I was reading Hellblazer, and this guy is the biggest fucking self-insert for every British writer in the 90's

I was reading Hellblazer, and this guy is the biggest fucking self-insert for every British writer in the 90's.

>Intelligent, nihilistic, wicked sense of humour etc...
>And he's like...so good of a Wizard he can trick God into doing stuff for him.

wait till you see Morrison's Invisibles

Most of his trickery doesent even involve magic

Most of his skill in magic is in plane walking and a bit of divination.

Admitidly he is portrayed as crazily good at moving through the realms but still.

I really should finish getting caught up on all the hellblazer stuff.

I think I will read the rest of the newest one before I jump back into the original. Got about 260 to go there.

Although they seem to only sell the trades on Google play and dc abandoned that so I guess I will have to head to the win o (and then onto individual issues it seems they have only been making trades for it the last few years.

That's not really the point. The point is he's too much of a Gary Stu. I could see the invisible fedora on every page.

>Gary Stu
>Constantine
Haha, l laught at your face

He literally outsmarts God by being a cheeky cunt.

That's the point that's the main part of his character but he is still flawed as fuck

>Nicotine addiction
>All his friends die
>Thinks with his dick to much

His magics not even that great there's the aforementioned planeswalking and some slightly above average divination

On everything else he's pretty much average.

>his guy is the biggest fucking self-insert for every British writer in the 90's.
Why would they want to be Scouse?

Oh issue 10 of his dc you series is looking great there aren't enough stories set in faerie

Not a fan of the way issue 9 ends though like John says breaking a pact with a demon has a cost there have been far better times in his life to risk that cost here it was over almost nothing

Those are superficial flaws, and part of some idealized masculinity.

>I could be a hard-drinking street-smart guy, too!

Once you outwit God, you're a Gary-Stu.

Being the best at something doesent make you a sue.

It does when there's a story about you outwitting God.

None of this really matters in what makes the stories good. Constantine personality is just the personification of negativity, we are there not to root for him, just to walk with him through the magical world.

John is toxic and detestable because of the nature of what he really is, a cheater, a black mage, a profane sorcerer. Nothing that happens to him or the world seems fair, because it is not suppose to be. He goes to the worst places on earth, where innocents die but he remains unharmed. Because he deserves it? No! Because he is a egoistic cheater. The bad qualities of John is what keeps him going.

Because he's apparently infallible or something?
Read Preacher, or Spawn, if you want God shenanigans.

t.Garth Ennis

>It does when there's a story about you outwitting God.
>Your mary sue beat my mary sue
OH TEH NOES

He's also a huge dick and nobody likes him.

God ain't perfect

tbf Morrison was upfront about that.

>Most of his skill in magic is in plane walking and a bit of divination.
Not even OP but >implying planeswalking isn't OP as fuck

Sasuga, Vertigofags.

tips bible

>Acknowledging the fallibility of a diety in a fictional universe is fedora.
You can fight the presence deal with it.

Moore literally intended for Constantine to be himself in comic form.

Maybe I missed it, when did he outsmart god?

being SO dark and tortured does not make you less of a Gary Stu. it makes you more of one.
You know what power Constantine has? being a selfish dick to everyone, but still having no one dislike him for non-superficial reasons.
he's a Gary-Stu, simple as that

No. I'm pretty sure, paraphrasing, Moore said he imagined him to be the sort of usual middle-aged bloke you'd see stumbling into or out of a bar.
Making him a perfect antithesis of the classic idea of a wizard who is usually isolated out in the woods or whatnot, studious, disciplined, aged, in a robe or some sort of telling garment, all that stuff.

Also Moore, upon becoming a wizarino himself, differs drastically from Constantine in appearance, mannerism, reverence, etc so yeah I'm not seeing the connection.

>but still having no one dislike him for non-superficial reasons

To get the most out of a comic book, you should read the words that accompany the pictures.

>no one dislike him for non-superficial reasons.
Holy shit is the god trick story the only constantine you have read
People hate him for all sorts of good reasons.

>The man with a cigeret addiction, half a sex addiction, who makes poor decisions that lead to the deaths of his friends and sometimes can find no way to solve a problem without sacrificing one of the few friends he hasent acidentily killed is a Mary sue

I don't see you bitching about the time he outwitted satan

But hes very clearly shown to be a shitty wizard.
He has very little power and at best an average knowledge, he just has a reputation bigger than he is because he knows just enough and is charming enough to worm his way out of stuff.
Hes also regularly shown to be a prick and mentally unstable

Satan isn't that clever.

>Gary Stu
>One of the most plainly flawed characters in comics

Hell I just remembered he outwitted all 3 devil's you don't seem to be complaining about that.

>but still having no one dislike him for non-superficial reasons

Are you reading what? Justice Dark?

That's the only possible explanation I could think of it did suffer from a bit of tell not show with John the original series did a little but nowhere near as much as jld.

Even then he still did a few horrible things in that series

I agree with you on the idealized masculinity stance, being a egotistical cheating bastard can be just as much characterwank as being an shining paragon of humanity could be.

Can you or is the presence just letting you win so you can feel good about yourself?

No one knows what goes on in the minds of tiny dogs.

>he's a shitty wizard
Somebody should tell the writers that because they have him trounce every supernatural thing that comes his way.

Constantine ain't a gary stu but I can see where you're coming from. Characters like Constantine and their self-destructive behavior become "Cool" and people take the wrong thing from it.

Wow, it's almost like looking at art from a TVTropes perspective and saying that Trope X is inherently bad ruins any and all nuanced discussion about a work of art.

>Mary Sues are inherently bad!

>MacGuffins are inherently bad!

>Deus Ex Machina are inherently bad!

Context matters.

I really think you guys should not fall for the bait. This person has no idea about Hellblazer or the context of the time it was written in.

I mean aside from the buzzword what else is the actual argument in this thread?

Hellblazer!

300+ issues
only like 20 good ones

Stop using phrases you don't understand you mong

Not to veer too far off topic, but King Mob really is a good example of how the Mary Sue thing can actually work. He's very obviously Morrison wish-fufillment vehicle, sexy cool super-spy freedom fighter voodoo assassin etc., but he's not a perfect character nor is the story made to be all about him at everybody else's expense. People call him out for his shitty attitude, he gets his shit wrecked pretty badly at one point, and he's not even the main character.

It helps Morrison can/could be surprisingly self-critical and that The Invisibles is a very personal work to begin with, so it's not entirely inappropiate.

Hey Op. How about Saint of Killers. Is he Gary Sue? Is ozymandis gary sue? Is Authority a bunch os Sues?

You know I reckon you could get a pretty good idea of the events of hellblazer 1 and 2 without the words

I think op might just be angry for religious reasons. Must follow an abrahamic religion gets pissed that somebody would is able to pull one over on god especialy a soul as dammed as Constantine's.

Either that or op just has some mild schizophrenia or something

John constantine can't even fight very well you fool.

And what the fuck have fedoras even got to do with Mary sues

I suspect as much myself, but I find it weird for someone with that sort of view of fiction to read something like Hellblazer in the first place.

The name doesn't exactly invite the devout.

It is odd yeah

Hm I just noticed issue I just finished was 50 I'm 1/6 of the way through

Is that the badger?

>having no one dislike him for non-superficial reasons.
Do I really need to list even a small amount of the horrible things constantine has done.

No, it's Foolkiller.