Kon-El is Superman 52 What Johns often does is franchise building stuff. For example, making Kon-El into the clone Superman and Lex strengthened the movie logline appeal.
Rebirth (GL and Flash) had setups for Kyle Rayner and Wally West. Kyle was imperfectly exploited and Wally wasn't exploited at all but that wasn't Johns' intent. He wanted a healthy expanded franchise.
We have Jon positioned as Superboy. We have Supergirl. We have an elder Superman. We have Steel. We have Superwoman. What we're missing is a mid-range Superman figure to market to the (not Teen) Titans demo. We also happen to lack a convenient place for Kon-El, any version of him.
We know Nuperman was "taught" by Mr. Oz at some point before Morrison's Action #1. Mr. Oz gave Nuperman a black notebook with a red S on it and blank pages. The same Mr. Oz who now informs Superman Classic that neither he nor Nuperman are who they think they are.
I've pieced together who Oz is but that isn't important.
What IS important is that he taught New 52 Superman before his career began and that it was a black notebook with a red S.
William Rogers
Like Kon-El's old pre-Flashpoint T-shirt. Nuperman began his career around the same age Kon-El was before Flashpoint, wearing a T-shirt. Kon-El was brash. Nuperman was brash. Kon-El dated Wonder Girl. Nuperman dated Wonder Woman.
Mr. Oz planted Kon-El to fill in for Superman, who was outside the universe. He "trained" him to be Superman. Solarman's corrupted programming and desire to be Superman is Kon-El's own programming to believe he's Superman, rubbing off.
I have thoughts on where this will go but I'd rather sit on them. I think it can be done to position Nuperman for his own book as a 25 year old ex-boyfriend of Wonder Woman's who was created by Cadmus after the Death of Superman.
Also... Oz has pre-Flashpoint Doomsday in custody. Oz isn't some mere serial villain though. There are several players treating the DCU as a testing grounds for a morality play. Superman fights a never-ending battle for truth and justice but, then again, nothing ever ends. So when it comes to battles being never-ending, aren't they all?
Blake Brooks
OK, first off.... who exactly is Oz, in your opinion?
Secondly... I know that Rebirth spoilers have dropped but I don't recall hearing about how the New 52 Superman wasn't the real Superman. What the fuck?
John Wright
DC Comics Universe in Rebirth Special #1
Clark is approached by a mysterious man calling himself Mr. Oz. Oz informs Clark that he and his family are not what they believe they are. Oz also says the fallen Superman isn't either. We'll have to read upcoming issues to find out what this means.
Elijah Davis
wait is he actually called oz
because given the information we have the most obvious answer would be ozymandias (which is so obvious that it's almost certainly not him)
i would personally guess pre-flashpoint jonn because he was powerful enough to make it through flashpoint
Tyler Murphy
Its either Kon or Chris
John Cook
What Johns often does is franchise building stuff. For example, making Kon-El into the clone Superman and Lex strengthened the movie logline appeal.
Rebirth (GL and Flash) had setups for Kyle Rayner and Wally West. Kyle was imperfectly exploited and Wally wasn't exploited at all but that wasn't Johns' intent. He wanted a healthy expanded franchise.
We have Jon positioned as Superboy. We have Supergirl. We have an elder Superman. We have Steel. We have Superwoman. What we're missing is a mid-range Superman figure to market to the (not Teen) Titans demo. We also happen to lack a convenient place for Kon-El, any version of him.
We know Nuperman was "taught" by Mr. Oz at some point before Morrison's Action #1. Mr. Oz gave Nuperman a black notebook with a red S on it and blank pages. The same Mr. Oz who now informs Superman Classic that neither he nor Nuperman are who they think they are.
I've pieced together who Oz is but that isn't important.
What IS important is that he taught New 52 Superman before his career began and that it was a black notebook with a red S.
Robert Moore
wow.
Aaron Scott
. Nuperman is artificial. Most of the previous DC was remolded, but because Superman and Lois Lane escaped, Dr. Manhattan created new ones, making them the only 'true' New 52 characters. If this is the case, there will definitely be a bit where Manhattan resurrects Nuperman as his evil servant, but Superdad/Lois/Batman break the control. This is more likely as it simply makes more sense given what's provided, but would also render what even 2 years from now at the theoretical conclusion of all this will be the majority of Superman stories in the New 52 essentially non-canon, unless he sticks around anyway.
There's something special about Nuperman we don't know about yet to make him valid. He might be Conner Kent or Earth-One Superman or a brainwashed Jor-El or god knows what, something to reveal he's not 'fake'. Cool, but that still kind of separates him from everyone else in a weird way, and means he lost a world, though if he was a reborn Kal-L as was suggested, I could live with that, and might even start thinking of that guy as Actual Original Superman for the first time.
Liam Diaz
As will this end within 2 years, all 10 years older?
