Now that the dust has settled...

Now that the dust has settled, can we agree that the Bucky plotline was shit and the Russos should have stuck to the Registration debate as being the centerpiece of Civil War?

>the Registration debate as being the centerpiece of Civil War

No, the registration plot was the worst part.

No, that's dumb.

Bucky himself served as example of what happens to a person when their choices are taken away completely and their actions controlled by an organization. He fits right in as an extreme case against the accords.

So, I'm wondering, could Zemo's plan have still worked if Bucky hadn't been captured? Say, if Bucky had killed the guys sent to bring him in and escaped before Cap got there. Or if the guys had killed Bucky before Cap could save him. Would he have still been able to tear the Avengers apart?

The registration was only a catalyst for the rest of the film. It's precisely what made the Civil War event so obnxious and transparent; it was shoved in every single book, in every single discussion and it forced writer and editors who radically alter on-going storylines for the sake of drama.

Basically, it had all the things I hate from a comic book event. Which is why I'm glad this film feels like a mini series related to the event, but not the event itself.

If Bucky was never found, Zemo would probably keep framing him for stuff until he was.

If Bucky was killed, he could use that as a wedge.

He won

Other way around, mate.

^^This^^
Bucky's case is thematically relevant to the debate going on, because the way they dealt with him is symptomatic of the fear and paranoia about enhanced people that was spreading. The fact that rather than get someone who could reasonably bring him in for trial, like Iron Man or War Machine, they decided the best course of action was to send a kill squad after him, is very telling.

no the registration was shit and Bucky is cute

the registration debate is shit and they should have dropped or minimized it to focus on the bucky plotline and other actual superheroics

>If Bucky was killed, he could use that as a wedge.
Be a shame to let that EMP device he made for the attack on the Joint Counter Terrorist Centre go to waste though. Makes you wonder if he had other items he had prepared for other eventualities he didn't need to use.

>Marvel tries to rip off the Watchmen with super hero registration, pussies out and has no idea how to handle their universe moving forward and drops the concept after Civil War

Yea, no.....it's best they tied the fighting to more than just sign or don't sign.

does anyone want a scene of smilin' steve and broody bucky hitting the town and pulling bitches right and left?

and then like, steve fumbles his EVERY TIME and bucky is like JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, STILL

Exactly. Political debate alone is meaningless and theoretical until they have a concrete and emotionally-charged situation that HAS to be dealt with that conflicts with the political debate at hand.

Bucky serves as the theme of accountability and the safest hands being their own. On his own, Bucky is safe and harmless. Absolute control over his choices and missions at the hands of Shield/Hydra was what made him a killer. The government that wants to take control over him has no idea how to properly handle him or his situation, which leads to him immediately being Zemo'd once he's in custody. He was never a danger until the Accords imposed themselves on him, because they were sloppy and thought they knew best despite not actually having a solution. Law and authority may say they are right, may have good intentions, but we can clearly see that bureaucrats often do things in ways that are actually against the best interests due to red tape and agendas. The UN itself has a horrible history for international crisis.

Bucky himself proves personal accountability by his choice to freeze himself at the end and wait for a cure. He's the physical embodiment of Cap's argument, his emotional investment in Bucky's safety aside.

Pls, take your homo shit elsewhere.

No, the registration subplot was even worse and just forced into the movie because RDJ was acting as an attentionwhore and demanding the same screening time as Chris Evans. So they instead made it into a Captain America vs Iron Man movie, when it should have been a Captain America looks for Bucky movie all along. Instead, we got a mess of a movie which felt like two different movies mashed up together.

they did. it was also tied to defying government orders on the word of a brainwashed assassin that there's six more even worse than him about to be unleashed on the USA, or ignoring what the assassin says, and playing ball with the government for now in exchange for the support and resources needed to build an EDF capable to standing up to extraterrestrial threats

you're a girl

If Bucky had been killed, then he'd use that to fuel his plan, but Cap would be the irrational one. Zemo doesn't have an overly complex plan, so much as he's just REALLY good at improvising plans.

The Sokovian Accords weren't about registration, they were about policing significant groups from hopping boarders and acting without authorization from the local government. Specifically the Avengers.

Black Panther's father was part of drafting them and T'Challa goes about acting of his own will anyway.
I know it seems like T'Challa has signed them and is on their side but he himself makes it clear he wants to simply kill Bucky, he does not care about due process. It's not even self defense, he intends to practice homicide in front of everyone and walk off.

