Cartoons vs Anime

We all know which is better

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Pussy

That Arthur episode has inspired an impressive amount of rage so I think it deserves some credit.

Yes, it's quite obvious.

>Cartoons can be canceled because of the slightest ideological variation from the middle American norm because of the influence on children

>Anime can literally give children seizures and still go on for 20 years

>Cartoons can be canceled because of the slightest ideological variation from the middle American norm because of the influence on children
Give me 5 examples, please.

But I like both.

Neither is better then the other

...

>>Anime can literally give children seizures and still go on for 20 years
They can get cancelled too. Some of my favorite anime gets "wrapped up" too quickly because funding gets pulled away.

Why does Sup Forums like KoTH so goddamn much, it was a terrible boring ass show, with a main character who needed to be severely beaten with a bat.

Off the top of my head, Bobo bo whatever only aired maybe 2episodes in my area and was immediately dropped on a saturday morning program. Literally all saturday morning cartoons since then have stopped airing altogether and it has been a very long 7 years hoping they will come back.

You just answered your own question. We like it ironically.

What is Serial Experiments Lain of Sup Forums ?

Cyberchase.

...

That has nothing to do with western cartoons getting the axe. That's a lack of localization directed at children.

>your network dropped Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo
you poor child, that shit was actually funny

Anime getting cancelled is very rare. The only example I know off the top of my head is the original Gundam. The sponsor pulled out because of creative differences and the show ended prematurely.

Nothing.

KotH is casual as fuck though. We're not exactly talking about a hidden gem here, it was a major Fox sitcom.

>tfw when US is filled with tumblr show creators and reboots
>tfw when Japan made a good show that started out as a webcomic with shitty art
>pic related it's one Punch Man

>Cartoons are filled with [negative connotation]
>But Japan has produced this (one) good thing

Anyone who thinks either cartoons or anime is inherently better than the other probably needs to be slapped

Their production processes and quality are so ridiculously arguable it's not viable to find even so much as a proper grounds of agreement to begin with

Anime dont get cancelled, they simply never get a second season

>anime has a huge variety of genres, but is still 80% percent shit
>cartoons are mostly comedy and lack other genres or fail to evoke any emotion, especially today. but theres still good stuff

So neither are better but I would pick anime over cartoons any day especially if we're talking about recent stuff

>tfw western webcomics will never get an animated show.

Welcome to the butter vs margarine thread, you probably need to be slapped for your post.

Superman already seems a lot more humble than this guy.

Anime is inherently better, though. It has better character design, animation, camera work, cinematography, background art, sound design, music, voice acting and writing and vastly more variety in genres and themes.

...

I like animated action/adventure
Those way too few and far between in cartoons, nevermind that most get cancelled before a proper ending. I'm glad I went back to anime recently, there just not enough variety in cartoons.

The only example of an anime getting cancelled that I know of is that battle programmer thing.

Who even watched King of the Hill anyway? I have a good idea of Seth MacFarlane shows primary demographic, and the simpsons, but what demographic that watched KotH is large enough to keep it running for so long?

How many cartoon genres are there?

Its basically a live action sitcom in animated form

CAD did.

So, they get reruns?

I know exactly what kind of thread this is

>camera work

You what

The rest of what you're saying is exactly what I'm saying: debatable as hell.

If you wanted to argue that anime is inherently better because it pushes insanely for its own standards in production, you'd have a better point.

That should never have happened.

>You what
The imaginary camera through which we look at animation. Where it is positioned and how it is moved.

>The rest of what you're saying is exactly what I'm saying: debatable as hell.
Not at all. All of the things I listed are done better in anime.

Also, we can say as an opposite example that America does live action better than Japan. While Japan has produced many great live action movies and some good TV shows, they still can't compete with America on the whole, especially when it comes to production values.

...there was Axe Cop and We Bare Bears.

First read your sentence and thought you were actually suggesting webcomics all adapted in one show a la House of Mouse or something...the grammar is so confusing for me.

>The imaginary camera through which we look at animation

Oh I know, it's just that when you already listed "animation" I kinda figured that territory came with.

>Not at all. All of the things I listed are done better in anime.

I'll give an example here.

The problem with anime is that it's expensive to make, to the point where working in the industry is basically like serving in a sweatshop. This leads to many, many works that are rushed, unfocused, and so on. You can notice the writing in a large number of anime go down the drain, and problems like these are exactly what back only a relatively few true successes in sales every season, as opposed to the many others that don't quite make it.

