JSA Storytime: Captain Atom

Good evening owls of Sup Forums,

gettin' handsy

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twitter.com/EthanVanSciver/status/732781766948327426
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Hi OP!

oh snap did Bates leave

No, he's just second-billed now

HI user

so much salt on twitter about the spoilers

I, for one, welcome our new Johns overlord

>so much salt on twitter about the spoilers

Twitter nothing, the whole of Sup Forums is going into hyperkalemic shock right now.

So much salt EVERYWHERE

It's amazing

I'm glad the majority of the negative stuff is the parts I don't give a single fuck about. I'm sure there are people crying about Wally being a regression of diversity or something but I didn't try looking for it.

I'm iffy on what we've heard just because Johns kind of falls flat when he's writing bigass cosmic-scale metaphysical epics (see Darkseid War).

Nothing that we've heard is irredeemable shit out of hand though. I like the idea of making the Joker a sort of contagion that creates a legacy character with multiple identities

Dan Slott was losing it and I wanted to ask if the covers to Crisis on Infinite Earths count as a spoiler

i just wanna read the issue. i'm not enjoying the shit storm as much as i expected.

and i'm still worried for the West senpai

A friend made the quality observation that this is like what we usually get as a dragged out setup event, in one issue for $2.99, and how respectful that actually is of fans

>crying about Wally being a regression of diversity
yep

I know, right? Not sure what the crossover in people who have never gone through this before vs. people who just want to bitch is.

Honestly it's incredibly how much salt there is.

Sup Forums, reddit, tumblr, twitter, cbr, etc. If there's comic fans, there's salt.

Way to go Johns. Go out with a bang, dude.

how? Nu52 Wally is still around and in at least 2 books!

or are they talking about the regression of losing Linda and the kids i know they aren't

>I like the idea of making the Joker a sort of contagion that creates a legacy character with multiple identities
I don't. Let's castrate the Joker already, please.

>DC’s Chief Creative Officer Geoff Johns wrote Rebirth #1 as a temporary farewell to the comic book medium. Inverse met with Johns in Manhattan to discuss his changing role at the company, and why he’s comfortable moving onto DCU films after producing this particular comic.

>To Johns’ credit, Rebirth is a stunning superhero story, shocking enough in its choices to charge up the reader, and steeped enough in genuine emotion to make its characters — oldies we all know, including Batman, The Flash, Aquaman — feel like present, culturally relevant personalities. Rebirth is chock full of moments fans will be analyzing for months. When we mentioned this to Johns, he smiled, seeming relaxed. Upon first handing us the comic, however, he interrupted himself, exclaiming, “No, don’t flip to the last page! Trust me!”

>Johns’ final page is a doozy; after a long and winding search for who (within the DC universe) stole Batman and the other characters’ vitality, their reasons for being, their connections and legacies and history, Batman digs into the wall of the Batcave and discovers The Comedian’s pin, from Alan Moore’s seminal graphic novel, Watchmen, which was published by DC in 1986 and 1987. Johns is, understandably, worried that the internet will explode at the plot twist, pitting DC’s superheroes against the Watchmen line-up, hoping for simple clicks based on the kookiness of the premise. “It’s more than that,” he says, and he’s right. For that reason, it’s a shame that Rebirth leaked, in disconnected pages and segments, on Reddit last night. The volume must be read, in its entirety, in order to be understood and appreciated.

You fool! If you do that he'll just come back with more balls than ever!

You know, I think I'm feeling even-keeled about this precisely because I suspect that as dirty scan-divers who'll read anything, we've actually read in recent memory a ton of continuity-finessing events, and thus we haev reasonable expectations and the understanding that it's what the event LEADS to that matter

I saw someone say that you should just forget the event and handwave what you want to do, and lol no--fans expect some work shown. They like continuity.

That this is his comics swan song for the foreseeable future is amazing. Blew it up, gave the finger to shit bosses, and bounced

Yeah I knew they'd be out there but i can't give a fuck. I'm happy about Flash for the first time in a while. I will not let anyone ruin this for me.

