Why couldn't Europe build a better fighter?

Like a cheaper and better fighter like the F-15E or the F-16?

The Eurofighter is fucking fucked up. It's even worse than the F-35.

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f35.com/global/participation/turkey-industrial-participation
youtu.be/KOswfrc7Xtg
wikiwand.com/en/TAI_TFX
defensenews.com/story/defense-news/2016/04/26/france-dcns-submarine-australia-shipbuilding-hollande/83562234/
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because euros are shit at modern warfare and the attendant technologies tbqh

Because you're incompetent without France.

>Because you're incompetent without France.
Why didn't France want to lead the European fighter project?

At least Europe is now planning a drone program.

Could rip off the Russians' designs.

What would you do with it? What difference does it make?

best eurocanard is best!

pay for one, get two!

The eurocuckfighter is a good aircraft, but it plays in the same league of the F-15, which means by modern standards, is obsolete.

>What would you do with it?
Bomb ISIS. Bomb other third world Muslims.

>What difference does it make?
The more planes you have, and the cheaper they are, the more you can bomb the backwards enemy ISlamists.

>in the same league of the F-15

The F-15, the F-16 and the F-18 alongside the A-10 are the backbone of America's airforce and this will remain this way for the next 20 years.

Obsolete versus what exactly? The Russian fleet of two PAKFA's and China's 5th generation meme plane?

Seriously.

Since Europe doesn't really do "Muh Stealth", it might as well do "Muh Maneuverability".

Russian planes are designed to be quite agile, and European planes should be built to outfly and outfight them.

It has been a huge logistics clusterfuck, all the suppliers and contractors are dispersed along various countries. Acquiring spare parts and repairing items took long time and maintaining&acquiring planes became more expensive. Usually when a plane enters production, it becames cheaper. But typhoon became more expensive.

Remember the time when the Brits had to cannibalize their early production Typhoons for spare parts?

Also the Eurofigher squadrons had less flying hours than planned, they had less training and thus less efficiency.

The same shit allso happened with Airbus A400M.

There is a logistics issue, planes not delivered on time, became more expensive than planned and the project struggles.

Even the F-35 will be more successful than Eurofighter. I'm glad Turkish Air Force stayed away from that European piece of junk.

The real question is, how good are Europe's planes against the most modern Sukhois?

>that European piece of junk
Because the F-35 is not a piece of junk, only more expensive

>mysides

You don't need fighter planes to kill cultural marxists in your society.

the Eurofighter has been in operational service since 2005 and combat since 2011

the F-35 might never get operational and will surely never ever see combat (because it's a piece of shit and costs waaaaaay too much to risk losing even one)

so i'd say they're very different

>Remember the time when the Brits had to cannibalize their early production Typhoons for spare parts?
Remember the time it happened to the F-35?

freerepublic.com/focus/news/2460295/posts?page=21

When Euros joined operation against Libya in 2010, they had huge logistics problems, they ran out of spare parts and munition in a very short span of time.

With hippies in European governments and in management of these project, every military programme in Europe will fail.

>Even the F-35 will be more successful than Eurofighter.
Well, if the F-35 ever gets operational in 2040, we might see if it actually works.

>"Muh Maneuverability"

>missiles just fuck my shit up

>the F-35 is bad

when will this meme

>MUH DOGFIGHTS!!!
The F-22 can kill EIGHT (8) F-15 Eagles without the F-15 pilots even knowing tthere was a plane in the air around them

The F-35 is a ground attack aircraft with equal stealth and missile capabilities

What happens to Eurofighter after Brexit anyway?

F-35 is cheaper than Eurofighter per unit. It's the development program that is ridiculously overpriced.

>no more tomcats

;_;7

There are already +130 F-35s operational right now, and they are partaking in Red flag exercises today.

Meanwhile Eurocucks were only able to produce 400 aircraft so far. Like it or not, F-35 is vastly superior to Eurokek fighter.

Looks pretty nice to me. 10/10 would fly.

the development program is over inflated but its also listed in a dollar figure adjusted for the specified year of end of development

its basically listed with like a decade and a half of negative interest rates inflation

Fighters are boondoggles for defense firms, who cares if they perform.

The future is drones, drones and more drones.

>Remember the time when the Brits had to cannibalize their early production Typhoons for spare parts?

Yeah, we do that all the time. It's called being cheapskates. We've done it to our Apaches, our Tornadoes, our Vulcans, Valiants, Spitfires, Camels...

We never order enough kit, then use the stuff we have too much. We are chronically over-stretched, and therefore the easiest option is to take something that works and replace something that doesn't instead of waiting for a new part. Doesn't make the Typhoon shitty.

Fucking roach.

Why bother, you don't need fighters to bomb sandniggers, the only scenario where fighters are needed are against Russia but in that case the world is fucked anyways

US Air Force markings

Your're only 10 years behind guys! You can do it!

what's going to happen to the F-35 now that Turkeys going full islamofascist?

