>This is what happens when the original values for which Captain America stood – American pride and patriotism, defense of Constitutional freedom – become unpopular with the left. They either have to convert Cap to leftism, or make clear that he was the villain all along. Because America must either be converted to leftism, or it was the villain all along. As Brevoort says, “Captain America, because he’s draped head to toe in the flag, has more of a larger, more symbolic meaning than many other characters. In an allegorical fashion, you want to make his adventures about where America and where the world is.”
>Of course, the left can’t play this game indefinitely. It turns out that most Americans don’t like the idea of a patriotic Captain America as a Hydra villain. They don’t believe America is historically evil. They don’t believe patriotism is inherently evil, or that pointing out threats of benighted cultures makes you a Nazi. And they’re not going to keep patronizing movies or comics in which the bad guy is America, or in which traditional good guys become bad guys just by virtue of remaining loyal to their principles.
Fucking hate it when today's politics have be forced into comic books.
>Why Marvel Wants To Make Captain America The Bad Guy Because they knew that it'd be a bigger topic of discussion than DC Rebirth. And you fucks took the bait.
Ian Myers
>Fucking hate it when today's politics have be forced into comic books. Welcome to Marvel comics.
Brandon Scott
Are people really this stupid to waste time writing thinkpieces about something that will last maybe 3 issues max? Jesus Christ, I hate normies
Robert Hernandez
>hey either have to convert Cap to leftism, Convert? Steve Rogers was a skinny art student that lived in a city and was on welfare. All he needs is a manbun or pube beard and he'd be a 21st century hipster.
Isaac Gomez
Jesus fuck, this.
I can't believe this. I'm honestly astonished things have gotten this far. This is the most blatantly comic book-y cliffhanger I've seen in awhile.
And what's worse is people will be claiming that they made Marvel change their minds when the story is over. Like that wasn't the plan from the start. Actually, I could see the story lasting even longer now thanks to all this publicity.
Kayden Morgan
This. It's just baffeling if you actually ever read comics in your life. I mean a few months back, Falcon was Captain America and he got turned into a werewolf. But you didn't see a lot of think pieces about that.
Jayden Lewis
>unpopular with the left
1) liberals are not leftists, they are right of center laissez faire capitalists 2) pride and patriotism are contingent upon justice, and the U.S., as a fascist empire, does more harm than good when instituting free trade/wage slavery and invading other countries over lies and false flag attacks. it is not a rubric of patriotism if it also includes invading other countries on a whim like what happened in vietnam when the golf of tonkin incident never even happened. McNamara admitted it never happened. 3) the u.s. has always been leftist, and the will of the people has always been subverted with the exception of Theodore Roosevelt who broke up banks and FDR, a democratic socialist, who was re-elected 3 times 4) the u.s. is historically evil. slavery and oppression, suppressing workers rights, clan destine involvement in the 2nd part of the bolshevik revolution, IBM and the Holocaust, the list goes on 5) you hate today's politics because Captain America is forcing 1940s politics on the present time. it doesn't work, it's time to move on, and the same goes for Superman
Gavin Brooks
This has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with creating a controversy so people who don't normally give a fuck about comics would talk about it.
Like you're doing. Right here. Right now.
Landon Perez
But thats the thing. Captain america is left. He hates when america overstretchs its boundries in concern of totalitarionism and racism, and believes in an equal and just utopia.
Angel Gutierrez
movies were a mistake
Benjamin Morales
Where did everyone get the idea that comics were conservative tracts? Cap was already pretty fucking Leftist by merit that he was typically written by Liberals. Why is it every faggot who doesn't read comics thinks this? Be it some SJW who thinks a white hero stands for White Supremacy or a Conservative who flips their shit every time a writer fists a ham into a character's mouth?
Cooper Stewart
at best he is a centrist moderate unless you can show me any kind of evidence that he is class conscious and willing to criticize any bourgeois body politic
Jose Wood
Why do Americans have such an epidermic perception of politics and political systems? I mean, is it because they are governed by corporations or are they governed by corporations because of it?
Aiden Myers
>slavery and oppression, suppressing workers rights Guess every country that has ever existed is historically evil, huh.
