On "Civil War II": >I like the fact that it's a storyline that comes out of the zeitgeist of the moment, so it's not the same story as [the original] "Civil War." It's a different story, but it's a story that shares some DNA with [the original] "Civil War" in that, that too was a story that grew out of the dialogue about what was happening in the country, and what was happening in the world in that period. I like that. I like the fact that it's Brian, and not Mark [Millar] -- not to say that Mark wouldn't do a fine job on a sequel to "Civil War," but it's a different writer with a different perspective and a different point of view, who's going to come at this from a different angle.
On the all-new "Marvel NOW!": >Every time you do a big event story, one of the things that's become very clear is that how they're regarded after the fact and what they're really remembered for are the things that come out of them. The way they make an impact and leave a crater on the Marvel Universe going forward. So it's become almost a necessity -- if you're going to do a big story, it's got to change things up.
On "DC Rebirth": >I did read it, and I will say that I thought it was -- and I mean this in a good way -- the most "DC" comic that I'd read in a long while. I'm kind of conflicted in terms of the central twist that is revealed there, because philosophically as a fan, I kind of feel like that work is a complete work, and I've liked the fact that people have stayed away from it, except in really recent memory, and let it be its own thing. On the flipside of that, as the guy that does all this publishing for Marvel, I know that if that book was in our back catalogue, there would definitely have been interaction by this point, and it probably would have happened much sooner.
>All of the older-time fans sort of lament, "Oh, we don't get long runs anymore." And that's not, rigidly speaking, true. There are a bunch of titles and a bunch of creators who have done long runs on titles. Certainly Brian Bendis on anything, and more recently, guys like Jonathan Hickman -- the page count on all the Avengers work leading up to "Secret Wars," and if you go back even further and count "Fantastic Four" and "Secret Warriors," all the stuff that contributed to "Secret Wars" -- that's a big, long run, but that tends to be more the exception than the rule, because the burn rate on every title that we put out now is much greater, because there are so many more options than there had been in the past. There's more of a need both to hit the ground running and to really make every release count -- you don't get to have a downtime issue anymore, because it's not 30 cents and it's not one of 18 comic books -- you have to be out there singing your heart out every issue. And, that means creative teams roll through the whole of their run, every basic idea they had to do, in a shorter amount of time. And it means the marketplace is more unforgiving. If people don't like the song you're singing, they go away faster, and then you go away.
Hm, I sort of see where they're coming from, but at the same time I'm not sure I approve of this level of pushing their creative teams every issue. I feel like when an artist and writer get to relax more, they can come up with some more creative and off-beat stuff. This model seems like it would homogenize books to all copy the best sellers, sort of like what happened with the Video Game Industry.
Blake Thomas
>It's also -- and there's no denying the evidence, it is irrefutable -- far easier for even established readers, but certainly newer readers, to feel comfortable coming in at a #1. It just is. I understand that older readers would just say, "In my day, we started with issue #29 and we liked it." That was the way it was for me, too. My first comic was "Superman" #268. I didn't have 267 of them, and it didn't trouble me. But that was then and this is now, and I have to react to the world we're in today, and the experiences of readers today. Virtually universally -- the percentage rate is phenomenal, high 90 percent -- people will tell you, it's just easier to go, "That's #1, that's where I start." Having #1s for even the key titles, it's sort of critical to the publishing, and to giving people the feeling that, here's a place they can jump on board and get into a story with one of the characters they're seeing in the cineplex. There's some place they can instantly go when they make the trek to the comic shop, or they open up whichever app they're using to buy digital comics. "Where do I start?" Particularly for an older reader who has never read comics. Just the wall of new releases in a comic shop can be daunting to know where to begin. There's so much, there's so many. People learn the lay of the land and they get it fairly quickly, but to start out, it's very difficult. Way more difficult than starting on a TV show. >And these days, you don't start on TV shows the way you used to. If you hear that, "Hey, this 'Better Call Saul' show is pretty cool," you typically don't just watch the next episode that's on. You go to Netflix and start at the beginning ... You don't start this week.
Well I can't blame Marvel for following market information, I just wish the market information was different.
Blake Richardson
>Right, it's pretty wild that on day where DC integrated "Watchmen" into the DC Universe, people were talking so much about Marvel -- thought the "Rebirth" leak several days prior must have had a lot to do with it.
