I don't know how can you support this kind of system

I don't know how can you support this kind of system

wtf i hate capitalism now

wtf i hate entrepreneurship

Shit b8 m8.

Debunk it then if you think it's bait.

A fucking leaf

Change the text in the last panel to "I did when I started my company"

It was posted by a Canadian

I used to have the rebuttall to this saved, anybody have it?

wtf I hate leaves now

I can summarize


Overhead

>Be rich
>Tell fags I'll pay them to make shit for me
>Tell them I get the profit made off of what's made but depending on the situation they get a profit share check
>Tell them I'll buy machines from profit made and hire more fags and also manage everything
>Fags agree to this because they make profit as well
>If they don't, oh well, they're free to do as they please

The whole system is predicated upon the idea of owning land, so no.

And your solution to that would be?

This comic goes round and round, and just short of fully explaining a completely functional system, it slams on the COMMUNISM brakes.

Capitalists built up capital through commerce then invested in industrial production. After they were powerful enough, they overthrew the landowners and took control of the Western world.

Why do commies treat this as some shady and secret history?

it's right but le communism may may can't work

The whole point of this comic is the concept that he's getting paid $35 a day of the $50 that's made in a day to tell him to work faster.

That implies whoever is doing the marketing, shipping, packaging, preparing, quality assurance, maintaining the machines, bills, electricity, and plumbing, as well as whatever taxes and zoning shit he has to deal with, is doing it all for free, or HE is the one doing it.

Once again, commies don't understand economics

Wow. This cartoon is almost like "labor theory of value" in cartoon form. But that couldn't be, because the labor theory of value is junior high shit believed by pseudo-intellectuals.

Don't like it? Why don't you become the business owner? Try it and you'll find out it's not that easy.

>He pays you 35 dollars a day to tell him to work faster?
>No, I pay 10 dollars in taxes, 5 on equipment and the building and storage and such, 5 on other workers to take care of the machines and manage sales and acquisition, 7 in marketing, 8 in research and development. I myself pocket perhaps 5 dollars of his labor, if I don't have a need to invest some of that in case an unexpected business expense comes up.
>...oh

Yet no company sells products for a net of zero, why bother? And most make up costs on the back end as well, I.e. labor.

If your concept of economics is the average CEO earns 4000% than their employees despite virtually not doing any work (and their capital is usually coming from daddy)
then it's a fucked up system

You know nothing of starting a business or how the cost of labor is determined.

The businessman took on risk by starting his operation. In order to buy the machines and create the ability for his workers to make a living doing simple tasks he had to either invest a large portion of earnings or take in a lot of debt his employees have not. As a result of this the earnings he makes are justified, especially since 9 out of 10 businesses fail.

If the worker is getting screwed over then he should quit and find something else to do. If he's getting paid shit then it's because his labor is easy to acquire and therefore not worth paying any more than he is receiving. Labor works the same as capital in supply and demand, that the more of a kind of labor there is the less the labor is worth. That's why specialized labor like engineering or medical fields pays far more and companies pay those people well, because the labor is harder to acquire and if they paid less than market value someone else offering better pay would be able to take the labor for themselves from any business trying to underpay specialized workers.

And also, a fucking leaf, I swear you Canadians are the leftist shit posting version of Australia but at least Australia knows when they shit post.

>Come up with product society will find useful and valuable
>Organize entire company to produce it
>Risk huge sums of money to buy equipment, factories, which could ruin you if your product is bad, or you mishandle management
>Offer jobs to people interested, and vet workers.

Yeah. I dunno. Making risky investments that paid off, coming up with useful products, creating jobs.

Why the fuck should he get anything?

Bottomline: People won't build companies if they aren't rewarded because it's risky and there's no promise it will work. And these companies benefit society by offering jobs and creating useful products.

No reward for the risk and you'll have no jobs and no good products.

>despite virtually not doing any work
Hurr work = physical labor
Get on with the times and stop being a retarded commie, to be a CEO one needs a shitton of studies and training or else he'll ruin the business in the first year, maybe earlier.

...

you showed him

Where exactly is the risk if your capital / infrastructure is already been established?

How is it justified that CEOs literally earn 300 times the normal worker. This is not even including companies with literal monopoly on services that they can hike up prices, people have no choice but to pay for it, take more profit while keep their workers' wages stagnant?

man you killed it bro, sweet dubs of dumb thumb nail

You saved a thumbnail you moron.