Should have been Jenni from the start if they wanted a black kid speedster. Never made sense to bring him back as a child.

It makes more sense to me than having it just be one crazy person with stupid amounts of plot armor

>The most simple plotline in Rebirth is this: Wally West is being sucked into the Speed Force, slowly and painfully, and he risks being forgotten by all the other DC superheroes. In trying to break out of the Speed Force, he appears to characters whom he believes will remember his name, but none of them do. While trying to survive, he’s tugged all over the DC universe, peeking in on lesser heroes and villains, all characters Johns says will appear in future post-Rebirth issues.

>He finally finds Barry Allen, the original Flash, and just after accepting his own death and thanking Barry for every good day, Barry remembers him and grabs his arm, pulling him back into reality. Wally speaks with Batman in the last few issues of the comic, and they both agree that some unseen, insidious presence has been toying with DC heroes, making their stories weaker. Their connections have begun feeling false, and their appeal has been decaying, but why? In the final panel of Rebirth, Batman discovers, as we mentioned, The Comedian’s pin. The epilogue suggests Dr. Manhattan has been emotionlessly screwing with DC’s heroes, experimenting with their stories but not understanding their humanity.

>Johns has made DC’s past mistakes canon, in a way, by casting Dr. Manhattan as the clueless, but in-universe, writer of DC’s stories. …Get it

Yeah, there are. These people set up an unwinnable dilemma though.

>gave the finger to shit bosses
I saw that theory about Johns shitting all over Snyder by using Watchmen and I can honestly believe it.
That would be fucking hilarious.

Hello Storyteller.

What spoilers, and what salt? Is it something to do with Wally West? Because of the annoying Wally-fags have to deal with him still being black, I'll be very happy.

>gave the finger to shit bosses

Both comics AND movies.

Johns has gone full Morrison. I fucking love it. Didn't know he had it in him.

And to be fair, that's one thing that Johns has generally excelled at. Just look at what he did with Hawkman to bring him back.

I'm not surprised they tapped him to handle this in the same way. Dude has a pretty good respect for classic continuity and enjoys dusting off old concepts and characters, regardless of how posters here on Sup Forums like to shit on him.

>Johns believes, correctly, that the core message of Watchmen was grossly misunderstood and manipulated in decades following its release. The comic, Johns believes, was a warning not to become disillusioned with the values that have defined DC from the beginning: justice, legacies, epic storytelling, love. Watchmen was not an instruction manual for writing contemporary hero comics.

>“If you don’t understand the ingredients that make, say, a good cake, then you’re not going to be able to make one. This stuff, [superhero comics], it’s alchemy. I’ve always been drawn to relationships. There’s an echo of Green Arrow and Black Canary in ‘Rebirth’ that suggests the heroes themselves miss their connections. If they miss it, we’re going to miss it even more.” Johns is referring to a touching moment in Rebirth, in which Oliver and Dinah meet eyes and feel a tug at something shared in their pasts — their romance together, pre-‘New 52’ — but can’t quite recall why they feel a spark for each other. Johns says Green Arrow, having lost what matters and feels good about his story, begins Rebirth as depressed, though he doesn’t know why.

>That’s the beauty of Johns crafting a meta-text in Rebirth that’s in communication with DC’s most famous meta-text, Watchmen: he doesn’t sacrifice genuine emotion and vulnerability in the process of matching Alan Moore’s intellect. For Johns, superheroes like The Flash are motivated by the purest objectives in fiction. It’s not worth making every single superhero story dark and, to use a cliched word, gritty, because that marketing tool misses the point of superheroes entirely.

I think also the fact we're reading old and oftentimes forgotten runs gives us an appreciation for an ending.

because he's marginalized just by there being another Wally who will inevitably take over

What no one wants to admit: Young Wally as he exists was a poorly-introduced attempt at TV synergy that probably shouldn't have been okayed by Editorial. Now that he exists, you gotta fix him, and it's doable.

