Did you like his contributions to the MCU or are you glad he's gone?

Did you like his contributions to the MCU or are you glad he's gone?

The first Avengers movie went better than I expected, maybe because of him. The second one was shit, maybe because of him. Agents of SHIELD is a cynical money-grab that sucks heinous amounts of dick, probably because of him.

Ehh...I appreciate some of what he did, but I'm glad he's gone

Avengers I is good, it's all i have to say

Some artists don't just make pictures, they make an image. His characters images left dents, scratches and bruises. They fade. Nothing broken.

Real question is, did he make anything you liked at all?

I love Avengers 1 still but you could tell in Ultron he didn't care anymore. Either that or there was more studio notes.

Glad he was there but glad he's gone now. Wouldn't mind seeing him return but I'd rather he tackle something else besides Avengers.

I enjoyed the first Avengers but can never forgive him for the atrocities of the second. My theory is that the very tight schedule of the first prevented him from going full Whedon.

I think it was important that he set up Avengers 1 to be what it was. I can basically forgive him for Age of Ultron because of the excellent platform that Avengers brought to the MCU. It's what allowed Ant-Man and GotG to be made into actual movies.

He literally raped my childhood.

Similar to JJ Abrams with Star Wars and Star Trek. He did a good job at making a difficult concept work, but I'm glad he's moved on to different things because the style he did the films in can get bland when you see them in a sequel. One film is definitely enough.

avengers and AoU are basically the same fucking movie and both are mediocre as fuck

This.
Watching the first one again after the second it was easier to see how Whedon could've fucked a lot of things up, but for some reason didn't

I like his contributions to the MCU but I'm glad he's gone.

>Nothing broken.
Except Quicksilver

He made AoS non canon, so people with taste (like myself) will thank him from here to eternity.

When will this meme end?

Immensely glad, he contributed nothing positive to the series.

Avengers 1 lived up to the hype. He gets props for that. It was a big movie that I was convinced would fuck up (because lets be honest outside Ironman 1 none of the phase 1 movies are that great) but it turned out to be one of the funnest movies of all time.

Clearly he couldn't handle the pressure on him to deliver another one after that, and for that I feel for him, but I'm still glad he's gone.

I don't resent him for it though, not many directors could handle that kind of pressure.

I want the fucking ginger cuck dead. His contributions were fucking shit, and i hope he gags to death on anitas strap on.

AoS? It could go on forever, like many fanfics do.

Thanks for Vision and Scarlet Witch, but that's all.

Enjoyed both films.

In not being an unrealistic spaz whenever possible, mainly just appreciate how well done they are compared to actual garbage like Fantastic 4.

I enjoyed both Avengers films for what they were but I can't shake the feeling that we'd have gotten better movies from a better writer and/or director. Both films were incredibly Whedonesque and, frankly, that's not a good thing.

I like some of his contributions, but I'm glad he's gone. He was great with dialogue and characterization, but not so much with action or pacing. I liked Civil War much better than either of the Avengers movies.
He didn't like the studio forcing him to set up future films in "Age of Ultron," which happened anyway and I think it was worse because he did it under protest. Which strikes me as an absurd thing to resist for the first film franchise that's a combination of four other franchises.
Civil War, by contrast, used that obligation to advertise other movies to enhance its own story.

>He was great with dialogue

Rewatched Thor 2 and avengers 2 and while Thor was better than I remembered avengers was so so bad. Whedon did some cool things, but man does he drop the ball ok dialogue and characterization. Russos are extremely better at both.

>le_quippy_feminist

Yes I'm glad he's gone.

I liked him a lot. He gets a really disproportionate amount of hate, which I feel has less to do with his work and more from saying feminist stuff on Twitter.

I strongly suspect it was the micromanaging hands of the studio that resulted in AoU's problems, with the movie being somewhat salvaged at the sake of Whedon's nerves to the point he hadda bail.

The first Avengers was exactly what the franchise needed to show off what a cinematic universe could do.

I enjoyed the second one enough, more than most people here. That being said, my biggest problem with it is what it could have been and overall I'd still consider it a disappointment. I'm not thrilled about having already wasted Ultron, but I don't think there's anything AoU did that can't be repaired later if they want to.

Overall, I'm glad he's gone. I don't hate him or his movies, but I think there are better options out there for Marvel.

He didn't even make AoS
Also every movie or show ever made is a money grab

Yeah, it's just pathetic when any fan of superheroes or blockbuster movies is able to enjoy corny dialogue.