Is the American IQ so low you can't even post proper images?

Fucking texans

it's really cool that this cartoonist lives in a place with no other cost of goods sold beyond the capital investment needed for the machine (which apparently was paid for using products the machine produced after it was installed) and the cost of paying the laborer.

It's cool that wherever he is from manufacturers don't need electricity, marketing, distribution, storage, land, property, plant, equipment, sales teams, hiring managers, R&D or a decentralized decision-making process.

It sounds like a pretty cool place to live.

In all seriousness though, if it's so fucking easy for some guy that doesn't do anything but yell at workers to build a factory and make goods without any skills or capital, why don't the moron workers just do that?

Because the same way the capitalists overthrew the land owning aristocracy of old one day the workers will overthrow the capitalists :^)

>What is taxes
>What is advertising
>What is R&D
>What is rent
>What are tools
>What is transportation
>What is administrative and support staff
>What is product depreciation
>What is demand not always meeting supply
>What is FUCKING OVERHEAD

>CEOs don't work
>and their "capital" mostly comes from "daddy"

Just fuck off back to leftshitpol please, you're not convincing anyone who isn't braindead and most braindead people are already leftists

>the capitalist has no skills or money of his own
>anyone could do what he does
>its the WORKERS that are really making the money for him

If what he does is so easy, why don't these fucking workers go do what he is doing and get rich?

All pointless middleman, symptoms of a sick capitalist system :^)

>CEOs don't work

I really want this meme to end.

Why don't the workers just use their psychic sonar to scan the brainwaves of potential customers, then teleport the goods of their labor directly to them?

They could pretty much just cut out the middleman and we could have a communist utopia.

Hell, let's go a step further: why doesn't everyone just conjure all the necessary products and resources self-sufficiently so we can finally have a post scarcity society?

they forget the part where the worker enters a voluntary contract to produce for the business owner

For a while I wondered about that. Communists were so powerful not so long ago, why instead of trying to take over countrie, they didn't start their own companies?

It wouldn't be impossible, if you get the professionals needed to run a business in, you start it like any capitalistic business, and divide ownership among the workers.

Then I saw live things like this (attempting) to work. First, they're either hippie arts&crafts overpriced shit, or some organic farmers who couldn't meet the requirement to get their stuff sold on a SWPL market.

They're all a mess, completely unorganized, unable to function because of relationship drama. Their products are also shit, and they can't produce them reliably and efficiently. Resulting in high prices and no sales.

And these are fucking t-shirts, beads and crap like that. Imagine trying to build airplanes like that.

Even if it worked smoothly, would the average worker notice too much difference? The overseer would just be a boss, keeping the workers in line and producing. And the worker gets his pay at the end of the month all the same, the difference is that it would be as like he was a minor stockholder. Which the modern worker can already do, just go and buy shares from the place he works in.

who bought the materials to make the product?

Luckily I saved the actual one. No need to thank me.

Communist is code word for economically retarded- they don't understand any of that.

Working so you're boss can enrich himself just so you can afford to eat and have a roof over your head is about as voluntary as forking over your wallet at gun point.

>wehhhh it's not fair
That "gentle laborer" was not smart enough to become a producer
He was not clever enough to capitilize on a need or want he could sell to the consumer
He's simply too dumb to do anything else - and the job he does could be done by anybody. He's replaceable, nonessential. Welcome to capitalism - you'd better have something you can sell.

...

Why stop there? Why not shake your fist at God for requiring that you eat and drink to continue living?

He owns the machines, if the worker has a problem why doesn't he buy his own machines and make his own product?

Why doesn't the worker just start his own business if he thinks it's unfair?

Because a boss sitting at home doing nothing and taking the Lion's share of the profits can be cut out of the picture and society would go on just fine.

Proofs?

Yeah that's working really well in Venezuela

If you think the boss takes home the lion's share of revenue you're a god damned moron

He might make more than you, individually. But nowhere near the total cost of labor. In fact he probably makes the tiniest sliver of a penny for every dollar you take home. The fact that you are unable to understand the concept of economy of scale is one of the reasons you aren't the boss being paid more money to understand things and make decisions.

clearly the owner put in the intial and most valuable work. I don't understand this childish concept of huge pay for menial labor.

make your own fucking company

Communism has been thoroughly debunked several thousand times, why would anyone actually give you any credence whatsoever?

Communism is heresy.

if it was that easy everyone would do it

there are many self employed people

not everyone has the intelligence of even the desire to accomplish that

>why don't the moron workers just do that?

