Did anyone besides me genuinely enjoy these despite their problems? What did you like about them?

Did anyone besides me genuinely enjoy these despite their problems? What did you like about them?

I enjoyed BvS more than Man of Steel. It moved at a much brisker pace.

The only parts I enjoyed were the Batman scenes. When he wasn't murdering people.

In a world of like eight billion people you were the only person to enjoy both.

I enjoyed both. I liked most of the fights and the soundtrack. I liked watching Superman and Batman move around in their costumes.

I can't stand either of these pieces of shit

but I can say that the fight scenes in Man of Steel were visually impressive on the first viewing and were the first scenes outside of animation were I felt that Superman was truly fighting

Plenty of people enjoyed it in spite of the problems, that's how it always is with anything.

At the very least, these movies don't manage to bore me to death like the Marvel ones. Too bad they're both weirdly made. You can tell a lot of thought and energy went into making these films, it's unfortunate that it's not really reflected all that well.

I absolutely love Man of Steel.

It gets better for me the more I watch it and I find more and more to take from it with all the beautiful and strongly thematic visual imagery that it has going on.

BvS isn't as good personally, mainly because of all the unnecessary justice league setup that distracts from the main story, I'm hoping the Director's Cut adds a lot more of the stuff I wanted to see and thus feels less drowned out by Justice League setup but there are still some fantastic scenes that I love in it even if it's less focused than Man of Steel.

I laughed at how terrible they both were before instantly becoming angry after remembering how terrible they both were.

There was nothing wrong with him murdering people.

Murdering people _is_ wrong

I didn't have a problem with this either. I like the concept of the DC heroes losing faith in humanity, but slowly gaining it back by the time that they've formed the justice league.

Agreed.

I actually liked BvS' crazy-ass dream logic progression, the biggest problem I had with it apart from the typical complaints about schizophrenic editing, was that Superman's character really felt like an object or a Macguffin in the plot rather than a person with a development arc and real agency within the story.

This movie was way more about Luthor and Batman serving as foils for each other and their development, rather than Superman's.

What if the people you're murdering are like total dicks?

I like his arc because it deals a lot with how one deals with their identity as a man. It was a very bold and surprising arc for a cape blockbuster.

I liked when they were over.

Only if the fact that they are attempting to kill you is what makes them dicks. That's more self-defence, though.

>It gets better for me the more I watch it
This. Not to start company wars shit, but it's the opposite with Marvel films. I tend to like them a lot after a first viewing, but after a few viewings, I get bored with them. Meanwhile, Man of Steel, I enjoyed more every time, same went for BvS, the two times that I saw it.

I think it has to do with how they're made, and whether or not it's your "jam" so to speak. Marvel movies do a lot for the sake of the audience. They put heavy-handed "emotional checkpoints", or scenes that serve no purpose besides making sure the audience is all on board and know what to feel. On a first viewing, these are very helpful and keep you invested. On subsequent viewings, they do nothing but slow the movie down and make you want to just skip to the good parts.

Meanwhile, MoS, and especially BvS don't really give a fuck about the audience. The movies keep chugging along whether or not you're on board, and this alienates a lot of viewers. The scenes are almost utilitarian in their construction, but it's never really spoonfed to you. This makes the movies often benefit from second viewings because you usually pick up on shit you didn't see the first time. The movies are very self-serving, but I think that makes them more engaging in the long run.

I would've rewritten Wondy's role in the movie so that she'd play more of an obvious part of helping him to recognize the larger universe he's involved with, in order to pull him out of his self-destructive obsession with Superman.

Y'know, make it so that she's the one who sends him the info on herself and the other soon-to-be Justice League members, for example. As it stands, she doesn't really do a lot significant in the movie aside from fighting Doomsday.

I liked BvS but t really isn't a good movie. it's just a montage of set pieces.

Superman in BvS has fewer lines than Spider-man in Civil War.

any scene that was decent in the movie was tied to Ben.

Jessie Eisenberg isn't a bad actor but not a good one for Lex.

and finally Snyder doesn't know what he's doing. As a director excluding sucker punch each movie naturally has a downward decline of likability, suckerpunch is basically at the floor of how bad he can be.

Why when people are talking about the shakeups being done have they not realized that adding Johns will do nothing if Snyder is still connected.

