I just saw Civil War. Did I completely misunderstand this character...

I just saw Civil War. Did I completely misunderstand this character? I thought he was just a normal dude with no special skills or anything, but he somehow manipulates everyone and causes things to happen that he couldn't possibly control. Am I wrong? And didn't Tony know that Bucky was mind controlled during the assassination?

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>I thought he was just a normal dude with no special skills or anything
He was a former special forces operative.

He was a part of a Sokovian death squad before Age of Ultron and (if I recall correctly) is tied to the Sokovian royal bloodline. Him referring to Sokovia as a failed state even before AoS was interesting.

I hope he returns as a Dr. Doom type character, since Sokovia could very well be the MCU's Latveria onwards.

yeah tony is just fucking retarded

>And didn't Tony know that Bucky was mind controlled during the assassination?
People tend to be less rational when it comes to the bludgeoned execution of their parents.

He was ex-Sokovian special forces, so he had skills, intel, and resources that were useful in accomplishing his plan.

And Tony knew, it was a heat of the moment type of thing where the revelation on top of all the stress and parental issues just boiled over and caused him to momentary snap in boiled rage.

I don't know, man. As far as excuses go, "I was mind controlled by Nazi scientists" is a pretty good one.

Thas was pretty weak, Tony even says outloud ''his plan was to make us fight each other''

His special power is shitty writing

It's not really Civil War without the heroes talking their hourly stupid pills.

>And didn't Tony know that Bucky was mind controlled during the assassination?

This is such a bewildering complaint and the fact that it keeps popping on up Sup Forums and Sup Forums suggests to me that both places are full of people who are either autistic or who have bad relationships with their parents.

He didn't care that Bucky was mind controlled, all he cared about was that he just watched his mother being murdered by the man standing next to him. His actions following that were purely emotional, not rational.

Zemo was written by Greg Weisman.

And Tony is on his way to becoming a villain so after selling out his friends because of the times he fucked up, he decided to not care about the villain mastermind and tried to kill his allies instead. And we're not even talking a minor scuffle of rage. Tony spent the rest of that movie fighting Bucky and Cap as Zemo almost got away.

>he somehow manipulates everyone and causes things to happen that he couldn't possibly control
he spent years studying the avengers to figure out the perfect carrots and sticks to manipulate them

>Am I wrong?

uh no

and he pretty much achieved what he wanted to, or, what he could achieve to his extent, which mainly amounted to letting the superheroes realize the truth about themselves, and how much ass they suck in terms of not giving a fuck about collateral damage and/ or that the humongous conflicts that they fight in is really because of their own fault

but did his plan fail?

>I was mind controlled by Nazi scientists
Hydra scientists.

>tfw Zemo is in the custody of "Thunderbolt" Ross

>years
He spent a single year. He even said so in the movie.

So what was the "mission report" exactly? The video of Bucky killing the Starks and taking the serum? Because I find it odd that it wasn't in the HYDRA file dump in the first place.

Well, he's not just "some guy" he was part of some Sokovian Death Squad. Either way, I find the fact that he's just one man to be very compelling as a story.

He also didn't plot out for every single thing to happen. He adapted the plan as the situation developed and changed.

>And didn't Tony know that Bucky was mind controlled during the assassination?

They literally have this in dialogue

Something along the lines of

>That wasn't him, Tony. It was HYDRA.
>I don't care. He killed my Mom

If you have just watched your own parents very brutally murdered by a man that is already a very controversial subject that you've been fighting to bring into justice, especially after all the emotional torment Tony has gone through leading up to and during the film, you might just snap like he did. It was an emotional outburst.

It's not massively complicated.

Video was never digitized, so he needed to track down the tape itself.

So the Winter Soldier program(outside of Bucky) was considered a failure right?