Elijah Ramirez
Well, fiction has always been an extension of the contemporary fears and worries. So making Rogers an UBERSMENTCH HAIL HYDRA ANSCHLUSS OF AUSTRIA BEST DAY OF MY LIFE does make sense, but it is still rather sad nonetheless, as the world nowadays is a pile of shit and we don't need more cynics.
Jayden Mitchell
I agree with everything you say except about retiring captaib america and superman. Itd be better and easier just to rewrite them for the modern times, rather then making them evil or written out completly.
Aaron Diaz
i read comics. i think captain america and superman are/can be statist and capitalist propaganda
William White
>Actually, I could see the story lasting even longer now thanks to all this publicity. Don't say stuff like this because it will happen and I don't want it to happen
Brandon Rodriguez
Marvel saw an opportunity and pushed the hell out of it so people would ignore DC Rebirth, which might actually tip the scales a little away from 46 different Avengers teams and Deadpool books.
Aiden Lewis
yuropoor detected
Carter Jenkins
as long as it is unwilling to change, or accepts free trade deals, yes. exploitative work practices diminish the human condition and are a threat to genetic health because stress carries over to sperm and affects fetuses in the womb
Angel Johnson
M E M E A G I C
Henry Torres
Well..... Great Men are rarely good men is a popular quote for a reason
Isaiah Rivera
They didn't even push it that hard though, it came out and people lost their fucking minds.
Ryan Wood
>Sup Forums's meme magic is just keeping Stan Lee alive and making shitty storylines happen
No sir I don't like this
Kevin Russell
>Fucking hate it when today's politics have be forced into comic books.
This is the character who literately started out punching Hitler. His name is Captain fucking AMERICA. Like, you can't make Captain America unpolitical. Hell, Marvel has always been political like that to a much bigger extant than any other comics, why do you think X-Men and Iron Man were so successful in the 60's and 70's?
But this is the truest answer.
Benjamin Cruz
>Fucking hate it when today's politics have be forced into comic books. Politics have been a staple diet of the franchise since at least the Steve Englehart era, but the different between then and now is that they didn't try to force feed it to you. "Subtlety" is the key here
Ryder Mitchell
Hey look at the literature major, guys.
Jacob Jackson
they're decades old. move on. they certainly shouldn't be crowding out x-men who are old but still younger.
Luis Jones
>it's the first issue in a story arc >ISSUE #1
It's like people don't like reading or seeing where the story goes
Aiden Gutierrez
But it is. anyone who thinks otherwise is a retard.
John Green
Too late to affect initial comics orders though. Will be interesting to see if the late orders show up in the June sales charts. Same with Rebirth I guess given Wally's return/Watchmen and the fact that anecdotally it seems like shops under-ordered there.
Hunter Bennett
actually i only have a 2 year degree and got diplomas from two different technical colleges and am unemployed. not that it's any of your business
James King
I thought he hated any overbearing political entity, including the rich?
Joseph Hughes
With the current Trump atmosphere, it's not surprising.
Mason Cook
>capitalism = evil
10/10 bait, got me to reply
Logan Wright
>making Cap evil because libshits think America is evil >literally squandering the reputations of your company's legends to appeal to your cancerous fanbase
Now THIS is a sure-fire way to get votes for Trump
Jaxson Hall
can you prove it? i've never seen that anywhere.
Austin Hernandez
So you're not only an ignorant fuckwit parading around in a Che shirt but you're a general fucking failure at life.
Henry Long
Any time someone unironically mentions "the left" or "the right" you can immediately discount their argument. If an author isn't lazy, they will address specific issues without needing to create a monolithic strawman to serve as their opponent.
Angel Diaz
TSUJ
Kevin Long
Cap actually supporting hydra is about as likely as jon snow actually being dead. Its so painfully obvious that its not true and is only a cliffhanger that my brain hurts.
The fact people actually take this seriously makes me lose faith in humanity.
Daniel Morgan
>waaaaah why does muh marvel have to be shitposted about we only do it to DC every day
Jace Ortiz
The people that complain about capitalism the loudest live off it the most.
Kayden Cook
No fuck you. I hate this ressurgance of cunts who want to kill age old characters. I say if a large ammount of people still lile then, then keep them. Fuck the cynics!
