to her. Plenty of gay men idolize female celebrities.

That's Exosquad actually. Gargoyles is second.

It's a change of pace for the show. Might as well have been a spinoff. It was good, but odd as they never included anyone else from the cast but Goliath, Eliza, the gargoyle dog, and the new girl Angela

Shitposting the post

IT WAS A GOOD SHOW
no really though. best show.

>Marina Sirtis not so much.
you're kidding right? she SOLD that hatred

his agent wouldnt let him, it didnt pay enough
frakes and sirtis offered to go talk to him, but weisman didnt think it was cool to mix business and friendship like that
and yeah rhys-davies did an excellent job

nobody but weisman cares about race. she was american, that's all that matters

the main thing disney did with the world tour is fuck with them hard (think Korra) schedulewise, so it FELT like it lasted longer than it did, and the story all but ENDS as soon as they come back. plus it had a nasty hiatus in the middle.

also fun fact: weisman is colorblind
he also has like a million spinoff ideas including future shit

"Humans fear what they don't understand. And what they fear, they seek to destroy."
-Goliath.
When I was a kid I bought that hook, line, and sinker, no bait needed.
But thinking about it now pisses me off, and its been pissing me off.
If humans feared what we don't understand, curiosity wouldn't be an integral part of the human experience. If we feared what we didn't understand mystery would be intriguing or profitable, let alone have a best sellers. If we feared what we didn't understand we wouldn't research what we don't understand, and if we didn't do that that their would be no scientific progression.
Come on Goliath, you're supposed to be a philosophical hero. Don't disappoint me like this. And don't get me started on what you said about fox when she succumbed to the power of Odin's eye.

It was a great show.

The only thing I'll hold against it, something that wasn't really their fault, was that the music got incredibly repetitive.

Greg has said somewhere that they couldn't afford to hire the composer to score every episode, so they had to loop themes quite a bit to make up the difference, which made it feel like a lower quality production than it really was.

It's just unfortunate that it has to go up against Batman TAS, which had a full orchestra performing an original score to every episode.

It's lit.

yeah that was an oversimplification characteristic of 90s shit
but goliath has been reading a lot of philosophy books, so it's exactly what he WOULD say.
truth is we just fear things that are dangerous, like mysterious nocturnal creatures that could rip us in half on a whim. but a gargoyle wouldn't understand that, they have no natural predators. Nothing short of a bear could even come close to providing a danger to a fully grown male at night, and during the day literally nothing short of a sudden volcanic explosion or meteor strike.
a gargoyle wouldn't understand what they perceive as 'hatred' from us (just having-an-opinion) because their lives are so dull they don't even have names, let alone writing, fiction..
it was kind of in the middle of 'we have enough budget for an orchestrated soundtrack' and 'we don't have enough to uniquely score EVERY episode' yeah.

Goliath may be a philosophical hero but he's also pretty fucking jaded over humans treating him and his family like shit, constantly trying to murder them in their sleep, wiping out his clan, Xanatos using him, etc. This is a guy who was willing to cling to living at the castle well past the point it was viable to do so because it was just about the only thing they had left.

He's pretty bitter at least until Elisa and the younger gargoyles started turning him around.

indeed, originally his character was to be concious the intervening time, guarding the statues, immortal. so you can see hints of that
amusingly enough if he was a bit more understanding of human hatred he would have had an easier time making heads and tails of trusting them. like... these are good humans, they like you. these are bad humans, they don't like you. those good ones that seemed to get 'turned' by the bad ones? they did that because they were afraid you'd lump them all together. which you did. because they betrayed you. it's not rocket science.

You are mixing up 2 different things. There are people who cross the boundaries of the (average) human mind, like Galileo and then there are millions of people who just dont understand those things.

Every historybook is full of occasions where a few gifted individuals had to drag the rest of the world along against their will.
Everyone ridiculed those crazy people who thought about self moving cars, combustion engines, planes, wireless comunication etc until they finally HAD to accept (or rather their children accepted the new thoughts) that it worked.

When the first locomotive was put into service, they advised women not to use it, as "the speed would cause abortions".

i wish there was a simpler buzzword for the phenomenon of liberals writing history so that this is the dominating view, and then embedding it in the education system

Cultural marxism?

but that doesnt apply here, as left leaning people hate the "great men theory" and believe everything is caused by the social environment.

alright i'm gonna call it that, but if you tricked me i'll be sad
and yeah outwardly they do, but then they just use their own greatmen so it's hypocrisy, as usual

Well, it only fits loosely i think, but i got nothing better. Sorry.

urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cultural marxism
rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism

I loved how Sevarius was so into playing around being a mad scientist. It's pretty cool to see villains that know they're being cartoony, but they enjoy it anyway.

this. that episode where he's like "well i'm trying to basically jerry-rig a gargoyle but.. yknow.. strength and claws, yeah, i can give you that.. wings? well those exist, but.. flapping that much on something that big would cost too much energy. blah blah some bullshit about sun absorbing while stone, something he can't find in nature.. so i just spliced electric eels in! that makes no sense, but it's FUN! the best mad science is fun. plus it inexplicably gave them lighting powers!"
then rather than saying 'oh that nutty sevarius' greg actually canonized the sun absorbing thing.. which is nuts for several reasons, but most importantly in the first place it was only 'necessary' to explain how you could have the energy to -flap-
which they dont
so you don't have to explain that.

but then again the only reason they dont fly is because kenner wanted to sell vehicles, which they ended up bullshitting anyway after pressuring them to include them in the show, and then barely bothered to do at all