Is this for real or just a tumblr edit, Sup Forums? Please tell me it's the latter?

Is this for real or just a tumblr edit, Sup Forums? Please tell me it's the latter?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
rt.com/news/yugoslavia-kosovo-nato-bombing-705/
dawn.com/news/56032/do-bombs-use-depleted-uranium
twitter.com/AnonBabble

It's real, but immediately turns into a straw man the next page.

This. They do this every time Red Skull shows up nowadays.

He makes some reasonable points about political correctness or uncontrolled immigration or exceptionalism or some reasonable shit... and then the next page is chucking babies out a window or talking teens into becoming suicide bombers.

Ironically it ends up backfiring and making Red Skull seems more reasonable instead of his positions seeming more radical.

Do you have the next page? I've only seen this one.

Didn't we just have this thread yesterday?

>strawman
It showed what happens when you allow yourself to get duped into a smooth talking sociopath like Red Skull. I agree with Skully, but the image described perfectly how easy it is too fall into groups like that if you don't have a place to belong/believe yourself to morally superior no matter what.

t. I used to be in something similar my famamamalama's

>Ironically it ends up backfiring and making Red Skull seems more reasonable instead of his positions seeming more radical.
>and then the next page is chucking babies out a window or talking teens into becoming suicide bombers.
Not really m8.

Why is a Global-threat Nazi supervillain now giving speeches to american voters in someone's basement while wearing a khaki business suit?

Fuck why is the average american in the Marvel U even listening to him considering all the shit Red Skull has pulled?

...

>villain's schtick is being a smooth talker who manipulates weak-willed people who don't think for themselves
>"Hmm, he seems pretty reasonable!"

I mean nothing in that page alone seems unreasonable to me.

That is not how strawman fallacy work.

>Gosh Cap, it's got to be more than a little disconcerting that all of the traditional values and principles you fought for have been replaced by identity politics and obscene corporatism. Don't you sometimes wish you could do something to make things more like they were?
What an unreasonable commentary. Clearly nothing he says has any basis in reality.

why is he even giving a speech doesn't he still have Prof X's powers he can just make them blow up a whatever they were attacking.

also did anyone ever explain how Red Skull is alive after Magneto crushed his head with a rock like a grape in Axis?

Not right now it doesn't. A few years ago it would have. The political atmosphere is changing I guess. 'Othering' is now normal.

How do you think people like Hitler get into power, retards?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
>Can include inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
In this case, the writers portraying a fictional character - The Red Skull - as agreeing with whatever political sentiment the writers happen to disagree with.

#makeAmericaWhiteagain

Yes, the whole point is that reasonable opinions are put in his mouth with the intent of trying to make said reasonable opinion appear as crazy hate speech because it's now something red skull would say, and are you going to agree with red skull

Same thing with the [unsolicited opinions on Israel] thing, that was clearly meant to impky that having the wrong kind of opinions on the foreign policy of a specific country is something only ancient hate-filled bigots who literally froth in the mouth would say. "This opinion is wrong and bad and only evil people think like this", essentially

>why is he even giving a speech
he said in a previous issue that now that he can just force people to do his bidding, he gets off on telling them exactly what they want to hear and following him of their own volition

...

Ok, still perfectly reasonable, I don't get it.

That's a very black and white mind set.
You have be nationalistic and protect your people over strangers without becoming literal Hitler.

What's so hard about "Hey we're going to do our thing over here, we're not going to hurt you, but you're not allowed to come in and have our shit, just go do your own thing over there."

You guys already did this exact same thread the other day. Same pages, same reaction image. Christ, I need to stop coming here.

It's literally one degree of separation away from
>You know who supported _______? Hitler! You don't wanna be like HITLER... DO you??

>we will never see the Red Skull meet Kamala
>we will never see the Red Skull debate Kamala
>we will never see the Red Skull slowly redpill Kamala
>we will never see the Red Skull BLEACH Kamala upon the climax of her story
>we will never see Kamala fighting for the against her mudshit family and country for the Aryan people/nation and it's values

..... why even live Sup Forums?

Jesus Christ, you really are retarded.