>Brevoort: That was a total fluke. We did not plan that. I feel some sympathy for them -- it's two bad bounces. Bad bounce No. 1, their story leaked a couple of days earlier, so people had those conversations beforehand. The second part was, people just responded to this "Captain America" twist, even to a greater degree than we had anticipated. We knew it would be big, we knew it would get readers' eyebrows arching; we did not anticipate this kind of a response. I feel sorry for them at least on that level. I'm sure the book sold well, and it seems like it's getting a good response. It's not like it hurt them particularly, it just means the conversation moved away from them for a day. I would do it again in a heartbeat. [Laughs] But it's not like it was any Machiavellian planning on our part, it was just the way the chips happened to fall.
DC just can't catch a break. Perhaps it will all work out in the end, more people interested in comics due to the big news means more people in stores to pick up Rebirth.
Levi Long
>as the guy that does all this publishing for Marvel, I know that if that book was in our back catalogue, there would definitely have been interaction by this point, and it probably would have happened much sooner Oh god, we're going to get a Miracleman vs. Marvel comic at some point, aren't we?
Leo Gutierrez
>Having #1s for even the key titles, it's sort of critical to the publishing, and to giving people the feeling that, here's a place they can jump on board and get into a story with one of the characters they're seeing in the cineplex. That's nice bullshit to justify Marvel pumping out shitloads of first issues to help their dwindling sales. They're mostly bought by addicted nerds out of habit, anyway.
They should just do seasons without any of this sensational reboot first issue bullshit if they want to provide easier entry points for casual readers and preserve some narrative integrity at the same time.
Hunter Collins
Why are Capt and Spidey not on Iron Man's side? This shit makes no sense. Unless they're gonna write it up as "well we couldn't trust your judgement last time we can't trust it now" or something I can't seem them agreeing with Marvel on this issue
Joshua Cruz
>Brevoort not shitting on Rebirth
truly Johns is a miracle worker
Julian Moore
I don't really follow the writers/editors/reviewers. Who's Tom brevoort?
Samuel White
People would start the first episode of Season 4 on "Breaking Bad", they'd want to see Season 1 Episode 1. People nowadays want to start at what they consider the beginning. You can't blame Marvel for following the Market. If we hit a point where #1s stop being important, Brevoort seems ready to go back to regular numbering (hence the Silver Surfer #6 or #200 issue). They're a business, and at the end of the day they'll do what their information tells them the majority of potential customers want in order to entice them.
Their best writer is probably Nick Spencer, and he's all they've got now
Jayden Ortiz
Tom Brevoort is an Executive Editor at Marvel. He's been working there since 1989. I know Nick Spencer mentioned he went through him to clear the Hydra Captain America story, as he's overseen that character for several decades.
Aiden Rodriguez
But people don't jump on at #1s, sales go right back to pre-relaunch numbers almost immediately
James Lee
Marvel is fine. They've lost about as much talent as DC did during the New 52. People just like to pitch fits about it for company wars, but the fact is both companies work on building up new talent as older talent leaves/retires/ect.
Hastings and Ewing in particular are two writers on Marvel's side that have my attention more so than Spencer.
Christopher Bennett
>Their best writer is probably Nick Spencer Nah, their best writer is Ewing. Duggan is also pretty good. They really do need to bring in some new talent though.
There's also Ellis but he's just a mercenary. Comes in, does a 6 issue mini on a c-list character, then comes back a year later or so when he needs some fast cash.
Dylan Smith
But they don't label their trades accordingly, so you get a ton of vol 1s without any indication of where to start. They are claiming accessibility with floppies but not following it through the whole line. It's like if every Breaking Bad season was labeled season 1.
Jose Flores
They still have the second-best cape writer. Now they just need to put him in a big book
Jace Scott
They've still got Ewing.
He's pretty great and has massive love/respect/knowledge of the Marvel universe.
If a book is pushed hard, or has a big name on it, or gets a lot of buzz, then it often will settle into somewhat higher numbers. But all that matters to them is that massive #1 bump.
Charles Gomez
Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that Hastings seems to be becoming a Marvel house writer. What with Dr McNinja ending and both Gwenpool and Vote Loki coming out hot on the heels of Dr. McNinja's final chapter, I think its a pretty safe bet that he'll become Marvel's go-to writer for comedy-oriented fringe titles.
Elijah Bell
I can think of four books off the top of my head that have had downtime/filler issues in the last month or two, so this is complete bullshit
Xavier Murphy
Yeah, but how many of them had Brevoort as the editor (barring Bendis books because Bendis does whatever he wants)? If they're not part of his editorial group, then they could get away with shit like that.
Noah Reed
>If a book is pushed hard, or has a big name on it, or gets a lot of buzz, then it often will settle into somewhat higher numbers.