Because communism where the workers own the means of production is better!

Besides, if I do all that, i would be ripping off all my employees! It's not like I can just engage in profit-sharing thus building a company that embodies my ideals and helps others not only directly through gainful employment but by example of how such a system IS truly possible.

Why would I even bother?

Workers lack the necessary capital, that's the whole point of class society. A small elite class disproportionately controls property, power and wealth, which the disenfranchised class, the one that actually makes the world go around, is left with scraps.

Capitalism was birthed with violence but like feudalism, it has reached its end, destroying the planet in its mad quest for profit.

...

>Where exactly is the risk if your capital / infrastructure is already been established?
At this point, it's finding good clients and negotiating with them. The risk is that you might be undercut, lose clients, etc.

>A small elite class disproportionately controls property, power and wealth
Which they should. Problems only arise when those people are jewish.
Stupid people don't have the right to autonomy.

Thanks bro

I see what you did there and im loving it.

Underneath the surface of every commie ive ever talked to is a simpleton who thinks communism = them being in charge and getting free stuff. There might be a more proper term for it, but I call the new communism ideas techno-communism because they always seem to argue that despite every communist society becoming a totalitarian autocracy even more ruthelessly exploitive than capitalism ever was, they claim that its just because they didnt have enough computers and robots n stuff.

They are just so sure that if they try again, and super duper double dog promise for realsies not to slaughter the opposition and oppress dissent in a crushing orwellian police state again it would just all work out.

See, cuz we'll take all the rich people's money and use it to build a bunch of free stuff for everybody, and since we used a bunch of apple products, colorful hairdye, and 60's retro horned glasses this time it will just all work out.

Free che guevera T-shirts and iphones for all!

Dude literally typed the word "profits" not revenue.

In the case of small businesses, this is likely true

no problem user.

>Stupid people don't have the right to autonomy.

That's what the capitalist class would like, yes. Sadly for them, it isn't true, as numerous revolutions have shown.

Employee wages come out of revenue, not profit. By definition he cannot receive part of the profit.

He most likely typed the words profits with an assumption that when an iPhone costs $20 to make but sells for $600 then the worker who made the phone created $580 of profit.

Are you really arguing that stupid people should be put into power?
Should retards man nuclear power plants?
Should retards manage the economy, or lack thereof?
For the record, capitalism is stupid as well, it's so boring.
Nothing important or fun ever gets done.

t. militant Platonist

It's fucking simple, just imagine a small business pizza shop, hiring its' first worker or two, then stfu for being so stupid.

>Are you really arguing that stupid people should be put into power?
no, I believe in horizontal democracy

>Should retards man nuclear power plants?
>Should retards manage the economy, or lack thereof?
No, workers and experts should. from each according to his ability etc.

You'll still have specialist workers under socialism. That's the point, to let people fulfil their talents, free of the threat of unemployment, homelessness, hunger etc.

If you're too stupid to even raise the start-up capital you have no business being a factory owner.

Retards don't make it to factory owner because they're retarded, and only because they're retarded.

>>No, workers and experts should. from each according to his ability etc.
But who should decide that?
In the end, you're just letting a group of the elite control everything.
Again.

...

Everyone has the right to autonomy. Go live in the fucking woods if you don't want to earn money needed to pay for a modern home.

Poor people don't starve in real countries that aren't just lines on a map. Lots of people starve in africa, because moving excess food there would be enormously expensive and ultimately ineffective due to lack of penetration and roads and shit. You'd literally have to effectively colonize those countries to end starvation there, and that's a big nono.

The vast majority of vacant homes are in the process of being sold. There are extremely few livable houses which are both vacant and not on the housing market.

Debt is not necessarily a bad thing. Anyone who has a mortgage is in debt. The fact that they were able to take out a loan is why they're able to live in a fancy modern house with insulation and electricity and running water in the first place.

Its all about risk, the Owner stands much more to lose if something happens to the company. The worker stands to lose little besides his job. If the worker was smart he would ask the boss for a raise if he worked so hard.

>not saging if you absolutely can't resist and have to respond to obvious bait

Why do people do this? I'm dead serious. Have people forgotten about sage? Do they really think he's being genuine?

Yeah and this time they're making decisions based on how it will benefit society, and not just their pockets.

>But who should decide that?

