Sonic Comics

WTF is this? Can someone catch me up on what happened to the comic book universe? I stopped reading around the time the beat Robotnik and broke him. It was a really good arc with a lot of dark and relocatable moments. So what the hell happened?

It became even kiddier.

but we already had that. its the called the start of the series. The comics were so great because they aged with the reader. Plus it was pretty damn epic. So now they shit all over it?

Former "writer" Ken Penders threw a hissy-fit over Archie using "his" characters, copyrighted them, and sued Archie. Due to his work-for-hire contract being somehow lost, and Archie's legal team shitting the bed, Sega forced them to settle. Now Penders plans (read: pie-in-the-sky dreams) on doing his own comic with those characters, and Archie was forced to reboot the Sonic comic to get rid of them (while they still had several plans for them).

They fixed it

Yes.

They don't care about older readers, they only value younger ones. You can argue that it sucks. You can argue that that's the way it should be. Either way, that's how Sega and Archie feel about it. It's a franchise-wide problem, not strictly a comic-centric one.

This. Apparently his original contract was destroyed in a flood, and a copy wasn't admissible in court.

As a result, Penders has all the characters he created, though all of their backstories are not invalid, as Sega would be more than happy to sue his pants off if he dared market his comic as taking place in the Mobian universe.

but hold the phone, most of the characters came from SatAM not the comics. How could he could have any right to them? so is the new shit worth reading? i know comics always do this crap but come on.

The problem is that the older "kiddie" issues are still easily appreciated as an adult. The gags and puns are fucking top-tier. What it has become now is kind of hard to appreciate as an adult, especially since the reboot. There's just a lot of cringeworthy inside jokes and game references. Mega Man was a million times better at pulling the whole "all-ages comic with adult undertones" thing.

I feel like I've been waiting for years for them to finish this fucking awful Sonic Unleashed adaptation.

I mean, yes, the core cast were. Pretty much every supporting character was a Penderling.
The book's better now than it was pre-reboot tho

so thats why they did the whole universe reset thing right? but the characters retained their memories? They did kinda set it up with that future side arc they did i guess.

That was a throw away non canon comic

>most of the characters came from SatAM not the comics. How could he could have any right to them?
You don't realize how many characters Penders made up. He populated a world with them. Some were great, some not so much.

>The book's better now than it was pre-reboot tho
Meh. I liked it best when it was Ian Flynn playing with Penders' leftover characters. Since the reboot, it seems a little too much like trying to force terrible video game adaptations into a sensible story, and it's been going on for years.

>but the characters retained their memories?
For the duration of the first arc, yes. Then they forgot.

Agreed. The Mike Gallagher stories were light-hearted but they could be genuinely funny. I don't find the more recent stuff funny at all. It's just kiddy.

The metaplot's dragging, yeah, but we've had some great arcs. Compare to shortly pre-reboot, which dragged out AND was mostly shit.

Explain exactly what you're talking about because the comics are still good.

It hurts loving Scourge's jailbreak but with no payoff from him. Scourge is never going to get his vengeance. I really was interested in what he had planned when it came to Mammoth Mogul, Moebius and Mobius.

yeah true he did add a lot. but i feel like Sega should have just told him to fuck off. And see thats part of my problem. the comic didn't just adapt they stories from the game, they made them make sense. They did Adventure in the same universe and explained the whole thing in a coherent way.
the hell?? why? thats the only reason i had any interest. it just invalidates the whole thing.

Terrible video game adaptations of terrible video games are terrible.

Only some of the characters (e.g. Sally, Uncle Chuck, Naugus) were from SatAM. Many of them (e.g. most of the echidnas, Sonic's parents, Mina Mongoose) were first written by Penders. Still others (e.g. Zonic the Zone Cop) were by other writers whom Archie doesn't want to pull a Penders on them, and so they had to go too.

Archie was able to keep characters from the games, from the AoStH and SatAM cartoons, and (assuming they were not derived from another writer's works or in violation of the current Sega mandate that game characters can't have relatives) current writer Ian Flynn's characters.

Fuck we lost Mina too?

Yep. And she's now in the clutches of the most hack writer ever.

well they had a more adult theme going on for many years during its run. now its totally different.
Thats right they never did anything with him. thats a real waste. in fact a lot of its a waste

this just all sounds like garbage. and a lot of it sounds like Sega should have put their foot down. Is it even worth reading now? I was really hoping the movie could derive itself from the comics too.