Russos don't write the dialogue in their movies.

An important Thing to remember when making comparisons is that Whedon wrote and directed the movies he worked on, while TWS and CW were directed but not written by the Russos. Markus & McFeely wrote all of the Captain America movies.

He'd be ideal for Spider-Man. Russos/Markus/McFeely are better with serious stuff but their banter is just lazy.

Enjoyment isn't indicative of the dialogue quality. I enjoy corny puns, bit I realize that they're often bad jokes.

This is from a review I once saw:
>"As far as my feelings on the Russos helming A:IW, well, Joss Wheddon said that helming the Avengers films was an endurance trial, that takes superhuman stamina, so it makes sense that they got two directors to helm the biggest movie in the series. While I have all the confidence in the world that the Russos will deliver a great film, I still think that they should let Joss have a pass at the script, not to alter the plot of that movie in any way but to add his own unique brand of dialogue to it, wich gave the Avengers their very funny, entertaining and distinct voices in his movies, making the dialogue scenes just as entertaining as the action ones."
Do you agree?

Yes
Yes

He did a great thing in Avengers 1, he respected the source material and balanced it well. He was writer and director of a large cast in a block buster movie. In 2 Marvel and himself wanted it bigger and better, but there aren't many people in the world that are up to writing and directing something like that and that is fine, he found where his limit was and it was below AoU.

Everyone says the Russo's saved the MCU, but what they really brought was a cooperation and Joss is used to having a lot of creative control on his projects. Civil War had 2 writers AND 2 directors, not just one fucking person doing it all. Ant Man did this as well, two writers redoing Wrights script and Reed asked all the cast what their opinions were (which is why we had Hope as a major character, Lily said she could do more).

The thing the MCU has going for it is GOOD cooperation, this isn't writing by committee where a bunch of businessmen pick out plot points and get a writer to follow it, this is Feige managing to find people who care about it and are able to work together.

Hell, the Netflix writers/directors of all four shows are in the same building so they walk into each others rooms a lot to bounce ideas off of each other. Doubts it's completely like that for the movies but it definitely happens. The Russo's went to Reed to see what he was doing with Ant Man and ask how he should be handled.

So ultimately what Joss did was bring together the MCU as a cohesive story but he doesn't really belong in this new era of the MCU where everyone has to share

It's what got Perlmutter out of the movies, praise be Whedon

God no.

One of the best parts about the Russo's is that the characters each have very distinctive voices and every bit of dialogue isn't just a handful of witty one liners that don't mesh with the actual characters.

The Russos' usual writers accomplished everything I liked about Whedon dialogue without its excesses. Besides, Whedon and Marvel had such a bad breakup I don't think either of them want to bring him in just to play script doctor.

I would be ok with him being an 'executive producer' which means they don't do much but pitch ideas/a few changes. I mean, I feel the Russo's took a lot of ques from him. Whedon really made sure the team up moves were a huge deal, then you look at the airport scene and it is full of them. Airport scene is MUCH MUCH better than anything Whedon could have done, but a lot of the grounding was based on The Avengers movies.

Avengers 1 was good and launched the series with a good momentum but that should have been his last contribution

It's hard to say because the marvel movies are such company movies and the avengers are especially so. Marvel has proven its willingness to fire directors who don't tow the line.

That said, I can't imagine whedon doing a better ultron. The studio maybe forced ultrons shitty face, but whedon has never done a non-quippy villain. Even if whedon had been allowed to go "darker" the way he supposedly wanted, ultron still would have been quiptron and therefore shit, because the things that make ultron work are being cold, terrifying and implacable and movie ultron was none of those things

>Whedon and Marvel had such a bad breakup
nah, they just agreed it was better to part ways. They have never said a bad thing about each other. The most that has been said by Marvel is to praise the Russos on taking over for him.

A better question is, would the MCU be screwed if they didn't find a great team of directors like the Russos? How many other directors can handle that many cast members? I'm sure the solo movies would have been find without them, but the huge team ups?

Even the "lowest" forms of entertainment require a certain kind of skill.

I'm not a huge fan of Whedon as a writer. He cares more about his characters having smart mouths than personality. And uses character death as a plot device.

But I agree he should do some minor work on finished scripts. The dialogue he writes is more human and relatable.

>because the things that make ultron work are being cold,
Are you thinking Terminator? Ultron is never cold, he is full of burning rage.