Whereas with voice acting you could argue that it's better because everyone is so elite due to struggling through schools and competition to breed the best of the best. This isn't quite the case with its writing in the same medium. Mangaka are not inherently equivalent with good writers, they are just people who need to get their work out there, and editors among others are there to smoothen things out; this can equate to polishing a rock or polishing a turd. The same more or less applies to original anime writers. So to say writing is inherently better in anime, when the writers aren't evidenced to be on another caliber, yet when environment for it is objectively much more harmful, is wrong.

Again, this is something that can go extremely back and forth. Unless you list something a little more concrete, your stance isn't quite going much anywhere.

I also forgot to mention that everything is extremely sensitive to time period too

Back in the 70s you could argue cartoons were easily superior to anime in every regard because Japan was still trying to get out of another economic rut. 80s Japan had the bubble economy and anime was booming. 90s was when that started popping for anime, 2000s was "I can't into digital" period, and current is "I can into digital now but my economic formula is back to more or less garbage". Cartoons had a bunch of decade-eras with largely fluctuating quality too.

It's one thing to argue inherent quality of mediums, but to reference anything outside that as proof is just silly. I doubt it's impossible to make objective analyses on which is better through some hardcore thought but even more I doubt it's a worthwhile thing to do. You'd have to wade through decades of history and information to even begin making a proper measure between the two. They're so different in what they have to offer it's not quite something I believe on anyone when they think they have the answer.

>mfw I found out from the other thread that each episode of Family guy costs 2 million dollars each
ANIME IS BETTER NOW, LET WESTERN ANIMATION BURN

Source?

>we will never get a questionable content show
thank god

Was this thread

Boring

Around 2011 it was estimated that anime costs, on average, $150,000 per episode. American shows at the time cost between $500,000 and $2,000,000.

Even the most modest anime have better production values than American shows, and I don't know about you but I prefer occasional problems (that are usually corrected for the BDs) over consistent lameness.

There are somewhere between 30 and 50 full length shows produced every season, and some of them are bound to be creative and/or commercial failures or have production issues. Some are great successes and unexpected hits. Most are somewhere in the middle.

Do you think it's better to cautiously produce very few shows and hope to keep them on the air for the next hundred years?

Writing is better in anime because anime covers such a huge amount of ground and draws from so many different sources compared to American animation.

In the 70s anime already had shows like Future Boy Conan, Mobile Suit Gundam, Heidi: Girl of the Alps, Devilman and Galaxy Express 999.

>current is "I can into digital now but my economic formula is back to more or less garbage".
A popular belief among people who don't actually watch current anime.

>You'd have to wade through decades of history and information to even begin making a proper measure between the two.
You are overcomplicating and obfuscating the issue. If you compare any of the areas I mentioned during any era except maybe the 60s, anime nearly always comes out on top (and don't forget that many American shows back in the day were actually produced in Japan). American animation fundamentally does not have means to compete because of how much it sabotages itself.

Whoops sorry didn't finish the rest of that post, but your original point was that anime does everything better, so I'm going to stick to writing as my point of contention here, keep things less cluttered than needed. Since you were arguing for inherent quality.

>Writing is better in anime because anime covers such a huge amount of ground and draws from so many different sources compared to American animation.

That makes it more varied, not better. Don't confuse the two.

>Half of the "Themes" are just porn

Anime was a mistake

Yes, the winner is clearly Bandes Dessinées.

>This is what $2,000,000 gets you in America:
> youtube.com/watch?v=4GNPgAQ4SuA

>This is what $150,000 - $300,000 gets you in Japan:
> youtube.com/watch?v=92cesUa9ORc
Where does the money go

How can anyone actually have the balls to post this when this image unironically treats demographic like a genre and when half the themes are infamously sexual

This. They are both shit in their own way

To the overpaid big-name voice actors, I would presume

I'm not treating this as a main part of the argument anymore
but I just wanna throw out there:

>In the 70s anime already had shows like Future Boy Conan, Mobile Suit Gundam, Heidi: Girl of the Alps, Devilman and Galaxy Express 999.

All of these have aged much less graciously than you may like to think.

>A popular belief among people who don't actually watch current anime.

What's even your reasoning behind this?

...

This

>That makes it more varied, not better. Don't confuse the two.
It also makes it better. Anime is more than episodic children's cartoons and adult sitcoms. It covers every genre and almost every kind of story for every target demographic. The stories come from freelance writers, manga artists, light novelists, novelists, game developers and visual novel developers. A ton of different people from different media writing stories about everything under the sun. There's no way American shows can compete with that.

>All of these have aged much less graciously than you may like to think.
Of course they don't look as good as more modern shows, but I wasn't comparing them against anime. Conan has some pretty tight background art though.