People like Hitler get voted in because they say reasonable things that most people would agree with. They're manipulative. You're supposed to agree with Red Skull's speech. Do you think Hitler was elected because Germans were gigantic retards or do you think it was because Hitler was good at giving speeches?

A completely valid opinion, immediately portrayed as invalid by the fact that Mr WorseThanHitler is saying it and in the next page has people suicide bombing buses and shit.

Reminder Nazis were super protective over nature and animals. So whenever someone pulls that, feel free to bring that up.

has Kamala even had an interaction with actual super villain yet?

he's gonna remove her soul from her body and give her a zanpakuto?

>>People like Hitler get voted in because they say reasonable things that most people would agree with.
So where's the problem then?

I was agreeing with you, you retard.

I feel that if America destabilises countries, then it should be America that takes them in. Not the migrants. But true, poor unfortunate refugees that they fuck over.

Not Europa who did nothing but pays the price every single fucking time.

It's not. Most of it is perfectly reasonable concerns and honest grievances that a person might have over a migrant crisis. The issue is that Red Skull is saying that to address these reasonable grievances, you should do something unreasonable, IE: Join a Nazi death-cult bent on world domination through violence, intimidation, and subversion.

I don't like what's going on in Europe either, and there are plenty of grievances I have with the way the USA is run, but I'm not going to resort to violence to redress those grievances. I'm not going to assassinate a politician or blow up a hospital or do something extreme, because the normal democratic process is still working. Look at people like Donald Trump, Nigel Farage, Marie Le Pen, etc. These people have strong stances on immigration and they're all surging ahead in the polls because people are voting with issues like the migrant crisis in mind. I understand the temptation to take extreme measures in what seems like extreme situations, but I won't give up on democracy. I know the powers that be can rig the game, but they can't silence the people outright.

tl;dr, if you agree with Red Skull that's fine, just don't join Hydra. For god's sake just vote.

Jews fucked over his country.

Voting is so much work though.

>, because the normal democratic process is still working.
Sorry, how? I didn't elect Merkel or anyone in Brussels, and they're threatening to economically ruin my shitty third world eastern Euro country because we don't want to pay for the refugees they want to force into our country. That's just an example related to the thread, I have thousands of others but it would be off topic.

The entire point of the EU is that literally no one actually elects the people who are governing it and there's no recourse against decisions made against any member country.

>be american
>my country fucks over mudslimes
>mudslimes flock to europe and create a shitstorm
>relax and enjoy a burger while a mexican mows my lawn for 2 dollars

feels free man

Can someone just fucking post the next page so we can decide if its a strawman or not

Not him/her. The problem is what they say. Saying Obama/Trump tier shit like "I WILL FIX THE ECONOMY. I WILL MAKE EVERYTHING BETTER" is fine.

Demonizing minorities really isn't i.e The ___ are ALL our problems. Make them disappear and EVERYTHING will be right again for us.

>I agree with Skully
I actually. don't, but I can see why so many would think it make sense.

He call out for fear just to destroy one of the essential notion that made the U.S. of A. what it is: If you are persecuted and are fleeing from persecution and tyranny, come to America where you can work to make your dream come true. He goes directly against the very notion of American Dream.

I know not many here will agree with what I am saying, but I think, for the the United States, anyone should have a chance to become a citizen of it. No number limitation.

What it should have is having a better immigration agency that would provide a framework for the immigrant to be part of America, obligation to learn English, their rights and their duty that come with their Citizenship.

The USA is a nation made mostly of immigrants, and anyone should be given the same opportunities their first founders were given.

Where does he say that though? Even Hitler never said that.

I agree with you for the most part, but it does hit a point where you have to do more than just vote.

The US wouldn't exist if our forefathers just voted.

When is the right time to go from voting to picking up a gun? That's the tricky part.

She Tony once so- yes :^)

What did he mean by this?

>Even Hitler never said that.

because he knew that if he did he wouldn't get elected.

This image is the greatest Sup Forums bait ever published, post it and they will come

>>He call out for fear just to destroy one of the essential notion that made the U.S. of A. what it is: If you are persecuted and are fleeing from persecution and tyranny, come to America where you can work to make your dream come true. He goes directly against the very notion of American Dream.
Your "American Dream" sounds suspiciously like "let's steal the best minds and the richest people from all the other countries, and also let's ruin our lower class by importing a lower class that can work for cheaper and with no unions"....

