Gotham

Hey Sup Forums; honest question: Is this worth it? The ammount of threads about how great and underrated it is have toppled the shitsux ones for a while already? It probably takes more than the "watch a bunch and decide for yourself" approach, so I'd rather ask.

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youtube.com/watch?v=0d1zpt6k5OI
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watch a bunch and decide for yourself

Starts slow, it gets better in the first half of the season but is with season 2 that it really gets good in my opinion

No capeshit is worth it.

Also, I'm curious: How do they even manage to write this stuff without the general cliffhanger/twist/death-as-drama elements, since the ultimate fate of the biggest (I assume) characters is well known to begin with?

What about the core Batman element of "Batman villains are *created* by the existence of Batman" (that's the one I'm worried they're just ignoring completely)

Here's the secret about live action superhero shows: they are all uniformly terrible. Gotham is no exception.

>"Batman villains are *created* by the existence of Batman" (that's the one I'm worried they're just ignoring completely)

It becomes more that Gotham as a whole is crazy as fuck to begin with and so Batman and his villains are created by the city than by each other.

I say if you don't see the potential in the Balloonman episode, then it's not gonna be worth it for ya.

Oh so this is a shill thread.

>What about the core Batman element of "Batman villains are *created* by the existence of Batman" (that's the one I'm worried they're just ignoring completely)

that's a dumb element to begin with

Sorry, bad phrasing; I'm curious about -whether- they manage to pull it off

It's genuinely incredible. Most people watched two episodes and decided they hated it and have spent two years shitposting.

Of all the cape shows we have now, it's the first one to actually give a shit about its source material and add interesting ideas. The kid playing Bruce is the best we've ever had, and Penguin and Nygma are finally getting the respect they've always deserved. Plus their "Joker" is GOAT.

If you're all about canon, Gotham doesn't just slap names on people for references; they try to keep those characters tied with their comics origins really closely (and if they deviate too much or kill a character, they just make them a legacy villain.) what few things they've changed (like Penguin's mother being poor) always gets tied back to their official origins later (like when you meet Penguin's father,) showing that they respect the material and genuinely want to contribute to it rather than mining it for things to keep fans watching.

The show has tons of atmosphere and some of the best camerawork on TV. There's lots of little touches drawing from all over Batman media, too, like how it has BTAS's weird technology levels (Typewriters and cellphones in use at the same time.) It's a show with a ton of love in it.

Season One is slower up to the midseason break since they're setting up a bunch of stuff, and some people have posed the theory that the network mandated some police procedural episodes to ease viewers in. But the whole time they're building up to the second half and the second season, and once house of cards starts coming down it just doesn't stop.

The best part is, once it hits its stride, Gotham moves like a bullet train. Every episode tends to have like three or four major events that would take other shows a quarter season. But it still never feels rushed- it keeps things going long enough to keep you engaged, but never long enough for things to get boring.

Can't really unsee, can I

kek

> Also, I'm curious: How do they even manage to write this stuff without the general cliffhanger/twist/death-as-drama elements, since the ultimate fate of the biggest (I assume) characters is well known to begin with?

Do you think Batman is going to die in any comic you read? How often is the protagonist of any show going to die?

>What about the core Batman element of "Batman villains are *created* by the existence of Batman" (that's the one I'm worried they're just ignoring completely)
This is a meme that has only existed in Batman for a very percentage of his existence, and makes no sense when you consider that Batman exists within the DC universe. The first time I remember this even being used was in TDKR, and it was the strawman liberal who was supposed to be wrong saying it. Even in that book, Batman's foes are his mirrors, not his creations.

Remember, Alan Scott also operated in Gotham City.

Wrong.
Wrong.
Doesnt even make sense

I want Sup Forums to go and stay gone.

Stop trying to inflate a stupid lazy network procedural. The only thing this show gives a shit about is that you sit through the commercials.

I want to marry Barbara!!!

>procedural
>Gotham

damn, I figured Disney could afford shills capable of basic research

You can say that about every show in history you doofus.
Personally i love it. I feel like a kid again watching it. Best show on air right now.

A bit of comedy for you:

Both Gotham and Daredevil are shot on location in New York, and yet somehow Daredevil consistently manages to look cheaper than Smallville or Buffy.

Literally how much money are they embezzling?

It's an objectively terrible show. Defending a slapped together network show because it features comic book characters is a joke.

Have you ever even watched one episode of this show? None of the decisions they made were procedural at all. This show could have easily been cancelled after the first season based on how different it is in tone and execution. They could have easily gone for a procedural Snyder / Nolan-esque version of the Batman mythos, or a serious crime drama, yet they went for a weird as fuck Burton meets Adam West approach. They took a huge risk NOT being procedural and it paid off for them.

Ohh user. You so funny when you grumpy.

