Give me one reason why house arrest wasn't the best option to keep things under control

Give me one reason why house arrest wasn't the best option to keep things under control.

Captain America Civil War

It was

This.

Black Widow was the rightest character

>Tony was right about the Accords, Steve was right about Bucky
correct

because you are taking away peoples rights even though they have gone out of their way to save the planet.

Wanda helped create Ultron, but she also helped stopped him, so she deserves to get off scot-free?

Just like that? Zero punishment, accountability, reprimands?

Doesn't mean that he has to act like a terrorist about the whole thing.

''Ant-man, Hawkeye, I know that you want to live with your families and shit, but how about being criminals for the rest of your lives?''

>because you are taking away peoples rights even though they have gone out of their way to save the planet.
Thats the argument team steve makes. The problem is that this is morally the right way of thinking but it's not the best option for keeping things under control. being morally right and doing the best thing to keep things under control is the divide on the whole movie

>, Steve was right about Bucky
And everything could had been solved if steve recorded a video calling bucky to surrender or steve arresting bucky and not leaving his side.

Whatever happened to her visions? How about giving Tony and Cap the same vision so they solve things?

Whedon gave her too many varied powers. Russos scaled her back.

Confining her to the Avengers compound only creates a future issue where she acts out. The smarter option would have been to have Vision be her caretaker, allowing her to leave under his supervision

>Just like that? Zero punishment, accountability, reprimands?

She's dedicating her life to saving lives with her powers.Better use of them there than to have them waste away in a prison. Also, we talk about accountability and reprimands and Stark was a war lord. She was a product of that.

I get things need to be kept under control but how is some incompetent government gonna control people that have saved their asses twice? Oh people have died as an aftermath of them trying to save the world? Let's not forget these governments have taken part in wars they've waged that have also ruined lives.

Because you shouldn't take away someone's rights because people are afraid of them. If someone throws a grenade at you, and you throw it out of range as far as you can but people still get hurt - even though they would have originally - how are you at fault?

Ultron was right about one thing - Tony confuses peace with quiet.

>Russos scaled her back.

Hacks, they erase shit instead of writing around it.

She also very recently blew up a lot of people in Nigeria.

Nobody cares if she saved X amount of people on the ground. Her direct actions lead to X amount of people dying in the building.

>Because you shouldn't take away someone's rights

Its not like it was going to be in house arrest for the rest of her life.

Then she goes from being friends with Vision to throwing him throught like 30 floors, all it took was Hawkeye telling her a couple of things.

Tony was a 100% right about her being dangerous.

>she blew up
Crossbones blew up*
Stop with this bullshit

This. It's not like she's under house arrest because she used her powers for herself, for selfish reasons. She literally has dedicated her life to helping people. Her life is community service.

They actually considered Abomination above Hulk to join the Avengers.

According to the MCU comics.

You're brainwashing two people with conflicting ideologies to stop fighting? Any compromise reached would have one side unhappy. How solid a foundation is an agreement reached under the influence?

>her direct influence
Learn to read.

Wasn't her it was Crossbones going suicide bomb.

If I throw a grenade at you in a crowd of people and you throw it as far as you can, and people still get hurt, did you kill those people or did I?

ALL OF THE AVENGERS ARE DANGEROUS! A gun is dangerous. A pencil is dangerous. It's about how you use what you have, and yes she did that to Vision because she knew he could take it. The dude is covered in Vibranium. She did what she could to buy him time, and I bet he didn't feel a thing.

Her inaction would've lead to as many people being blown up, I don't get what you are trying to say friendo.

"Hey you tried to stop this suicide bomber but you failed, it's your fault that he blew up!"

Commit sudoku

You chose to throw the grenade.

>people died because of you saved the day and countless other lives
>we saved the day thou
>but a small amount of people died
This bugged me everytime they brought up the casualties.

Are the families of the dead just supposed to be happy that the day is saved?

And who should be punished in that situation?

So what you are saying is that Scarlet Witch is innocent?

I think the problem was no one gave much care that those people died.

No they can be mad all they want but don't blame the people that stopped the terrorists stealing a bio-hazardous material to kill even more people with.