>What's even your reasoning behind this?
The better question is: what's your reasoning behind the notion that today's anime is garbage?

I like both of them really. I watch more anime than cartoons because there is more stuff what i like in anime. And yes i enjoy some CGDCT even when Sup Forums hates it.

The only animu I remember watching in my laifu was one about some dudes in a school who fought each other with mini version of themselves and some dude who could feel the pain his mini version feel.
It had like one season and other episode that had nothing to do with the story and then it died and never came back.

That whole paragraph is just repeating the variety statement.

Nothing about what you said assures any of them goes through quality training to be better writers than the bare necessity. I could easily make the counterpoint that because anime is so hefty to create, they make this variety out of a necessity simply to stay alive in the industry, rather than because variety has been well evidenced to be more than just a correlation to a solid script.

Again, do not confuse the two.

>Conan has some pretty tight background art though.

Gotta admit, anime background art always gave me a good hard on.

>The better question is: what's your reasoning behind the notion that today's anime is garbage?

Read the post again bruh, I said economy, not the medium.

We can't go around comparing every single American show against every single anime show, but we can look at the big picture.

American shows: mostly television writers writing an extremely narrow range of programming that's almost entirely episodic.

Anime shows: writers from all disciplines writing in all genres for all audiences about almost everything, usually in serial form.

I wonder which of these is more likely to produce quality writing. I wonder which of the two is going to adapt en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Passage this year.

>I could easily make the counterpoint that because anime is so hefty to create, they make this variety out of a necessity simply to stay alive in the industry, rather than because variety has been well evidenced to be more than just a correlation to a solid script.
Anime is relatively low risk to produce because of the production committee system, and there is no "they" trying to "stay alive." Most anime are adaptations, and adaptations are usually commissioned by the publisher with the studio acting as a contractor. The variety of anime is not a product of some concerted effort.

>Read the post again bruh, I said economy, not the medium.
What is the "economic formula" then and how is it "garbage"?

Dr.Mcninja TAS when?

What a wonderful time today.

How much did Cowboy BeepBoop cost per episode?

Seems pretty quality to me.

>I wonder which of these is more likely to produce quality writing

You really don't understand what subject you're talking here do you.

It doesn't matter. I'm spelling this out for the last time, because you can't seem to get how to move past the big point of division here: writing quality isn't dependent on format and especially not on concept, it's dependent on execution. For the third time, you have stressed variety, not quality.

If you really wanted to cherrypick then I could easily say that Disney has produced many cartoons, and that Disney having the high reputation for quality they do, would be much likelier to hire people with better backgrounds in writing accomplishments than your average anime company. Keep in mind this is just a supposition/example, but still focuses significantly more on the reward for merit rather than hire for need.

If this was a variety argument you wouldn't have any logical opposition from post one, but you took up quality. So stick to it or just drop the argument.

>What is the "economic formula" then and how is it "garbage"?

This is something I'd have to detail in another few posts but generally it boils down to its economy running an unstable amount more on merchandise than something more viable such as revenue, which causes vicious cycles that hurt people both people working for and supporting anime more than should be acceptable.

And before you make the same mistake everyone else I tell this to seems to make, I'm saying it's garbage because it's unhealthy, not because it's unworkable.

I have no idea, but apparently quality and budget don't correlate much if at all. The animation director of One Punch Man said the show was made with an average budget. Having talented and motivated production staff is far more important, and having too much staff probably reduces quality because more things have to be delegated and managed and checked. So it's not like you can just go to the animator store and buy more animators and therefore more quality. One thing that does help is giving the staff more time before the show starts airing, but there's no doubt a lot of factors influencing that.

>writing quality isn't dependent on format and especially not on concept, it's dependent on execution.

Not the guy you were replying to, but you are flat out wrong. If you are a writer and you are restricted o write only what is deemed appropriate for a very young audience, chances are, you won't create a story as good as a writer of equal skill level who doesn't have the same restrictions as you do.

Western cartoons happen to be restricted in ways that japanese animation isn't, hence anime can explore and experiment with genres, topics, themes etc that western cartoons will never touch.

>implying anime 'humor' isn't a warcrime
>implying half the 'genres' aren't just bad porn
>trying to pass off target demographics as an actual genre
Your logic is bad and you should feel bad.

>implying half the 'genres' aren't just bad porn

Yeah but the other half is still far more variety than what western cartoons have to offer.

i like One Piece and Berserk but those are like western shit drawn by japanese men.

It is absolutely the case that anime is far more likely to feature quality writing because of the reasons I just explained to you. Anime draws from manga, novels, light novels, games and visual novels, all of them their own industries and markets with their own internal competition. There are stories in every genre about almost everything for every demographic.

