Can we all agree this was a failed experiment? No one but hardcore SJWs want this diversity crap...

Can we all agree this was a failed experiment? No one but hardcore SJWs want this diversity crap. Most comic book readers are white males. They voted with their dollars and the buy comics with white protagonists in them. Old Man Logan out sells All New Wolverine by like 20k each issue. Asian Hulk, Black America, Minoriteam, and all the other diverse books are tanking. The only ones doing decent are Thor and Ms Marvel, and even Thor is sitting at 38k a month. I'm sure the real Thor making appearances helps.

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comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-04.html
comicsbeat.com/marvel-comics-month-to-month-sales-march-2016-spiders-dont-live-in-a-cesspool-but-in-dead-pools/
viewcomic.com/page/2/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

>and even Thor is sitting at 38k a month
>acting like that's a bad number in this industry
lol

It took a nose dive in sales since issue 1.

>acting like that's a bad number in this industry
lol

I will be honest Cho Hulk is pretty fun, and there's hint that Banner will be back sooner or later.Though I probably like it because Greg Pak was writing Hulk and Frank Cho was doing the art
However I will not argue pushing the SJW agenda does not help the numbers, the proof seems to be in the sales

So... did Marvel announce anything today like the rumors said?

Miles book is doing better than most books
Ms Marvel is doing good
Thor is outselling every solo book that's not ASM
Black Panther is selling well
As is Chulk( Y'all seem to forget how bad Hulk books usually sell)

The only ones that are doing poor are shit like Red Wolf, Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur and Spider-Woman

Question is, when will Marvel get it? Or how long until Ike takes a hike?

they all do

> it's pandering when it's not to my likes

This isn't DC, you'll do as you're told

>nose dive
>stating static numbers
ok

>even Thor is sitting at 38k a month

29 Mighty Thor 6 52,538

Because the white male lead books like
Hyperion
Carnage
Nova
Venom Spaceknight
Spidey
Ant-Man

are doing any better

I'll also add Hawkeye and teams like Web Warriors to this

Aren't hillbilly serial murderers from Brooklyn a minority?

Well yeah, every book does poorly if it's not a #1 or a popular franchise. Has nothing to do with content or quality and the sooner an idiot like OP figures it out the better off he'll be.

That it kept Marvel in the headlines means that they'll consider it a win regardless since it was always about attention whoring and never about diversity.

If people are curious here are last months numbers, don't know if these are exact or if they include online sales but still
comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-04.html

Hawkeye's already cancelled although they've hinted at a Kate-centric relaunch, which will also probably not exceed 12 issues

>first non Batman book at around #50

Every time.

Those are sales only to comic book shops. Comixology does not publicly publish their data.

Here's month to month deterioration: comicsbeat.com/marvel-comics-month-to-month-sales-march-2016-spiders-dont-live-in-a-cesspool-but-in-dead-pools/

They haven't done April yet

>Dark Knight
>Batman
>Harley Quinn & Suicide Squad
>Batman TMNT
>Harley Quinn
>Harley Quinn and Harley Quinn
>Detective Comics
>Harley Quinn
Holy shit

I think that Comixology should be made to record it's numbers. I personally do think there is at least a decent chunk of sales coming from the digital market that may help numbers be better represented

yeah if it's a batbook it pretty much is almost guaranteed to be seller for DC. It's really kind of sad

>Harley Quinn and Harley Quinn
What even is this?

I think he meant Harley Quinn and her gang of Harleys

I can't stand any of the Harley Quinn titles though, they aren't funny and it isn't even Harley or at least the Harley I remember liking

Harley Quinn and her Gang of Harleys

Maybe but I see why they don't. Apparently it won't usually mean much in keeping a book alive anyway given how things get paid out to creators.

yeah I guess, I just find the online market could possibly be handled better. Especially considering it seems to be where single issue comics may ultimately need to move to and stick to collected for physical copies

And squirrel girl, and Spider-woman, and Howard, etc. Only a handful of titles are selling decently, the rest are reaching the cutoff lines at alarming rates.