I liked MoS alot, thought BvS could have been better.

I liked man of Steel's visuals and did my best to ignore the fucking stupid story, characterization, and lines when watching it in theaters the first time.

I enjoyed both too.

they were shit. just accept reality and stop this ridiculous support group nonsense.

>problems

Nice try but you're not fooling me!

People don't like these movies only because NOT MUH.

Both of them actually have enjoyable elements. What so hard for people on the Internet to understand about this?

Don't forget the "too confusing!" crowd.

I liked How BvS felt a fully realized fantasy world. The superman is here and Gotham's scariest urban legend os real.

They both have their flaws but I still enjoyed them. Strong points are the choreography and cinematography.

Same. It's a shame because I feel BvS only suffered because of changes and rushing that occured in reaction the backlash towards MoS, and now I'm worried that JL is going to suffer even more for it.

I believe it. I avoided reading Geoff Johns' New52 Shazam origin because I heard so much negative shit about it, but I eventually I decided to read it anyway and I loved it. The only criticism that people seem to be able to hurl at it is "IT'S NOT EXACTLY THE SAME AS IT USED TO BE!"

I don't get why people scream so much about the characterization in this film, but don't do so for the inconsistencies in the Marvel films. Especially considering the fact that Superman actually murdered Zod in the comics and Batman really was a psychopath in various incarnations?

>but don't do so for the inconsistencies in the Marvel films
Because all the fucking casuals and shits that blindly praise the movies are the kind of people who never read the comics in the first place and probably didn't even know who Iron Man was before 2008. Meanwhile, every Joe Sweatsock knows who Batman and Superman are, and has a shitty opinion about them, tainted by years of pre-existing media.

user, you basically described how I felt as well

I don't think anyone said the plot was confusing.
Not making sense or bad pacing/editing doesn't mean people couldn't follow it. Luthor's plan in Africa for example doesn't make sense. That doesn't mean I didn't get that Luthor staged it to turn the Senate against Superman.

Justice League is going to have negative buzz no matter what. Expect reviews to be middling, but better than BvS. I really don't think the people at Warner are going to let this be as bad.

It was alright. Nothing special.
A "don't regret seeing it but won't see it again" type thing for me.

>I don't think anyone said the plot was confusing
The critics did.

>Justice League is going to have negative buzz no matter what.
I don't really care about the buzz, user. I care that all the backlash from BvS is going to cause them to make even more stupid decisions because fans refuse to engage the movies and judge them on their own terms, causing an unnatural creative process and more shitty executive meddling.

THIS.
How many times have people defended the MCU movies with the "Yeah, but no one fucking cares about X character" as a defense whenever that is pointed out?

>nobody cares about Ultron
>nobody cares about Von Strucker
>nobody cares about Baron Zemo

MCU fans are mostly casuals that don't really give a damn about the characters as they are in the comics.

Usually I can sit through movies, even if the quality of their content is dubious at best, but I ended walking off a screening of BvS because it was just such a colossal pile of shit.

>Luthor's plan in Africa for example doesn't make sense.

But it did. Luthor thought that Lois = Superman and wanted to frame Superman so the senate could fuck him. Superman kept himself out of political crisis.

So Luthor put to test his hunch by drawing Lois to a political crisis where he had control and when Superman showed up he had gotten his answer. Then it was just a matter to stage the frame. Now the Senate could say that Superman involvement escalated the situation in that turbulent place.

Triggered by how good it was so you had to leave?

>chris evans laughing gif
I swear I see this in every DCEU thread.

I've never been a big Comic Book guy. But Man of Steel got me into Superman, hard. loved both of these films because I just get them.

It triggered me as it was an insult to good taste.

>doesn't say why

Is it because there were no problems with it?

Have a friend who had a similar reaction. He loved Man of Steel.

I think it's because it builds the character from the ground up in an interesting way, if not a particularly faithful way. It does a very good job of telling the story of an alien raised in Kansas who decides to use his powers to help mankind, and fights off an invasion of his own people. It doesn't hit every note that previous origins hit, and while that really triggers a lot of people, those who are able to judge movies subjectively were able to find a lot to enjoy, and despite the differences, the movie keeps the essential core of the character the same.

No, it's just that I don't really want to waste my time typing everything wrong with a steaming pile of shit.