American shows can't even directly compete in most areas because they have nothing with which to compete with, because they are almost nothing but children's cartoons and adult sitcoms.

>If you really wanted to cherrypick then I could easily say that Disney has produced many cartoons, and that Disney having the high reputation for quality they do, would be much likelier to hire people with better backgrounds in writing accomplishments than your average anime company.
We have a concrete understanding of what Disney has actually produced, and it does not stack up against anime.

>This is something I'd have to detail in another few posts but generally it boils down to its economy running an unstable amount more on merchandise than something more viable such as revenue, which causes vicious cycles that hurt people both people working for and supporting anime more than should be acceptable.
The production committee system distributes the financial risk of producing an anime among several companies. Having many different sources of income (discs, rentals, streaming, licensing, source material, music CDs, merchandise, special events, sponsorship deals and collaborations with businesses) is safer than relying on a single source. Producing 12-26 episodes at a time is a relatively small investment.

Seems like a sound system to me.

I live in Texas, pretty close to where Arlen is supposed to be located. I get a lot of the background humor and it's funny to me.

I would imagine a big chunk of family guy's budget goes to music production as well. They really go all out in terms of music on that show.

>implying anime 'humor' isn't a warcrime
Humor is very subjective.

>implying half the 'genres' aren't just bad porn
Anime porn has almost nothing to do with the rest of the anime industry. It's inconsequential and released straight to video. People rarely even talk about it outside of /h/.

>trying to pass off target demographics as an actual genre
Where did I try to do that?

>They really go all out in terms of music on that show.
Going all out on music makes me think of something like this:
youtube.com/watch?v=mjfuXgfDxxU

Not this:
youtube.com/watch?v=FCah4MngQcA

Well i do agree with that japanese humour is pretty bad but there is some good shit there too.

>Yeah but the other half is still far more variety than what western cartoons have to offer.
Yes, because 'game based' is obviously a genre of the highest artistic integrity, and in no a way a glorified toy commercial that would make He Man wince. 'Horror' totally works as a genre outside live action and print. And its not like the West has action, sci fi and artsy independent stuff, nor is there any overlap between genres.

>Humor is very subjective.
>can't even feign defending this abomination

>Anime porn has almost nothing to do with the rest of the anime industry.
You mean the other half of the industry?

>Where did I try to do that?

I like both because I'm a colossal faggot who needs to die.

Point is it isn't leagues better than the West like Animefag likes to imply, and most of the time isn't close to it.

Not the guy. But I can break down what he's saying in layman's: Quantity does not equal quality. Just because anime has a ton of genres does not mean that anime as a whole is inherently better.

Just a example, but if I was making two fruit salads. One with 5 ingredients, and another with 30, and those 30 ingredients were all rotting, the bigger fruit salad wouldn't be inherently better just because it had more variety.


I'm not saying that anime is rotten. But variety does NOT mean that its better.

>chances are, you won't create a story as good as a writer of equal skill level who doesn't have the same restrictions as you do.

This works both ways.
Let's take the supposition that the two writer of extremely equal skill went on to help a kid's cartoon, as opposed to the other who went to go help with a drama. You'd expect the drama to be more exploring and touching, but just because it can accomplish that doesn't guarantee the cartoon will be of a lesser written piece.

If the defining evidence we were using was the average cartoon show against the average anime, variety would definitely be the deciding factor. But the scope of both cartoons and anime expands well past both of those to the point of it being too unwell a comparison. If I was sticking strictly to that though then yeah I'd have no way of disagreeing.

>Anime draws from manga, novels, light novels, games and visual novels, all of them their own industries and markets with their own internal competition.

This detail is better, but still not definitive.

Those sources draw from all sorts of requirements with extremely fluctuating results. A game is incomparably likelier to be focused on its gameplay rather than its written aspects. And only so many visual novels manage to get adaptations compared to how many are actually made, despite writing being its biggest component . It'd make a lot more sense if not juxtaposed just now with games being part of the same group. Which goes back to you-know-what-point about the focus of the conversation being about this and not that.
If the internal competition meant so much for the writing department, I doubt Attack on Titan and Naruto would got nearly as far as they would've.

You get where I'm going with this. The internal competition helps, but it is not a defining detail, which is what your part of the argument needs.

>Seems like a sound system to me.

So long as that wasn't meant to put words in my mouth.