To be fair, even though it's a short amount of time, he did have virtually all the available information from Black Widow's SHIELD leak

This.
It is a point that most people didn't understand: the only copy of that video is in the bunker, so Zemo needed Tony to be there to see it( Steve and Bucky also being there was just a bonus)

Im excited to see his tranformation

Didn't T'Challa take him back to Wakanada because he murdered their former king?
>tfw Zemo causes a fracture in Wakanada's people that causes them to question and even oppose T'Challa, letting Zemo escape

>Sokovia could very well be the MCU's Latveria onwards.
I think that might be Marvel's plan should they get the film rights back

You're all missing the point of the question: how didn't Tony know he was mind controlled before the parents video? Everyone involved in TWS knows including Black Widow who was on Tony's team.

I think at that point Stark just didn't care, to him Bucky is responsible for turning cap into a criminal, splitting up the Avengers and now he has ro watch him beat his father to death and then choke the life out of his mother? Stark isn't that great at keeping his emotions in check.

No Zemo is currently charged by several different nations, hell he may be moved to The Raft at some point. Also T'Challa may have handed him over to the U.N because of his shift from vengeance to justice. His people would have asked for blood

All it takes is one bad dayto reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy.

Wrong universe.

>No Zemo is currently charged by several different nations, hell he may be moved to The Raft at some point
I could see him working Ross into forming the Thunderbolts team, all the while figuring out how to escape, and what better way then to be welcomed out by a high ranking military officer? I'd be okay with this.
> Also T'Challa may have handed him over to the U.N because of his shift from vengeance to justice. His people would have asked for blood
I really hope that this makes his people sort of turn their back on him in his movie, I really want to see him trying to hold his kingdom togeather while trying to live up to being King and the Panther

If people on Sup Forums understood how emotions worked, there would be no /r9k/.

Why would he think that?

In Cap 2 that movie is about finding bucky and breaking him away from his controllers. However he escapes before anyone can give a medical check up.

From an impartial standpoint, Bucky by time of 3 seems to be in hidding but potentially deranged from his past experiences. Due to the downfall of Hydra and their active hunts, they would have no reason to suspect him being captured and reprogrammed again.

What I find interesting is how Steve willfully denied the fact Bucky killed Tony's Dad. During the whole underground Bunker bit in 2, it was painfully obvious that the computer was alluding to Bucky as killing Howard.

This right here

Call me stupid, but how did Cap find out it was Bucky who killed the Starks?

Likely in the file BW gives him at the end of WS. But he claims not to have known that it was Bucky, just that Hydra had done it.

He almost certainly suspected.

Arnim Zola showed him in WS.

The folder Natasha left Steve at the end of the last movie. Also Zola's speech showed the Winter Soldier with the article about Howard.
Could've been lying, given the way Tony thought he was full of shit and pressed him.

It has nothing to do with rationality

This is something I think a lot of people are missing. Imagine you lost your parents in an accident suddenly and it messed you up for a long time because of the circumstances when you last spoke to them, leaving you feeling guilty and remorseful.

Now imagine you watched a video showing it wasn't an accident, it was a murder. A brutal murder. You watched someone beat your father's head in, and snap your mother's neck.

And that guy is now standing right next to you.

What I'm wondering is why HYDRA didn't give him a mask for that mission like they would always do, or why he didn't have gloves or use his metal arm to avoid leaving fingerprints.

Think we'll ever get this, or was the bunker computer the closest we're getting?

>snap your mum's neck
That wouldn't have been as bad, instead Bucky just clamped that metal fist around her throat and choked her to death. That's fucked.

Its not hard to write him back in, its whether Marvel wants to use him again. Personally I would love to see him again, maybe even Zemo recovers his mind. After all, I find it hard to believe that Zola would throw his life away so easily after such much effort preserving it. He had to of backed up or upgraded at some point

He kept adapting his plan, his whole thing was trying to get to the 5 super soldiers and the data archive in the Winter Soldier Stronghold.

The fact that Stark came to him was a fortunate coincidence, since he was probably going to use that tape to make Stark hate on Bucky.

