UTILITARIANISM

>UTILITARIANISM
>Hehe, the ends justify the means. Sacrificing millions of peace to bring about world peace was worth.

Why did Alan Moore let him win?

Because it made a great and logical ending to a morally complex work?

that's not utilitarianism and it's a fictional story, get over it smegaboy

>villain is successful
>therefore villain is right
No

Because in real life people follow value systems and moralities you don't personally agree with, and there is no omnipotent moral policeman to come in and make things more agreeable to you.

Manhattan is a flake and the others are too fucked up or self absorbed to be serious threat to him.

Only that raging asshole Comedian could have probably fucked up his plans, that's why he got ganked.

>Why did Alan Moore let him win?
Because Moore is a socialist and he's perfectly fine with murdering millions of innocent people if it means millions more will live. They're all sociopaths.

This
Get your pacifier out of your mouth, OP

Arguably, the destruction of New York was just as bad as if the Cold War went hot anyway. And it still doesn't really solve the problem of millions of Americans and Russians being raised from birth to hate one another.

He got to "win" in the end (not shown in the comic: US/Russian relations quickly deteriorate as they realize there are no armies exploding psychic squid aliens out there, just the one) only for a tiny second. He didn't accomplish anything at all in the long run.

No one "Won" in the end of Watchmen. It's an overly cynical look at superheroes, the Cold War, and human psychology gaping like a black hole's anus. Not that that's a bad thing, since some people like overly dark and cynical stories, just that no one could've possibly come out on top in the end, not ever Voight.

He didn't win.

Rorschach's notes got out. We don't know if they got published or not.

Really the fact that we didn't kill each other during the Cold War sort of changes the urgency of Watchmen. Its an attitude and a fear from a different time; not that we don't have our societal fears, but they're different.

The ends ALWAYS justifies the means so long as you consider all the ends.

Because winning doesn't make you right.

Even if they did, Ozy has a fucking empire he could discredit him or just leak some other fake revelations that seem more important. Just like real life politicians do.

In a realistic setting, the rants of a dead psycho cant win over the empire of a brilliant mind. Maybe if he was alive, but he isnt.

"The end justify an appropriate degree of means" just doesn't sound as good.

Because he is Ronald Reagan and Moore knew America would win the Cold War.

He's gonna be a villain again ,right?

>I did the right thing, didn't I? It all worked out in the end.
>'In the end'? Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends.

He didn't win. He didn't accomplish a damn thing.

still better than Trump

He didn't win. Dr. Manhattan basically left saying it won't ultimately change anything, and the last image is Rorshach's journal if his atrocities ending up in the hands of a newspaper.

He lost completely.

Except he didn't win. His plans might have stalled the war from starting, but it's 99% confirmed in the end that it won't do a thing in the long term.

What would be extra tragic, IMO, is if it's somehow confirmed that history would have progressed the same way as it did in our world, meaning that if Ozy had just waited, the Cold War would've sorted itself out and all the people he killed would have died for nothing.

Because Watchmen was a nihilistic deconstruction of superheroes

Of course villains would win in the end

It was a deconstruction of the genre. In the end of a normal comic, the villain is stopped and we're left wondering, "If he had succeeded, would the world be better?" In the end of the Watchmen, the villain wasn't stopped and it's heavily implied that his plan will fail, with him having killed millions of people for no reason.

In the end, what really separates him from the politicians he was trying to stop? He actually went through with his mass-murdering plan and they didn't

Why do people keep saying this? Watchmen is grim, but it's not nihilistic.

Fuck, even Rorschach monologues about how important holding on to hope is. The ending is bittersweet at best, but there's still some hope in it.

Rorsharch's notes say nothing about the squid, the "conspiracy" Rorsharch was investigating was the missing superheroes. He had absolutely no concept of the squid business before getting out there and like this user said, Rorsharch's journal will be printed in a largely discredited journal of opinion, and the public at large thinks Rorsharch is a dangerous lunatic anyways. It's absolutely ambiguous whether or not his plan will work for very long, but there's no way Adrian will be "caught."

He also killed a midget in jail.

>The ending is bittersweet at best, but there's still some hope in it.