>half the thread is people giving you reasons its good
>the other half is shitposters is chimping out because they're afraid you'll watch a show they don't approve of

i think you have your answer, OP

So the argument is that it's campy and weird so it doesn't have to be good?

>Have you ever even watched one episode of this show?
You know he hasn't, user.

>None of the decisions they made were procedural at all.
I guess you could kind of argue that it is for the first few episodes? There's still a heavy continuity but the actual things the episodes are built on are individual crimes. The crimes all still feed into the overarching plot, though, but until you've seen the rest of the season you miss out on that.

>They could have easily gone for a procedural Snyder / Nolan-esque version of the Batman mythos, or a serious crime drama

Reminder that to this day some insane people still whinge about how this show isn't "Gotham Central meets The Wire."

Oh, you're THAT shitposter.

Gotham Shitposter Bingo
>Batman is supposed to create his villains!
>Bruce should be in Asia right now!
>They should have made Gotham Central!
>It's "campy" so it's not "good!"
>Free space: NOT MUH BATMAN

That's...actually about it. Those are the same complaints that get thrown out in every single Gotham thread

I've also been kind of interested in watching it lately. I like both campy and Burton + Batman villains, but I haven't checked it out yet because people were shitting on the show when it first came out.

What distinguishes Gotham from any other rote, terrible superhero show? What separates it from any other lazy network "action" show? Is it helping to elevate the perception of superheroes or just the umpteenth example that people can point to when they say they are juvenile and pointless? How is the show justified in diluting the Bat-mythos even further for non comic book readers? Are you one of the people who are constantly surprised when these shows "go to shit"?

>upper brass member ousted on sexual harassment charges

>Vertigo underoing "alterations".

>BvS a so-so movie, likely leading to other so-so movies in the same tone

>DC animated releases showing a downward spiral of quality decline, hinging all of its hope The Killing Joke

>writing getting much weaker on every DC show but Gotham and IZombie

>comics doing Rebirth in yet another attempt to try and reinvigorate the market

>WB continues to treat the comics and TV division like a red-headed stepchild because it cares more about the movies

What the hell is going on? It constantly feels like things keep bursting into flames for like the past 6 months.

It's honest to god the best Batman adaptation since TAS. People just shitposted because they have no patience.

You should really watch it from the beginning, though. It's a continuity heavy show, and single lines in Season 1 set up whole plotlines later. Plus the show's all about seeing people develop, and Season 1 does that best. By S2 everybody's completely descended into madness and they're just wallowing in it.

I kind of miss the slow burn of Season 1. It was an uncomfortable kind of comfy.

You cant even watch a bunch and decide yourself.

I dropped it after watching the first 5 episodes because it seemed meh at best. I only had time to watch Arrow & Flash.

Boy do I regret that now

I fucking didnt give AoS a chance too because forst season for that too was shit, whereas Arrow & Flash first seasons were great which gave me enough reason to invest in them

Now I feel like a wife stuck in a loveless marriage & regret on all the missed oppurtunities. It feels to late to gruel through initial seasons of Gotham & AoS to get to the good shit

Personally, I love it.

>its a disney shill having a mental breakdown episode

Nope, all comic book shows suck. Marvel's are no exception. A shill would post some innocuous and borderline stupid question like "is it worth it to watch this show?" or "is this negative criticism I keep seeing really true" in order to kickstart the maximum amount of discussion so that it's getting talked about.

Your decision was understandable, user. Nobody could have predicted that a meh-show like Gotham, with quality alterating from complete-and-utter-shit to good, but never getting really great, would become GOAT in the second season. I still don't understand how this is possible.

Some of those are the result of the same things, and some of them aren't related at all.

The TV shows have nothing to do with DC, just as Warner Brothers' movies are out of DC's hands. The sexual harassment guy is someone people have wanted gone for years, and Vertigo's restructuring is due to DC many of the things that used to be Vertigo only under their main umbrella.

Rebirth is just DC doing another continuity shifting Crisis. Marvel does the same shit, but they don't call attention to it.

What's happening is that people are paying a ton of attention to DC because BvS was a very publicized upset ("Batman AND Superman beaten? It's over! Time to trash them, losers!") and sites are looking to capitalize on that with clickbait.

nigger Gotham is two seasons now. You can watch two seasons.

You're kidding yourself if you think DC isn't in fucking shambles right now.

I'm watching the series trailer right now and it seems like every other Grim and Gritty tv show that their pushing nowadays. It seems like everyone's trying to be the Soprano's.

It's probably a good show, but I don't think it's my cup of tea.

oh child

okay marvelcuck whatever you say

I watched the whole first season, I could very well have dropped it on any episode, even the first one, but I forced myself to watch the whole of it. It was bad, pretty bad. It successfully combines the worst elements of police procedural shows with neutered-for-kids capeshit. I did not bother with season 2.