Liam Wood
>That feeling when I honestly hope they stick with this story and someone has to kill Cap.
You can't tell me that wouldn't be a good read.
Asher Rivera
>dat pic just like bush, amirite XD
Bush is a faggot and his wars were a shame but I fucking hate this condescending faux subversive writing. Especially when the problem is "solved" by Superman punching really, really hard. And by "solved" I mean to destroy the opposition because Superman is like an old geezer who still want to be cool
Charles James
Rebirth wasn't announced when they were planning all this out though
There were seeds of this in Standoff which they've probably been planning since 2015, and Rebirth wasn't even teased until late January, let alone the explanation of what it was, the books, and the creative team.
They planned evil Cap to coincide with the movie, just like they did Civil War 2, for making maximum attention, anger, and #1 money. Making it a bigger topic than Rebirth is just a bonus.
Mason Hernandez
I really doubt that.
Aaron Nelson
a paraphrase of karl marx on commodity fetishism: 1) imagine that 1 jacket = 20 yards of wool well we've already got a propositional fallacy because that value could change arbitrarily AND it takes out the context of human labor
2) imagine now, that 1 jacket equals one bale of hay, and that 2 bales of hay equal one iron bar. now imagine that this preliminary expression exists for ALL products on the planet. if ONE thing of value changes, then ALL expressions of comparison between commodities change. this means that the value of any good is completely unstable.
3) now add currency to the situation. yes it may be more convenient to use it, but all it has done is abbreviate the propositional fallacy, lack of context of human labor, and unstable value expressions. this doesn't solve the problem
4) inflation
as you can see, there are at least 4 layers of fallacious reasoning going on here that provide ample opportunity for graft. this isn't even about the LIBOR scandal, or the bailout
money isn't even real. it's created out of nothing by a privately owned bank called the federal reserve.
Zemo might be back in hero mode soon, but I don't see how Spencer is the one to get him there given how poorly he has written him.
Jason Reyes
Someone post that screenshot of that marvel editor or writer who said they intentionally make fans angry to sell comics. You faggots need to stop being surprised by this stuff and drop cape shit altogether
Carson Wood
>dailywire Into the trash it goes.
Lucas Murphy
no, i'm pointing out that people are always harping about the STEM field and few are hiring
i don't wear che shirts. is that the "in" stereotype that kids these days are using to make fun of leftists?
Jaxon Cox
Capitilism is evil, but a socialism capitlist hybrid is the godtier political system. Fuck off you redneck bitch. Those cheating theieving 1% deserve to be bleed dry of their illgotten wealth and beaten to death. I cant fucking prove it, okay. I just know that because thats the general fucking auroa of the characters beliefs you chucklefuck bitch.
Jace Hernandez
take the political compass test
Dylan Richardson
>Inflation never happens outside of capitalism!
>Human labor is "context"
It doesn't matter how much labor goes into something if it has no practical or social use. You can't force people to want things based solely on the amount of work that goes into creating them. All value is arbitrary, that has nothing to do with capitalism.
Ditch the Che shirt and read a book or five.
Julian Gomez
I hate to agree with Sup Forumsmblr but this is mostly just a cheap cash grab rather than a deeply ideological push against the constitution by comics
Christian Turner
>chucklefuck
lol user, i wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you. calm down
Adam Bailey
Well, yeah.
Government IS violence. And All political power comes out of the barrel of a gun.
It depresses the shit out of me when people follow the chain of rationality, land on anarchism as a sensible answer and then dismiss their own conclusion because they don't like it.
Colton Wright
i think Zemo being goofy is also Red Skull fucking with reality
Tyler Morgan
Chew a cyanide pill you cappie fuck. People shouldnt be allowed to have literal billions while most of america struggles to get by. It isnt right. Fuck your old world values, about if they "worked for it". Chances are, most of those bug business fuckers have cheated or stolen the wealth theyve got, just like the fucking criminals you bitch and complain about.
Caleb White
Kek it will be Whor all over again?
Man I just hope that they change all the classic Cap lines and make him saying the same thing but with Hydra and nazism.
It would e hilarious.
Caleb Edwards
>these days
Try for the last couple decades.