>even Thor is sitting at 38k a month
What? The lowest its sold was 52,538.

I've never understood why people give fake numbers when you can just look up the real ones. What do you gain from lieing?

I can only guess that the only people buying these are autistic collectors who would buy anything as long as it's their favorite character, same goes to Thor and Spider-Man. Everything else that had sales were #1 issues.

>Kate-centric relaunch
No wtf

how else am I going to ship Clint and Kate together if Clint isn't gonna be in the book

>Moon Knight in the top 20
Feels good

Marvel was a mistake
-Jack Kirby

YO DAWG WE HEARD YOU LIKED HARLEY QUINN SO WE PUT A HARLEY IN YOUR HARLEY

...

>X-Men ranked below Rocketeer in terms of how well-known they are
kek

Stop posting troll threads that exist to do nothing more than bash comicbooks, badmouth the fans, and promote another unwelcomed asshole Sup Forums conversation on the wrong board.
If you are arguing that it is a valid Sup Forums thread subject that you really really need to whine about how don't want to read some comics, then you shouldn't be on this board in the first place because you shouldn't be reading at all.
Didn't you know reading introduces new concepts and ideas? You can't complain about that when you read.
Grow the fuck up and shut up about your little neoNazi butthurt. We aren't going to burn our books at your rallies because you insist so much.

Harley Quinn has 6 (or more? fuck if I can remember) ethnically diverse psychos-in-training who act as her neighborhood watch. They have a book. Because that prints money, apparently.

>Stop posting troll threads that exist to do nothing more than bash comicbooks, badmouth the fans, and promote another unwelcomed asshole Sup Forums conversation on the wrong board.
>If you are arguing that it is a valid Sup Forums thread subject that you really really need to whine about how don't want to read some comics, then you shouldn't be on this board in the first place because you shouldn't be reading at all.
>Didn't you know reading introduces new concepts and ideas? You can't complain about that when you read.
>Grow the fuck up and shut up about your little neoNazi butthurt. We aren't going to burn our books at your rallies because you insist so much.
Sorry friend. You dont get to dictate whats worthy of discussion.

Report the thread, hide it and move on. For your own sanity, as well as others.

>Harley Quinn has 6 (or more? fuck if I can remember) ethnically diverse psychos-in-training who act as her neighborhood watch.

This is the worst idea I've ever heard.

I honestly like the new take on the characters. Never gave a shit about Marvel until recently.

It's fucking nothing.

>Nova
>white male lead

>Hyperion
>#2 is below 20k

>They haven't done April yet
And ComicsBeat is late at that, especially Marvel. Also the author of the breakdowns of Marvel's monthly sales is French and not fluent in English, so expect typos.

Clint's off New Avengering with ewing.
He'll be fine.

>Most comic book readers are white males.
Not anymore. You can keep living in this fantasy bubble, but it's not true.

>there are people giving serious responses to this thread

Marvel's diversity means same old capeshit with minorities. Vision is something I'd call diversity, but shit like Thor feels the same old thing paraded in the name of diversity.

I refuse to read any DC until they make Wally white. Wasn't Rebirth suppose to go back to Pre-52 continuity? At least Marvel is making new characters instead of shittying on the OG characters by changing their race.

Have you been under a rock lately?

to a degree. explain?

In Rebirth one shot, Wally was shown to be suckered into Spped force. Now he's back, and black Wally was retconned to be a distant cousin of original Wally, just sharing the same name.

The New Avengers are the best yet. 10/10 team.

Wow, can you get any edgier?

Will we see more of White Wally or is Black Wally going to be shoved down my throat forever?

they're cousins named after the same Great Grandparent, Black Wally will be with the Teen Titans and Wallster will be with the Titans. They're blatantly ignoring the Wolfman Era because literally everyone is fucking tired of it.

The off chance that whoever sees the fake numbers will instantly believe it and not research.