Having Tony make Ultron and not having him quip would miss the point of Ultron. He's not mean to be cold or unfeeling.

Avengers 1 lived up to the hype, AoU did not.

I don't hate him as much as Sup Forums does, but I'm glad he won't be doing Infinity War. He definitely couldn't have handled it. I actually really like Joss's more serious scenes (all the Vision stuff, Cap and Tony arguing at Clint's house, the dream scenes), but his jokes are really obnoxious most of the time and ruined any tension AoU could've had. I don't understand why he falls back to his wacky comedy so much when he does drama so much better. If he dialed down some of the comedy in AoU, the movie would've been much better.

I doubt that Whedon would have declined to work on the director's cut of AoU if he left on such amicable terms

>He cares more about his characters having smart mouths

I wish that had never been pointed out to me. It kind of ruined watching Firefly.

I don't think Marvel would have offered it to him. The thing with a Directors Cut is that it would act like a retcon and would change the context of the future movies. There haven't been any directors cuts, this is the only movie people wanted one for but he was probably not allowed it.

That said, I doubt he wanted to do it. He was exhausted and just wanted to retire for a couple years. Has he done anything after? Not only was he exhausted and stressed out after AoU but all his feminazi friends threw him under the bus. He may still be waiting that out too.

Am I the only person who likes Whedon's dialogue?

They made the movies more fun and actually FEEL like an actual comic book

His dialogue is one of the worst parts. Every characters sounds like a conduit for Whedon-speak rather than having their own voice. It wasn't so bad in the first but in AoU it was unbearable.

I like it a lot. There's complaints that all characters have the same voice, and while they do all become more quippy they all clearly have defined personalities and beliefs that differentuate each other. He's also good with seeding lots of little bits that pay off later, and 99% of the time I find them genuinely really funny.

He gives them repertoire, which most writers overlook. If someone does something earlier in a story, they should bring it back up. It's what people do every day. At work, someone does said thing, people reference it until it becomes an inside jokes, that inside joke evolves etc, etc.

Language was a funny joke. But I'm glad it lasted one film cause I can't stand co-workers that still do the same joke meme every time they see each other at work. FUUUUUUUUU

>FUUUUUUU

... Tell me about it

I think we can safely say it could've been way worse
Cobsidering how, by his own admission, he was stressed out during the production of AoU I'm surprised it still turned out at least half decent

Glad he's gone. Based Russos are a thousand times better. Captain America Civil War is way better than both Avengers movies.

how would you like to work under Perlmutter? Thanks to him no future directors have to work under the tight jew

I like the first Avengers, The second was a disappointment but not awful. Considering it's Whedon and the only other thing he's done I'v ever liked is Firefly he stepped up his game considerably in comparison to what he usually puts out. I guess that's a compliment. I mean it seems like he is capable of improving, even in Avengers 2 he corrected or tried to correct problems he had in the first Avengers he just made more mistakes and maybe doesn't know how to handle a story with so much going on.

The only decent thing he's ever been involved with was Angel and apparently he barely even worked on that. Avengers 1 after watching it once, really doesn't hold up at all. Avengers 2, I honestly can't even finish it. He's just so goddamn boring and generic that I end up just walking away to do something else. He also doesn't know how to create serious moments.

>He's just so goddamn boring and generic
It* was just so goddamn generic and boring

all this Sup Forums.. I guess that's ok since he branches both. But his X-men comic run was really good, he showed an understanding of the characters that morrison lacked. And finally took them back to space, space is where I love my X-men, their best stories are there.

Also, he did a good run of Runaways, not quite as good as BKV but pretty damned great. Sup Forums hates both those authors so I don't get how they like Runaways

...

Avengers worked for what it needed to be, and I think Whedon was a good choice to get that off the ground since the franchise was just picking up at that point. However, he dropped the ball on AoU and I'm glad he's gone. Whedon works better on his own solo projects and is too up his own ass about his brilliance that he clearly didn't want to cooperate or take into consideration what the ongoing franchise needed or what the fans wanted out of the movie.

A lot of people blame it on executive meddling, but a franchise this huge needs consistency and a common goal. The Avengers movies especially are supposed to be the cornerstone of the MCU, tying together all the loose threads and plotlines and character arcs and merge them together for a bigger story. Whedon outright ignored what happened between the two Avengers movies. TWS was supposed to be huge in changing the MCU, and AoU did the bare minimum in acknowledging it happened at all. Probably because of his hateboner for Bucky, which is kind of ironic because Bucky is the kind of character he'd love if he were a chick.

