Iberism/Hispanism

Iberism/Hispanism.

What does Sup Forums think of this "movement"?

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should be named Moorism

Should be named irrelevantism

It is fairly irrelevant but I'm still curious about it, especially what Spaniards and Portuguese think.

They are unable to think.

I wouldn't be so smug because in spite of their economic woes, next to both Spain and Portugal France is currently resembling a failed state in the midst of a civil war. Sort your own shit out before taking jabs at others.

If Portugal want to annex to the rest of Spain, its his historical right. They've been pretty reticent in the last 3-4 centuries though.

Seeing how the nations of Spain have slowly lost most of their idenities, I understand why they'd rather stay separated.

>its his historical right.
How do you figure? By virtue of Portugal being the elder of the two?

At least they can fight

>If Portugal want to annex to the rest of Spain
That will never happen we are proud of our history and country even though we talk shit about it all the time.

The Iberian peninsula is becoming more divided with each passing day. We will not see a United Iberia within our lifetimes unless something fucking crazy happens.

Hispania (Spain) is a historical and theological construct that dates to the Roman era, and as a fatherland of all iberians, it's commontly considered to have been born during the reigns of kings Leovigildo (political and territorial unity) and Recaredo (religious unity under Catholicism), during the 6th century.

The Muslim invasion happened. And what immediately started was called Reconquista for a reason.

The reunification of the lands, first Castila and Leon, then Aragon, then Navarra, Portugal, was the full realization of the Reconquista.

Portugal broke the norm with its secesion from the Monarchia Hispanica in 1640, which is the actual birth of Portugal as a nation based on the idea of not being Spain.

I'm proud of Portugal history as much as Castilian history. A union wouldn't change that.

Portuguese of the old country, what can you tell me of our pagan past? Where can I find more info?

That's my assessment as well, but do you support it?

Anything displaying the Double Headed Eagle is correct and righteous. All who oppose the Double Headed Eagle are enemies of Western Civilization.

If Spain EVER tries to fuck with Portugal, they're getting memed on.

>which is the actual birth of Portugal as a nation based on the idea of not being Spain.
Oh boy, here we go.

But this doesn't really answer my question. Why do you say that Portugal has an historical right to annex Spain and not the reverse? If you place the date of Portugal's independence at 1640, then it can't be that Portugal precedes Spain (I disagree with this date, for what it's worth). What historical right does Portugal have to annex Spain?

iberism is an old dead dream but our independence and empire are dead too so i guess whatever, inject me doc, take the nightmare away

i feel sorry for making fun of you, just a sad country you have nowadays.

Good luck. There's almost nothing except a handful of names, vague descriptions, and their Roman equivalents. Basques have the most "complete" surviving mythology.

I support friendly relations in the Iberian peninsula, but honestly I think they are too divided a people to form a union. They speak different (albeit similar) languages, and they have different legal systems with vastly different policies.

>le greatest ally meme
Portugal literally created the British Empire based on cuckery.

Portugal is Spain. Just like Catalonia or Castile. It's just not in the political union that is called "Spain" since the 18-19th centuries. But they're rightfully spanish in that Spain actually means Iberia.

We share language (mostly) history, culture, ethinicity, religion, empire, land, ancestors, etc. etc. It's like Austria to Germany, so to say.

Not going to happen.

Spain alone struggle to keep united, I doubt a union with Portugal could be possible

Ah, I see. You're using Spain to mean Hispania or Iberia.

The retards on Sup Forums think all hispanics are mexican indians

Didn't you know it's the same word?
Classical latin: Hispania > Vulgar latin: Spania > Spanish, catalán, portugues: Espana.

In English sounds different though, "Spain" is quite a weird word.

>Basques have the most "complete" surviving mythology.
That honor corresponds to the Cantabrians, I think. But I'm not really versed in any of both mythologies.

We would fight eachother and our relations would be bad after a while, like the UK such unions never work.
Is hard to find but you get some things here and there and its basically celtic gods.
>inb4 WE WUZ CELTZ

>this entire fucking comic
Top fucking kek. Most of it is downright lies and the rest is twisted beyond belief.

We fought for Portugals independence. We backed John IV from you evil spaniards.

Furthurmore the "european commerce" it refers to is your port of Gibraltar nothing to do with the Portuguese.

Try to come up with a more compelling argument than redditballs, manuel.