It happens and succeeds more often than you think

So I have nothing to worry about? It's safe to go back and read DC?

well that depends, can you stand Brett Booth and Andrew Dahlhouse?

It's annoying with comiXology that tell you what won but not how much they won by

I'm fine with sitting through shitty comics as long as the characters aren't be fucked with.

That's the biggest problem with Harley
Honestly I like most of her shenanigans but she's meant to be a joker supporting character just make a new randumb psychopath for these story's.

As long as you don't read the rebirth special yes all signs indicate that most dc comics will be getting better after rebirth all the complaining is because of dc pulling there stupid attempts at trying to explain retcons in universe.

Well as long as your not a Superman reader your probably fine then

One thing people need to consider is that the sale numbers we get are NOT the real sales numbers, and it doesn't take digital sales into account.

I'm guilty of that, but at least not of closing the thread too soon

From what I understand, without the Star Wars comics and the constant #1 relaunches and variant covers, Marvel wouldn't be selling anywhere near what they are right now. They really under advertise the actually good books in favor of pushing a book for it's diversity quota or controversy, which is obviously working so far but it'll eventually kill sales in the long run.

They're clearly outselling every other publisher by a long shot, but they can't get enough interest in actual series for anything to sell after the first few issues.

Black Panther #1 - 250k sales.
Gwenpool #1 - 100k sales.
Spider-Gwen #7 - 60k sales.
Spider-Man #3 (Miles) - 59.7k sales.
Mighty Thor (Jane Foster) #6 - 52.5k sales.
ANAD Avengers #8 - 51.9k sales.
Spider-Women Alpha - 50k sales.
Silk #7 - 43k sales.
Spider-Woman #6 - 39k sales.
All New Wolverine #7 - 38.1k sales.
Captain America Sam Wilson #8 - 31k sales.
Ms. Marvel #6 - 29.8k sales.
Captain Marvel #4 - 25.1k sales.

Black Panther and Gwenpool are #1s, which naturally inflates the sales figures. The rest are NOT - and none of those figures are unhealthy. Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, and Sam Wilson are a little low, but this isn't factoring in digital, which would put them squarely in the acceptable range. Add in those digital sales, where women-oriented titles regularly top the charts, and it seems like Marvel's made a smart play to expand their market base.

And for all the bitching about SJWs ruining Marvel, this used to be DC's THING. Before the New 52, they had the more diverse universe, hands down - that loss of diversity drove a lot away from DC, many anons included . Oracle? Walking again. Catwoman, Starfire, Power Girl? Forget being strong and independent - [s]sluts[/s]WOMEN in the spotlight! Racial minorities? People WANTED Static Shock, Firestorm, and Blue Beetle - but they got shit writers and no support, and folded within a year. (16 issues for BB, but still.) Oh, and how many people miss Solstice, Cassandra Cain, Kaldur'ahm/Aqualad, Jefferson Pierce AND his daughters, Crispus Allen, Jakeem Thunder, Natasha Irons, Shiva, Obsidian, Scandal Savage, Knockout, Renee Montoya... Before the New 52, DC had a talent for building up the world and the legacies - and that meant they did better with diversity by default.

And that's what Marvel's been doing the last few years. Miles stepped up after Peter's death. Kamala Khan is a fangirl of Carol Danvers. Sam Wilson and Jane Foster have always been strong supporting characters for Cap and Thor. Vision has always been about creating family. Complain about SJWs all you like, but there's a reason DC Rebirth is leading off with Ryan Choi, Aqualad, Jaime Reyes, Jessica Cruz, AND Wally West. You want stories people enjoy reading, you want more than just a white guy in a mask. You want family, community, and legacy. Like it or not, that has always included diversity - which means that as the stories move forward, so does the more diverse cast.

(Also, hell, I thought Sup Forums supported strikethrough tags.)

...

Man I have always said dc is better with diversity because they don't shove it down our throats but when you put it that way I realise that outside of maybe demon knights there really not that much anymore.