>Think we'll ever get this, or was the bunker computer the closest we're getting?
They thought about having him climb out of the rubble like that, but decided against it as the film wasn't about him. He clearly isn't dead and must have been updated to modern computer hardware by now.

He didn't even use his metal arm to choke her.

Pretty sure he broke her neck. The scene was over far too quickly, and it wouldn't have looked like an accident with hand shaped bruises on her neck.

>yfw Zola is the one to break Zemo out

Why would he? Zemo hates HYDRA just as much as he hates the Avengers

>>yfw Zola is the one to break Zemo out
I could see Zola and Zemo treat each other as intellectual equals. Or even have Zola under-estimating Zemo and treat him like a meathead, and causing Zemo to resent hiim.

>Why would he? Zemo hates HYDRA just as much as he hates the Avengers
Zemo is an opportunist. He would work with anyone if you give him a good reason to.

He could use Zola of course, or perhaps Zola ditches HYDRA considering its on its last legs

Tony literally screams in Caps face "I DONT CARE HE KILLED MY MOM", when Cap tells him it was Hydra.

Zemo is in the custody of the German goverment at the end of the movie, in the same place where they had Bucky.

Nah. Once they get back the F4 rights, they do a movie where the plot is that neighboring Latveria has invaded Sokovia covertly, Russia/Ukraine style, in order to take it over and "improve" it.

Zola definitely seems like an opportunist. He only joined up with Hydra because Red Skull would have zapped him otherwise, and his crowning achievement working for SHIELD/HYDRA was covering his own ass with a brain backup.

If he came back, the most involvement with Hydra he'd take would be rebuilding it with himself as leader, or fucking off to South America to do evil stuff without Avenger interference.

It'd be pretty funny if he brought Hydra back with himself as the boss only for Cosmic Red Skull to come back and put the little bitch in his place.

"Cap was right" image vector when?

I need a Captain America edit of this all about "Muh Buck"

When you have an awful day regretting world splitting decisions that involve your ineptitude, the deaths of innocents, the degradation of all of your work and family and seeing your parents on tape brutally getting their faces smashed in and choked to death then I don't think that's pretty weak at all.

Stark is prone to emotional outrage and this was the final logical outcome for him.

You don't think straight when you see all that shit in front of you. You just don't give a fuck. Remember this is the same type of character that drinks himself into a stupor when he's prone to depression.

God this reeks of a thunderbolts setup if Suicide squad does well.

You just know Disney is sitting on the button waiting to see if people like it.

Everything he needs to be full on Zemo is there. He just needs to oust all the emo-ness out and I damn well hope he brings in The Thunderbolts with Moonstone and Songbird in the future.

Zemo is the closest thing to Doom they have and not as much of a Gary Stu either.

I'm no fanboy, but I honestly don't think Disney cares of Suicide Squad does well. If they want a Thunderbolts movie they'll do it anyways. Think, Disney/Marvel have been taking risks on all of these other movies, and have remained fairly successful in doing so.

youtube.com/watch?v=Y05e_HHw-f8

>I thought he was just a normal dude with no special skills or anything

He had experience and patience. A man can do anything if he has these things.

There is no way in hell Fan4stic2 is still a thing. It would be a nightmare to be involved in and Michel B just joined Black Panther

Who the fuck would even direct it?
Singer?

Yeah, it's never getting made. Even the actors have publicly shit on it at this point. 0% chance of a sequel.

I'd say there's about a 90% chance that Marvel gets the rights back in some capacity in the next few years, if they're not already negotiating it. (Reserving a 10% chance that Fox will just reboot it out of spite in 8 years or so)

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Fox has already pushed for a Sony Spider-Man deal, but Marvel turned them down, knowing they can hold off for a full rights purchase. I mean, Sony fucked up with Spidey, but it was still a huge property. Fantastic Four is next to worthless at this point.

He was boring as fuck. Where was the purple mask??

He's a master ruseman.
That's his superpower.