The issue is people have no faith in the system.
People abuse welfare and get free money from the goverment, and a lot of these people are immigrants and illegals.

People think it's much more realistic to build a wall and deport them then to fix and maintain a system that will handle it properly and not get abused.

>not just moving to another country

democracy is shit tho

what the majority thinks is not always what could be good for a country.

idealistically speaking, a country should be run by a small number of people who knows what's best for the country and its people. but that would be impossible to achieve for several reasons

That wiki entry was incorrect (corrected it, by the way, thanks). If the opinion expressed i a real one, then it's not a strawman fallacy, it either an ad hominem or Genetic Fallcy.

Oh, don't get me wrong - I'm not suggesting the kind of extreme actions of Hydra aren't COMPLETELY FUCKING INSANE

The issue here is that you get this extremely conflicting reaction among the readers (as evidenced by all the threads that have come up in response to these pages lately) where the writer is essentially putting in a bad guy as a strawman representing some political opposition, and then ironically having the bad guy making very reasonable points before doing something cartoonishly fucking evil.


Another example (I don't have the page saved) is an issue a while back with the Sons of the Serpent showing up at the US border to discourage illegal immigrants from crossing into the states. The leader of the group makes an impassioned and very reasonable speech about national security and protecting the jobs and economy of one's own nation first, and at no point in this whole sequence do they actually harm any of the migrants, they just tell them matter-of-factly "please go back home, we don't want to have to hurt you"

Then Sam Wilson shows up and literally beats the shit out of them for not allowing illegal immigrants into the country.


It's really fucking bizarre and it really highlights why inserting these kinds of political issues into comics goes over so poorly.

When that notion was created, welfare wasn't a thing. People came to the US, and they worked hard and earned their right to a good life.
Not the same case anymore. You come off a plane and your handed a pamphlet on how to get the most free money from the goverment.

"The black-haired Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end, satanically glaring at and spying on the unsuspicious girl whom he plans to seduce, adulterating her blood and removing her from the bosom of her own people. The Jew uses every possible means to undermine the racial foundations of a subjugated people."

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf): (Book 1 Chap 11)

That's why there are no true democracies, only republics

*she met Tony once

more money is lost through big business tax evasion and government bailouts than is lost through people gaming welfare

Exactly, a true democracy is LITERALLY a logical fallacy.

>and also let's ruin our lower class by importing a lower class that can work for cheaper and with no unions"....
The only reason it happens is precisely because they are illegal.Stopping immigration from being illegal would actually put an end to the employment black market.
The whole point about the obligation for them to be taught their right is precisely so they wouldn't be taken advantage of.

>Your "American Dream" sounds suspiciously like "let's steal the best minds and the richest people from all the other countries,
Well that's probably the best incentive to stop country from treating their own citizens like shit.

>that would be impossible
hoe about some law where you have to take a vow of poverty to get into politics, and if you violate that vow you're banned for life

>People abuse welfare and get free money from the goverment, and a lot of these people are immigrants and illegals.
What are the stats on that actually. How much Americans citizens are actually guilty of abusing welfare compared to the proportion of illegal immigrants who do.

>People think it's much more realistic to build a wall and deport them then to fix and maintain a system that will handle it properly and not get abused.

People also think that the earth is flat and 9/11 was an inside job. People are retarded and nothing will change that.

True, but that's a whole different issue. Also it's much less noticeable to the average person.

>It's really fucking bizarre and it really highlights why inserting these kinds of political issues into comics goes over so poorly.
This. Even the other side of the spectrum is just as cringy (that one Superman comic)

Okay, so how exactly would the rulers of the country be determined?

>(that one Superman comic)
Not vague at all

mud wrestling

some kind of tests and/or universities degrees I guess

but the mankind is, for its own nature, prone to circlejerking, there would be no true measure to stop corruption anyway

I live in glorious Freedomland so I dunno exactly how you Eurofriends do things. If the EU is fucking you over though, agitate for or create a party that is similar to UKIP. Those guys are recent creations, and they've already got that Brexit referendum on the table. The UK is a pretty major country, so if they can leave, your 3rd world shithole could probably sneak out without much fanfare. Maybe not though, like I said, I'm not sure how things work over there. If nothing else, be the change you want to see in the world. Take to the streets, organize, and get loud. Do anything besides hurling your political energy into the void of an angry image board.