That video didn't show any of the new material that they bring in small orchestras to play.

youtube.com/watch?v=NpS4ebEtLUE

youtube.com/watch?v=KreUinWX6xM

youtube.com/watch?v=RFgPicwIbf8

youtube.com/watch?v=aa22MBGkl9o

You have to admit that nowadays, family guy has some pretty elaborate original scores.

In Japan, "game" also encompasses visual novels which are focused purely on storytelling. Steins;Gate and Kanon for example are based on visual novels.

I don't know what toy commercials have to do with video games.

>And its not like the West has action, sci fi and artsy independent stuff, nor is there any overlap between genres.
Western animation has only a fraction of what anime offers.

>can't even feign defending this abomination
Well what do you expect me to say? Humor just is very subjective.

>You mean the other half of the industry?
I don't know what the size of the porn side is, but it can't be much. The videos are half an hour long and have subpar production quality. You could be completely ignorant of anime porn and not miss anything because it's so inconsequential (just like real porn). I don't know why you're even bringing it up when it's so irrelevant. There's 30-50 half hour long TV shows released every three months and you're talking about porn videos.

>Where did I try to do that?
>
That's not my post, and it doesn't even say that demographics are genres.

Homestuck can probably get something.

Anime and Japan is fucking garbage. So, Cartoons win by default.

Japan has never produced anything as disgraceful as new PPG or Problem Solverz

And they also produced this tacticool piece of animation, which is the best animated anything I've seen in my entire life, and this was 80s

youtube.com/watch?v=3l3yEGblTj8

>anime
>better character design
Bait

Will western cartoons ever be as good as anime?

>Japan has never produced anything as disgraceful as new PPG or Problem Solverz

Problem Solverz is another disposable shit show that was made for a shit block. Who cares? Also, why are weebs so enormed by detailed pictures with barely any real animation? The pictures look pretty, but the animation is okay. Take an animation class and you'll see that anime really isn't that good:

youtube.com/watch?v=5WEFIp6GYT0


Japanese are to animation what Chinese are to manufacturing.

Most likely the op made this thread for bait. Anime is okay, overrated as shit though.

That guy in the video is a fag literally and figuratively. Anyway, stop falling for such obvious bait.

Putting out 30-50 stories a season from many different people working in different industries and media in all genres for all audiences about almost anything means that there's a lot of scope for terrible, bad, average, good and excellent stories.

American shows largely operate only in two modes: episodic children's cartoons and episodic adult sitcoms. These shows are kept running for as long as possible.

You're dancing around, obfuscating and complicating things so much that I can't even figure out what you're trying to argue anymore. You're just trying to muddy the waters as much as possible as a means of doing damage control.

These are all "songs." They're figuratively and somewhat literally a joke compared to actual soundtrack music.

But that's objectively wrong.

Anime character designs are much more detailed.

>Anime character designs are much more detailed.

Oh shit, haven't laughed that hard in years. Hahaha

>Also, why are weebs so enormed by detailed pictures with barely any real animation? The pictures look pretty, but the animation is okay. Take an animation class and you'll see that anime really isn't that good.
Animation quality is not synonymous with framerate. Having a lot of frames doesn't mean you have good animation.

Anime has the best animation in the world, and it's easy to see why once you stop being brainwashed by Disney.

>real animation

That ridiculous detail in each frame in accounted movement is still animation you numbnut. There's no such thing as "real" animation.

Does your understanding and acceptance of it revolve almost biblically around smears and expression or something? Nigga you are stupid.

>In Japan, "game" also encompasses visual novels which are focused purely on storytelling.
So you're giving Japan gets points for adapting stories from other mediums. Wow, the West doesn't do that at all.

>Western animation has only a fraction of what anime offers.
There's less Western stuff in general because it's not turned out in sweatshops by interns, it touches those genres just as much as anime and is less often complete garbage.

>Well what do you expect me to say?
That you're sorry for saying anything as stupid as anime being better at everything when the 'humor' violates the Genova Convention.

>I don't know what the size of the porn side is, but it can't be much.
>taking the use of the word porn literally
>not seeing it as a jab at Yaoi and harem shit
Perhaps I've been unclear. Making bad fetish shows does not making anime better or more varied, it means its more willing to make dogshit.

>it doesn't even say that demographics are genres
And yet it tries to pass them off as anime being more varied because someone bothered to label something everyone knows without thinking about it, and the foreign language makes it sound more sophisticated. Kind of like everything you've been saying to suggest anime is more 'varied'.

>Detailed stills is animation

Animufags are so deluded, I swear. How can something that isn't even moving be animation? Are you retarded?

>Animation quality is not synonymous with framerate

It's synonymous with movement. Not detailed stills.

Salaries in anime are pretty low. Entry level positions are especially ridiculous.