Would a federalisation of the EU be a good thing?

Would a federalisation of the EU be a good thing?

Yes, Yuros need to stop being a bunch of nationalistic cunts and unite to work towards the future one-world space empire

No. I like the idea of the EU because now we have a say in international matters and can compete against the US and China, but the EU needs some fucking reforms as soon as possible.

literally me

yeah we know

Only after it kicks out Denmark, Poland and Hungary, maybe Sweden and Finland too.

No. Name one upside to federalization of the EU other than "muh relevance"

I don't think it's sustainable without either:
1. greater world tension against a real military threat
OR
2. remaining a democratic and voluntary union
OR
3. severe economic hardship

Until one of these occurs, it's not going to happen.

Yes, federal EU the only smart way for Europe to exist in a globalized world. Without it all the smaller nations would be cobbled up by the big players, we need to stand united.

>That Russia line
Arsepained yank detected

Funny, coming from a Brit of all people. I can't even bothered to remember how often I see Brits claiming they're totally not European (sometimes while at the same time claiming Ireland is European).

We aren’t
And Ireland is European
It’s a cultural thing
Look at our art
Our politics
Our legal system
Fuck just look at our social attitudes

...

With all this nationalistic and separatist rhetoric, it will be a very tough sale.

But you're absolutely right. Small isolated nations can't compete against the immense economies like China and the United States.

Because of this an immense amount of New Zealand's assets are American and Chinese owned. Even if there was a pan antipodean union with Australia, we couldn't compete.

Europe needs to unite or it will be bought out by these economies.

How's Utrecht Alexy?

>implying esperanto is bad
eternal anglo detected

The core tenents are good but the barriers to federalize and the connected risks are far too great as noone can completely trust the bruesselian elite.
The only region that could pull it off might be germany, france and benelux.
But even then the questions of governance and how to draw the provincial borders will be huge. The french were always into centralisation. We germans always more a federation of cultural areas on equal footing. Our traditions of governance diverge a lot despite us being neighboors.

Only when you finally accept bilinguality with spanish and make canada and mexico part of your country-their provinces getting the same voting rights and function of your states.

Yes, it's a great idea. We are already one country anyway. There are no boarders between Netherlands, Germany, Belium, France etc. So why keeping them in legislation and in our heads?

Also, it would fix all this mess with the privileges of certain countries. Either you are in it or you aren't. There would be only federal states but no "countries" as entities.

Esperanto is not a language but only a way to express yourself. Sounds disgusting.

the guy needs to argue with his hands

You are as european as sri lanka is south east asian.

>There are no boarders between Netherlands, Germany, Belium, France etc.
No border controls, you fucking idiot. There are clearly borders and you can clearly notice it when crossing them.

The Canadian-American border is the largest unguarded border in the world, yet if I were to call the two one country you'd laugh at me. Do you get why I'm laughing at you now?

Esperanto is a well intended meme.

>I pass the street and I'm in dutchland, buying something in the bakery there
>I walk back and am in Germany

No.

...

Did you even read teh post you're replying to?

>Would a federalisation of the EU be a good thing?
Why do you want to create an Islamic State?

When will a CANZUK union with free movement happen? I’d imagine you all would share a common interest of stopping the Chinks. I’m not against EU but I think CANZUK allied with the EU would be better for everyone since the UK wouldn’t be there to block EU reforms.

What is your point? Nowadays it's useless

>hurr
Do you think nations and their borders work like fantasylands from mmos?
While the dutchs main difference to us is their constitutional monarchy I could write pages about the differences of french and german governing mentality.
Which one will have the greater influence in the shaping of a federation will be a huge struggle.

nope

I would love that. Australia and NZ already have free movement, though Australia are pushing the boundaries of that relationship (rounding up Kiwis and deporting them, denying them medical privileges, ramping up student prices without warning) Kiwis are treated like second-class citizens in Aus, though Aussies in NZ are given our citizenship privileges.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say that the relationship is already tenuous. A CANZUK relationship seems very unlikely IMO, at least anytime soon. I'm not sure I'd want free movement if it meant that the Middle Eastern population in the UK were going to start moving here either, we can't and shouldn't have to deal with the social problems they cause. Our current refugee quota is already a burden on the state.

A union that has to get rapefugees to keep its population? Probably not. I honestly don't understand why they decided to import rapefugees with name of 'muh human rights' rather than someone better like the Chinese or the Indians.

There are a plenty of qualified Chinese or Indian STEM graduates who will die to go to Europe and yet the EU chose rapefugees over them.

