Damn, not often that a show like this improves after the first season but S2 was just exponentially better...

Damn, not often that a show like this improves after the first season but S2 was just exponentially better. Some episodes were borderline kino. Gotta say one of the things I appreciate the most about this show are the little touches of humanity that go unnoticed but go a long way towards making things feel more organic and relatable. Things like Dev texting Francesca and it autocorrects a word that he has to go back and fix.

Though on the other hand for every human and grounding moment there's dumb cringe shit like "Eating in Italy is my favorite thing!" And like 90% of Arnold and Dev's interaction.

I'm in love with Alessandra Mastronardi now too. Aziz needs to stop creating these perfect manic pixie dreamgirls.

Go away Aziz ur show sux

I actually found it kinda funny that Aziz is probably the least interesting part of his own show for sure.

Regardless of whether someone likes the humor or not, the show tackles real emotional issues in such a masterful way that it manages to make the viewer a little more introspective. The clashing realist and romantic decisions that Dev has to make mirror an internal conflict that many people face as they enter true adulthood. Sort of like a coming of age story that has no definitive lesson to be learned other than that life is about joy, pain, and compromise.

That said, as much as I enjoyed Denise's episode this season, it's still idiotic that the black, female, lesbian character is the only one without any sort of "goofball" moments.

>can't allow an intersectional minority to be the butt of a joke

This show is almost "white knight" level in the way all women are treated and the opposite for white men who are always the problem or butt of a joke.
Is Denise anything other than the token gay character? Why not just have her treated like all the other characters and take the kid gloves off when handling the "special" characters. Keep telling people they are different and hated and they'll start to see enemies everywhere.

What do you consider goofball moments? They rag on her pretty regularly in the episode and it kinda makes sense that the butch lesbian acts like a hardass and not a goof.

Idk I think you guys look into it a little too much. Hell, even that white male comment doesn't make much sense considering Arnold is pulling hot bitches regularly apparently.

Every other character in the show does something cartoonishly stupid at least every once in a while, even Brian's fucking dad the hardass Chinese elder. Denise only makes entirely level-headed decisions to the point that SHE stands out as abnormal for not being a fucking cartoon character at least some of the time.

She brought an instagram hoe to thanksgiving dinner. Completely alienated everyone, and got made fun of the following year. That's about as goofball a decision she could make in relation to the story.

This show is so fucking comfy.

i didn't understand the very end right before the credits

did she not go back to italy, immediately leave her fiance, and that scene in bed with dev was that very same night, or is that set in the more distant future, or did it not happen and she's just dreaming it?

>Dressing like a tard to Thanksgiving
>Thinking Dev was Black
>Confusing Disenfranchised Minorities with McDonalds
>Brings a Thot to Thanksgiving with the instagram name nipplesandtoes23
>Makes it clear they roast her every year for it

Not to mention how arguably shitty and "problematic" her family was as a whole. So this racial/minority bias just doesn't really make sense. For every dog girl with a racist statue and Francesca saying curry person you had black people mindlessly defending OJ and MJ and being homophobic as shit.

Like I said pretty sure you guys just need to find something social justice-y to complain about.

But it's a real world mistake. Someone could feasibly make that decision not knowing it would go that poorly. Again, everyone else is a cartoon character, Denise is a real person.

go back and watch italian neo-realism films when you need more. La Dolce Vita, L'Avventura, all that good shit.

It's probably not made clear on purpose. If they film a third season it still leaves the story open for them to take in any direction they like.
I interpreted it as she just stayed in NY while Pino went back to Italy.

Good. Pino can fuck off and go jack off onto his precious tiles, he doesn't deserve an angel like that if he's not willing to shower her with affection around the clock like a real man

He was with her for 10 years. It's the perfect set up for showing that Dev only saw one side of her and while she may be great she isn't some perfect angel. Dev will ruin it somehow and they'll break up. She's now stuck in NY with no friends and no job(?).