>if not a particularly faithful way.

To what? Golden Age Superman? Silver Age Superman? Post-Crisis Superman? Post-Infinite Crisis Superman? Post-Flashpoint? ASS?

DC fans are just a different kind of people. Type A personalities. MCU fans are type B

I wish DC fans were most like type B, to be honest. Specially in the case of DC which is full of different versions of the same character.

I absolutely love MoS on every level. It's one of my all time favorite superhero movies. For me it's on the same level as Dark Knight (for different reasons of course).
BvS is a flawed sequel to a favorite movie just like Dark Knight Rises was.

I enjoy MoS and love it. I think the atmosphere of BvS is too grim but I'm cool with it.

Loved MoS, hated BvS

Most of them. It clearly pulls a lot of inspiration from Birthright, but even then, the reluctant Superman and overprotective Pa are kind of new spins.

I think the general idea of Superman's origin, according to most, is basically what we see in the Donner movie, or better yet, Secret Origins. Clark has gifts, and his parents basically predestine him to become a superhero, even going so far as to have Ma make him a costume specifically for that purpose. Superman appears, saves the day, makes a speech, and is universally loved by all. 99% of his origin stories use that as the framework. I don't think it would be unfair to say that one of the biggest (misdirected) complaints about MoS is how the Kents raise Clark, and since it was handled so differently from the most universally accepted version, that is why I say it is not particularly faithful.

You've just reminded me that Snyder managed to BTFO the Nolam trilogy in terms of action. Still can't get over that warehouse fight. That bat mobile chase was fun too.

they are both bad but BvS is better because batfleck.

>MoS and BvS are for true comic fans unlike the MCU flicks
but Batman kills, Superman is broody, and Lex is kooky
>NOT MUH

So who else is hype for that extra 30 minutes? What scenes do you think are in it?

If I knew absolutely nothing about these movies and you showed me the action sequences from either of them I would suck your dick while begging to show me the rest, all the time thinking I'm about to see the greatest Superman and Batman movies of my life.


Then after seeing them I'd feel as tricked and used as I did on those late summer nights when my uncle took me on those "fishing trips"

I am endlessly hype. I'm still hoping for a special theatrical release to be announced.

But every superheroes murdering people right and left in film whether it's Marvel or DC, user.

Well, user, many critics and some fans actually said the plot was confusing which is quit shocking for me because I'm one of those guy that don't know Bat and Supes outside of a Big screen yet I'm completely understand the story even that the nightmare scene and the guy with red armor.

Not Spider-Man. He's such a good guy. I wish we were married. But then I'd marry Wonder Woman, also. She just kills a bunch of Turks, anyway, not that I have any issues with them.

Do you actually think Marvelfags care about that? They're too busy explaining away those movies problems and shitting on the DC films.

I thought BvS was the best superhero movie to date.

Really? To be honest if I wasn't a DCfag that actually read comics is be confused about the nightmare shit/luthor's Darkseid hinting/why Batman was so fucking crazy in general.

At least you can trust them to be tidy roommates.

What made me like BvS was mostly the character arc of Superman, Batman and Lex Luthor.

Sure, you had the fights and the conflict between them, but when you look at each character they're basically dealing with issues of what it means to be a man.

Superman doesn't know how to deal with the unintended consequences of his actions, the guilt of the damages he'd done and the criticisms of everyone, and he's recoiling inside Lois' vagina in a desperate attempt to find a safe place and comfort. He feels that he can be the man his father(s) wanted, so he'd rather not try at all. He's basically turning a infant again. This is pretty much the story of a teenager wrestling with the notion of growing up.

Batman feels like he failed his father, his legacy and his purpose. He's so immersed in own sense of worth and failure that he can't see anything else. Everything that happens he relates it to his own failings. He can't see any distinction anymore. That's where the "We were always criminal, Alfred" comes from. He hunts Superman because he fears Superman will fail everybody as he did and he's basically trying to commit sudoku by going against Superman in a desperate bid to feel worthy again. This is the story of an old man dealing with his mortality.

Lex Luthor was fucked by his father upbringing and importance and everything he did was an attempt to destroy and surpass that domineering image. He wants to be liked, he wants to be worshiped and any slight offense he takes to the extreme. He sees Superman as an extension of his father and he wants to show his power to Superman. He wants to dominate and surpass him. This is pretty much the story of a young man trying to be a man.