We've been saying for years that Johns is totally on the Hypercrisis train with Morrison. Waid bounced to Marvel, Giffen doesn't give a shit and just writes what he wants, so out of the original Hypertime proponents, it's really just him and Morrison left, and Morrison isn't doing ongoing work for DC right now.

Fuck, and neither will be Johns soon either.

Who's going to pick up the continuity welding-torch behind them?

Some guy on reddit posted leaks which led to DC lifting their media embargo because there was no point in holding things back at that point: newsarama.com/29406-best-shot-review-dc-rebirth-special-1-with-spoilers-10-10.html

>Readers, and Johns himself, believe the creators of the ‘New 52’ comics, in part incorrectly inspired by what they thought was a manifesto in Watchmen, are to blame for the loss of many beloved storylines and distinctive tones across DC’s pantheon. The ‘New 52’, and the direction DC films have gone in lately, have homogenized DC’s characters as grim spectacles, punching up giant foes and not feeling anything in particular for their teammates. Johns, and DC, have made the stunning choice to embody that extra-textual threat in Dr. Manhattan, who will be the literal foe for Batman and the rest of DC’s heroes, moving forward. “I promise it’s not going to be Batman and company punching Dr. Manhattan a bunch of times. That’s not how you combat something like this,” Johns says, laughing.

>The final few pages of Rebirth are devoted to preview covers for upcoming storylines, including The Flash, Titans, Teen Titans, Batman, Green Lanterns, Green Arrow, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, Action Comics and Superman. What’s notable about each of these is a small plot summary, or conceit, under each title. Titans’s reads: “Wally West uncovers a secret that will destroy his friends!” Johns says this was intentional, for the first round of Rebirth comics. “I spoke with every creator and helped them get down to the core of what’s great about their hero, and what’s happening to them as we start.” Each of DC’s heroes are now being sold to comic book readers as individuals with existing connections; it’s an impressive attempt at reaching both new readers and fans of classic DC comics. Their stories are simplified and focused homages to their original, legacy comics.

If I was generous I'd say that they're worried the Flash Family won't be able to do it's traditional thing spreading out the focus to everyone more or less evenly.

i don't think it's that though

Some of it is with Wally West, yes.

Some are salty about the white one being back since it'll put the black one on the backburner, some are salty about his wife and kids not coming with him, about him wearing the Kid Flash costume, and about him apparently not being Flash after all this

Other than that is the salt towards Watchmen characters appearing and Manhattan being reponsible for new 52

>Johns’ final comic for DC in a while is a triumph, and an optimistic shout into the void. DC’s success will depend on whether the team of creators DC has amassed to take up Johns’ call for legacy and honest storytelling have the skills to drive the endeavor home. As for Johns, if Rebirth is any indication of where he’ll take DC’s upcoming blockbuster films, we’re in for intelligent, emotionally resonant storytelling, and that’s the most exciting part of the comic. As Johns’ influence grows, DC will only benefit from having him sounding off on the brand’s largest decisions.

Shit, sorry, I'm distracted and posted a wrong page

I knew he was in on it but I didn't think he'd go "demonize the editors and WB in-story" with his anger.

And there's still Rucka, King, and Orlando.

Everyone hates Black wally. Even CBR

>second spoiler
Honestly, I have so few fucks to give. And I like Watchmen.

Oh sure but even the people who hate him and want diversity would rather they change him into something less annoying and older and not a complete stereotype who needs Barry to guide him

i've been saying forever it's Vendetti/Booth that're the actual problem. now that he has new writers maybe he has a chance

...

Yeah it's probably people who like replacement over addition. I say fuck them because they don't actually care about me or any other fans and will gladly label all dissenting views as racist.

So basically, everyone is pissed because DC rent Wally West a new gaping asshole in every possible direction. Nice.