>listing things she did as a child that a child would do
>dressing like lesbians dress is now cartoonish

He has no job now too and is unemployable since he's forever affiliated with a rapist

They said it's intentionally ambiguous but I think it's pretty clear she chose Dev and didn't go with Pino. I feel like this show is better than "It was all a dream!"

She's lying awake while Dev sleeps because Dev won and got the girl with no loss and so sleeps peacefully but she had to give up her entire life and is kept awake wondering if she made the right decision.

One thing I gotta give the show credit for is I sorta turned on Francesca RIGHT before Dev did. This whole "I don't love Pino. I don't want to be lukewarm. I love you. Buuuuut I can have a comfy life and family where I'm provided for so yeah I'll stay with him." Fuck that.

But I also thought Arnold's message to Dev at the end was really poignant. When you really think about it there's so much of an uphill battle when it comes to what a relationship with the two of them would mean. It really gave me flashbacks of La La Land where the audience wants the picturesque movie romance where everything falls into place but sometimes that's better left in the movies and the best/realistic outcome isn't the romantic one.

I think if you really look into it too it wraps full circle back to Arnold and Dev talking about Arnold's ex too. That idea of some people being a season in your life and how a prolonged relationship sometimes loses its passion because it wasn't meant to last it was meant to be one of those seasons. That's why the final shot doesn't feel like a happy ending. You know you WANT Dev and Francesca but you know it's not what's best for either of them.

>He has no job now too and is unemployable since he's forever affiliated with a rapist
True. Sometimes love is a financial decision too.

Are you fucking stupid? The scene in the bed is a flashback to when she slept over the first time. Evidenced by them wearing the same clothes, in the same positions, while it was snowing outside. The scene is meant to show an intimate moment for her in their relationship that she's considering.

The end is open ended in that you don't know what she's going to do, but offers you insight into what is going through each of their heads.

How is so much of Sup Forums so dense?

They're not wearing the same clothes.

She was wearing a white shirt the first time.
In the second,it's a different shirt and she's not wearing a ring.

Go check.

I get some old Woody Allen vibes from the show a lot of the time. I'd like to see Aziz and Alan take a shot at a movie once they're ready. I think they have it in them for sure.

Haven't seen anyone else do that slice of life style as well in a long time.

She works in a small town pasta shop with nothing keeping her in Italy other than her relationship with Pino. The argument that she'd have to uproot her entire life for him is ridiculous. All she would have to do is break up with Pino.

>Evidenced by them wearing the same clothes

They're not. I checked as soon as I finished the episode.

>it's a "guy writes a show where his self-insert gets exotic hot women" joint

Shit, stop making sense man. Why can't shows have perfect happy endings without pulling this shit?

Don says happiness is the moment before you need more happiness. So, don't chase happiness.

What are you supposed to chase, sadness? What's the point if you don't chase happiness?

Chase contentment? You're always going to want more, you're never going to be satisfied. Learn to appreciate what you have.

Honestly? Fuck Dev, he doesn't know what he wants until someone tells him he may want it. Then he pouts if he can't have it.
Several months earlier he was down on relationships and their natural progression towards marriage\family and their longevity in general-- but I'm supposed to feel sorry for him because Francesca doesn't want to break off her 10 year relationship for him because he's rich enough to spend time with her everyday?
Nah.

Fuck Francesca too, but to a lesser extent.

Happiness is a feeling. Feelings are fickle. What says is right. You have to learn to be content.

Yeah but by that logic, I'll chase appreciation for what I have. Then when I reach it, it'll be the moment just before I want MORE appreciation for what I have

Then in the end I'll never be appreciative enough and that'll just end up making me miserable.

You'll grow up eventually. Hopefully.

I wouldn't be so sure. But thanks for being optimistic.

For now I'll just keep chasing happiness

I've never watched this but there are many, many shows that improve after the first season

most of them, actually

Francesca is in that nearly thirty, enjoyed having fun, but now wants to settle down phase. Dev ain't gonna be entirely down with that. This will only end badly.