The whole thing, the father x son relationships, the way each characters dealt with the women of their lives, all that shit. I loved that. The rest of the movie not so much, but their character arcs surprised me a lot.

It's my favorite with Spider-Man 2, Batman Begins and Man of Steel DESU.

Hopefully Cyborg, Flash, and Billy Batson won't engage in any murdering. Aquaman murdering is probably going to happen though.

Yes, I understand the nightmare scene maybe because I play too many games and watch too many animations? For me, it's nothing news and very easy to get, honestly.

Me too.

I love BvS in part because I'm a Hypercrisis fag and like how the presence of Darkseid/Anti-Life was sort of woven into a lot of the background of the story.

But yeah I can see where someone who doesn't know what to look for would be confused by it.

>Lex Luthor was fucked by his father
you mean the one line he made about his father?

So is it a vision or is it a dream?

Several lines. The dude had clear daddy issues.

I thought Lex was controlled by Darkseid

It's a vision sent through the speedforce to Bruce while he was sleeping.

A vision of a... living Superman?

It's not a dream and that red guy has a power that has something to do with time or dimension.

That doesn't happen until later in the movie.

Before the "communion" scene (which pretty obviously takes place after he lets Doomsday loose), he's just driven by good old-fashioned petty hatred for Superman because his existence invalidates his entire worldview.

I'm shocked at the number of people who don't catch the significance of his Theodicy speech.

>Before the "communion" scene
the one that was deleted?

I think it's divorced enough from Birthright that it's not really worth comparing the two. It's been said in jest but while its imagery references lots of Miller, BvS actually shares the most plot points with JLA: The Nail.

Yep. But even then, when I watched the movie, I figured Lex picked up something that he shouldn't have seen from the ship's computer.

He dug too greedily and too deep into hidden knowledge and hit Anti-Life on the way down.

>and judge them on their own terms,
Can you tell me what this means?
Because it always kind of reds as "just like it already".

Why would the Anti-Life equation be in a Kryptonian ship?

I enjoyed Batman vs Superman, and honestly have no problem with it like other people seem to have. A lot of people call it grimdark an whatnot, but I didn't get that same feeling.
I'm still not over Man of Steel. That was the one that was too "dark" for me.

I think it wasn't the Anti-Life equation, but just the knowledge of Darkseid and Apokalips.

Lex is a completely ego-driven individual, and he hates Superman and wants to destroy or discredit him because he can't comprehend the idea of someone using that amount of power selflessly. In Luthor's mind, "god" (or any figure of authority with sufficient power) must either be just as corrupt as he is, or not actually powerful in the first place.

Darkseid is a being who is both perfectly evil and corrupting, and supremely powerful. Lex faced with his idea of god finally perfectly realized, cracks.

I enjoyed them both immensely. You're not alone at all OP.

>Superman's character really felt like an object or a Macguffin in the plot rather than a person with a development arc and real agency within the story.
That's the entire cast aside from Batman, Lex and the senator lady

Nah, Lois and Perry with the Daily Planet were great too and this movie desperately needed more Clark scenes with them, being an actual goddamn reporter.

Batman suffers from it a little too given that the conflict requires he lack the agency to do his own research.

The fact that Lois became Superman's mom amuses me to no end.

People go into the movies and piss and moan that there wasn't enough joy or hope or fun or whatever. Nobody fucking went into Schindler's List and complained it didn't have enough quips. So many critics' reviews just flat out said "wait for the next Marvel movie instead", implying that they're even similar enough to be compared to each other. That right there shows that they went into this movie with the wrong mindset.

>Lois
>great
The performance was great, don't get me wrong, but she added jackshit to the movie If you were to cut all of her scenes without Supes it wouldn't make a single difference. They just added to the runtime.

Batman wasn't fighting Superman because he thought Superman destroyed everything or whatever. He was fighting Superman because Superman could end as him. Batman was basically killing himself.

Batman was basically committing suicide. This is obvious in the movie.

Supposedly that's one of the things that was cut, but should be restored. I guess there was more of him looking into the Batman and interviewing prisoners at Blackgate to learn how poorly anyone with the Bat-brand gets treated in there.