Damian now be an adult?
or Only Superdad age the same and the rest like now?
Elijah Reed
Yep, he's from alternate Cansas i guess
Grayson Diaz
What the hell happened to Connor in Nu52? He had his own series at the start and the just sort of disappeared from my radar.
Jayden Parker
>Oz isn't some mere serial villain though. ho hum
Leo Gomez
Lobdell or whoever came up with the shit idea of Harvest killed him. Again.
Carter Bailey
The titans curse sent him to limbo
Brayden Nguyen
Supergirl writers try to save him but the damage was already done.
Carter Sanders
If you try to cheer thanks
because I imagine this image that theory and have nothing to do with the news of rebirth ..
Jonathan Myers
No, he's clearly Kal-L
Ryder Wilson
Where would Lois come from in that case though? We know that she looks identical to Pre-52 Lois, so she's not a random girl taking her role.
Really, if they end up giving a "real" identity to N52 Superman and Lois, rather than just making them artificial constructs of some kind, I think the most likely possibility is that N52 Superman and Lois are reborn versions of Earth-2 Superman and Lois, who were left dead on the Pre-Flashpoint Earth, and so might have been used to replace Superman and Lois when the world was recreated.
As for his role afterwards? If it's revealed that they were the original Earth-2 versions, they'll probably remember their past life and then will be thrown to the reborn JSA.
Conner could be brought back by just making New52 Superboy remember pre-flashpoint stuff. In the first issues, they actually seemed to be setting up some kind of amnesia plot, but then it was thrown away alongside the other pre-flashpoint references in the initial issues.
Oliver Wilson
I knew it!
Angel Mitchell
So who's Oz?
Blake Long
...
Benjamin Cook
>Mr. Oz is Ozymandias >One of the Jokers is the Comedian >Trinity of sin Question is Rorschach Who could Nite Owl and Silk Spectre be?
Lincoln White
It's more like Suicide Squad Vic Sage is Rorschach
Jace Perry
Pre-Flashpoint Clark and his family are not what they believe they are: strangers from another universe. This was their universe all along, just that memories were altered and time was stolen.
The fallen Superman isn't what he thinks he is: the real Kal-El
Oliver Mitchell
>We know Nuperman was "taught" by Mr. Oz at some point before Morrison's Action #1. Mr. Oz gave Nuperman a black notebook with a red S on it and blank pages
When the fuck did this happen? I have to go back and re-read that shit
Easton Hernandez
But how will be Conner called, if Jon is going to be Superboy?
Dominic Smith
>Nuperman is artificial. Most of the previous DC was remolded, but because Superman and Lois Lane escaped, Dr. Manhattan created new ones, making them the only 'true' New 52 characters.
Holy fucking hell. The Superman and Lois Lane we've been following for the last five years just got Clone Saga'ed.
This is ballsy, even for DC.
Elijah Sanchez
I thought the purpose of Rebirth was to tidy shit up, not make convoluted stories.
Jace Perez
Johns's Superman run
Jacob Thomas
Welcome to Zero Hour part 2.
Christian Watson
The idea behind "Rebirth" is to tidy up the status quo without just rebooting shit and throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Thins get messy in the short term but the idea is to get things back to basics while still respecting the stories of the past.
This is actually a very common practice in superhero comics. Daredevil did something very similar with Soule pulling a Brand New Day and putting Matt's secret identity back under wraps.
Grayson Rogers
>DD has a secret identity again
I really need to catch up I haven't read it in years. I thought it was stupid that in Marvel only Spider-man had a secret identity anymore.
Also I really hope Rebirth does what it sets out to do then, but they need to be careful they are playing with fire by messing with Superman. Everytime they change something about him the fans hate it more and more.
Jack Hill
>Also I really hope Rebirth does what it sets out to do then, but they need to be careful they are playing with fire by messing with Superman. Everytime they change something about him the fans hate it more and more.
I might be a selfish oldfag that just wants things the way I remember them, but I'm honestly really excited about pre-Flashpoint Supes coming back. New 52 Superman's power set, personality, and status quo were always pretty nebulous and I never got a sense of what the character was actually like. I don't think there was anything wrong with the character that a very well-written, highly prolific run couldn't have fixed, but when your character is less than half a decade old, and said character has maybe two or three quality runs to his name, I guess there isn't all that much to lose.
David Thomas
New 52perman is Kal-L. Superwoman is his Lois. Dr Manhattan was using them as place holders because the Kent family was missing around the time he rebooted everything.
Easton Ramirez
Superman's powerset has been nebulous for most of his existence as a character; it was a feature when he was, arguably, at his most popular, since part of the draw of Superman comics in those days was Clark developing a new power.
Liam Foster
Yeah, Silver Age Superman pulled new powers out of his ass every other issue when he wasn't dealing with some fuckery caused by Red Kryptonite.
Hell I'm pretty sure random powers and bullshit was every Superman character's schtick in the silver age.