Heres the thing, FOX was hesitant to make a deal because of the embarrassment of losing Daredevil (which Marvel did wonders for) and getting fucked over like Sony did with the Spider Man franchise, because despite what Sony tries to spin theyre literally collecting a paycheck and have zero input. Now fast forward to today, FOX is scrapping by with XMen and their only marketable superhero is Deadpool, an IP they didnt even want. They can either fork over the F4 rights so they can devote more effort into the other franchise, or they can eat the shit sandwich so Marvel cant flip F4 like Daredevil. However something needs to me in the works for that to happen, and I dont see FOX pouring more money into the Trankwreck

This. It was simply rage.

>getting fucked over like Sony did with the Spider Man franchise, because despite what Sony tries to spin theyre literally collecting a paycheck and have zero input.
>muh input
Yeah, they got real fucked by all that easy money

I meant in the long run. Sure its easy money, but Marvel is raking in the majority. Spider Man is the golden goose of Marvel Comics more or less, and Sony could have made a mint

>normal dude with no special skills
>didn't Tony know that Bucky was mind controlled during the assassination
Did you pass out at Zemo's background and "I don't care. He killed my mom."?

he released the picture of the dead scientist in his hotel room to lure tony to the same place that cap was going

I thought it made perfect sense? am I missing something

Zemo is cute.CUTE

Yeah, I'd be pissed, and I'd.direct that anger at the Nazi scientists who ordered their murder and maybe the asshole who tried to manipulated with their murder.

mfw

Howd they get cameras right where Bucky attacked the Starks?

This. I'm not saying what Tony did was justified, but I'd likely have the same reaction if I watched a video of the guy I'm standing next to kill my parents

And his best friend got crippled for life too, remember.

All in all, wouldn't be surprised if Tony drives back into alcoholism.

yeah he used his dick instead :^)

I'm not going to lie to myself like most anons do, if I was in Iron Man's shoes I would have done the exact same thing. Winter Soldier's ass would be mine and Captain America trying to protect Bucky would piss me off even more. I wouldn't care if he was mind controlled, since I can't kill the ones who made the order, killing the one who brutally ended their lives would be just as good.

I assume it's a roadside camera? The other camera views are for the audience.

He used his normal arm to choke her.

This. Tony isn't in the right trying to kill Bucky, but it's totally understandable and I think that Cap gets that. It's why he writes the letter to Tony after that basically says 'no hard feelings'.

Not once I pour acid all over his face.

Tony is in reality very weak minded.

Not really.

There's not many people who wouldn't act irrationally in the face of seeing their mother and father being murdered in front of them. Gets a lot of shit pumping, ya know?

He's obviously on that flash drive that Widow plugged in.

Dude, this guy just saw his parents' true reasons why they are dead and the one that caused it is a few inches from him.

That's what I am thinking too, these guys don't really have any deep connections with anyone, so they can't understand.

Dude, Zemo is in that restraint chair at the end of the film, Ross is interrogating him.

What are Russian webs saying about this movie?

He could have just emailed Tony the details and let Tony figure out it on his own.

MCU villains tend to be forgettable, but this movie didn't even give you the satisfaction of the defeat of a proper villain. There's a fight, some people are angry and some are sad, and then everyone shrugs and waits for the next movie.

I know the point of the thing is the "civil war", but heroes are hardly heroes if they're just fighting for themselves.

Are we really supposed to believe that this is something adults who are trying to save the world will NEVER be able to get over?

Good Spider-Man, though.

You can't know that unless you're put in the situation.

I hope you never are. Nazi scientists are notoriously difficult to track down

Just rub it in, why don't ya.

>Are we really supposed to believe that this is something adults who are trying to save the world will NEVER be able to get over?

It's less that they'll never get over it and more that, in the eyes of the law, most of those superheroes are fully-fledged criminals now. And prison escapees, most of them. If they're saving the world, they're doing it on the run from now on.

I know. I love how people here don't get something as simple as a gut emotional reaction.
"But that's not logical"
Don't worry guys it'll all make sense when you grow up get hair on your balls and have your first pon Farr.