when you realize every "intellectual" comic writer is actually a pseud.
what made you fall for the gaiman/ellis/morrison/moore memes Sup Forums? You literally read pseuds who studied basic philosophy and metaphysics when you could be studying those works in depth yourself
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The pretty pictures
But that's hard.
But I don't read Morrison because I think he's smart.
He's not.
He's a drug-addled hippie who writes entertaining dialogue with creative plots.
...
Casual fag when it comes to non batman morrison and the other writers. Explain please?
Foucault is absolutely awful.
Everything is subjective, science isn't real, your political beliefs are just as objective as any study.
He's done more to destroy the social sciences than any other figure of the 20th century. That's why they're filled with mostly postmodern left wing trash, who justify themselves by citing his idiocy.
Comic book industry content dichotomy:
banal capeautist material that may either by dreadful or comfy (usually the former)
OR
artist using the medium as an excuse to exhibit his art, usually stream of consciousness or otherwise surreal narrative which primarily serves to linearly bond the art together and accentuate it with an atmosphere or theme
Comics are never philosophical or thoughtful in any analytical sense
Pseudo intellectualism is more a staple of modern writiers like Scott Snyder than Morrison or Moore. Morrison and Moore's cape comics are just edgier versions of Golden and Silver age stories, the majority of the 'deconstructive subtext' has been projected by critics.
i'd assume that op is talking about stuff like sandman/the invisibles/watchmen
and yeah maybe they're not the smartest things around but they still have a good story behind them
there's no literature that's entirely intellectual because ultimately for people to read your shit you need a narrative which is inherently anti-intellectual, if you want pure philosophy you can get books on that but i can guarantee you'd probably have more fun reading something with a story behind it
I'm not sure what you think it is, but here on the internet psued is short for psuedonym
its like people only read one or two of foucault's essays and dismiss it as trash. discipline and punishment is great look at how institutions are modeled off prison systems
>Everything is subjective, science isn't real, your political beliefs are just as objective as any study.
No wonder I hear about him a lot on the internet.
He destroyed social science. Whether there is some value to be surgically removed from the garbage is irrelevant in the face of all the damage he did.
you could argue post-modernism as a whole did
even still, guys like lyotard still have something to say about those unquantifiable facets of life
you should read A Contract With God
>I read Foucault once
God, please, no Foucault here. I read comics to escape from him.
samefags
Because you've deluded yourself into thinking that a comic of in depth philosophical banter would even be fucking interesting.
Literally any text can be interesting if presented well.
The problem is most writers which want to posit something philosophical (comics or otherwise) just want to ram things down the reader's throat.
It my opinion it's why The Dark Knight Returns is more interesting philosophically than Watchmen, because Moore can't help himself with his "look at all the literary illusions I'm using; I'm smart; study me!"
Whereas Miller shows an important theme of his story is shown simply in changing how Batman's outfit is throughout the story.
>/lit/ is leaking
I come to Sup Forums trying to get away from this crap
>You literally read pseuds
As opposed to figuratively reading pseuds?
Regardless, OP is a fag.
No. Peer reviewed experts in the social sciences read one or two of focuault's essays and then warped them to promote whatever social petard they were looking to light up in the first place.
It's how you get from the Medical gaze, which is based on personal observations of medical diagnostics, but no expertise, to the Male gaze, which is based on inventing motivations for filmmakers and viewers, to the modern "I feel oppressed. Derrida tells me that's all I need to prove it", sack of crap.
Has anyone tried? Pic vaguely related.
Better /lit/ than Sup Forums.
What interests you might be boring for someone else.
Comic writers aren't supposed to be intellectual, they're supposed to write good comics.
I find Morisson to be a great comic book writer. His plots are inventive and his character development is pretty great. I don't care if he doesn't fully explore the medium to develop philosophical concepts as much as you'd like, he does it as much as he thinks it is necessary to touch on the themes he wants, and then he moves on, because a comic book isn't a novel, and he has other things to worry about when writing one.
You want truly pseud, hack as fuck writers? Look at Japanese mangakas.