Did the news reports say if the public blamed Wanda for not throwing Crossbones further away?

If so, what happens if she encounters an angry mob outside the compound?

The original person started the incident and you did reduce the total amount of human suffering. But your direct actions did result in some people getting hurt, you would need to be held accountable for that. I'm not a judge, I wouldn't know what specific punishment to prescribe. But to allow you to continue chucking grenades unhindered isn't alright.

That's fair but they don't intend to put those people in danger, it's just bullshit to have the whole argument people died well your saving even more. I know nobody likes the idea but the lives of the many.

Riots

Some people on this thread are either trolling or have no concept of what civil rights are.
You don't declare a person that is a POTENTIAL threat as guilty of the crimes they could POSSIBLY commit, because there is literally nobody on Earth that isn't potentially a threat somehow.
When you use that slippery slope logic to justify taking away someone's freedoms all you've done is justify to yourself that there be no guaranteed freedoms at all, for anybody.
That is not how you defend anything.
Cap's not the only person who believes in the values America has promised to stand for.

If that's the fucking case why is Tony walking about?

Who already made up their mind on the Accords before even discussing it with the team?

Government wanted to turn her into a weapon, and because she wasn't a U.S. and Sokovia not giving a fuck about her, they probably would've gotten away with it. You saw they already had power dampeners ready for her.

Look at it this way, Tony didn't put her under house arrest, put her next to Vision. There's no fucking way the government is going to try and fuck with both of them.

That's a shit opinion.
If your actions put less people in danger than doing nothing than you shouldn't get punished for it.

So do the avengers consist of just Tony and the vision now?
There's no way Tony would put Peter in danger against a bigger threat.

Am I saying you get thrown in the Raft for life with no chance of bail?

I'm saying if you do something and the side effect of that something results in people getting hurt, you need to answer for that in SOME WAY.

HOW IS THAT an unreasonable opinion?

And Rhodey with his robot legs

She was guilty of crimes during Age of Ultron.

Would have loved it if that logic got thrown back in Ross' face.

>Guess that means America will never go to war with anyone ever again.
>War is necessary sometimes.
>Yeah but civilians get killed in the crossfire, as a result of missed or wrong targets, and there's friendly fire. Clearly the American military can't be trusted to act anywhere without Avengers oversight.

Why would you punish the people who saved the day because there was collateral damage? All there actions saved far more people and you want to punish them cause some ass hole blew them self up?

To be fair ultron was 100% the avengers fault and alot of people died from that.

>Wanda helped create Ultron
Letting Tony inevitably fuck himself over is hardly "helping create ultron"
Ultron existed because as soon as tony got his hands on the scepter, he picked it apart, and tried to use it as a fucking weapon.

Tony actually DID make Ultron, but also helped stop him. Why isn't he under house arrest?

first off, the moral implications of fucking with people's minds is why she didn't in Civil War.
secondly, she doesn't chose what they see. She just induces an emotional vision. In AoU she just pulled people's fears out.
She can't create an imaginary scenario and then make everyone see it.

This was referenced in one of the MCU one-shots.

The 1% get away with everything

user, did you see the size of that explosion? Did you see how crowded the area was on the ground?
A dozen people died when she sent Crossbones in the area. MANY more would've died if she didn't move the explosion, including many of the Avengers.

He's the one making the decisions, and he's the world's biggest hypocrite.

Because Tony went behind her back about it instead of talking to her about it calmly.

A dozen Wakandans died. They didn't specific how many others.

Tony's an asshole causing alot of the problems recently and I was upset he kinda got of easy at the end of this movie.

They said 11 people died, total.

Tony was the one with the law on his side and *Steve* doesn't kill his friends. That was the best possible punishment.