The problem with this theory is that you have a small number of creators or buzz that can do this. It mostly does nothing to the vast majority of the line. I only see a bump for Deadpool (comparatively early in its new run though) and Iron Man:
Basically every other title just continues dropping like it was before after the #1 boost. It doesn't seem truly beneficial for the line outside of the big #1 numbers (which probably do enough to justify it if we're being honest).
Samuel Scott
This is such a load of bullshit, holy fuck. They're acting like they actually did any research on this, when they clearly didn't.
Yes, it's true that #1s offer a nice place for people to start reading.
But #1s after no more than 12 issues is just ridiculous. No one is better off for that -- not the brand new readers (who will wonder if they should even bother with the old shit and get frustrated when there are so many stops and starts), not the older continuing readers (who are having their runs constantly interrupted and started from scratch), not the creative teams (who might not have the opportunity to stretch their legs; and who essentially get told that their run isn't very important by the end of things), and usually not Marvel in the long run (who still don't get any new readers and, instead, just get pissed-off old readers).
Plus, saturating the market with #1s just makes it THAT much more difficult to get into things. Because what are you even supposed to read? There are like 5-10 different new things during any given month of relaunches, combined with older continuing series and...it's just confusing as hell, especially when all you want to do is spend 10 bucks on 2 issues on something that *might* be good, but usually isn't worth the money...
It all just smells of bullshit. Their justification of "i-it's for the movie fans, i swear!!!" is meant to appease retailers, who will continue to overorder #1s under the assumption that people will come back to them and will continue to allow themselves to be fucked in the ass with incentivized variants.
Carson Powell
Diminishing returns.
At some point, a consistent book that draws a consistent number will be better off than a large but increasingly smaller bump with an even harsher decline.
Josiah Cruz
>CW2 won't fail >Cap will have great sales >#1s will still be bought
I want the events, anger, and relaunches to end, Sup Forums
John Rogers
we're already at that point
Austin Russell
>Miracleman vs. Marvel yup. soon.
>Star Wars vs Marvel. give it a few years.
>Disney characters vs. Marvel in time, yes.
Adam Ortiz
>Ewing >Spencer >Butters >Coates >Duggan Marvel may not have the best writers on all their books, but Spencer is far from the only good writer Marvel has.
Robert Wright
>On "DC Rebirth": >>I did read it, and I will say that I thought it was -- and I mean this in a good way -- the most "DC" comic that I'd read in a long while. I'm kind of conflicted in terms of the central twist that is revealed there, because philosophically as a fan, I kind of feel like that work is a complete work, and I've liked the fact that people have stayed away from it, except in really recent memory, and let it be its own thing. On the flipside of that, as the guy that does all this publishing for Marvel, I know that if that book was in our back catalogue, there would definitely have been interaction by this point, and it probably would have happened much sooner.
This the most down to Earth, common sense review I read from Rebirth. Extra points for the sincerity.
William Fisher
Who does each company have that Sup Forums generally approves of anyway? Marvel: >Ewing >Spencer >Hastings >Ellis (when he writes) >arguably Robinson DC: >King >Seeley >Orlando >Williams >Morrison >Johns (although he's not on anything rn) >Priest They're honestly more even than people like to claim, and I say that as a big DCfag.
Matthew Miller
Oh, and Duggan. Coates isn't good yet, though with time he may adapt better. And Butters is just ok, people overrate her CM run because KSD was SO bad.
Adrian Perez
What a load of horse shit. It's EASIER to get into comics now because there are sources like wikipedia, Comicvine, a DC wiki, a Marvel wiki, message boards, every fucking thing you could ever want to give you context into what you're getting. There are recap pages at the beginning of books that tell you what the story up to that point is. Characters are introduced with a caption that tells you their name, their power and a personality blurb.
If people can't get into comics with all of that to help them then they're morons who likely can't read in the first place or else are just willfully obtuse and why would you want to cater to them in the first place. I'd argue that the constant relaunches make things more confusing though. Somebody asks "where do I start" and you reply "Captain America #1". Well do you mean this year's Captain America #1? The one from last year? The Steve Rogers or Sam Wilson book? If the new #1 is continuing the same stories from the previous run why can't it just be Captain America #13 then, isn't that less confusing? Also, #1's now sell basically based on hype and Loot Crate artifically pumping up sales numbers: it's basically fuzzy math at best because by issue 2 or 3 you're selling maybe 1/3 or 1/4 of what #1 was because you don't have Loot Crate and variant covers to artifically inflate sales and as ANAD shows people are seemingly undergoing relaunch fatigue because everything is selling worse than what it had been originally and Marvel's attempts at making Iron Man their main character have utterly failed; 40k might be good for an Iron Man book but for someone you're pushing as your new flagship character that's atrocious.