Yes, I knew. I'm just surprised because I was brought up in a Portuguese house and Spain means only one thing to us. We say Ibéria, not Espanha. Yours is an old definition that it alien to my mind.

As to mythologies, I'm not sure about Cantabrians. I know that the Basques have a surviving creation myth and many stories which should rather be classified as mythological than folkloric with clear pre-Christian origins.

All I know is that the Lusitanian mythos is gone. We know about as much about the pre-Christian worldview of the Gallaeci, but fortunately we can make certain connections between that and those of other Celtic peoples.

Where does the name Portugal even come from? Suebiland would sound cooler.

I don't think we'll ever be a single union, but I like my Spaniard bros, have met a few tourists and a few locals when I was the tourist.

WE WUZ WORLD CONQUERERZ N SHEIT

Portus Cale. Basically "Port of the Gallaeci," the Gallaeci being the people who occupied what is now northern Portugal and Galicia.

In antiquity it was Lusitania/Galicia/Ophiusa/Oestriminis.

>Galicia
Meant Gallaecia.

Not an argument.

>Yes, I knew. I'm just surprised because I was brought up in a Portuguese house and Spain means only one thing to us. We say Ibéria, not Espanha. Yours is an old definition that it alien to my mind.
In Spain is alien too. In fact many people believe that in the Roman times, Hispania and Lusitania were two provinces, one being Spain and the other being Portugal.

But then again, you asked me for historical rights and that's what I brought up these facts.

>Suebiland

But who was Lusitania?

Portus Calle, means "Port (of?) Calle"
Some people say Calle is a way of referring to the Callaeci, other people say it comes from the Greek word kallis which means "Beautiful"

>Not an argument.
Meant for

>But then again, you asked me for historical rights and that's what I brought up these facts.
I did. But surely this is to say that Portugal has no more or less rights than any other historical region in Iberia, no?

Most nationalist far-right here are dumb delusional national-catholics, and most of the time they are pathetic in all senses.

Still, they represent an ideology which in the past fought with incredible fierce against internationalism and even in the files of nazi Germany, so they deserve some respect at least.

Other than that, I wish we had a strong pagan movement trying to rescue or pagan roots, still present everywhere in the iberian península.

Also, there is the problem of race. I wish someone defended a passive ethnic cleaning. We need to get rid of non-european elements in the long term.

Anyways it's not as bad as you say. When you look at genetics we are very close to other europeans. It's not our fault the White phenotype is so weak that it only takes a mínimum amount of admixture to lose it.

Was Franco good?

I can't say I agree with your endorsement of abandonment of Catholicism. This was the driving force behind the Reconquista and Age of Discovery, not paganism. Maybe Spain has lost it but the Portuguese soul is still a Catholic soul, IMO.

But I agree with a crackdown on foreigners. Portugal has some colonial nigs but not so many that the native population is at any risk. I was shocked when I went to Barcelona, though. It is no less international in character than London or Paris.

Nice trips let's see what we don't share
>Language
Galician sure other spanish is just another latin language.
>history
We do have a similar history always fighting eachother and kicking spain when outnumbered in the middle ages good times.
>Culture
About culture we don't kill bulls for pleasure we have man fighting bull head on and no one dies.
>Ethinicity, religion, land, ancestors
Yeah from blonde aryans to moorish looking people but all catholic agree with this all.

No more or less, right. I in fact support a carlism, which is a reactionary, confederalist distribution of the nations of Spain, or what we used to call, until late 19th, "las Españas" (Spain in plural). Is in that frame of thought that I could speak about a Portugal annexion, more than some sort of bizzare "Iberian Union" with Portugal and "Spain", if you know what I mean.

No he was not. He was an atrocity. A manlet. A half moor jew.

Of all the men who were involved in the national revolution, they selected the last piece of shit.

I was waiting to see if you'd mentioned the Spains. I had a Valencian friend of the family who preferred this term. He was a staunch traditionalist and had thinking like yours.

Are you Basque or Aragonese, or something else?

isnt like "Portus Calle" yknow portus latin for port and calle greek for pretty

only communists support basque or aragonese autonomy

Christianity is still 90% pagan as it is. We just need a reform to get rid of the non-european elements.

As said it is disputed, apparently. I had never heard of the Greek etymology for Cale, only the Latin one which refers to the Gallaeci. I had only known the Greeks to call Portugal Ophiusa (Land of Serpants) or Oestriminis (Extreme West, equivalent to the Latin Hesperia Ultima).