>Watchmen
Heard about that. Not sure how to feel about it. Didn't read Watchmen because I'm wary of so-called "masterpieces". And I don't give a fuck if that makes me sound like a hipster, nothing is THAT good.

The guy handling post-Rebirth Flash is the same one who's writing Martian Manhunter right now, yes?

Hopefully it'll be better.

I want Percy to be good and he apparently does try to listen to criticism, but Teen Titans man

I'd prefer Jeff Parker be chosen to break the curse

No MM guy is on Suicide Squad

I'm still so excited to see pre-New 52 Nate (going by costume) in the backdrop of that Dinah/Ollie page, owls. With Actual Manhattan out there, he can go back to being himself.

Nope, guy handling MMH is handling SS.
I think this is the guys first DC work

Another point toward storytime sigiling working

it's the guy who does Nailbiter I think is the name, Serial killer Image book

>pre-New 52 Nate

that was the most sigil thing

Joshua Williamson is on Flash
He writes Nailbiter and Birthright I think

MMH writer is on Suicide Squad

Watchmen is legitimately good shit. It's just that people tend to praise it for the wrong reasons (it's superheroes BUT DARK AND EDGY AND REALISTIC)

When you actually sit down and parse out the structure of storytelling it features between Gibbons' art and Moore's writing, it really is a pretty brilliant piece of work on its merits.

I swear to god, there's got to be at least one higher-up who lurks these threads.

Sometimes I wonder just how many people involved with comics actually post here anonymously.

this will end well

I'm kind of stunned, honestly

this user speaks the truth

I don't know if you're supposed to, but I definitely see Allard as a tragic dude in this. Eiling has basically molded him from childhood trauma, and what Eiling puts Allard through by having his hand on the switch for Major Force - but saying no - is an endless sadistic torture.

There's a reading, which I think this page lends itself to, that Eiling is transforming Allard into a model of himself through suffering. Which to me really plays into Eiling as a military villain, because that's what bad old men who like wars do.

speaking of Williamson EVS teased that he was talking to him

Flash/HJGLC crossover on the horizon maybe?

It's a very well made comic, most of it comes from the symbolism and though, it fully utilizes the medium and there are some sequences that are just pure brilliant. The story and characters are not THAT good but it's still a comic worth reading because while it's not necessarily the first to make people think "there's more to comics than just good guys in spandex punching bad guys in spandex" it is the one that got big and made MORE people aware of the fact that there's more to this medium. I think Miracleman is better and Moore's best are Swamp Thing and From Hell imo.

>I'm iffy on what we've heard just because Johns kind of falls flat when he's writing bigass cosmic-scale metaphysical epics

He's also got a lousy history of writing stories that promise a dialing back on stuff like utlraviolence that just get followed up with more of the same. Oftentimes written by him.

Rebirth could be Infinite Crisis all over again. But with Watchmen instead of Alex Luthor, Superman-2 and Superboy Prime.

If anyone will make Barry/Hal team ups happen it's EVS

Watchmen is worth reading for Gibbons' alone regardless of how you feel about Moore. And IMO while Moore is arrogant and has his standbys and flaws as a writer he is also a supremely good comic writer when he's on form. Like right now Providence has a lot of Moore-y shit to be wary of but there's few writers doing anything like the textual referencing that does as skillfully as that does.

It's like: Thunderbolts, JSA, LOSH, dat Nate: mein gott, what more can happen?

Oh yeah, we did Grimjack a while back and now there are two Ostrander Kickstarters running

You totally are. I think there's also the subtext that Eiling didn't do this to his own son, who is tied to him but not nearly as tightly.

forgot link twitter.com/EthanVanSciver/status/732781766948327426

If Venditti weren't writing that book I'd be okay with a crossover.

I still want Aquaman and Wonder Woman to. Like politics and being steeped in myth. And they could share Queen Clea who hasn't appeared in forever.

And now look at this page

Don't bother, cranky never listens to anyone else.

apropos of nothing, my dream book is Waid/EVS Hawk and Dove

Fucking Allard, man.