A difficult question. I feel the Declaration of Independence lines it out fairly well, but even then the language used is a bit vague. Obviously you should pick up a gun and start shooting if they start taking guns, but the collapse of liberty is not always swift and overt. The slowly boiled frog is a good analogy. I don't have an answer, but I feel as though myself and other well meaning patriots will know when the time comes.

The upside of slowly eroded liberty is that a well informed person can take notice and attempt to reverse that process. I remember when Sup Forums fought against the SOPA bill, fought and won, I might add.

>Look at people like Donald Trump, Nigel Farage, Marie Le Pen, etc.
And look at what the people who disagree with them politically are willing to do to prevent voters from supporting them.

Marine Le Pen's nationalist party won the first round of France's regional vote by a million vote margin, and was predicted to win a plurality in the second round until the Republican and Socialist parties openly conspired to push their voters into strategically voting for opposing candidates to block the FN in as many districts as possible.

That's borderline election fraud

Protip: in a civilized country, you can't get a job or get on welfare or do anything that requires any kind of a document if you're an illegal immigrant. It's not like this situation isn't endorsed by your government.

>Well that's probably the best incentive to stop country from treating their own citizens like shit.
Yeah, like that one time that America bombed us with depleted uranium...

>People came to the US, and they worked hard and earned their right to a good life.
>Not the same case any more.
So, wait, now that it's easier, it doesn't count. i don't think the people who fought and campaigned to improve their working rights and condition were like "But it's only for us, guys. If we make things better for us, no more immigrants allowed".

> You come off a plane and your handed a pamphlet on how to get the most free money from the government.
twisting reality a bit. there are help on how to get started. Most immigrants who are here legally end up getting a job and paying their taxes too. again , I would be interested in knowing those stats

>People think it's much more realistic to build a wall
Fun facts: most people living living next to the border are actually against the wall.

>So, wait, now that it's easier
Not even the guy you're replying to but you're an idiot. Like did you really just take "People aren't working and are abusing welfare" as "Work isn't as hard anymore." ? Really?

>So, wait, now that it's easier, it doesn't count. i don't think the people who fought and campaigned to improve their working rights and condition were like "But it's only for us, guys. If we make things better for us, no more immigrants allowed".
No idea what the fuck you're talking about.

Unfortunately, referendums get repeated until the government gets the desired result, then they change the laws so that the referendum will never be repeated again in near future.

Well, it would be harder to get cheap drugs and hookers and smuggle shit across which is their main source of income so yeah.

>bombed us with depleted uranium...
Depleted uranium isn't used in bombs.

Bad writing is bad writing. It's just doubly bad when it involves religion or politics, because on top of offending the reader's taste, it also offends their personal philosophies. Even mediocre or good writing can be soured by bad politics. Those stories you're describing are stupid, but then, so are bad writers.

Red Skull Was Right

>People think it's much more realistic to build a wall
The Israelis built 500 km worth of border wall in four years at a cost of about $4M / km. Bombings in Israel dropped by a factor of 6 after it went up.

Oh hey I thought htey made that up for World War Z

rt.com/news/yugoslavia-kosovo-nato-bombing-705/

Give it a decade

Nope. Israeli's were sick of Palestinians running arms and bombs across the border so they put a wall up.

The bombings stopped for the most part and it forced Hamas to start doing ridiculously complicated and stupid shit.

I think a couple months ago they tried pulling some kind of crazy Navy SEALS style beach landing. They got about 200 yards in from the water before the IDF started shelling the bastards.

>p: in a civilized country, you can't get a job or get on welfare or do anything that requires any kind of a document if you're an illegal immigrant.
That's my point. that's why immigration shouldn't be made illegal.

>Yeah, like that one time that America bombed us with depleted uranium...
You are switching the issues, here. You were originally talking about brains and rich people fleeing to the US..