I'll bet he uses the characters for a furry porn, just to piss off Sega. Why is he a bad writer, by the way, I got into the comics late(when Geoffrey betrayed Sonic in the special zone)

Penders doesn't have Mina, Karl Bollers does.

>Gallagher
When will this meme end? Most of the good early stories were penned by Angelo DeCesare. Gallagher wrote a few good strips, but was far less consistent.

what the hell would he even do with them? nobody is gonna give a shit without Sonic. And they were only good because they existed in that universe. It sounds like he really shot himself in the balls

>but we've had some great arcs
The only one I remember enjoying was the Fighters arc. That did a wonderful job of blending pre-existing parts of Sonic's history together. All the character cameos were great. Besides that, they've ranged from forgettable to downright bad, in my opinion.
>Compare to shortly pre-reboot, which dragged out AND was mostly shit.
See, I disagree. Shortly pre-reboot only dragged because of the legal issues, but I think what Flynn was doing, trying to clean up the mess of Penders' characters was actually really compelling. Ixis Naugus in charge of Mobotropolis, and Rotor and Uncle Chuck on his council was pretty neat.

>meme

Fuck off. DeCesare did some good stories, too. But I mostly enjoyed the Gallagher ones. They were silly as fuck. That's what made them great.

>When will this meme end?
When will THIS meme end?

If you're the kind of person who places canon and character history before storytelling, it's not worth your time.

If you like adventure books for general audiences, it's pretty good. There's been a few stumbling points, but there have been more solid, fun stories than weak ones.

so howd the whole Robotnik being mentally broken arc play out? I stopped reading around the time of the new villain.

see i appreciate storytelling. but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to see the stuff ive been reading for years get the shaft. i'll probably pick it up with i have time and money, but it just sucks to lose a lot of what i considered to be an excellent universe. is it the longest running licensed comic yet?

Never.

I'm not discrediting him. Issue 40 is one of my favorites.

I'm saying most people don't even notice that they're two separate writers, or that Gallagher contributed fewer stories.

Sega probably would have crushed Penders' claim in court, but they were too busy merging with Atlus at the time.

>I'll bet he uses the characters for a furry porn, just to piss off Sega.

Using them at all would piss off Sega, but Penders thinks he's unstoppable because he "won" against a big comics company. The fucker's got an ego the size of the sun.

>Why is he a bad writer, by the way, I got into the comics late

Among other crap stories, he's also the same idiot who thought that "Sonic Live" (a self-insert story starring his own son and niece, that also downplays the importance of the actual game creators in favor of a bunch of American OCs) was a good idea, prides himself on never ever acknowledging anyone else's work with the Sonic franchise (including the actual fucking games), and credits himself with the franchise's popularity.

Whoops. My mistake. Then at least Penders doesn't have that.

He broke out once by gibbering the voice-code to open his cell, then eventually ended up reasoning himself out of madness. He discovered that the reason he always loses to Sonic is that the blue hedgehog is some kind of embodiment of Chaos itself, and sought to take that away by rewriting reality (and re-enacting the plots of the first 2 games in a more game-like reality). Sonic ended up fixing that, but he later pulled off the same trick later with help from Dr. Wily (yes, Sonic crossed over with Mega Man). When Sonic and Mega Man were about to fix it, Eggman threw a hissy-fit that he was going to lose (saying that if he couldn't have the universe his way, nobody would get to have it at all) and rammed Sonic while he was trying to fix the universe. This resulted in the universe being put back together wrong (conveniently getting rid of all the characters and concepts that Archie could no longer legally use), as well as breaking apart Sonic's world (which is now what it has to be called rather than "Mobius" or "Earth").

sigh. well at least its epic. i hope penders gets fucked over though. thats such a dick move.

He thrashed around a bit before reconciling that his past/backstory/identity doesn't really matter (relevant) and retaking control. The arc itself was too long for its own good and had some mediocre issues.

Immediately following this was a string of multiple VERY strong two-parters, and then a new story arc started where Geoffrey St Skunkguy was a traitor working for Naugus, who claimed kingship of the city. Eggman launched the Death Egg, there was a shitty four part arc recapping Sonic 1 & 2 to tie in to the 20th anniversary, and Sally became a robot...and then the book immediately went to shit because of legal kerfuffles.

Honestly, if you want to get back on, you should read up to 225, skip to 230, and then read the Sonic/Mega Man crossover. Trust me, you won't be missing anything.