I saw they added the Durlan issue of LEGION to Comixology

>no Stealth birth issue yet

Yeah. It's interesting to look at what distinguishes Randy and Allard (and Randy and Peggy, and Allard and Babylon). That whole "my son doesn't have to be this" can speak to an arrogance of Eiling's too.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

Parker gave us guest star Diana but not full-on crossover

He's still getting tortured right? Am I falling for the ruse

Well, maybe ignore that D:

So many complex family relationships in this run

Allard is like the MVP of the supporting cast in my opinion.

Eh. I guess I can check it out sometime. I just get turned off from works that get spammed to hell and back. I'll give Watchmen a chance. But Jojo can go fuck itself.

Hey, user, speaking of going off to fuck one's self...

no, he's been mindfucked and returned

Definitely an absent father/parents trend. Whether literally with Nate, and Babylon's dead parents, or with Eiling's emotional coldness. Even minor characters like that detective guy.

oh they let him go ?

I kind of know what you mean. Whenever I read or watch something because it's recommended I don't enjoy it as much as if it's just something where the concept seems interesting.

:(

I read the first 2 volumes/stories/generations/whatever you call it of jojo, not that good.

The worst thing here is that if Allard wins then basically, Eiling wins. He partners up with a murderous supervillain to win? No different from Eiling not giving a fuck whether his superguy is Nate or Zmeck as long as it suits his angle (and he can control it).

Wade is such a good villain!

Another parallel to the first issue--handing the letter off

Usually older stuff ends up overpraised and your expectations are too high. I've come to understand this and always take suggestions of "this is one of the greatest ever" with a grain of salt.

>I still want Aquaman and Wonder Woman to. Like politics and being steeped in myth.
Most writers suck at politics, so even if we did get this, it would probably be grating and headache inducing.

>And they could share Queen Clea who hasn't appeared in forever.
She's a Wonder Rogue. Nobody uses Wonder Rogues. Except Rucka, so there's something to look forward to.

I like all the supporting cast, I think there's barely a bad character among them. I think back to even that random guy on the yacht who had like 4-5 panels and how you can see his dialogue as having a characterful dual meaning. The comic explores all its characters really well.

...

...

Here though it's like he's handing off his humanity. Does he even mean that gesture? You don't see the letter get ripped up this time - do you need to? Allard knows exactly what happened to Nate.

Yeah, Allard is transformed from a generic toadie into another fine piece of Eiling malevolence the second Major Force shows up and it's established Allard's basically been groomed his entire life by a guy who used his mother's killer in an experiment.

Y HALO THAR!

Yeah, you can't replicate the experience of reading Watchmen when it was new and innovative and no one had been influenced by it, but you can do your own close reading of what's on the page.

The difference between those two experiences is some of what I think Johns is getting at in how he uses it, just guessing

If anyone will make Barry/Hal team ups that may end up appealing only to EVS, it's EVS.

Is this the most genuinely hurt/surprised we've seen Eiling?

(is it genuine?)

I don't really understand the reasons why supporting casts have been gradually phased out from comics recently. Especially cape books, which are ostensibly about heroes using their abilities to help people. But like, if we don't really meet any other people, how are we supposed to stay invested in the story?

Barry and Hal chatting about stuff was the best part of Flash Rebirth so I guess when it comes to Barry and Hal EVS and I are on a similar wavelength

I just want them to be friends and hang out again ;_;

decompression and the easy shock value of murderizing some of them. maybe also the feeling that they've gotten too complicated, and writers who don't want to do the work to get them right

Even if it's genuine, is it because of Martin or is it because this could seriously fuck up everything for him?

I think part of the reason is that comic runs are getting shorter and shorter and more action packed

if you're only planning to stick around on a book for 12 issues why bother making a bunch of new characters when you won't have time to flesh any of them out and the next writer probably won't use them either? it was different when writers assumed they'd get 30-50 issues minimum