Tony was right about the idea, the execution is where he fucked up. That and trusting Ross, ever

>Nigeria: mass death in military detention
Submitted by Jurist on Thu, 05/12/2016 - 17:29Africa Theater Boko Haram Nigeria
Nearly 150 individuals, including 11 children, have died this year in Nigeria's military detention barracks, Amnesty International (AI) reported May 11. According to the report, the Giwa detention barracks in Maiduguri holds around 1,200 people, many of whom were arbitrarily detained and are being held without evidence. The detainees are allegedly housed in dirty, overcrowded cells and often face with starvation and dehydration. AI claims the overcrowding is "a consequence of a system of arbitrary mass arrest and detention" in the government's fight against Boko Haram. Netsanet Belay, AI's research and advocacy director for Africa, called for an immediate closure of the Giwa barracks. Nigeria's military spokesman Rabe Abubakar rebutted the report, stating that Nigeria has made improvements to the barracks, and the reported conditions are overstated.


kek

The only ones involved in creating Ultron were Tony, Bruce and Wanda

It wasnt Wandas fault. At no point in any part of the MCU is she a "weapon of mass destruction"
Being honest, her blaming was the weakest part of the movie. It just didnt make sense and I felt it was only used to paint Stark as an asshole.

It's not the execution, when there's rules like that in place the decisions are out of the Avenger's hands altogether, it wouldn't even matter if Tony was acting like a saint insteed of an asshat because Bucky wasn't going to be getting a trial, remember?

Yeah they did, Cap went into the blown up building to pull survivors out

Actually, Wanda only seemed to be able to give people psychic hallucinations at close ranges, almost touching in fact.
When fighting her teammates they'd know not to get that close

You know what's funny?
People are all like "if she can drop Vision through thirty floors of concrete why doesn't she do more shit like that", when all that shows is that they don't read comic books at all.

She took control of Vision's body and activated his density-shifting power to make him hyper massed-out (which is why he was glowing the characteristic orange color of his gem rather then the scarlet of her telekinesis), basically turning his own powers against him temporarily.
She knew he wouldn't be hurt because the thing she did to remove him also made him invulnerable, so she KNEW all she was doing was temporarily removing him from the area.

I think a greater problem is that the guy who seems to be in direct control of the process isn't ACTUALLY the United Nations but is Thunderbolt Fucking Ross, who is easily the LEAST objective person on the entire planet when it comes to superbeings as well as hugely judgement-impaired and created a supervillain himself through negligence and not caring about the consequences of what he did.

At NO point while giving orders to the Avengers does he go through the United Nations Security Council or even pretend to go about making calls to them. He just gives orders.

Superheros fighting interdimensional/galactic threats and ultra terrorism should be held to higher standards than the governments imposing those standards while holding themselves exempt.

Fuck you.

>avengers meet with a colonel
>it's motherfucking Ross
>wtf is this asshole doing here?
>why are they even entertaining an audience with this colossal fuck
>suddenly Black Widow is on board

FUCK YOU

Stark didn't actually blame her for anything (he doesn't even show any actual animosity to her at any point on the movie), it was just that everyone ELSE did and Stark was trying to keep everyone else from freaking out.

It was basically a hysteria brought on by an accident and people desperately needing somewhat to blame and be held responsible who wasn't already dead.
People are irresponsible asshats when they're scared and shocked, and history has shown an unfathomable number of times that when they want to blame someone they will FIND someone to blame even if it wasn't their fault.

When people get like that they don't want justice, because justice is hard, complicated, long-process, and not immediately satisfying to most, but stringing up a single person and saying it's all their fault IS satisfying because it helps them thing the problem is immediately solved forever.

Why did she throw him into a building? Also her mind control thing seems too op to use ever again

Because she needed Vision to move.

I think Widow was only onboard because she knew it was going to happen anyway and she DIDN'T want Ross to have full control of the process.
Widow may not be the smartest, but she's always that fastest on the uptake when it comes to identifying problems of a political nature because that's basically been her job for some time now.

She KNEW one way or another people we going to make demands and that the alternative was to fight the entire world. She adapted to changing situations because that's kinda what she does.

This. How no one pointed out what an asshat he is in universe and how hypocrital it is that he of all people says they should be accountable for their actions when he wasn't after the whole Abomination debacle.

She didn't. Watch the movie again.
She threw him LITERALLY straight up, in a panicked moment, but the blast explosion was larger then she thought.