An aging grandma who would have to run a pasta shop by herself and take care of the grade school grandson who lost his mother?

You don't understand how important family is to Hispanics and Italians. I have a friend who has spent all his savings and is slaving away in a job he hates and all he does with his money every paycheck is give it to his family. It's just expected of them. That's why there's this stereotype of white people abandoning their loved ones in nursing homes but all these minorities take grandma in and wipe her ass until she croaks.

Not only that but she has her own family as well as a safe and comfortable small town life with Pino in her near future. With Dev she has NY passion but nothing certain. Hell, Dev just lost his job in a bad way.

Like she said leaving everything for Dev because they had a fun month is dangerous.

I find hard to believe anyone like this show the writing is so retarded
>OH YEAH LOOK AT THIS OLD RANDOM PERSON IT REMIND US OF THE IMPORTANCE OF OLD PEOPLE

Dropped that shitshow right there.

It seems like Dev wants to settle down with somebody for years.

Plus he's indian so it's like in his blood and he's already late finding a spouse

She's already been away from Italy for months. What the fuck do you think the grandmother and the kid have been doing for all this time? Waiting for Francesca to come back so they can continue their lives?

I'll probably get downvoted to hell for this but...

Seriously I loved the first season

Tried watching s2 last night and I was incredibly bored. The whole Bicycle Thieves homage was so forced it was cringey. Can't recall the last time a show did a whole 180 for me

This. Season one was funny and kind of upbeat and quirky in an OK way

Season just made me feel like shit every episode. How does anybody like watching things that make you feel extremely unhappy?????????

That's the difficulty with this show. Every situation is a "Yeah but..."

I think my ultimate take away is that Pino isn't necessarily right for Francesca but I also don't think it should be Dev she gives everything up for.

10 years is too long. You either know or you don't by that point and she clearly didn't truly love him. It was a "traditional" marriage situation that she would have likely been brought up to believe in living in a small Italian town. She even told Dev, you date for ten years and you get married that's just what you do right?

But at the same time our millenial US idea of what love is is more aligned with Dev in that "feeling the passion" type of thing. Our generation is very into that hot and heavy spur of the moment love. But the show beats it into you in the first two episodes that that kind of love doesn't last. And I think it's important to note that we never saw the early years of Pino and Francesca. They very well could have had a similar passion just like Arnold and his ex, just like Dev and Francesca. Which is why Arnold's speech is so important in the end when he explains that their relationship is doomed to fail. And is why the final moments carry such a heavy weight because you were just told by Arnold, who Dev agreed with, that this wasn't meant to be.

I think the lesson here is much like one you're supposed to get from 500 Days of Summer and stories of that ilk. Dev tells you "some relationships are seasons" in the beginning for a reason.

Which if you want to get meta I'd say give away that Francesca will not last in S3. Relationships are SEASONS. Rachel S1. Francesca S2. Aziz also said he wants to settle down get married and have a kid before S3.

>Sara never returns after the first episode
>no canon black waifus in anything ever

I think a lot of it is seeing some of your own problems put into an easily digestible perspective. It's easier to let things out when you can project and visualize things on other people.

I don't like Aziz and I think his comedy is shit but MoN is actually pretty good

Like you wouldn't do it, you twat

Am I the only one who thinks this show is too preachy?

Agreed. His lines are honestly the weakest in the show. Everything he does is cringe. "You'll leave New York and enter Cuddleville" his shitty "___ is my favorite...THING!" jingle.

There definitely feels like a real disconnect sometimes where you get pure gold like Ep1, I Love New York, Thanksgiving and First Dates which are directed and written so well. But then you've got some actual DIALOGUE writing that is just garbage.

I've actually felt the exact opposite. It's one of the first shows I've felt does "diversity" well because not only is it organic and doesn't feel like it's in my face telling me diversity needs to happen, but it shows the darkness of everyone.

It makes jokes about black people and minorities having to struggle harder than white people but in the same episode shows this black family acting homophobic and uncomfortable when one of their own is revealed to be gay.