>turkey was supposed to buy 100 F-35s for a cool $16bn, deliveries beginning in 2017

>Turkish Aerospace Industries was supposed to be one of two facilities in the world where F-35 center fuselages would be built

f35.com/global/participation/turkey-industrial-participation

>It's the development program that is ridiculously overpriced.

Wait until you see what the life-cycle cost is. Last year, flying the F-35 cost just over $40,000/hour, which is actually a major improvement from the year before that.

The 22 is quite a bit more, but it

(a. Fucking works and
(b. Is an air superiority fighter, so you wouldn't have it loitering on standby for ground support, flying missions to drop millions of dollars worth of smart bombs on a few toyotas, etc.

>100 F-35s for 16bn

is that even worth it for us?

>No more standoff missile

I agree with this, USA rarely uses jets anymore, droons took over 90% of operations, cheaper, safer and can even say tis more effective, jets are for flexing muscles only, evrything falls on pilots skill anyway.

THey wanted to, but the other members didn't want to go with the French project. So Dassault made their superior plane on their own and the other European countries miraculously managed to build their own""""plane""""

>The future is drones, drones and more drones.

Says the country with no military.

Because we can produce a fighter that fill perfectly our needs from the engines to the avionics.

This aint an early cold war jet which becomes outdated in 5 years. Cannibalizing a decade old airframe tell a single thing: failure.

Europeans have major problems with the defence projects and logistics management. This is what happens when leftists and hippies seize the control of your government institues.

>There are already +130 F-35s operational right now
Operational means having a plane fly missions, not "claiming it is operational". The F-35 won't fly any missions for many, many years.

The F35 total cost is 1.5 trillion, with a t. You argument is invalid

>evrything falls on pilots skill anyway

Dogfights are a meme. Only way they ever become relevant again is if someone comes up with an effective aircraft point defense system.

>So Dassault made their superior plane on their own
Which one was that? I only know of the Rafalle, which is even worse than the Eurofighter.

>So Dassault made their superior plane on their own
Are you referring to the unsaleable plane?

What's difference between Slovakia and Slovenia?

Why is no one buying Gripens? They seem rather expensive for what they provide. F-16s continue to do the job well.

Ironically the YF-23 that the air force passed up over the YF-22 was better than all of these.

They should bring back the YF-23, update it a little, and then sell them to Europe.

The reason for this shit is because of insider deals and feeding defense contractors more money than they should. It goes overbudget and produces a cucked fighter jet because they wanted Even More money than they got.

Goddamit where's the professionalism that built the SR-71?

>I only know of the Rafalle, which is even worse than the Eurofighter.

Top kek. Your thread is shit and your military can't even sustain a "fleet" of 12 Eurofighters. Please get out

Rafale is better than the Eurofighter and the Gripen, what are you talking about?

Atleast no turbo expensive rafalecuckplanes that get shot down by 30 year old german F-4

they are meme now when you have 20km up to 100km range air to air missles, you dont even have to see the target to shoot it down.

The world's best fighter.
That it never got.

Because euros and their stupid tailless delta aircraft are the garbage heap euro bullpup rifles of the airplane world.

Muh Missiles
Muh Radar systems

We just focus on nullifying stealth and putting long range missiles on our planes.

Missile technology, Drones and possibly railgun technology is the future.

The US and Europe are both at a stage where they can deliver a payload tailor made to any situation to almost anywhere on land or in the air.

Eurofighter is more expensive than Rafale but whatever.

Germanfags shoud not be allowed to talk about military

>Turkeys going full islamofascist?

nobody will care about that when that commie nigger leaves the presidental office.

Turkey has already set up factories to build F-35 fuselage and P&W power plants, US will earn $10 billion.

Trump is a clever guy and he won't fall for leftist-hippy rhetoric. He'll work closely with Putin and Erdogan.

We are going to get F-35

But we might have some pilot issue after the purge. They got rid off 600 of 1500 fighter pilots in the Air force.

MUH TOO UNCONVENTIONAL

Seriously, fuck the people who picked the 22.

Rafales are beautiful planes. That's why I trust French engineering more than British or any other european engineering.

You truly are our greatest allies.

Grippen and rafale are failures, both jets have severe perfomance limits, they cant par with US or Russian jets.

>Rafalle, which is even worse than the Eurofighter

Ayyy.
Netherlands found out it's the best
Switzerland found out it's the best
Even US pilots...
Each airforce tested it found out it's the best fucking airplane ever, the maneuvability, the acceleration, the comphy seat, the crazy range and radar...

Last airforce tested it was the Indian, they ordered 36.

Here's video of Rafale lock dead an F-22.
>muh vectoring nozzles
youtu.be/KOswfrc7Xtg

>5th gen

>why europe couldnt make a better fighter
except they did its called the Rafale

F-35 aka "i'm a NATO bitch"

Lockheed-Martin "I need Turkey to maintain my engines" F-35
Lockheed-Martin "I need US permission to maintain avionics" F-35

(((operational)))*

*only if you change the definition of operational to "it gets off the ground and looks nice in promo material"

Not attacking you, but you have not said why.

after reading a while in that thread i'm realizing that aswell.