She basically did the superpowered equivalent of throwing herself on a grenade when it landed only discover that the grenade was too big for her body to actually dampen the blast.

When you commit crimes, you don't have the right to not be arrested.

You gotta wonder how he even got to be Secretary of Defense in the first place.

>"Who can we trust? Seems like every fucking body else is HYDRA and the only guys we DO trust have zero experience at superhuman stuff which is the big issue right now."
>"I guess there's Ross? He's got four stars and was in charge of that shitty Pentagon program that didn't amount to much."
>"Is Ross ACTUALLY the best we got?"
>"No, the best we got turned out to be an agent of HYDRA. Ross is a fucking dinosaur, but he's not HYDRA."
>"Ugh. I guess he gets the job."

Widow, Tony, and Vision are the folks who think ten moves ahead, and what they see coming if this plays out wrong scares them.
Superficially, it's Steve who seems to be letting emotion cloud his judgement but in reality he's the one ignoring emotion and acting on principle.
And Steve can only do that because he's the guy who is willing to and has already died for those principles.

House arrest without telling her about it was a horrific error. It shows a complete lack of trust and generated the exact rebellion Tony was trying to avoid.

Ross isn't in control. It was specifically said that the Avengers would answer to the UN.

The last Secretary of Defense was Robert Redford. Remember who he worked for?
When people make a mistake they tend to run screaming in the opposite direction even if the farthest directon from a mistake is an equally stupid plan.

We're just shit at moderation as a species I guess.

Of course you think that. You're not too big to fail.

Tony looks ten moves in the future but acts without telling people the first five moves.

Which would be okay except we see no evidence of that.
When he imprisons the rogue Avengers and tells Tony that Steve is full of shit, he DOESN'T call the UN Security Council even though it's theoretically not his call. He just ignores him and there's no consequences for his action at all.
Ross is basically MCU's version of Gyrich during the 70's, only instead of the US government being the obstinate and obstructive dickhead it's the UN....at least in theory because he never seems to call them.

>Because you shouldn't take away someone's rights because people are afraid of them.

See:
Wanda would have been thrown in African prison if she didn't have guys like Tony pulling strings.

>Widow, Tony, and Vision are the folks who think ten moves ahead, and what they see coming if this plays out wrong scares them.
Nope. That's not it.

Widow signed because she knows she can always disappear later if she doesn't like what the Accords want her to do. Visio signed because his policy is to act non-threatening which means he will sign ANYTHING that humans tell him to sign. And even TONY said that he only signed because he intend to send lawyers to change the rules later, and that the Accords as it currently is, is useless and unworkable. None of these three actually truly think the Accords, the thick book, was actually suppose to be good for anybody. The only person who thinks that is Warmachine, who is a current government employee who doesn't work independently anyway.

The Accords is KNOWN to be a half-baked and non-0functioning set of rules. This is why Ross took control of the entire thing at the end, because the UN is too weak and the American Secretary of State ended up able to steal political power.

>It wasnt Wandas fault. At no point in any part of the MCU is she a "weapon of mass destruction"
Yeah, that city in South Africa just destroyed itself.

That's actually a truth in political theory: it's the reason the U.S. tends to swing from conservative and liberal presidencies every decade. The House and Senate do the same on different timetables.

Because it was against her will.
Instead of "Wanda, we think it might be best if you laid low for a bit until this blows over. We know we can't keep you here, but know that we just want you to be safe", it was "Vision is here to keep you in your room until Iron Man says you're allowed to join the outside world."

Because he's cooperating with the Accords.

Who are all Avengers.

Cap referred to what they're doing as a job. So my question remains who in the hell is paying them?

Tony.

You said it was 100% The Avengers fault, there are more Avengers to account for who weren't involved with making Ultron...

Because Stan Lee said so.

Seriously, Captain America was portrayed as an unbearable cunt with zero ability to reason or think ahead.

Firstly, I wasn't the user who said that.

Secondly, saying "Ultron was 100% the Avengers fault" is correct. Ultron was not caused by the entire Avengers team, but he was still entirely caused by the Avengers.