CW did a pretty good job at catching Whedon's fumble and acknowledging the inconsistency of how the ending of IM3 wasn't even addressed in AoU, and the consequences it left with Tony and Pepper's relationship and having it actually matter in the storyline. Collaborative directors and writers are essential to the MCU now, and Whedon doesn't fit into that.

>In 2 Marvel and himself wanted it bigger and better
He actually wanted it smaller at first but it just got bigger because that's how it works.

Avengers was shit, people refuse to see due to the hype/marketing it has had
AOU is the biggest piece of shit capeshit ever produced, it's bad as Elektra

I don't buy the "executive meddling" excuse. I highly doubt any executives asked him to have everyone fuck around in a barn for 30 minutes, or give Ultron teeth, or shoehorn in half baked bible references, or have Black Widow hot for Hulk dick, and so on.

In point of fact, execs told him to get rid of the thor pond thing and the farm thing. And yet Whedon still had the freedom to leave his bullshit in.

>Avengers was shit,

Yeah it must be shit if it's consistently in the top 5 of Sup Forums's MCU movie list...

Because Sup Forums is so well known for its amazing taste. The board likes MCU Thor, thats enough to ignore any opinion they ever have on movies.

The fact that he keeps moping about how everything he makes is shit makes me think that Whedon keeps trying to one-up himself all the time and not realizing that's basically impossible until the end when he actually has to finish the project. I don't think he realized the collaboration part of all this though.

>MCU movie list
>implying that's any sign of quality

Execs wanted pond, not farm. His far BW and Hulk shit overshadows everything, but the Cap-Tony stuff was a perfect setup to civil war

I loved both of the Avengers movies. I thought the second was even better than the first. I thought Civil War was a bland mess with very poor characterizations and it made me really doubt the Russo's ability to handle Infinity War.

I'm glad Joss is gone because the entire experience sounded pretty stressful for him, and I'm looking forward to more creator owned work from him.

What are you on? I thought each of Whedon's characters had their own unique voice, and even their own unique sense of humor that clearly differentiated them from each other. The Russo's dialogue feels more interchangable and bland by comparison for the most part.

One of the thing Whedon's dialogue did really well was sell how close and friendly the Avengers have become. People complain about the quips but the way they joke around with each other is exactly how a group of friends actually act, or at least my friends I suppose.

The Cap-Tony setup was actually just coincidental according to Markus and McFeely. Just happened to work out.

I don't know. A lot of the scenes he went on the record for fighting to keep in the movie are the ones I think we're the weakest.

The barn scene was shit.

>coincidental
yet it couldn't have happened without the two avengers movies, according to them their interactions didn't matter?

that's bullshit. They lifted heavily from Whedon's interactions in AoU, that was the start of the characterizations

From everything I've heard Marvel had no plans to do Civil War until they saw the dailies for the brief fight between Cap and Tony in Age of Ultron.

They wanted the pond and threatened to cut the farm (which already got a bit neutered because of execs) and the dream sequences Wanda gives the team if he didn't do it. So Joss filmed a 15 minute side plot for the pond that the studio ended up cutting out. Additionally to make things more difficult, the Studio only gave Joss a day to film each of the dream scenes, meaning he had to cut content from them in order to have enough time to set up and film each of them.

>The barn scene was shit.
agreed, but there needed to be a cool down scene, a regrouping scene. Hawkeye needed a scene to make him a person, and tony-cap had to have a scene. This allowed it. Some of it SHOULD have been cut, but there needed to be a breather

And when Feige heard the announcement for Batman V Superman.

so you are saying Joss was the one making all the tie ins to the other future movies and the studio was telling him not to? Get fucked you shill

wow
you couldn't be more a cuck
pathetic

The farm scene was also hurt because Joss had to rewrite it to accommodate the Thor pond story which then ended up getting mostly cut.

That was a big part too. It was that sort of one-two punch that made them go "I think we can pull this off!" Unfortunately I think the MCU needed one more film to properly set up things before they could actually do Civil War. Tony's sudden change from his staunch anti-Government stance to waving the flag for the Accords really makes no sense, same with Widow after that scene she had in front of the Congressional Panel in Winter Soldier.

Where did I say that? I said the studio was forcing in plot points to tie into future movies even when they didn't fit within the movie.