Agreed.
I used to go on /lit/ quite a bit but I prefer discussing comics than novels. I did get to have a couple of good conversations about comic books on /lit/ though.
Has anyone had a good discussion about anything on Sup Forums?
>What interests you might be boring for someone else.
No doubt, I don't disagree with that sentiment at all.
>Comic writers aren't supposed to be intellectual, they're supposed to write good comics.
There's no reason one can't be both.
>I don't care if he doesn't fully explore the medium to develop philosophical concepts as much as you'd like, he does it as much as he thinks it is necessary to touch on the themes he wants, and then he moves on
I like Morrison's stuff too. Don't pretend I was ever trashing Morrison. Sure some of his stuff is quite on-the-nose. I was kind of saying that before when I mentioned The Dark Knight Returns vs Watchmen. It's the show; don't tell.
While saying this I'm not trying to trash Watchmen I just find it kind of amusing that The Dark Knight Returns is more subtle in its themes than Watchmen.
John Carpenter's The Thing.
Arnold movies.
Occasionally you get a good LotR thread free of GoT shitters.
I think that's it.
>Occasionally you get a good LotR thread free of GoT shitters.
Can you actually get good Lord of the Rings threads when autists go:
>we're talking about the movies not the books
Like, I LOVE the Lord of the Rings movies, but the richness and depth comes from the books.
>there's no literature that's entirely intellectual
There is. It's called engineering textbooks :^)
I thought you were defending OP's statement, I'm sorry then.
And I agree wholeheartedly with you, TDKR is indeed more subtle in touching upon the themes it does, simply because it is more worried with being a good comic first, and being an philosophical statement second.
Yes, there's no reason a comic book writer can't be an intellectual, but he's a comic book writer first and foremost. A good comic book writer with absolutely no interest whatsoever in intellectually stimulating topics can still make amazing art, wheres an excellent philosopher and academic with shit sequential storytelling skills will probably make a very boring comic book.
Horror movie threads are tolerable once in a blue moon.
Um, yeah. I guess I just read comics for enjoyment. As an adult, comics can be more enjoyable to me when they have at least a little sophistication.
But when I want to learn philosophy, I study philosophy.
Why can't I read both comics and philosophy separately? OP talks like it has to be one or the other.
I've seen it done. Usually when both parties express your same sentiment.
It's very rare, especially now that Sup Forums has been nothing but a hive of shitposting for several years.
But, am I a bad person for saying that I would prefer Orcposting and Battsposting more than 90% of "on-topic"shit that gets posted on Sup Forums?
Yes, you are.
Those people are the cancer that are killing Sup Forums with gordon-rape-posting
Star Trek threads are still good there
>engineering
>intelligent
it's learn to paint by numbers
you're stupid
>I can't read
>I guess I just read comics for enjoyment. As an adult, comics can be more enjoyable to me when they have at least a little sophistication.
Yeah that's why I really loved Ostrander's The Spectre because he had a background in Theology. So there's a solid background for religious themes
Why would anyone read that
You're a dumb bitch
>Look at Japanese mangakas.
Examples?
More writers these days need varied backgrounds to inform their work.
Engineers think they're smart
Still more intellectual than any kind of fiction.
>Meanwhile all Johns reads is comics and the back of cereal boxes
This leads to the obvious question. What if you gave Thomas Pynchon a Superman series?
I think he'd make the greatest Luthor ever with the opening rant.
Not sure if:
>stop liking things I don't like!
Or:
>stop disliking things I like!
Or is it more about your own lack of self-esteem. The fact that calling user a "dumb bitch" on the internet made you feel superior? Or did you need to let off some steam?
Regardless you're acting like a child and Sup Forums is an 18+ board.
>this entire thread
Plus Lois Lane would fetishise the fact that Superman is an alien.
>would read/10
>who studied basic philosophy and metaphysics when you could be studying those works in depth yourself
Using that logic, why should anyone read literary fiction that is supposed to represent a "philosophical" concept when you could read explicitly non-fiction "philosophy" books?
