What was the moral of the story? I mean communism did work under Snowball...

What was the moral of the story? I mean communism did work under Snowball, it was Napoleon who fucked everything to dirt.

jews are pigs

It's less allegorical and more a retelling of how Communism developed in Russia buddy.

it blames the failure of communism on dictatorship / totalitarianism

orwell was a socialist

farmer vs pigs
who was better

Therein lies the point. It's a system that lives or dies based on the morality of its leaders. Corruption ruins communism more quickly than it does more liberal systems of organization.

BROTHER

so what you're saying is

>Communism worked until it catostrophically suddenly didn't

You got it pal.

Because when you put that much power in such few hands the good one will get ousted by the evil ones very soon.

I always just thought it was supposed to be funny.
what's not funny about a big ruling with an iron fist over a farm?

The whole point was how easily the system could be corrupted by private interest

Anyone who has studied both the political systems of the United States and the Soviet Union is struck by the irony that the Soviet Union was easily the more democratic & representative of the two.

Would you care to elaborate or are you just being insanely contrarian?

It was because of communism that Napoleon was able to weasel his way in and fuck shit up.

That always ends up happening in a communist society.

The Soviet Union's political system was a bottom up approach of local leaders being voted on bu their peers and then being promoted through the ranks, as opposed to the American system of privileged few churned out from the elite universities who must be groomed by the political parties and must assiduously curry the favor of the deep pockets of industry & interest groups

>and then being promoted through the ranks,
huh really makes you think how exactly this worked

>and must assiduously curry the favor of the deep pockets of industry & interest groups
ironically this was the same as in the soviet union, only there was only one special interest group and it's name was the party

Orwell was a socialist, so he hated communists.

Marxists don't get along with other Marxists desu

ok buddy, your ignorance is showing

*builds wall to keep people in the democratic Sovjet Uniton*

OATS
A
T
S

>The Soviet Union's political system was a bottom up approach of local leaders being voted on bu their peers and then being promoted through the ranks,

If you replaced American system with Soviet System and vice versa, this whole paragraph would shit on communism, but if kept the same, it would shit on capitalism even though both in theory have a bottom up approach but in reality are just oligarchies.

If only there were a... "Third path" of sorts that could balance these two idealogies out...

>if you don't think the soviet union was ruled with the iron fist of the communist party you're ignorant
next tell me it was a worker's paradise filled with milk and honey and no one ever starved

Did the Ukranians vote to have their food stolen by their government and die by the millions?

Pork is the tastiest meat.

Not that user, but I'm pretty sure if we reformed the American political system so that instead of voting for President, Senator, Representative, governor, state rep., mayor, alderman, etc. we just had you vote for alderman and everything else worked it's way up the chain of command you'd find it less democratic that the current state of affairs.

Haram

My point was that the USSR was more DEMOCRATIC than the US and it was. Your attempts to shift the discussion are futile.

That would be lamb.
Pork is one of the best still

Sounds like we need to start from scratch.
Here's the definition ala Wikipedia:

Democracy (Greek: δημοkρατία, Dēmoskrátos literally "rule of the people"), in modern usage, is a system of government in which the citizens exercise power directly or elect representatives from among themselves to form a governing body, such as a parliament.

Does this more closely describe a government made of officials from multiple political backgrounds, each elected to their position by citizens or a government made of officials appointed by the dictator who was chosen by other high ranking members of a political party?

So the people had a say in literally only the lowest level of Soviet government?

I believe Orwell later claimed that he wasn't trying to criticise communism in general (he was a socialist), just the Russian version. He became disillusioned with the USSR when he witnessed their methods first hand in the Spanish Civil War.

At least that's what my high school english teacher told us. I didn't particularly like it and only read it that one time.

>made of officials from multiple political backgrounds
Oh sweet naive user. There is only one political background and that is money. The American government is one that serves private interests. This is not even to mention the ways in which the government seeks to limit your vote through such things as gerrymandering & first past the post. it is democratic in only the shallowest appraisal.

I won't argue the point, but at least they serve different, sometimes conflicting, financial interests.
> it is democratic in only the shallowest appraisal.
The communist apologist faggot's point was "that the USSR was more DEMOCRATIC than the US."
Which is just completely false.

Nazism was the ideology of the weak.

National Socialism is the only reason you're not living under a communist regime right now :^)

>Dunkirk
>Muh Marginot Line
>Implying America did anything

umm if a nation cant defend its borders then its not a nation sweetie
maga!!!!!!!!

>defending borders
>from your own people who want to leave
made me kek

America is the reason all of Europe wasn't communist after WWII.

All Germany did was get bent over by the Red Army and give Stalin an excuse to just take half of Europe.