>Germanfags shoud not be allowed to talk about military
sadly true, i think we only have 2 airbases left.

>sadly true, i think we only have 2 airbases left.

And it's mainly USAF bases

Yeah, but I'm used to our prices where development cost is like $10 bn so even 60 bn for R&D seems like a whole fucking lot to me.

There are so many cucks around who will buy F-35.

It's a new aircraft. The maintenance cost will be further reduced and it will be similar to F-15. Don't see how that's a problem considering how F-35 is a lot better.

What the fuck are you talking about? The Eurofighter is actually the only good thing we ever built together, in war-games a few years back one took out two F-16's above Scotland. Granted the F-16 is old but it does what's expected of it without breaking the bank.

What are all those holes?

When are the poos going to come into this thread and talk about how their mig-29 beating literally everybody

Yeah? What limits? Your bias against the countries making them?
Both the Rafale and Eurofighter are on par with the Super Hornet. The US only have two superior planes : the F22 and F35, one having yet to enter mass production.
The closest equivalent in Russia is the SU35S, which still falls short, and only available in low numbers. Their PAK FA will never be mass produced.

...

I'm hearing TAI is tryna build a stealth fighter in 3 different configs, is that true or just turkish meme dreams?

> Says the country with no military.

Meh, who cares ... they'd just be fighting kike wars abroad, while the kikes immigrant army destroys us from within.

>nations around the world try to build most complex cash sink
>war breaks out
>everyone realises volume matters more than uber high tech and goes back to building previous-gen fighters
>the first nation to realise putting up swarms of drones weighed down with the longest range, most effective missiles they can build wins

Fighters are a meme, these days they are just launch platforms for missiles.

totally agree

Germany had a few Mig-29. Some badass flying skills, but generally, they are pretty bad planes.

This is also why Russia doesn't use the Mig-29 in Syria (yes, it is an air superiority plane, but it could still be used to bomb... but it is not).

>in war-games a few years back one took out two F-16's above Scotland

Which variant of F-16 did Eurofighter beat?

I bet it's F-16A or Block 15 or something.

F-16CCIP, F-16Block50+ can be a decent enemy to anything Europeans can throw at.

The Turkroaches shoot down Russians at least

...

This chart is retarded tbph

That's because the dumbasses failed to learn from history and wanted a small-ish fighter that performs every role. That always fails. The people pushing it are claiming that it will take over the role of the A-10 for fuck's sake. No, it won't.

one example of something french doing something good does not mean its the best

Yes, they are working on Turkish stealth fighter project, prototype will be around before 2019

wikiwand.com/en/TAI_TFX

Entire programme cost: $120 billion

We will see if they keep going or cancel it.

Because it's a joint venture between several countries that constantly disagree

Should have just done it ourselves desu

Look, there are three countries that can build a top notch modern fighter.

US
Russia,
France

Other countries can make a okay fighter

Sweden
Germany
UK

Germany and UK thought they could work together to make a top fighter
Turns out it a shitshow.

>The Turkroaches shoot down Russians at least
Didn't they use a surface missile?

Hurl enough moderately effective missiles at a target and even the most expensive, complex, flying subsidy will get hit eventually.

The reality is so long as the missiles you launch cost less than the aircraft you take out, you win.

I was watching an interview with an F-22 pilot several weeks ago, and he let something slip. He said something along the lines of

>The enemy pilot won't even know I'm there until my missile explodes right next to his cockpit.

Considering that stealth air-to-air missiles were an idea that was being looked into during the '90s, I expect that we have them now. Otherwise, that pilot's statement doesn't make sense as anything other than hyperbole, because I guarantee that the missiles that we know about are something that just about any fighter would see coming at it.

How much longer until some manlet numale leaf brings up the Avro Arrow from 50 years ago and tells us it would beat all of these planes if only the big bad USAF didn't cuck their defense industry?

reminder that in a competition to see what the better plane was to replace india old airforce with the better plane , the rafale won against : the Eurofighter , the F-16 , the F-18 , the JAS-39 and The MIG 35

>US
>Russia,
>France

US... hahahaha, the last two you made (F-22 and F-35) are complete disasters. You are still using F-16s and A-10s for the most part, both designed in the 1970s based on 1960s tech.

Turkroaches shot one missile at that rooskie bomber and it fell apart like it was a anime cartoon

what about these? legit or shitty knockoffs?

Italy can also produce okay fighters.

But the hardest part is always the engines. China can't into engines and that's why they needs russian ones.

>defensenews.com/story/defense-news/2016/04/26/france-dcns-submarine-australia-shipbuilding-hollande/83562234/

French tech surpassed the Japanese and German and won submarine contract with Australia.

Let's face it, we are technically superior to rest of Urop

>Their PAK FA will never be mass produced.

I'm not defending the Serbian guy as I like Rafale but mass producing the PAK FA may never have been the intention.