Who's the better filmmaker?

Who's the better filmmaker?

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Von Trier, obviously, but I really like Refn too.

Why is it obvious? Articulate.

Refn and Von Trier are everything that is wrong with modern cinema.

They're among the very few directors doing it right.

Von Trier's vision is much more original and nuanced, and he's just plain more talented. Refn is kind of working with less talent (but still a considerable amount), probably a case of autism, but despite some limitations manages to hammer out interesting, admirable kino (and even makes the vague autism kind of work for the film. Von Trier, as it happens, is in a way working with very serious depression on the other hand).

Both are coming from a kind of apolitical, amoral aestheticism and dark romanticism. I just think the way Von Trier explores that is more fascinating.

I couldn't finish Drive or Dogtown. They were both fucking awful.

I listened to a conversation/interview between Refn and Gaspar Noe. Refn was out of his element, not a very confident artist, and it shows.

Yeah, I was going to mention, Refn is clearly doing a crude imitation of Noe. Noe is a genuine visionary (as dark as he is, even), whereas Refn is an example of a somewhat lesser artist giving it his best shot and coming out with something respectable and cool enough. I suppose while I prefer Noe, I am quite fond of Refn for actually trying this hard to make something strange and interesting when damn near everyone else in the world don't anymore.

you mispelled "Villeneuve and PTA"

Von Trier by far. I love Refn but I don't think his movies have anything interesting to say, they're just exercises in style.

Do von Trier's films have anything interesting to say? Such as?

Well, for example, Manderlay is a deconstruction of white guilt and the "white savior" archetype. It also portrays the black slave characters as morally reprehensible, manipulative, and sneaky.

Von Trier is actually original and had his breathtaking moments, he also doesn't rely on videogame audiences to cash in. A genuine filmmaker.

Enter the void and love are both unwatchable garbage for retards and acid dropping teenagers

Not guy you're replying to, but what his films are "saying" isn't something that can be summed up in a sentence, or even in words at all, probably.

Great visual work isn't explicable, it 'operates' on another level... bespeaks itself worldlessly, and what is being translated across in Von Trier's work is much richer than Refn's.

Lmao

Not an argument

Don't need one youre an imbecile

look at the kind of films each one makes

Von Trier has made some ridiculous bullshit but he also has made stuff like Breaking the Waves and Melancholia. Let me know when Refn makes a film as mature as either of those

>couldn't finish Drive

What a worthless, uninspired response. Refn is definitely your preferred choice.

At Refn is honest about making trash

how is this even an argument
one is a critically acclaimed director, the other one is a hack Sup Forumstards adore

One likes interesting visuals, the other likes to pander to elitist fags by making films about unlikable pieces of shit.

>not a very confident artist, and it shows
W-what does that even mean? Art isn't science, it's not backed by facts, you can't be confident about it.

They're both hacks, but Von Trier is the less talented AND more pretentious of the two.

>by making films about unlikable pieces of shit.
how is that a problem? LVT's films are quite fun.

I don't know luch about Van Trier's persona, but I know Refn tries very hard and is a brillant craftsman

John Carpenter.

Manderlay is about US interventionism in the middle east and the attempt to create a democratic state despite the objections of the inhabitants

>despite the objections of the inhabitants
what? they didn't object to her at all. they wanted her to lead them.

This could also be because the cult of the artist visionary is a lot more pronounced in France, than it is in Denmark, which is a somewhat self-effacing culture where talking about yourself is considered rude.

The Idiots, my favorite of his, reflects better on trolling and counterculture than any other film I can recall.

she was backed up by gangsters with guns

von trier is a bitter depressed knowitall and refn is the vain douchebag who more than anything else in life wants to be perceived as cool

real human beans both of them

t. Marvelfag

but they were very happy with what she was doing until that sandstorm fucked everything up.

Nymphomaniac for example, showing us that female empowerment outside of feminism exists in a genuine left-hand path journey towards enlightenment.

I didn't enjoy Love either but your opinion is wrong.

t. Korinefag

von trier is a meme who makes unwatchable garbage

refn is a meme who makes watchable garbage

refn wins

Do you have a very short attention span or what?

Well, he prefers Refn; so, yeah, he probably does have a short attention span.

and proud of it

Pusher

>crime drama
"no"

great post

Pusher II especially is about a lot more than that. It's about identity, growing up and breaking out of destructive family patterns, far more than it's about crime.

I really enjoyed Spring Breakers but I don't know why - I just can't put my finger on it.
Can you explain the appeal of Korine to me?

Not him but if that's all you see in Pusher these kinds of films are not for you. It's genius if you watch it as a study of male modes of communication - just as Neon Demon is when watched as a study of arhetypal ways in which we react to female beauty, with every character representing a different approach. It's not a meme when people describe Refn as an exemplary masculine film maker. Von Trier on the other hand handles the female condition exceptionally well.

I was being serious. Lars Von Trier's films can be called many things but the word "unwatchable" demands justification.

>somebody makes a great post that is not easy to respond to without shitposting
>thread dies

Autismo ofc

Korine is an honest, smart, spiritual filmmaker. He has made some of the most touching, transcendent and beautiful films in the history of cinema.

It's really sad how "korinefag" is considered an insult by some people who praise empty hacks like those two directors I named.

>Not guy you're replying to, but what his films are "saying" isn't something that can be summed up in a sentence, or even in words at all, probably.
"women are bad, religion is bad and i am an asshole"
there you are

If you think Lars Von Trier despises women you missed the point entirely.

Pls explain

it's a tie

Just watch Nymphomaniac. The main character is not only a pure unadulterated woman in the most negative way, illogical, materialistic, ambiguous and driven by her hunger for sex, she is also a stand-in for Von Trier himself who admires these qualities. If anything, it is the way women are made to be, the cultural woman, that is negatively portrayed.

>women are portrayed as root of all evil
>a stand in for Trier himself

I don't think Von Trier's concept of evil is quite the same as yours.

Friendly reminder of the time when Refn BTFO'd Von Tryhard
youtu.be/SOT0jMB_GL8?t=37m

Starts at 37min.

what a fucking autist

he actually is, but somehow the course of his life and his extreme intelligence has channeled the autism into something beautiful, and the non-autists in his life see that and allow for him to be successful
youtube.com/watch?v=5Se4wv9tz58

People really like Melancholia? The movie is overrated as fuck, the only part I felt bad was when Dunst was so depressed that she couldn't even take a bath, but the ending of the world thing and the metaphor itself were vague and not good at all.

vague?

did you see the size of that thing?

>life is meaningless and inevitably ends in death so that makes me depressed

t. did not watch it, going by the posters and trailer alone

Any recommendations from Von Triers filmography?
So far I have watched
>Nymphomaniac
>Melancholia
>Anntichrist

Dogville, Manderlay, Breaking the Waves, Dancing in the Dark, The Idiots

Gogogogogo

Ok thanks

Refn. 100%

If Trier is so good then why has he never made a movie where a character rubs gold lotion on my waifu's (lewd) neck for 3 minutes?

Checkmate trierplebs

I've seen more Von Trier movies but enjoyed Refn more

The Idiots is trollkino

Dancer in the Dark, The Idiots, The Boss of it All was interesting because of how it was filmed

Refn hasn't made anything half as interesting as The Kingdom 2bh

Europa is an amazing debut, so distinctive from the rest of his work