>Not knowing that Catholicism is just another form of paganism
There is pagan traditions being celebrated until today in northern Portugal I've seen that is celebrated too in Galicia paganism isn't dead just mixed with catholicism.

I think it's clear that the Spanish user isn't some separatist, but a federalist or a confederationist. The Basques themselves were the most ardent Carlists so long as their fueros were protected, and the Aragonese were close behind them.

Castilian, Galician, Portugues etc., is pretty much the same language. You can't say is just another latin language like it was French. Maybe italian is closer.

But actually Castilian, Leones, Galician, etc. they are all dialects from the same hispanic vulgar language. Castilian took its phonology from Basque (thats why its phonetically simpler), and Leonese, Galician from Suebi and probably celts in the region.

But pretty much brother languages more than any other latin language.

I'm a mixure of Montañés (Santander), Puerto Rico (Caribbean, but second generations, my grandpas were from Santander) and Madrid. I'm consider myself ethnically and nationally a Castilian.

There's nothing to be ashamed of, IMO, that pagan traditions have been Christianised and continue to be celebrated. I say that as a faithful Catholic. It is like the obelisk at St Peter's Basilica. It is a pagan monument, but on its top is a cross, and as such it is Christianised and introduced into the Christian patrimony. Christ conquers all.

Catalonia, the Basque country, and Aragon were the strongest outposts of republican support in the most recent civil war

It's what I was saying. Just get rid of the semitic elements and we are fine.

Get rid of the semitic elements and we are fine.

The most recent. But the 3 previous ones was the oposite.
And in fact, from the Basques, only Vizcaya and Guipúzcoa were pro-Republic, Alaba and Navarra were Francoist minute one of the rebellion.

>muh kike on a stick
Redpill for you: semitic is not bad, most jews arent even semitic, and judaism is actually posterior to Christianism.

Aragon and the Basque regions, particularly Navarra, were also the strongest outposts of Carlism. I don't know enough about the Civil War to go into much of a discussion on this subject, but I thought it was common knowledge that the Basques were especially strong supporters of Carlism. The famous red beret is itself Basque in origin. The Carlist anthem, Oriamendi, is Basque in origin. Some of their most famed leaders were Basques.

Semite != nonwhite

Semitic is a language group. If Phoenicians or Carthaginians weren't white because they didn't speak an indo-european language, then Hungarians or Finns aren't white either.

That being said, any trace of judaism should definitely be excised from Christianity.

t. Catholic

>France
>telling anyone is irrelevant

topkek m8

youtube.com/watch?v=vq3vWInEhcE

Gora España ta Euskalerria!

You cannot get rid of the Semitic elements. They are as they are. God chose the Jews and I am only a man - I cannot question His judgment.

In any case, this is an argument I often have with neopagans and the like. I level no accusation against you personally, but often times these people are atheists in truth. They believe in no gods, and the question that Pilatus asked Christ - what is truth? - never enters their mind. That God revealed Himself to Semites first and, indeed, became Himself a Semite, neither adds nor detracts from my belief that He is the true God.

I know there is no hope for you. Your nationalism sentiment is irremediably tied with christianity and it's rotten universalism.

I tell you something: We will never be a true part of the european far-right if we don't get rid of that, and we are not going to do shit alone, ever.

Universalism, yes, but not in the modernist sense. It wasn't even a century ago that Pope Pius XII was calling your forefathers heroes for crushing republicanism, liberalism, and anarchism, and defending your Catholic identity.

To borrow from E. Michael Jones, ethnos without Logos is dead. All European far-right movements who think they can succeed without Logos will follow the way of the Nazis with their ridiculous paganist/Wagnerian confection.

...

A true european pagan, no matter where in europe, is always an agnostic. Paganism is a phylosophy, and it's part of it to recognize the incapability of the man to understand nature.

It's just that we don't need a god to justify or follow that phylosophy.

Still, as I said, most Christian morals and values, and even part of it's phylosophy and imaginary, are european. That's why I don't like to talk shit about christians (unless they still believe the pope needs to be relevant of course).

My hopes and my nationalism is eschatological. Mi reino no es de este mundo. You can play alt-Right and vote liberal masonic parties like Vox if you want.