Most comics are shit, but most art and entertainment in general is shit. This does not deny the cultural impact comics and other media have upon society. Niether does this deny the rational "intellectual" kernal to be found within some comic books. Analysis upon theme, tone, form, character, structure, impact, and so on are not voided by the medium in which they are represented. Besides, the majority of media (including literature, movies, video games, and so on) with "philosophical" components rarely ever completely present "philosophical" concepts in their entirety, anyways.
Either way, the problem isn't whether or not these "intellectual" comics are ""intellectual"", but with the problem of "intellectual" anything. Something being ascribed as being "intellectual" automatically posits itself as being above, so to speak, that that is not "intellectual". Most of """""intellectuals"""" are pseudos because most intellectuals are idiots who believe they're smarter then they really are.
I recommend Kill Six Billion Demons. The mystical world-building directly inspired by theology with heavy fan involvement that K6BD bases itself upon is great. And the format in which it is presented (comic with short stories) is something that is necessary for what the author seeks to achieve.
killsixbilliondemons.com
And then Luthor breaks out into song.
I feel like Pynchon reads a bunch of comics, and hope he is just waiting for DC to ask him to write a series. He is the man who asked Frank Miller to do the cover to Gravity's Rainbow.
I would read it too. But I would wait for the accompanying morrison comic about Superboy prime reading the pynchon comic and being really confused, where all the references are explained.
Luthor + the Music Meister!
>Pynchon writes Luthor making a big ass breakfast
FUCKING FUND IT
It's time to make Supes great again, boys
>accompanying morrison comic about Superboy prime reading the pynchon comic and being really confused, where all the references are explained.
Fuck yes!
I'm so fucking hyped for this comic that is never going to happen.
>superman gets co-opted into a military program because his boners can predict alien attacks from guys like darkseid or the thanagarians
I thought we were talking about indie creator owned comics for a minute.
They really try to hard to appear smart and deep but end up coming out as shit.
I think that should be Jimmy Olsen.
Also, Supes goes back in time to hang with Benjamin Franklin and a bunch of whores.
And Jerry Lewis and Bob Hope show up.
i would dig that
what would the pynchonian conspiracy be?
i feel like it would be some shit like the outside of the omniverse is leaking in, and what lies beyond it?
>Are you afraid of bacteria mercy?
>Bacterial infestation is what wraps us, blankets us. It makes this raw milk curdle. It is the other. The outsider. The independent variable from beyond the stars. It changes the pure white milk into the fatty glop of cheese touching the edge of my omelette.
>But the ham anchors into the earth. The pig, the past, the haramburgler. Salty and rich. The cheese cannot move the trajectory of ham. It can only sit tenuously above it. Mocking it, impotently.
>You see that shine, mercy?
>It can sizzle and pop like some paranoid garlic revolutionary, but no mongrelized objectivist pablum can reduce or sidestep. It's a punch to the jaw.
> Now pick a cereal. We'll make a super weapon out of the toy surprise.
That their entire existence is a comic book that's going to be made into a movie, and that their every action is dictated by idiot editors and executives, who are trying to hit the right cultural touchstones plot points and still satisfy the ultranerd fanbase..
it's so good damn
So fucking good!
Love, can someone phone Pynchon and Morrison and get them on this?
It would be even better if the Morrison came out first and wasn't actually really related to the Pynchon one at all.
Perfect. I can't remember what passage that is parodying but it's too perfect.
>inherent vice but with green lantern as bigfoot and green arrow as sportello
>GA gets GL stoned and they bust up a drug ring in the process
>"It creeped him out, the way it just sat there looking so plastic and harmless among the old-time good intentions of all that downtown architecture, no more sinister than a chain motel by the freeway, and yet behind its neutral drapes and far away down its fluorescent corridors it was swarming with all this strange alternate cop history and cop politics—cop dynasties, cop heroes and evildoers, saintly cops and psycho cops, cops too stupid to live and cops too smart for their own good—insulated by secret loyalties and codes of silence from the world they'd all be given to control, or, as they liked to put it, protect and serve."
Holy shit