I agree that the first Avengers movie lived up to the expectations, but let's be real, a lot of that's due to the very low expectations most of us had, and were happy enough to just see them all together on the screen. I went in with 0 hope of it being good, and ended up thinking it was great. On the second watch though... Jesus. The flaws shone through. Turned it off after 30 minutes or so.

I'm pleased with what he did, I guess, but I'm eternally grateful that he won't have anything more to do with it.

There will be future tie-ins. The thing here is that Whedon simply didn't have the skills and/or couldn't compromise properly with the studio to create a good and cohesive way to tie things up.

>Tony's sudden change from his staunch anti-Government stance to waving the flag for the Accords really makes no sense, same with Widow after that scene she had in front of the Congressional Panel in Winter Soldier.

Actually Tony was waving back and forth since Avengers 1.
>never do it again
>blow up me
>I'm going to get you
>I'm going back to avengers
>I don't know what I'm doing but I have to save the world
>fuck me.....
>This needs to stop

Cap only changed for his bud buddy

Execs wanted the Scarlet Witch vision with Heimdall, they didn't care about the rest.

The issue is that Marvel had no clue what they were doing after Age of Ultron. They wanted him to create a new storyline, while he was already filming the movie, that would remove a main character from the group so that they could go off on their own side plot that is not at all related to this movie, in order to vaguely set up future movies without having any specifics of that movie. I don't know about you but arguing against something like that is totally reasonable. He did it anyways and even filmed a huge 15 minute storyline that introduced new elements of mythology to the MCU but it freaked out test audiences so they cut all but 1 minute of it. If you want to make a change like that do it during the writing process, not while they're already filming the movie.

Tony Stark had a strong record of not trusting big government bureaucracies throughout the movies and has been established as not wanting the government to have control over him or his tech. Now at the flip of a switch is ready to give all control over himself and The Avengers to a UN Panel. It's such a drastic change of heart that comes out of nowhere with no real sense or motive behind it. People accept it because everyone already expected him to be for it because of the comic, but the actual character in the movies is not one who would have made that decision.

The Hulk and Widow pairing is stupid as fuck and came out of nowhere, so I can't say I'll miss him.

>The issue is that Marvel had no clue what they were doing after Age of Ultron.
They're winging it the entire time. Why else would the Tesseract suddenly be the Space Gem instead of just the MCU's version of the cosmic cube?

Maybe the casting of James Spader as Ultron.

I loved the retcon with the scepter turning into an infinity gem. I think that might've been the first instance that kind of showed that they're just kind of making this shit up as they go along.

It was set up pretty clearly in The Avengers. Pay attention to how their relationship develops in it next time you watch it. Additionally, the big payoff to their relationship was changed by the studio. When Banner shows up to help Widow escape, she tries to convince him they need the Hulk but he's scared too hulk out after what happened in South Africa and just wants to run away with her. Instead of pushing him down the shaft she was supposed to tell him him that she was lying about how she felt about him, that she's a spy and it's her job, that she was just trying to better control the Hulk. Banner gets so hurt by this that he ends up Hulking out. That's why at the end Hulk turns off the screen when she's talking to him in the quinjet. However execs didn't think it was very 'hero-like' of Widow and changed it.

>People accept it because everyone already expected him to be for it because of the comic, but the actual character in the movies is not one who would have made that decision
You think any of these people read the comic? No, the bought his deliverance of the role. He had PTSD since IM3 and he SOLD it in CW.

It was a tacked on story, and that is why they needed RDJ to pull out his A card, not his shit he did in AoU

Fuck you, Spader was GOAT. If it was based off Pym;s brain everyone would be shitting their pants

People didn't have to read the comics. The general public was pretty aware of it due to Marvel's PR at the time. Lots of my non-comic friends knew Stark was going to be pro-whatever, and the media lead-up to the film's release sort of reinforced that.

I will admit RDJ delivered an tremendous performance and I loved him in it.

He was good for what he did, namely mindless spectacle with a lot of witty banter.

But when it came to telling an actual story, he really sucked at doing that. God, that entire Ultron thing was bursting with missed opportunities and wasted potential. Makes me sick.

Since the stakes got higher and the characters should be more than just clever mouthpieces, I'm glad he's been replaced by the Fantastic Four (The Russos, McFeely & Marcus).

Those guys have a better grasp of balancing drama and humor.

dude what I was saying was that I love Spader's performance as Ultron.

how did you infer that I hated it.

I cannot un-imagine Spader's voice for Ultron.

sorry, nuances get lost in text. His voice was great, but yeah, many lost opportunities. The world now things he's terminator...