They are literally doing worse job in immigration than like Canada (which uses point-based system to weed out unqualified immigrants and which makes rapefugees to pay back the loan they got from Canada as well as interest from the loan) or Australia (which deports rapefugees to Nauru)

>I could write pages about the differences of french and german governing mentality
That's why you shape it together in the EU. In the end it will be for the european citizens and not for a "France" or a "Germany" because it doesnt't exist as such.

Still there is no significiant difference between the people living there. You enjoy life, the same way as the other one does on the other side. We work the same way, we go to the groceries, we smoke in the dutch cafes, they buy at lidl. The only point to keep your own country is being nationalistic without any plausible reason.

...

Id rather torment myself with latin.
Is much more classy for us euros.

This attitude presupposes that you can build a country from the top down rather than the bottom up. YOu can't.

>We work the same way, we go to the groceries, we smoke in the dutch cafes, they buy at lidl.
Yes. And you drive a Japanese car with Chinese electronics over brickroads laid by Poles to get a Turkish kebab. Open your borders goy.

yes

>not denying that he is eternal anglo

>borders
>states

Let me explain it to you as if id do with a child.
You have manys you want to make into one.
The way you want to make it into one must be decided by the people of the manys and not by an outside one.
The manys are ones made of manys themselves but have different ways of one-ness.
How do the many who know different ways of one-ness decide on being one in particular?
There will be arguments.
These will be important and long.
So long and important that the many rather stay as they are at the moment and even the most optimistic people like schulz aim for the next decade then just pretending as if the barriers only exist in the heads of evil irrational nationalists.

You would have federal states such as Bavaria, Bretagne or Andalusia in a European Federation. This gives you enough granularity. There are different opinion within Germany how to govern aswell. That's how democracy works.

fuck the EU

it's just another tool of lizardmen-tier bankers to control people

> There will be federal states in a federacy

NO SHIT
So you have no idea and just want to start talks on how it could be done so something might come out of it eventually.

I just explained it, Petry. A European Federation would be made-up from the federal states. There is no uber-big french or big German entity, which could decide over less populated manies. Also, Saxons would argue against Bavarians, Britons would argue against Parisians. Of course it would be alot of arguments. But in the end you would have something which everybody is happy with.

You can't avoid different opinions. It wouldn't change if you wait 50 years longer.

Fuck no.
We made a clusterfuck out of a good idea as is, but unnatural merging would be a horrible idea.

What we need is a complete redirection in which way Europe heads.
Strong and unified towards the outside world, while keeping as many souvereign rights with the member states as possible.

Like that EU army nonsense. Militaries are the right and duty to every souvereign nation. Freedom and taking away souvereignity are polar opposites, simple as that.
A "EU Task Force" might be an interesting idea. Developing a means of force projection that is contributed to by all members. But for that we all need to stop hiding behind the US in all things military (we are the worst offenders in that field).

When it comes to foreign affairs, having some kind of ministry for that on EU level would be okay, granted the representatives are elected and vote about what stance the EU takes in various affair. Also the vote needs to be equal, not weighted. And bigger members need to stay in line even when outvoted on issues (looking at us again).

Inwards, the EU should leave its members the fuck alone. Every member should be able to decide for themselves if they want to participate in a project, adopt regulations or even adapt them, etc.
Look at the Euro for example, not the worst idea on paper, but it did not exactly helped Greece, quite the opposite. Countries should be able to adopt a two-currency-system for example. Keep their own, but accept Euros for them investment and tourist moneys.
Useful ideas will prove themselves over time and will see more implementation.

Any federalisation or merging can only happen naturally, and we are decades away from that at the very least. The member nations need to get on a more equal footing long before that.
Also it can not happen under the dominance of one nation, look at the German unifaction under prussia, drove the Austrians forever out. (Still glad we united though).
Assuming leadership roles isn't inherently bad though.

>It would be cool to live in a super european state.
>But it's not going to work or be done.

>Countries should be able to adopt a two-currency-system for example
Greece got this offered btw. Greece is still far better off than before the EU, when they had infaltion after inflation. That's why they aren't leaving. They couldn if they wanted.

True to a degree, yes. And yet some Greek exceptionalism might have offered them a better deal.

No, It's only good if it's german imperialism (it isn't now, btw)

/thread

GOD DAMN NO!
Every country in Europe has a different culture and a long history of killing each other. The reason Europe managed to conquer the world is because a bunch of countries were trying to conquer each other. Also the government would be a bunch of corrupt socialist who wouldn't care about people.