But I tell you one thing. Christianism is the dam holding the muslim Invasion. Europe has no means of salvation.

Nazis weren't that bad desu. They still had substance. These alt-righters won't even dare to mention Christ.

>Paganism is a phylosophy, and it's part of it to recognize the incapability of the man to understand nature.
In this respect it is little different from Catholicism, except where you say "nature" we say God, and where you have some sort of deistic worldview, we espouse one in which God is an active participant, the Author, our beginning and our end.

But what is this philosophy? What is your moral law?

I'm not sure that I agree. Rosenberg was a lunatic that ruffled even Hitler's feathers and the latter instituted a policy of persecution of Christianity, specifically Catholicism, which is quite a strange strategy for a man who claimed to want to unite Germans.

But you're absolutely right about the "alt-right". And because they are so divorced from the Supreme Reality their movement will come to nothing. The only country that has any hope, from what I've seen, is Poland because the Poles have wisely established ethnic solidarity which orbits their Catholic identity. This is why, IMO, they are so resilient to the sort of secularist degradation that exists pretty much everywhere else in the west.

Vox is not even alt-right. And most of them are christians, just so you know.

The party I like the most is Democracia Nacional. Yes, I am aware they suck. Still, at least they have contacts with other european-far right parties and even when they want to rescue that catholic past and when they use it to revive the national pride, they know when to put religion aside.

I want Spain to be a part of europe, I don't want to renounce to that. That's why that strange thing they invented which is only applicable here and that paints Spain as some sort of unification force working for universal christendom does not work for me.

My moral law is based on my education and my instict, which is of course a result of my genetics. So responding to it, I already behave in accordance to nature.

I think trying to make any other justification beyond that is futile and unnecesary. I consider myself an animal being: I must do what feels good for me.

And before someone says it, no, rape does not feel good for me.

Vox is as christian as PP. And it's the most alt-right party you have in Spain right now: libertarian, socially conservative, nationalism, protectionism, euroschepticism.

DN is far right.

I think I can relate more to you than, for example, globalists or cuckservatives. I generally dont believe in democracy or political parties but of course, I support Le Pen, Brexit, Trump, etc. Diligentibus Deum omnia cooperantur in bonum.

As for Europe... I don't really see much future for the contintent. The UE has proven that Germany and the economically favoured nordic country view the mediterraneans (the true Europeans) as less than them.

But is this not a morality based on whim alone? If we allow that the basis of morality is education, instinct, and genetics, then we must admit that there is no such thing as a universally moral or immoral act. This is to say that while rape may be wrong for you, it is right for others in accordance with their own judgment. Do you not believe that if the act itself is virtuous, then it is virtuous regardless of who has committed it? And if an act is immoral, it is immoral regardless of who has committed it?

We don't fuck with them, so, no thanks.

>there is no such thing as a universally moral or immoral act

It is, if we admit our behavior is based on a biological reality.

Still, if a Wolf kills a rabbit, it's neither good or bad.

If a lion kills me, it's bad for me, but probably good for the lion.

I don't need to clearly define the concepts of "good" and "bad" to live my life. I already know very well what I have to do and what I should not do.

But I understand you. I had a dilema with that in the past too.

>the mediterraneans (the true Europeans)
This is an interesting comment. Didn't the Germans literally destroy the Roman Empire as Goths? Or was it the Gauls? I don't remember so well.

The oligarchy does whatever serves it's interests.

Looking at mediterraneans as "inferior" is not that common among right wing european parties. Mainly because they know we are on their side.

Note that I am talking about real right wing, not Sup Forums dwellers.

>Still, if a Wolf kills a rabbit, it's neither good or bad.
But we are not wolves and rabbits. This is not even a strictly Christian concept; even the pagan Greeks understood this. Man has his passions, its true, but these are governed by his will and reason. We are rational souls, the wolf, rabbit, and lion are not.

Anyway, good talking to you but I have to be up early tomorrow. Saludos.

It's not interest at all. It creates división, and it makes no sense.

Both mediterraneans and nordics contributed to european civilization.

The truth is that romans were not that good for europe, especially during the last centuries of the empire. They brought wars and genocides everywhere in europe (including the iberian península)

Goths were Germanic, not German. They came from modern day Sweden

You made an strawman, probably not intentionally, but still. Good night. I have to "wake up" in three hours, so I am not going to sleep. No point.