The workers themselves will vote on these things, through unions, workplace councils and so on. Already happens all over the world, but it's constrained by capitalism

>In the end, you're just letting a group of the elite control everything.

they wouldn't control anything, they'd be subject to instant revocation and recall. Power comes from private property and distortions of wealth. Without private property socio-economic hierarchies will fade.

If it was that easy, everyone would do it. Profits made by a business owner are the reward for the massive inherent risk in starting a company up.

Sage hasn't been a thing for over a year

Also ignoring idiots rather than refuting them is how we got into the mess we're in today.

Kind of a tangent, but if an I-phone were made in the US it would cost $2,000 retail.

And its this huge mystery why all the jobs are going away to china.

If the USA still made everything domestically workers wages would be higher but inflation would mean its equivalent to what they get paid now.

But inflation doesnt hurt middle or lower class people the most, because they tend not to have many liquid assets. It would hurt the folks with millions in the bank because very quickly thier millions would be worth half to a 3rd as much as it was when they stashed it away.

So we are outsourcing jobs essentially to protect the wealthy ruling class's bank accounts. If we suddenly started making everything domestic and raised wages to meet inflation the rich would very swiftly go broke.

Because he did not start from the bottom but the high middle.
No one rich ever started from the bottom.

>to be a CEO one needs a shitton of studies and training or else he'll ruin the business in the first year, maybe earlier.

What a CEO mostly needs is connections and a team of advisors to do all the work collecting and analyzing data with which to make decisions. The CEO's only real job is to take the blame for wrong decisions. Somehow (((they've))) managed to set things up that (((they))) multi-million dollar bonuses even when the business does tank though.

>Power comes from private property and distortions of wealth
wealth is simply a representation of power, the power of safety.
A man will follow a man who gives him the promise of shelter, of food, of comfort.
This is what money is.
An idea which represents this and many other things.

However, there are also other determinants of power.
The ability to kill, or perceived threat.
Charisma.
The reality is that these two, just like the first three, are derived from basic survival instinct.

Power comes from manipulating human nature.

And who will stop them from benefiting only themselves?

You don't like the arrangement, quit and start your own company.

10+5+5+7+8+5=40+15=55

Um user...

simple really. The businessman took the risk to make a buisiness. The employee did not risk any investment money in creating a company, and nationally 80% of new businesses fail annually.

So the entrepreneur beat a 20% odd, and is allowed to profit as much as the free market allows him

so an invention is never ownership of the inventor?

What is RISK. The capitalist has to put up "CAPITAL," hence the name, and weather most the risk in the operation. The worker only risk losing his job, whereas the owner might lose a lot more money.

More risk = more reward. It's fair.

>Leave it up to Canadians to understand how ANYTHING works.
>If you kill your enemies they win.

now now, stop being niggerish and talk like a decent human being

I wish I could, it's illegal to not be a part of the system here in the 4th Reich.

>implying venezuela is not capitalist

You fucker, I didn't read the file size and tried to click it
Here's your (you), you earned it

There was an ad hominem there, but there was nothing the third-lowest rung in your post.

>Kind of a tangent, but if an I-phone were made in the US it would cost $2,000 retail.
No, the salary is a minusscule part of the iphone cost. It's mostly resources and machines, cuck.

>Then instead of you paying him, he pays you thirty-five dollars a day to tell him to work faster!

What he's actually doing is selling his labor, and yes, he's getting less in exchange for his labor than his labor is worth to the person he's selling it to, which is to be expected, as no one would ever pay more for something than it's worth to them.

He does sells his labor despite it being worth more than the money he's getting, because one can't buy things directly for labor. If labor is all you have, then you need to exchange it for money, and then exchange the money for the things you want.

If you have some form of capital, you have more options available to you, and the more you have, the greater your options.

The significant downside to this system is that it's unfair. Someone born with a lot of capital starts out with more options that someone born with little or none, which seems inherently unfair.

The significant upside to this system is that it exploits self-interest to maximize work. Everyone has self-interest. Every one wants more than they have. If the only opportunity to acquire more is to work more, and if working more consistently lets one acquire more, then there is a natural incentive to work, and no one has to devise a system to make sure everyone is working enough and everyone is getting enough.

>shipping union decides they would rather stay home and jack-off instead of shipping rare earth metals to the UK

>cell-phone manufacturing union in the UK can't make cell phones without rare earth metals

>no more cell phones for Bongs

Putting plebs in charge of everything, and constantly appealing to the lowest common denominator would likely lead to primitivism.

see: Detroit, Haiti, etc.