>But I mostly enjoyed the Gallagher ones. They were silly as fuck. That's what made them great.
The best thing about Gallagher is that towards the end of his era, he really started to improve writing action and drama as well. I often forget that he was behind Mecha Madness, which to date is still my favorite arc. It was the first time that the book felt like something was actually at stake, and there were some great jokes peppered throughout. Art by Spaz just seals the deal.

ok thanks. when i have money ill get into it again. ill buy the comics just to complete the collection tho. and they never did anything with robotniks niece did they? perhaps they can build up the new universe

If said niece was by Penders, she's off limits.

probably. damn asshole

If you're talking about Hope Kintobor (Snively's niece), she was by Bollers and is therefore off-limits anyway.

Wait, I looked it up. She's Snively's half-brother and Robotnik's niece. Never mind about the parentheses.

I read the early books as a kid, but it was mostly for the game reference. Once Mecha Madness happened it got good.

The thing is, the switch from a comedy comic to an adventure comic was because of Penders. For as much as we hate him, he was absolutely spot on with that idea.

ya know since they are trying to do a live action movie the comics would have been great to adapt. but with all this legal crap they probably cant. i dont want to see a different story with ANOTHER sonic universe. does sonic even have one singular universe with all his games??

i totally respect what he did. but then turning and ruining the stuff he created sickens me, thats not why you write. thats not why you create art. its obvious he doesnt care about the fans

>Why is he a bad writer
He fits into all the hack writer pitfalls.

*Characters are defined by plot utility rather than personality and agency.
*Characters do not have markedly different voice or personalities, just funny accents to cover their lack of personality.
*All stories are in service to cliffhangers, "revelations" and mysteries. Because of this, very little meaningful action occurs.
*Telling instead of showing. Especially talking about characters being important instead of letting their actions define their importance.
*Recycling stick plots.
*Reliance on poor, overused contrivances like the hero's destiny, bloodline feuds, political jargon, technobabble, alternate universes, mistaken identities, amnesia, etc.
*Horrible pacing.
*Creator's pet characters.
*Prioritizing "lore" over entertaining stories.
*CONSTANT RETCONS.
*Ignoring other writers, which leads to gaping plotholes.
*Reluctance to experiment or use unfamiliar characters.

He's a dick to boot.

Most of the games (with the exception of Spinball, Mean Bean Machine, and Chronicles) share the same universe. Spinball is in the SatAM universe, Mean Bean Machine is in the AoStH universe, and Chronicles is now completely non-canon because Penders is a litigious asshole.

Maria was a game character, though. I think she's still fair play.

I'll never get why people praise the Spaz parts of Mecha Madness but ignore the Manak part of the story. And the Uncle Chuck saga gets ignored despite having the same number of stories and an even stronger finale.

you can basically just sum it up with him being a total dick. he did do some stuff that was cool but fuck him
but waht about sonic 06? generations? colors? adventures?
well actually differnt girl but easy mistake

06 retconned itself, but is still canon as far as Generations is concerned. Colors and the Adventure games exist in the same universe.

makes me wonder how this movie is gonna work

It was actually in response to SatAM. Ken's early stories were just as goofy as the rest, but when season 2 started up ALL of the comic's writers started to establish story continuity, draft up character-focus stories, and make their own arcs. It seems like more of an editorial decision.

Given the track record of game-to-movie adaptations, the Sonic movie is probably not going to work at all.

i also enjoy how they managed to work in a lot of previous comedy arcs

>he did do some stuff that was cool
He did?
All I can think of is Voodoo Knuckles, but he really dropped the ball on that anyway.

well thats why it should base itself on the comics. if they can.

>ignore the Manak part of the story
Just because I didn't mention it doesn't mean I ignored it. It's just not really the main event, but it is an important part of the narrative.

The Uncle Chuck saga? What was that, exactly? It's been decades since I've browsed the older parts of my collection.

i dont rmember the stuff off the top of my head but i remember liking it

Well, if they're going to base it off of the comics, they'll have to do it based off of the new comics (which pretty much just pasted most of the games into its canon; the only real difference is that Colors and Generations happened before Unleashed, because the interrupted Super Genesis Wave that warped reality also broke apart Sonic's world and unleashed Dark Gaia). So we're right back at square one.

yeah. tho its possible they could get away with at least adapting the issue 50 arc.

Well when you say "the Spaz art made it", it's implying those two issues are the stronger ones and passes over just how strong (and much more expressive) Manak's pencils were.

On the other end, DeCesare whipped up a three part Uncle Chuck arc that's a lot like Mecha Madness in a way, but it was split across a number of issues. Started in 30 with "The Return of Uncle Chuck", ends with 37's "The Day Robotropolis Fell". It's a strong trilogy of stories that never gets any recognition.