Can't blame Israel for defending itself, but to be honest, they "stole" Palestinian lands first.

>that's why immigration shouldn't be made illegal
I'm not following, illegal immigration is already illegal, but once you illegally immigrate, you have so many loopholes to exploit it's fucking ridiculous. The only way to stop this is to eliminate the loopholes, but this will never be done because your country lives on the backs of the illegal immigrants.

>You are switching the issues, here. You were originally talking about brains and rich people fleeing to the US..
Well, it's kind of a natural thing when the US ruins your country, if you're qualified enough to get out, you'll get out, that's a huge reason why they ruin some places in the world periodically. That and resources and army base placement etc.

Does it say something about this thread that not a single person told OP to just read the fucking comic himself? There's a download, it was already storytimed, and you already see people using online comic viewers these days, so it would've been easy.

Give it a decade for what user? You KNOW it's not going to happen right?

Not American but I followed Sup Forums on the election.
Trump was very strong in areas of Texas near the border, the more you moved away from the border Ted Cruz grew stronger.

Difference is Israel is Fucking tiny compared to the us Mexican border

You misunderstood me. I said "now that it's easier" I meant condition of living are better in part due to Welfare.

>"People aren't working and are abusing welfare"
Again, I would like to see the stats of what proportion of US citizens have been abusing Welfare, and what proportions of immigrants, illegal or not are abusing it too.

The post here was saying
>When that notion was created, welfare wasn't a thing.
as if Wellfare somehow cancelled the notion of American Dream.
Just because it is now easier to live in the US now than in the past shouldn't void that.

People are saying that there are emigrants that solely come here to do no thing and smooch off Welfare, to what I reply, what are the actual numbers on this behavior, and shouldn't those immigrant be treated the same way US citizen who smooch of welfare too should be treated?

>Russia Today
You've sure got an unbiased source there friend.

But,yes, Depleted Uranium munitions were used in Yugoslavia and Kosovo, but they weren't bombs, they were armor penetrating rounds fired from cannon of various calibers.

The common bomb that's claimed to contain DU is the BLU-113, but it's just not heavy enough to warrant using depleted uranium to increase it's weight. Doing the math comes up with densities closer to steel than DU for inert filler.
>dawn.com/news/56032/do-bombs-use-depleted-uranium

The only bomb large enough to possibly require Depleted Uranium Ballast is the GBU-57, but there's no evidence to indicate it contains DU filler - more likely a tungsten-cobalt filler which itself isn't a very pretty

>. The only way to stop this is to eliminate the loopholes
The other way is simply removing the notion of illegality, removing loophole altogether and thus making illegal employment not possible.
> but this will never be done because your country lives on the backs of the illegal immigrants.
Also the reason why illegal immigration might remain illegal.

> as if Wellfare somehow cancelled the notion of American Dream.

It has undermined it to the point that it's become a joke. Now you have more people trying to mooch off of an increasingly small number of actually productive people, and importing massive numbers of illegal aliens just adds even more moochers to the mess.

I mean, Living right next to the border, i.e. having part of your porperty touch the border.

Because it means building a wall on their property and them losing a part of it.

Are you dumber than Sup Forums? Othering has been normal for the past 6 thousand years.

> I mean, Living right next to the border, i.e. having part of your porperty touch the border.
Fuck them. If they actually had any respect for US law we wouldn't be in this mess. Instead they looked the other way and let an invading army waltz on in. There are countless groups that would be willing to stand and defend the border, all they had to do was call on one of them. Instead they helped water down the country even more.

>or anyone in brussels
Each country sends representatives to the europarliament, who are elected. Why didn't you vote in the euro elections of your country?

>It has undermined it to the point that it's become a joke.
Most newcomer to the US work their ass off. Then again, it's just personal experience, so again.
>Now you have more people trying to mooch off of an increasingly small number of actually productive people
I would like to know the stats of that.
Lets define data in a way that can be objectively quantifiable:
-proportion of US citizens that received welfare yet never worked enough to pay their taxes for the whole of their life.
-proportions of immigrants (legal and illegal) that received welfare yet never worked enough to pay their taxes for the whole of their life.