This is how serious the Accords are taken.

If you cut Bucky you cut Black Panther and Zemo and the elaborations of the deeper threat HYDRA posed before and now. They did a superb job further surfacing and wrapping up the loose ends TWS implied.

More importantly the lack of clarity as to the purpose of the Accords and the confusion as to what they were meant to do and do in practice is very evident from threads like this.

As a centerpiece instead of a background catalyst the Accords would be laughable as a motive for genuine conflict let alone an actual physical fight to resolve a political matter.

It's one of the chief reasons Civil War the comic was so braindead. That and clone Thor, Negative Zone prison and Skrull Invasion. The Millar and the writers should take lessons from the Russos, tidy up your shit instead of over bloating it.

No, just that the Bucky a cute shit should be left to husbando threads. Not this.

It seemed clear that Zemo was rolling with whatever he found at each step of his plan and went from there. His plan didn't need to work out exactly how it did, it would have worked out some other way in the end. The Accords just helped speed shit along.

Civil War was one of the best crossover events Marvel has ever done and the film completely butchered it.

>so much as he's just REALLY good at improvising plans.
Some of it had to be preparation though. He had an EMP device. That must have taken some time to build.

>Now that the dust has settled
>Can we all agree that
>Where were you when
>How did they get away with this

Nah, Bucky can't be killed because he's meant to take over as Captain America.

>More importantly the lack of clarity as to the purpose of the Accords and the confusion as to what they were meant to do and do in practice is very evident from threads like this.

I think that was very deliberate and a very common shady political play. They sprung this on the Avengers three days before it was to be ratified, and that was a super thick document. There was no telling what was being pushed through along with it, which is a huge underhanded political tactic. Steve was right to not trust it from the beginning, especially when it involved sending half the Avengers to the Raft without due process or lawyer. The Accords were never meant for the Avengers to agree with certain bullet points but not others, the ambiguity of the power it had over them and the specifics that entailed was the huge red flag that the Accords were corrupt from the start.

Good one, m8.

>Now that the dust has settled
Back to Sup Forums with your dumb shit you go

>Civil War was one of the worst crossover events Marvel has ever done and the film completely fixed it.
FTFY

please don't fall for such cheap bait it's not even edible it's just a piece of plastic on a hook

no
the movie should have removed Civil War crap and registration crap
and made Serpent Society and kept more Bromance with Bucky

because Civil War is terrible

sorry user. You are wrong on the internet. And for that you should die and are totally lame.

they can skip him and go to falcon

Sebastian Stan has a 9 movie contract, so I doubt he's going away anytime soon

This, and what's sad about it is the movie trusts the audience's attention and comprehension skills and the audience fails.

There is a specific scene of Zemo at the airport after having released Bucky on the others overhearing the news with no report of Steve's confirmed death.
Knowing there's a possibility, however slight, that Steve is mobilizing with Bucky after what Zemo said to mislead them if either survived, he visibly reacts and gets up to move forward with the new plan.

Mind he was going to get the tapes anyway, but you can tell the urgency he shows is because he needs to stay active and adaptive.

Zemo could not and did not rely on one plan or things to just going his way as is illustrated by the very first scene introducing him torturing Colonel "GoToHell".

As an aside I found it a little sad he deliberately traumatized that nice room service woman. He could have told her to send someone else to clean up the room. What an ass.

>He could have told her to send someone else to clean up the room. What an ass.
But then that someone else would be traumatized.

I get that hating the Civil War arc is a meme but the only complaints about it basically amount to:

>not muh Iron Man
and
>not muh Captain America

All the characters involved act like idiots and the political commentary is both one-sided and as subtle as the Hulk.

Well, yes, but she didn't deserve to directly learn what she had unknowingly helped orchestrate after bringing a murdering terrorist breakfast every day.

The political commentary was two-sided but self-contradictory because the writers didn't even agree on which side was right. They also avoided explicitly defining what it was so that pro-reg books could make it sound like the best shit ever and anti-reg books could make it one of the worst hitlers ever made.

They should just have stuck doing a proper Cap movie instead of Civil War.

But they made Civil War because Feige felt threatened by BvS but that movie fucked itself over.

>They should just have stuck doing a proper Cap movie instead of Civil War.

Giant-Man was better than anything in Winter Soldier