The religion episode doesn't go full on hat tipping atheist but nor does it go the usual liberal route of blindly defending Islam in every way and making it out to be something innocent persecuted by the bad white west. I liked the way Dev tried to go the traditional "Why do you guys get to pick and choose route" because the way the dad countered about it being less about what he does and doesn't believe and more about them feeling like failures as parents for Dev losing touch with his cullture. It was a unique take that made it so neither side felt like the "bad guys."

Even little things that could come across preachy like the black lady condom jar gets thrown back in Devs face.

>his shitty "___ is my favorite...THING!" jingle.

You don't have dumb little catchphrases you do with your best friend? :(

Any kind of dumb inside jokes with friends are generally more organic to conversation and in my experience come about more from teasing than elation. This just felt a little too meme-y. Like a Hot Topic shirt phrase.

Ted Mosby would have fuck her in less than half an hour

Top qt

Sara was a cunt this season anyway.
Poor man's Jessica Williams was getting too much like real life Jessica Williams.

Shit I was thinking of wrong black girl, I'm tipsy.
Yeah I was bummed british black girl didn't show up again.

He's a rich TV star in the show, are you kidding? It's being conservative. Somebody with his job and money, far darker and far uglier and shorter than him could pull in more beautiful white women than what's being shown.

When does he ever complain about that? The love of Arnold's life was black

>hot white chicks
/r9k/ pls. You're putting the pussy way too high on the fictional pedestal.

Other than Francesca all the white girls he's with are crazy average.
The 30s are not a good age for caucasian women. They lose their youthful glow and aren't yet in the sweet spot of MILFdom.

Also his game is pretty tested on the show, he's funny, smart, cute enough, and money isn't an object.

>and money isn't an object

This pissed me off so much. Actual Italian here and his experiences there that they showed are that of a rich person. How he dresses, vespa rentals, eating at the nicest restaurants
Probably why nobody wanted to cooperate with him loosing his phone. Oh boohoo rich foreign babyboy lost his phone, however will he survive??

The fact that he dropped his life in NEW YORK CITY to live in Italy for three months made it pretty clear we're dealing with a well off guy here user

I'm not rich, but I've lived abroad for a few months. I'm saying more the way he was acting and showing off. Modena isn't *that* big, if I lived there I'd definitely consider stealing from him if I saw him going around rubbing how rich he is in people's faces.

He was asking for it

His friend used connections to get him s dinner Rez. Yeah what a dick. Youre using all these examples from when he was with Arnold celebrating. The Vespasian as well were a fuck it thing after the wedding was going bad. The wedding of two clearly wealthy as fuck people.

His day to day life was living with a family in their pasta shop,

...

hey retard come watch leftovers already

Nah it's trying to be kino so it's not kino.

I think both Dev and Pino see her as a support character to their main stories. She says an interesting thing in the last episode when Dev says he felt used, she replies "I felt every single moment I shared with you, I was there too" which I don't think he got, that she is a real person. I'm not sure if it's bad writing that Dev is such a shit this season because it could be easily explained he's just that way and possibly that's why he does acting, and also why the show borrowed from films so heavily (and seeing himself kissing Francesca in the film)

It is kind of different because he's Indian

i was so expecting the chef to have banged the italian qt

P I N O I S K I N O

It's only really once he begins to be rejected he gets kinda dickish and it's a pretty natural reaction after being told I don't love my fiancé and want to be with you but marrying him is convenient for me.

Yeah I agree with this, it handles its topics well. But it's weird seeing that paired on the same show with this kind of self-insert stuff

Girls was similar in being a writer-actor project but when it went into a kind of preachy modes where the characters say dumb heavy-handed shit about diversity or women it's easy to believe it's just because the characters are young and think dumb shit, rather than reflective of the writer. With MoN it reads like the self-insert romance is of the same quality as the organic diversity writing and thus should be read as sincere, and consequently poorer writing

I don't know what to think of this season really, compared with the first. I didn't feel like I was confronted with these issues of discontinuous quality in the first season