Also STOP COMPARING COMICS TO TV SHOWS YOU FAT ASSHOLE. He's been using that same fucking analogy for TEN FUCKING YEARS (because Marvel has been doing constant relaunches for 10 years) and always, always, always defends it by going "b-b-but it's a season just like TV shows". Fuck you.
Christian Fisher
Add Wilson and Duggan to Marvel.
Add Rucka and Giffen to DC.
Lincoln Parker
>Brevoort is being rational and not taking shots at DC
Foget Cap being Hydra, this is the biggest twist all year!
Jose Morgan
Maybe they can try not charging so much for comic books instead?
Logan Cook
>3 legitimate authors >none if their shit sells the top ten >implying Spencer's Cap run isn't losing sales by the month
Christian Martinez
>Tom Brevoort was a Hydra plant all along
Julian Rodriguez
>>implying Spencer's Cap run isn't losing sales by the month
Given that there's only been one issue so far...
Jack Flores
More people were talking about Captain America but that ignores that DC: Rebirth was still the top seller for the weak (so the leak didn't really do anything) and that the "talk" regarding Captain America is almost universally negative and does nothing but piss people off and while Marvel might think controversy creates cash because long time readers will buy whatever, normies who only watch the movies will hate it and decide not to pick up another comic book again.
Ayden Cox
He's talking about SamCap, casual
Michael Watson
Ewing isn't bad, but he needs to stop pushing his shit pet characters (America Chavez especially) and start working with good artists (I can't read his shit because of the artists he works with)
Logan Lewis
But that's actually pretty good...
Ryan Gonzalez
So this really is going to be a "relaunch fucking everything from #1" deal? Christ.
Hudson Anderson
we're talking about sales not quality
Kayden Barnes
DC has Abnett now.
Also, where the fuck is Chris Yost nowadays? Motherfucker is my favorite writer who gets no love
Levi Evans
They've been doing it since like 2012 so I dunno why people are still surprised
The actual question is if they're gonna relaunch everything like they did ANAD and how often
Isaac Cooper
>and start working with good artists Dude, fucking what? Rocafort is the series artist for Ultimates. CoC's was Medina. Loki: AoA had Garbett.
The only truly shit artists he's had were the ones on his first volume of Mighty Avengers since that had Land and Larocca's horrible shit dragging things done, but even then, it had Schiti on a handful of the issues, and Schiti is one of the best artists at Marvel.
I get not liking Sandoval, but even then, Sandoval isn't a bad artist, his style is just very divisive. I personally love Sandoval's art.
Alexander Harris
why is everything so gay oh my god
Parker Ward
>Chris Hastings is the one writing Gwenpoole
For some reason I didn't know this. The guy went from being pretty shit to actually being great. Props to him
Jaxson Adams
>Brevoort being the mouse's puppet again
Does anyone here even take him seriously anymore?
Owen Butler
Does anyone on Sup Forums look forward these events? I gave up on comic events after the first Civil War.
Justin Price
Than wouldnt they just make them into constant maxi series than rebooting?
And if i'm a reader not sure to still buy it, a series end, its the best moment to stop the series. Or to renew the subscription.
So isnt it risky to start anew losing older readers to get new ones. Wouldnt some 25th numbers be a better advertising?
Ethan Thompson
Bitch, he's Perlmutter's bitch.
Daniel White
Depends on the event. I was pretty hype for Secret Wars because I was following Hickman's books, and I was pretty hype for AXIS because I was following Remender's books.
But stuff like Civil War II or Original Sin where it's just an event for the sake of having an event? Fuck no, couldn't care less. Haven't cared about an event for the event's sake since Onslaught Saga.
David Young
>I feel some sympathy for them
Bullshit
Carter Scott
I think more 1# people try, but mostly shops order so much. See DC rebirth. Every shop thinks some could sell well.
Ethan Murphy
Captain America is currently under Spencer's stewardship, which means he acts fucking retarded in order to make SamCap look good.
Spider-man's biggest thing is his guilt complex. He feels responsible for every bad thing that happens to him. So when he gets told "Hey, here's this power that can prevent a lot of bad things from happening, do you want to be responsible for it?" of course he's going to go with that.
Just like in the original CW though, I imagine he'll switch sides.
Evan King
>zeitgeist It's amazing how a single word automatically let's you know the speaker is talking out of their ass.