>The Berlin Wall was built to keep out all of those West Germans swarming into the East to get away from capitalism
Really makes me think

90% of the German army was fighting to Soviets, the US did fuck all in the war except allow Communsm to spread all over the world.

No it isn't. Had Hitler waited literally 6 months before attacking Poland, Britain would have been at war with the USSR eventually and in fact had the Finns not capitulated (despite having an insanely better k/d ratio) then UK would have been at war with USSR by the end of 1939.

Hitler, instead of using his diplomacy avenues to unite with Britain and France and attack USSR, he instead attacked Poland, dragging Britain into the war. Then attacked France. Hitler was mental, him and his advisors, in the 30's, planned to develop a nuke to drop on the USA. The reason they didn't have one? Hard Water supply. Who had Hard Water production? Norway. What happened? Germany produced enough Hard Water to make a nuke and put it on a armoured train, which dropped off at a lake crossing, put it on a boat (which was unguarded) and let British Commandos plant a timed bomb on it to make it explode as soon as it was directly over the deepest point.

Hitler was an autistic ADD retard who thought he could do everything and thought he was a TACTICAL GENIUS because he attacked incredibly weak countries using his illegally procured armies.

Instead of WW2 we could have had The Great Russian Division, where France, the British Empire, Germany, Poland and Japan, plus potentially USA, Czechoslovakia, Finland, Sweden and Romania would have crushed the USSR and divided it up between them. Hitler would have got his Lebensraum, he'd have killed Gommunism :DD, UK would still have it's Empire, the Cold War wouldn't have started and the Eastern European states wouldn't have devolved into the clusterfuck it is now.

>What was the moral of the story? I mean communism did work under Lenin, it was Stalin who fucked everything to dirt.
Well, duh

It's anti-Stalin, not anti-communism

This is factually wrong. 99% of historians agree that America shortened the war, it did not win it. Historians believed, without Americas help, the war would have gone on for about 10 more years. But the result was the same. Germany loses.

Germany worked POW's and Undesirables to death in their hundreds of thousands to produce their shit. USSR worked millions of their own to death to do just the same. Wargames have been done which prove that Hitler would have failed to invade Britain even had he won the Battle of Britain. Even had he NOT invaded USSR, then USSR would have eventually invaded Germany.

The only alternate potential timeline is that Germany allies with all of Europe to curbstomp USSR.

90% of the German army LOST to the Soviets. America did economically what Germany shit the bed trying to do militarily: ended the Soviet Union.

>99% of historians agree that America shortened the war, it did not win it. Historians believed, without Americas help, the war would have gone on for about 10 more years
lol
you literally just pulled this out of your ass

Did you come up with this using tarot cards or a magical crystal ball?

I didn't say America won the war by itself dumbass. I said it's the only reason the Red Army stopped where it did instead of rolling all the way to the English channel.

They also had a near 2 to lol ration giving the Soviets , who vastly outnumbered them, the largest net amount/ratio of any other country involved in the war.

US did fuck all, Britain did fuck all, and France mostly joined the Germans under the Vichy.

>Hitler was an autistic ADD retard who thought he could do everything and thought he was a TACTICAL GENIUS because he attacked incredibly weak countries using his illegally procured armies.

Dead meme is dead, Hurr actually.listned to his generals quite often and was actually advised to launch operation Barborossa by his generals. He did not have ADD, but towards the end if the war (44-45) he was addicted to amphetamines.

>Germany worked POW's and Undesirables to death in their hundreds of thousands to produce their shit. USSR worked millions of their own to death to do just the same. Wargames have been done which prove that Hitler would have failed to invade Britain even had he won the Battle of Britain. Even had he NOT invaded USSR, then USSR would have eventually invaded Germany.

Hitler had no real.intentions of invading Britain, the Germans had a scenario mapped out for IF they did, as a just in case, but they were just going to keep bombing them and waging a war of attrition against Britain.

No, that would be the fascists.

Funny thing about Animal Farm is that people read it through modern eyes and think that criticism of communism in the west was the norm when then book was written. In fact, UK officials were highly critical to the publishment of the book because at the time, UK and Russian governments were friendly with each other. Orwell's view was a breath of fresh air at the time even though it seems like the logical thing to think about dictatorial communism now.

Orwell was an incredibly accurate and foreseeing analyst of larger societal factors. That he also had the ability to translate his thoughts into edible fiction for the masses is incredible.

Americans directly elect an absurd amount of government officials at the local level, including sheriffs, school board members, and treasurers.

You're what they'd call a moron.

Good execution is more important than right idea.

>communism did work under Snowball, it was Napoleon who fucked everything to dirt.

Exactly.

> tfw when you're a german who likes nazi political ideologies and multiculturalism

>who likes nazi political ideologies and multiculturalism
How can you fuck up this bad

Wow, we got some real philosophy majors in here, man!