Asher Thompson
It's not a new stereotype, and STEM fields are hiring. The problem is you're a moron.
Sebastian Jenkins
In Cable & Deadpool, he called Cable's socialist utopia the "perfect realisation of the American dream."
Gabriel Collins
the state is patently right wing. it is controlled by capitalists.
Christopher Davis
>Fuck off you redneck bitch.
Nice classism there buddy.
Elijah Lopez
>He hates when america overstretchs its boundries
The why he wanted to slap japs and germans?
Zachary Wilson
and i'll bet ancaps are the ones selling them
Joshua Bailey
>liberals are not leftists, they are right of center laissez faire capitalists They're all voting for Bernie so that makes this bullshit right from the get-go >pride and patriotism are contingent upon justice, and the U.S., as a fascist empire, does more harm than good when instituting free trade/wage slavery and invading other countries over lies and false flag attacks Red Scare aside, having the fat sheiks in the middle east sit on their oil and do nothing would choke the global economy into submission. The west took the oil so they could basically keep the Earth turning. >the u.s. has always been leftist, and the will of the people has always been subverted with the exception of Theodore Roosevelt who broke up banks and FDR, a democratic socialist, who was re-elected 3 times Andrew Jackson >the u.s. is historically evil. slavery and oppression, suppressing workers rights, clan destine involvement in the 2nd part of the bolshevik revolution, IBM and the Holocaust, the list goes on Every other country on the planet has practiced slaver and genocide; the US just did it better and more efficiently than everyone else. >you hate today's politics because Captain America is forcing 1940s politics on the present time. it doesn't work, it's time to move on, and the same goes for Superman Nice assumption there Tolstoy. If white people were more keen to 1940s politics as opposed to making everyone equal we wouldn't be in this situation with our kids deluding themselves into thinking other races can totes be friends with them and won't take advantage of them
Connor Parker
>Punching actual Nazis >Subtle
Jackson Wilson
Sorry, im waiting in an office while typing this to get more antidepressents, while surronding by drooling retards, so im really pissy right now.
Zachary Jones
>People shouldn't be allowed. It tickles me pink to see leftist shills scream and tantrum about shadow governments and puppet courts propped up by billionaires while supporting fascist drones to implement the same style of totalitarian thought control they constantly accuse everyone else of clandestinely supporting.
You're funny people, user. Stupid, but funny.
Tyler Gonzalez
>hurr fucking Sup Forums I hate them so much >let's have threads identical to theirs
sasuga Sup Forumsmblr
Anthony Sanchez
Stupid fucks are retards that support these over rich bastards. I dont give a shit if i have to kick you fucking bitch teeth in to shut you up. I want to live in the gloripus utopia promised to us in the atomic age, and im not letting over capilistic fucks like you prevent me from seeing that in my lifetime, no matter how many inbred hicks i have to kill.
Kevin Allen
I'm voluntarily homeless as a statement against American excess.
It is an interesting thing though and you almost have a point.
Not too long ago It sort of occurred to me both they and myself sort of Congregate around beacons of capitalism (hell im stealing wifi from a walmart to type this).
Theres some sort of commentary to be found there. The down trodden huddling around monoliths to catch the run off of excess.
Its like a grimmer metaphor for the struggle of the working class.
Nolan Stewart
go back to bending over for the muzzies, eurofag
Jose Jenkins
how is sanders bullshit? he's critical of free trade deals just like trump
those "fat sheiks" in saudi arabia are wahabist, and the u.s. is the one that installed them.
andrew jackson, while defending the idea of national banks just like karl marx, was a rabid racist and oppressed native americans rather than built up an egalitarian society that valued both cultures
>every country has done x tu quoque fallacy. not every country talked about equality either, and the u.s. is still having difficulty aspiring to it
white people in the 1940s voted for FDR, yet we don't see captain america talking about worker's rights. he's an anachronism against the 3rd reich which could not have logistically functioned without IBM, a u.s. corporation. we CAN be friends with other countries and other races, if it weren't for capitalist betrayals and identity politics that come from liberals and conservatives
Nicholas Brooks
"They" in this instance being other homeless who are not in their situation voluntarily.
Misspoke.