Cooper James
I hope he's either Kal-L or Superboy Prime.
Henry Davis
>DC Comics Universe in Rebirth Special #1 link?
Tyler Scott
>Morrison's golden age throwback Superman is literally a repurposed Earth One Superman
That's actually awesome if true.
Isaac Wilson
And y'know it could work in modern comics, especially more all-ages ones where the power level autists are less likely to lurk.
Kayden Brooks
>Earth One
Shit, meant Earth Two
Daniel Bell
It's on the level of shitty fanfiction m8, can't believe if it's true.
Ryan Clark
There is no hope .. the pre-flashpoint continues to create problems.
The other lois? superwoman forever o she will die.. they are starting with it.. First my superman now this.
Anthony Flores
>the pre-flashpoint continues to create problems. Fuck off
Aaron Rivera
>What Johns often does is franchise building stuff. For example, making Kon-El into the clone Superman and Lex strengthened the movie logline appeal. That kinda falls apart when you remember it was just him making his old fanfics canon when he got a job at DC.
Josiah Kelly
I support this. his early career looks like Kal-L's
Michael Ross
234242342
Sebastian Cooper
I thought the Nu52 wanted to streamline stories but aren't we basically messing around with everything?
So if the Nu52 doesn't exist why is Wondy still the daughter of Zeus if she wasn't before?
I mean, i know Nu52 GL never bothered with an origin story like Morrison and Snyder did but i thought they cemented things had changed... So I dunno...
And as far as the super family is concerned Nu52 Supes - a new creation Nu52 Connor - really Jon's clone from the future Pre52 Supes - Old hotness Pre52 Jon - new Superboy
And we're gonna have two Wally's now? Yeahbuhwha?
Evan Rogers
They didn't streamline shit, they fucked up what made the DCU so special. These characters aren't anything without their history and legacy.
Thomas White
Morrison retold Supes origin and had a Myx' spawn fuck his life. We saw basically Batman Year One 2.0 (after several years) and Tomasi had Damian's origin tweaked to fit the new continuity.
Come to think lf it your right, they didn't stream line anything. They had multiple reboots at the same time as things were going in mid course...
Fucking DC.
Joshua Phillips
>So if the Nu52 doesn't exist why is Wondy still the daughter of Zeus if she wasn't before? Rucka throwing that out
Elijah Moore
Everybody thought that she was made of clay before it was revealed that she's Zeus's daughter in nu52, so that could still be the case.
Austin Hill
Wouldn't you, given the chance?
Jaxon Moore
>They had multiple reboots at the same time as things were going in mid course...
I wish people would learn the different between "retcon" and "reboot"
Rucka said he doesn't plan on throwing it all out actually. There was also one thing he couldn't change I believe and that is most likely the daughter of Zeus stuff. Unless I missed something between the announcement-related news and the actual interviews. I haven't been focused on this stuff lately. Wanna go in mostly fresh.
Josiah Hernandez
Everyone was saying that this reboot wasn't worth shit in the long run, it was just for a quick bump in sales.
Michael Hernandez
Everyone thought she was made of clay like her classic origin story in the Azzarello run. That could perfectly fit with her previous history.
Anthony Johnson
Actually, Nuperman being Silver Age Superman could be something very interesting to the table.
DC could have Pre-52 Supes do the saving Metropolis and Earth deal, whilst Nupes can go on, ramp up the power levels, and deal with Galactic/Universal/Multiversal level threats as his regular enemies.
This would please everyone, as fans would get Classic Supes, and another one that goes cosmic level. Both are things fans have always wanted.
Sebastian Sullivan
The Mr. Oz plot in Superman was set in motion by Geoff Johns way back in Superman #39 to set this up.
Zachary Rivera
I'd go back and reread the Mr. Oz stuff from Johns' run. There were clues back there. Mr. Oz trained and placed Nuperman. The same Mr. Oz who's involved here.
Aiden Sanders
I wish to god you were right. Kon-el is my favorite DC character, and he's been treated like shit by Lobdell ever since the New 52 started. However, if he is Kon-El and they DO end up killing him, I'll be even more pissed (I liked bro Supes).
The only problem with your theory is that we do indeed have a "young Superman" already: Kenji Kong, or whatever the name of that Communist Chinese Superman is.
Gabriel Lopez
I'm glad to see that they finally revisited him. I was pretty disappointed that no one immediately followed up on this setup by Johns, because otherwise it seemed like such a pointless tease.
Robert Garcia
Yeah, I recently re-read Geoff's New 52 Superman run and the biggest reason it felt so truncated was the Oz subplot. Really felt like it went nowhere.
It's really hard to tell what ideas were planted by design and what ideas were just appropriated later down the line. I almost don't want to know since they're doing a pretty good job of making Rebirth look like something that had been gestating for a while and wasn't DC editorial hitting the panic button.