Avoid it.

Uh, are you talking about Daredevil?

That is literally not what Gotham is at all.

Somebody post the bazooka webm

so...you didn't watch it at all?

I watched this video to clarify
youtube.com/watch?v=0d1zpt6k5OI

So you regret it because you tried watching and made an opinionated decision and now people on the internet are telling you you were wrong? Don't you think comic book shows varying wildly in quality is a sign that they aren't ever really meant to be that good in the first place and no one gives a shit because they will sell?

I don't give two shits about Marvel and have reached my limit with their products they try to call movies but I did once care about DC and they are in arguably the worst shape they've ever been creatively.

I can't stand half the characters in this show, but I keep going for the other half that I love. Penguin, Falcone, Maroni, Bullock and Alfred are GOAT. Haven't started on S2 yet, though.

rip Maroni

>Dcyou bad
>Rbirth bad even though it isn't even out yet

>Losing their once unimpeachable and nearly perfect run in animated television and original movies
>Favoring marketing and gimmicks over creative direction and the richest history and legacy in comics
>Killing their heroes' perception in the medium that reaches the widest audience

Yeah, it's bad

That's like two minutes of the first episode

Season 1 has a balloon based serial killer, a Waynetech conspiracy to give people Boneitis, a guy getting sewn together from other guys, and a buttload of other stuff.

Grim and gritty it is not. It's dark, but Burton dark. Like a comic book.

>Nope, all comic book shows suck

So the problem is that you simply don't like the genre in general? Why do you post your opinion in these threads at all then?

DC is not in charge of their movies. It's also not DC's fault that action cartoons died.

Also
>the richest history and legacy in comics
>yet complains about rebirth

fuck off disneyfag

So I take it you don't read comics at all, right?

>Don't you think comic book shows varying wildly in quality is a sign that they aren't ever really meant to be that good in the first place and no one gives a shit because they will sell?
>Don't you think shows varying wildly in quality is a sign that they aren't ever really meant to be that good in the first place and no one gives a shit because they will sell?

are you fucking retarded or do you just not read your own nonsensical ramblings

No see I do. That's the problem.

This shill thread started when someone "figured it was a good idea" to ask the internet whether or not it was a good idea to watch a shitty comic book show. It's not.

>Why do you post your opinion in these threads at all then?
My guess is that some people just get so butthurt that others like things they don't that they feel the need to waste their life trying to convince the world their opinion is the only right one.

I mean, you obviously don't if you think DC's comics are bad, to say nothing of "the worst shape they've ever been creatively."

I hate Disney and their vacuous production line of superhero movies. That doesn't change the fact that DC fucking sucks right now. The fact that you think I should be excited about yet another reboot says to me that your opinion probably isn't your own.

But it is. The only one who thinks it isn't is you, and you're obviously mentally ill.

And not even in a fun way, either.

When did I say DC's comics were bad? They have almost a century of stories and characters that are amazing. It doesn't change the fact that their line is terrible now and has been that way for some years.

No mental illness would be automatically equating opinions that don't agree with yours as mental illness. And thinking defending a shitty Fox show is a worthwhile endeavor because it has some comic book characters in it.

>The fact that you think I should be excited about yet another reboot says to me that your opinion probably isn't your own.

>you don't share my opinion so obviously it's not really your true opinion

No the user you're talking to but what does it matter if someone likes or is interest in something you're not interested in? Why do you feel the need to prove to strangers that your opinion is some sort of truth instead of just an opinion?

>yet another reboot
>the DC reboot maymay

And that's how I know you don't read comics.

*Not

Look spout DC's PR rhetoric at me all you want, for all intents and purposes it's another fucking reboot designed to artificially boost sales with costume changes and renumbering while still somehow failing to put effort into fostering creativity and talent.

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It is the best live action cape show currently, and I'm counting Daredevil in that regard.

I think that the company wars speak combined with the strong defending of the objectively shitty creative decision at DC leans towards that person being a shill and not just stupid.

>shitposter spends whole thread frothing at the mouth over watching the show

>out of nowhere, a "concerned DC fan" starts crying about how DC is doomed and horrible

>An advertisement for Gotham gets derailed so the fallback company wars button gets repeatedly pushed

>get called a marvel shill
>panic
>start trying to call everyone with anything positive to say about DC a shill

I think this guy is officially broken

Well summer's coming. I'm sure I can fit some time into my backlog clearing.

Fuck Marvel, I don't give a shit about them and for all I know they rape babies. That doesn't change the fact that DC sucks right now.

I think some anons are still bitter that they didn't get /cape/ to get rid of cape-related tv-movies and series.

But that's objectively false.