What? It's the exact opposite. The story keeps siphoning out your hope right until the end. Then it tells you that everything is going to be all right, only to rip away your hope and say "Fuck you, I was lying."

> perfectly fine with murdering millions of innocent people if it means millions more will live
But that's capitalism.

(you)

>>>/tumblr/

Not at all capitalism is being willing to kill millions so that hopefully your stock goes up 1/10th of a percent. Saving lives is rarely profitable. ....

Because that's the story Moore was telling. Honestly, do you people believe stories have to end with the characters you like winning? There's more than one way to tell a story. The whole thing is set up from the beginning for Ozy to pull off his plan, it doesn't make him right, nor does it mean that in the "real world" such a plan would play out that way, or that it would be the best thing for humanity. It just means that within the discrete time period these actions take place.

I swear, people don't understand how fiction works. Stories are stories, they can begin and end wherever the writer pleases. All that matters is if the story itself, the way it's told and the content held within, are well-executed and connect with the reader in a satisfying and non-random fashion. For most readers and critics, Watchmen fulfills those criteria at least well enough to make it worth reading and re-reading. This is basic stuff here, folks.

The ending is more complex than simply "Ozy wins." There is intentional ambiguity as to what happens afterwards for each of the surviving characters, and there is no universal voice of the author declaring Ozy the hero like you might find in say, Final Crisis when Nix Utoan and Superman are obviously in the right and Darkseid and Mandrakk are obviously in the wrong. It's not that kind of story. It's just a simple story about the end of the superhero age and Cold War in a setting that draws from old Charlton Comics and the anxieties of the 1980s. Stop treating it as the definitive text of modern comics, or any kind of definitive statement at all. That's how we got years and years of brutal, dark stories from characters and settings that weren't suited to such stories. Moore wrote a story, Gibbons drew it. That's it.

Because in a world of capes, gods, and nuclear squabbles, they needed a common enemy to keep the world from tearing itself to shreds.

the point is nobody won

No he's a anarchist.

>I swear, people don't understand how fiction works. Stories are stories, they can begin and end wherever the writer pleases. All that matters is if the story itself, the way it's told and the content held within, are well-executed and connect with the reader in a satisfying and non-random fashion. For most readers and critics, Watchmen fulfills those criteria at least well enough to make it worth reading and re-reading. This is basic stuff here, folks.

Oh okay Andrew Hussie.

The better question is why he thought the Soviet Union would be compassionate towards an attack in the US when they spent decades doing everything they could to destabilize the country.

Read the book

Comedian was right

>tfw i have no issue with people pruning the population to facilitate peace

What's it like being such natilist shithead?

It's actually a graphic novel, not a book shitlord.
Your move.

Hussie didn't end Homestuck in a satisfying and non-random way. He ended it with an inexplicable series of flashes after literally undoing years of character work. He overloaded his story with unnecessary ephemera while neglecting the core arc. The ending is beyond the pages of the work. The circle is never closed, the arc never ends. It's just unceremoniously cut off. Hussie is mister "real people don't have arcs" which proves that somewhere along the line he lost his marbles and devolved into a crap fanfiction writing hack.

Watchmen begins with the death of the Comedian and the introduction of Rorschach's journal, both of which are story beats directly tied to the last chapter. Each and every panel serves that conclusion to the point that when you re-read the book you can see how everything works together. It is a closed system leading to a conclusion. Moore chose to end the story there because it was the most logical place. Obviously he can't go on forever, in real time, extrapolating into the future until each character and their descendants, biological or otherwise, are dead. The story would never end, which is fine in mainstream comics because that's the point, but Watchmen is a limited series by design. What would be gained by adding another chapter to Watchmen? The mystery has been solved, and the immediate consequences of that mystery have been illustrated. The story is over.

Like I said, you people don't get it.

Sure, we're removed a few decades from the fear/danger of the cold war, but I don't think that diminishes the effect of that kinda setting (disclaimer, I'm a total whore for fiction set in the Cold War-era). The volatility of the political climate and the technological advancements made total self-destruction of our species a real possibility in a way nothing else in history (or even today) rivals.

No Superman to stop him. There's always another way. Pls Snyder adapt Emperor Joker on the big screen.

>Win
He succeeded in his plans, he hasn't won squat.