Matthew Sanders
>They either have to convert Cap to leftism They did that decades and decades ago, since when was Cap ever considered a conservative
Ryder Jones
>complaining about /comblr/ >being the weakest link of all boards and allowing literal SRS tier shit in the site since 2012
you deserve /comblr/ now deal with it
Sebastian Wilson
No, we shouldve stopped using oil cold turkey and reblled against the superrich into giving us alternative sources of energy that the capitlist fucks have been hiding for years. Shitheaded rednecks like you only care about your fucking monster trucks and bigmacs, while our fucking world is dying. I want to blow your degnerate brains out.
Colton Gonzalez
not my fault that cell phones and laptops never came with a warning about conflict minerals in the congo. i doubt seriously if there was a label on the device you're using right now that if it said "some minerals extracted from wartorn congo where the u.s. finances rape squads from Rwanda, Ugana and Burundi" that you'd still buy it.
to have a job and stay employed, you basically have to have a cell phone, and an overexpensive vehicle that is overproduced is also required to get by. it's a stupid process and everyone knows it.
>capitalism is evil! >muh communism will save the world! Capitalism is how the economical system on large scale settled itself naturally. Communism would never work outside of enclosed communities that prefer a life style of subsistence rather than progress
Cooper Williams
Hi Marvel
Jack Wilson
Economic systems alone are inadequate as an ideological foundation needed to build a civilization upon. All economic systems from capitalism to Marxism are inherently materialist and impose a mechanistic identity upon humanity that reduces their sense of meaning to that of a means of production.
The Left/Right political dichotomy is a false one. The true ideological divide in humanity is between Traditinalism and Modernism, and modernism inherently leads to the industrial exploitation of all people, attempts to foist a reductionist global identity upon us, and clearly marks the degeneration in quality of all human works and expression with the rise of quantity and waste in it's place. Traditionalism creates and maintains where Modernism consumes and burns through the earth
John Walker
>a stupid marketing gimmick storyline is apparently american liberals' latest attempt to literally subvert american values because they hate freedom or something >because cap has always been a conservative and never a liberal bleeding heart new deal democrat >also antisemitism somehow >even though this is blatantly obviously some kind of hypnosis or time travel bullshit
jesus christ, I never thought I'd say it, but:
fucking normies
Jaxson Jenkins
it'd work if the u.s. stopped sabotaging it or supporting people who were clearly psycho
Jaxon Perry
>threat to genetic health because stress carries over to sperm and affects fetuses in the womb That is bullshit and you know it. Take your epigenetics theories and leave, that's not how germ cells work.
Joshua Hernandez
There's nothing complex or difficult to understand about it.The people that rant on and on about "Privilege", "Diversity", "Representation", "Homotransqueercatastereophosphoromysophobia" the loudest go on sites like Kotaku, The Mary Sue, Jezebel or Cracked, write down their agitprop into an article, slap a clickbait title to it and live off the revenue. Meanwhile, the truly disprivileged and oppressed are obviously going to be too busy living from hand to mouth to spend their days plugged to internet and make money off being Offended.
Jaxson Baker
>Communism would never work outside of enclosed communities that prefer a life style of subsistence rather than progress This is completly true, however capitilisam in its current amerixan form, where large corperations literally cintrol the givernment with lobbyists and bribes, is still completly flawed.
Owen Price
>mechanistic
you're projecting. uplifting the plebs is very humanistic. a greater future for everyone has plenty of subjective and aesthetic value.
you have it precisely backwards about traditionalism/modernism. modernism is not exploitative. traditionalism based on social hierarchies and maintaining the power of the ruling class it was divides humanity.
furthermore, the oldest tradition is mutual aid. without it, there would be no families.
Austin Wood
...
Owen Price
Finally someone talking some sense. I don't think modernism is completely wrong though, it's more that there needs to be a balance between traditional and modern values in a society for it to truly prosper.
Lincoln Perez
>anarchism Go to Somalia, chucklefuck
Brody Scott
>As Brevoort says, “Captain America, because he’s draped head to toe in the flag, has more of a larger, more symbolic meaning than many other characters. In an allegorical fashion, you want to make his adventures about where America and where the world is.” Brevoort once said picture related.
Put it into context. This is about publicity. not politics.