You're probably right. Though I don't know why Sup Forums would shitpost so heavily on Sup Forums, and we never had problems with the toonfags in the past

You haven't explained your position beyond repeating the word "reboot" over and over, which you've been told is false.

You have to see why we assume you're a shitposting Disney employee. It'a a lot more believable than an actual person being as obstinate in their ignorance as you seem to be.

One above mediocre book that's getting elevated to GOAT standards because of how dismal everything else is is a perfect example of the terrible state of DC.

>/cape/
>moving all the capeshit, except the comics they originated from

That's crap. If cape happened I'd want all cape related discussion moved since that'd be the board topic.

And then this place would be empty.

lol ok kid

No you see it's not false you fucking moron. It's a marketing gimmick. It's artificially inflating sales by preying on the collector's market. It's admitting they have been making mistakes but not actually changing anything. It's the millionth example that creativity is not a priority at DC. It's a reboot. Fuck Disney, Fuck Marvel, Fuck DC, Fuck anyone who participates in company wars for real and for profit, and Fuck you.

>Though I don't know why Sup Forums would shitpost so heavily on Sup Forums

because they can't have cape-threads on Sup Forums, even if there is one, there are either not enough people to discuss it or its filled with shitposting/memes, Evan-posting and Kino-posting being the latest ones. Sup Forums is the only other board who kinda does care enough to keep a discussion going. People on Sup Forums may not think much about comics and anything related to it but they still want to discuss the movies/series somewhere and also tell about what they liked without being called a pleb.

The biggest problem is that they bring all the shit with them, all the memes and retarded shit like RT scores which Sup Forums never cared about much before.

I just want the movies forced back to Sup Forums or locked into MCU and DCEU generals respectively so I can filter them.
until they get purged from the site for being full of circeljerking and offboard discussion

I'd be for it if it was superhero comics and media too, since the mods have a conniption whenever people talk about superhero games/shows.

My problem is where do we draw the line? Only DC and Marvel stuff, or do we include Indies?
Do things like Gargoyles count, since it's tied to 90s comic books themes so heavily? Does Teen Titans Go count, even though it has more in common with Powerpuff Girls? Can Sup Forums no longer talk about the influence on western animation the X-Men cartoon and BTAS had post-/cape/?

Plus indiefans have and will fight against any kind of superhero board, since they're afraid that if capes were removed there would be more Steven Universe threads, and then even fewer people would make indie threads (there was a whole /qa/ thread about this.)

fuck off disneyfag

>disney employees forbidden from acknowledging reality, even to maintain their "cover"

I hope Mickey Mouse and Captain America skullfuck your eye sockets until you die.

So did you forget that you were pretending to be a DC fan at the beginning of this little tantrum?

But then they come here and immediately start shitting up every thread related to those topics

I don't think that's the right solution. That would mean you could never discuss the Batman movies or Donner's Superman, and things like how they relate to or influenced the characters. I agree the MCU posting is out of control, but banning it from Sup Forums is not a solution. Especially since Marvel is now basically the MCU expanded universe. There's even a /qa/ thread complaining about them.

I'd agree that a general for releases and reviews or something would be nice, but Sup Forums's mods HATE the idea of generals since it's "not muh board culture"

I like the stories that the DC universe has told in the past and the characters that bring them to life. I have been reading them pretty much my whole life. This does not mean I cannot criticize them. It does not preclude me from hating their current output. If anything it makes me more qualified. You stupid fuckers seem to think that you need to pledge undying loyalty to a corporation if you have once enjoyed their output. But then again you're Gotham fans so it's not that surprising.

>Batman movies or Donner's Superman
No one is talking about this stuff anyway. And if it was really wanted to be discussed, then you bring up a thread about the character and the movies' characterization could be included, just not the focus.
As for board culture, the mods should realize how much of this board has turned into movie talk and isn't concerned with the actual comics.

Calm down, Mouseketeer. I'm sure your boss won't fire you because you got caught once.

Go post some laughing chris evanses. Youse should help get your numbers up

I hope you get violently fisted by Mickey so hard that you throw up one of his oversized gloves and then Tinkerbell flies you up to the top of the Disney castle and impales your loose asshole with it and your dying breaths are spent perched listening to the saccharine opening music as the logo blazes across the sky.

I AM DETECTIVE GORDON AND I AM THE SMALLEST MAN ALIVE

How much are you getting paid?

>So you regret it because you tried watching and made an opinionated decision and now people on the internet are telling you you were wrong?

Gotham got better in the second season I hear. I have to brave through over so many episodes more to get to the good stuff

With AoS literally dozens and the payoff with winter soldier already slipped away

How did it go so wrong

I have to watch the shitty first season to get the second season

Is your time really that important that you can't sit down for an hour or two and decide for yourself whether or not you enjoy the show? Jesus Christ user just watch an episode or two.

and this is exactly what I was talking about.