Wait are you saying Starfire wasent always like she was in red hood and the outlaws I always assumed they just changed her personality for the tv

>Most comic book readers are white males.
Actually, the vast majority of savvy comic book readers I know are black turbonerds. Anecdotal, I know, but just thought I'd throw that out there.

That said, they mostly like white heroes and I don't hear much about any black hero that isn't Black Panther or War Machine (a lot of them double as huge /m/ people.)

That....is not why it's a failed experiment.
It's a failed experiment because it was all forced and poorly written and cheap, like most everything Marvel has put out since Disney realized it would never make money again and was only for IP farming.

It wasn't bad because you might possibly have a triggered persecution complex; it was bad because even with white characters the series just wouldn't be very good because they were poorly written cash grabs by poor writers working in lousy conditions.

This. You fucking think anybody cares about your speshul snowflake tastes? There's a fucking reason Marvel is and always has been the market leader. Whiny little shits are easily replacable.

Marvel understands how to run a business, unlike DC who keep pandering to retards and tanking their company.

>not reading Ultimates.
OP confirmed faggot. Everybody move along, nothing to see here.

>only 12 #1s for Marvel
slow month I guess

...

Holy shit how ignorant are you? Wally is back in like, 16 hours. Rebirth is literally a White Wally story

Marvel's constant relaunches are already not seeing their numbers increase image way they used to. Whether they'll crash the whole industry again or it'll only affect them when things go tits up remains to be seen.

Starfire was rarely as bubbly and cheerful as she was on the TV series. Emotion was always a strong part of her character, though - she was frequently depicted as being an intensely passionate individual, in both love and war. And yes, she was less clothed than most, though it was usually presented as being extremely comfortable with herself and her body. (Though the titillation factor for the reader varied from comic to comic.)

Starfire definitely was NOT always like her portrayal in Red Hood and the Outlaws. Her initial portrayal, in fact, got the company a ton of bad press, resulting in some hasty damage control. (Scott Lobdell claimed that it was all part of the plot, but I'd bet money that management pulled him aside and told him to stop fucking up.)

We're getting some really good books

what's the fuckin problem

if Marvel's selling low then DC's selling worse, they're lucky if a store manages to sell double digits of their stocks.

You know what I love about that comic that was complaining about red hood and the outlaws.
He could easily have made it about gender it would be just as frequently posted and he would be making those sweet tumblr bucks but he had the integrity to say no this is not about gender both genders hate new Starfire.

We are burnt out onultiverse reshuffles just do a hard reboot.
Say this this and this are getting retconed and then continue on as if nothing happened.
Would that be so hard

*Burnt out on multiverse reshuffles

Wellll, he's getting the Tumblr love anyway.

Marvel has an aversion to hard reboots. Hell, X-Men continuity still includes Giant-Size X-Men #1, Mutant Massacre and Fall of the Mutants, from 30+ years ago. Magneto's still a Holocaust survivor, Punisher still went to Vietnam. Black Widow can still get away with being a Cold War trainee for a little while longer, but still.

Yeah I loved DC for their diversity before they slowly started including their silver age fetish.

Hell Ryan CHOI got his own series as the Atom and he was an asian successor to Ray Palmer.

Instead, before New 52 DC decided to kill him and thrust Ray back into his role. Fuck that.

As far as I can tell though marvel does not put so much retarded effort into explaining the second they do perform

maybe not a true majority, but they're definitely still the largest group.