You mean "Endgame"? Hell no they couldn't get away with doing that! As far as stories go, that's Penders' baby.

>Adaptation of a shitty, plothole filled arc that itself is a pseudo-adaptation of the shitty SatAM finale.

I'd rather they didn't.

My favorite issue is the one where Sonic is macking with several different ladies at once.

true but does he own the rights to the story itself? could he fight sony and sega in court over the arc?
theyd have to take liberties but its probably the strongest starting point they could do with a movie that sets up a film universe

Please don't post the daterape issue.

I really enjoy Bunnie and Antoine relantionship since they bring the best of each other. I really wanted to see Bunnie against Conquering storm, shame it won't happen anytime soon.

>The strongest starting point is a self-serious "finale" that entirely hinges on previous investment.
???

Why not just start with the basics?

bow chicka bowwow

Due to the settlement, he owns all characters and concepts he created for the comic. So, yeah, if it's recognizably "Endgame", then he pretty much does own the story.

>it's implying those two issues are the stronger ones
Um, they are. It has little to do with the art, though, they would have been stronger even if Manak had pencilled all of them, but quite honestly, two issues that involve Sonic getting kidnapped, roboticized, devastating Knothole, kicking the shit out of Bunnie, Knuckles willingly being roboticized to fight back, then Robotropolis getting the fuck nuked out of it is going to be stronger than just about anything.

Don't get me wrong, I love issue 40, it's the perfect end note for the arc, but there's not much to it. It's dessert, while the previous two issues are the main course.

Conquering Storm is still around, so it's just as likely as it ever was.

But it was so neat

well if they want this pg-13 rating and all and they want to set up a universe for the films they could adapt it well if its done right. it wouldnt be of course but i can dream. think about it, u set up the world and just how dangerous robotnik is, who the characters are ect.
true but i dont know how well it would hold up or if he would be willing to fight over it agains tthe two companies. especially since the main characters arent his

I know she is around, but Flynn hates Bunnie and Antoine. I still can´t believe he wanted to kill Antoine off and having Bunnie betraying the Freddom fighters for revenge

How did this make you feel?

>Better now than it was pre-reboot

Just because we lost some lame characters in the reboot doesn't make it better. The re-boot, all around, fucking sucks. In like 30 issues nothing has happened, and losing those unimaginative Penders characters gave way to even gayer ones

>true but i dont know how well it would hold up or if he would be willing to fight over it agains tthe two companies. especially since the main characters arent his

Considering it's Penders we're talking about, he'd be willing to fight Sega and Sony over it for even the dumbest possible reason. He thinks he's fucking invincible in court.

god i hate that art style. it ruined the drama for me. and it was insulting how amazing the art was for the future arc that was in the back of the issues

Nigga shows up like twice
He's not even bad.

yeah but does he have the cash? if he was smart, and he isnt, he would want to be working with them, not being a dick over crap that should never have been his in the first place.

I don't specifically mean Mutsky, but when he appeared is when I knew this reboot would be painful for me

I mean, if you're talking about your hype I guess you could say that. The writing's a slight step up from Super Sonic vs Hyper Knuckles, which was...okay.

It's more spectacle than anything, really.

How?
Most of the new characters we got have been great, especially Eggman's goons.

This is autism.

He married into money. It's how he's staying afloat despite working on fucking nothing but his so-called "magnum opus" The Lara-Su Chronicles (which was announced years ago and still only has two or three pages done, all of which are total crap).

i vaguely remember ss vs hk. howd they even set that up?

What the hell are you on about?
He doesn't hate either of them.

well he can go fist himself with a bottle of ketchup. i still want them to fight him. dumb bastard cant get work with a record like his

Characters aside, are you guys seriously happy with the Unleashed arc? Beyond being fucking terrible, it is way too drawn out.

why would they even do an arc on that game?

>dumb bastard cant get work with a record like his

He doesn't fucking care about that. He's completely deluded himself into thinking he's the best writer ever, and anyone who says otherwise is just a "hater".

I refuse to read it. I'll wait until it's over then I'll start buying all the new ones(and old ones on the app).

It's been really boring I'll admit that, but I didn't like Unleashed or its story to begin with.

But the new characters we've been getting have been really fun. At least in my opinion.

well we will see how ewell that works out for his "career"

Because it's an excuse to go globe-trotting (and thus building up this brave new post-retcon world).

Believe me, I want to see him crash and burn too. But at this point, absolutely nothing can snap him out of his idiocy.