Okay so I'm a white guy and am absolutely not an SJW or a feminist but I do like the attempts at diversifying the modern cast of heroes. I do think it's important for a kid to see themselves on a comic. And as long as the book is more like TAH and not Jane Thor or Angela things should be fine. I'm not the only sane one who feels this way right?
What pisses me the fuck off is that retarded people who have never read a Marvel comic in their life called marvel sexist and racist for not having enough diversity but when the books come out to address their complaints they tank because those same people bitching just like to bitch and had no intention of buying any Marvel comics and supporting the diversity changes they helped create. It's fucking infuriating because I do like Chulk and Sam Cap but their not getting support from the hypocrites who complained on Twitter because no one fucking reads comics. Instead casual SJWS are buying tons of Spider-Gwen and Ms. Marvel merchandise while the issues they buy of their respective series go purchased but unread because Tumblr told them those characters were hip and cool so they HAVE to like them giving Marvel more incentive to publish them.

why are there 4 fucking spider based superheroes in this group?

sjw shit aside who would think that this would be a good idea?

*Explaining the retcons they do perform

Fucking autocorrect

I´m more angry about the fact that both marvel and dc are in the quest to appear "progressive" keep portraying all the white male characters as losers that can´t get anything right without the help of a women.

it´s basically how women were represented in the 60s and 70s.
it´s just bother-line racist and sexist at this point

what kind of kid liked to read a story that constantly tells them that they are useless compared to women

Punisher was retconned from being a 'Nam vet in Rucka's run. And at this point Mags is running around in a de-aged clone body so sticking hard and fast to the Holocaust is starting to wear thin.

Every once in a while they will upgrade the characters, but only for their background/elements of their story that are too related to a particular historical period.
For example Ironman origin story was updated in the Extremis saga so that it happened in Afghanistan, while earlier it was in Vietnam

The real problem is that they are against rebooting completely the universe, so all the old stories are still true, and the biggest stories always have one or more cameos from other series, so you can't even use something retarded but "necessary" like "It was all a dream"

They could have rebooted everything with Secret Wars, that was conceptually Crisis on Infinite Earths, but they didn't have the courage to do it

The real reason I want a reboot is because I know that "Spidey was never with MJ" would hurt less then "Spidey was married with MJ but they retconned it because the Marvel writers have awful tastes in women"
Yup, I'm still butthurt about it

It's not a group, it's a promo for the ANAD lineup

ah thanks

I only rarely follow comics since sjw and liberals sucked out all the fun for me

What comics are DC and Marvel doing this in now?

Comic book nerds are impotent white racist misogynists. Got it.

I suppose we can go back to treating you all like the worthless shits you are, then.

We know your comic book companies already are.

every comic I read at least.
I randomly selected 4 different comics every two weeks for almost a half a year now at

viewcomic.com/page/2/

I got like a 4 out of 5 chance that they featured the very thing i described

spiderman is a good example of just that

Yeah, Marvel doesn't do hard reboots. Instead, they've usually utilized the "sliding scale" timeline, or soft reboots. They won't have events to explain every change, but you'll notice that Tony Stark was no longer captured by Vietnamese fighters, Charles Xavier didn't fight in the Korean War, the original X-Men no longer hung out at a malt shop or record store, etc.

Ryan Choi's removal as the Atom has always baffled me. You had a character designed by Grant Morrison, written beautifully by Gail Simone, widely accepted by everyone as a replacement for Ray Palmer, who was underutilized on a MASSIVE scale... And he's killed off after three years, so Ray can return in the New 52 for bit appearances in titles so far off the radar, most people probably don't remember he's actually back.

What the FUCK, DC?

Didn't realize his run had done that. I don't think that change stuck in the public mind much, though. And yeah, Magneto has been deaged a few times now, I think - he's just so tightly tied to the Holocaust, it's virtually impossible to untangle him from it. (As long as you want to keep him as Eric Lensherr, anyway. Seems like a good thread to point out that there are plenty of more modern genocides that a new Magneto could have arisen from...)

Yeah, it's nothing like the 90s, where the only spider-based heroes were Spider-Man, Scarlet Spider, Venom, and Spider-Woman Julia Carpenter.

Scott Lang is ok. I wish they kept more Ultimate Universe characters in ANAD though, like they did with Miles

Is GotG worth reading? I'm a huge Thing fan, also what do I have to read about Ben Grimm after Secret Wars?