>We need a regulatory body that serves as a watchdog for us because people are scared at the death and destruction that has followed our emergence. Also, the Winter Soldier is an extremely dangerous assassin that has literally altered history in favor of a Nazi organization and he should be stopped by any means necessary.
>BUT MUH BUCKY!
How were these guys the good guys again?
Luke Butler
why did you list Winter Soldier's role as if Bucky had a say in the matter? that's like the crux of the whole issue
Levi Young
yawn
Thomas Powell
Technically with the insanity plea you're not held responsible, but you're not allowed to just walk away scotch-free either like Cap wanted for him
Dominic Martinez
Also, Wanda committed or abetted numerous crimes in the last movie, but putting her under house arrest is JUST TOO MUCH.
But anyway nobody said Cap was right.
Isaiah Collins
>How were these guys the good guys again?
Because for a while, certain people have been hyping up the UN as evil because they want citizens to fear challenges to US hegemony and its unilateral actions.
But those other guys can/should be regulated by the UN. That's fine for them.
Justin Rogers
>Globalism >Not literally the end of human freedom
I forget I'm on the best goy board sometimes but even when I remember I'm still upset people like you think like this.
Jose Rivera
>scotch-free
Jaxon Kelly
I love how Wanda gets a pass for being a cute girl. Never mind the war crimes, the casualities and her assistance in Ultron's creation.
David Richardson
>random Nigerian official: "Theres been reports that the Avengers have landed in Lagos in search of the supercriminal Crossbones. Many of our people have fallen victim to these terrorists, although I do not welcome them flying unsanctioned into our country, the Avengers can aid us in capturing these outlaws. Captain America, we are prepared to launch a joint task force with the Avengers that can take on any threat. If you share the information you have to track Rumlow, we will coordinate with your team to capture him. If you believe there is a place he will be striking next, we can prep the location in advance with our own men undercover so as to reduce civilian casualties. If you have any idea where he is, we can put measures in place to evacuate endangered areas in advance. What do you say, Captain? " >Steve: MUH BUCKY MUH COST OF FREEDUMS"
he's a hypocrite 100% wrong fakkit
Levi Miller
Yea, he would go to a mental hospital for awhile which would be perfect for him. Sadly though they wanted to shoot him on sight at first then he got mind raped to try and escape. The movie really should have ended with him turning himself in for help.
James Garcia
Why Tony didn't bring the J-Soc when Cap refused to listen and started the airport fight? Why he didn't bring the army to Siberia? >inb4 he promised Falcon to go alone
Elijah Hall
What the fuck is freedom user? We're all slaves to something already.
Oliver Cooper
To be fair, the crime that started the big manhunt for him was one he actually didn't commit
Gavin Butler
If we're all slaves why does US hegemony bother you so much anyway?
Do you people ever think these things through?
Fuck off with this moral relativism, it even defeats your own arguments.
Leo Kelly
saving a nice husbando or waifu is always the right side, OP
Brandon Sullivan
To be fair she gets a pass partly for being cute and partly for the new creative team ignoring everything that Whedon wrote.
Even her powers are different this time.
Parker Rogers
because captain America is supposed to represent the old, good America.
In that America we didn't sell out our best friends to the globalists
Andrew Wilson
Having every world saving action approved by UN committee, taking more time, more death.
The government is literally just Hydra in this universe.
Lincoln Ross
Unless they're communists
Tyler Carter
Captain America is a hypocrite and a fascist, news at 11.
Angel Jones
If you want accountability and effective responses to global threats, and the UN is the FIRST thing that comes to mind, then you're a fucking idiot.
Elijah Hill
>dude i want my pal bucky to be free >lmao JK put him on ice
Oh well The Bucky/ Deathlok film should be great
Isaiah Allen
>implying communists are our friends They ARE the globalists
Andrew Sanders
>is supposed to represent the old, good America.
The one that tried to took over Panama? The one that went to war with Spain? The one that tried to fuck Cuba? The one that fucked up latin american and killed presidents? The one that fucked up the middle east to protect israel??
>In that America we didn't sell out our best friends to the globalists
Only to the jewish masters
I have the right to invade any country i want and kill my enemies there.
Steve was literally George Bush in the movie.
Joseph Cox
...
Lincoln Jenkins
He's not wrong.
Daniel Martin
>literally altered history
'How can Tony Stark be born if Bucky killed his parents?' was just a meme, lad.
Matthew Diaz
How can anyone think steve was right is beyond me.
Want to protect bucky? Made a public add asking bucky to stand down or go and surrend himself.
Luke Scott
>He's not wrong.
He's defending globalism by listing actions taken by globalist governments, he's a moron.
Anyone who thinks one world government = no war is a moron.
Ryder Collins
>The movie really should have ended with him turning himself in for help.
It did. Sort of. Freezing himself and having the Wakanda's work on his brain is getting help.
Turning himself into Ross though. Yeah that's a bad idea. Beyond the fact that Ross really wanted him dead for some reason, he's so incompetent anyone could just kill and replace a psychiatrist and then Hydra trigger him again.
Wakanda at least he's safe there.
And that was what Steve wanted all along. He didn't want Bucky to walk totally free he just wanted him to not be killed by a trigger happy Ross or be sent through a kangaroo court that had no intention of playing fair.
Remember Ross was disapointed Bucky wasn't killed and laughed at the idea of him getting any of fair due process. That's not the kind of people Bucky needs to be turned in to.
Aiden Cruz
Explain how oversight would have changed Crossbones blowing up a bunch of Nigerians and a few Wakandans.
Lucas Carter
Crossbones didn't do that, Wanda did.
Jack Peterson
Crossbones would have blown up someone. Wanda just shifted the target.
People would still be dead.
Gavin Ortiz
You're right. If she didn't interfere he would have just killed dozens of Nigerians instead.
Sebastian Stewart
I think the problem isn't so much the destruction caused, but the lack of oversight and authorization from the proper authorities. The Avengers didn't respect the sovereignty of nations, and engaged in hostile action whilst doing so.
Ian Walker
>We need a regulatory body that serves as a Translation: General Thunderbolt Ross runs The Avengers now. WHAT COULD GO WRONG? >Winter Soldier is an extremely dangerous assassin True >he should be stopped by any means necessary All that was actually necessary was talking to Cap. If the German special forces hadn't stormed the building, Cap could have talked him into coming in under Cap's custody, maybe even had an alibi to prove he wasn't anywhere near Vienna at the time that photo was taken. Summary execution without due process is not how good guys operate.
*That* is why Cap was the good guy. He was standing up for the "reasonable doubt" and "innocent until proven guilty" as opposed to Thunderbolt "Shoot first and don't bother asking questions" Ross.
William Turner
>If the German special forces hadn't stormed the building They wouldn't have done so if Cap was operating through proper channels though.
Zachary Green
>Scotch-free >Scotch
Joseph Sanchez
Yes would have. Proper channels was that Cap was not to get involved in any way because he'd disapprove of them shooting first and asking questions never.
He asked proper channels with Widow. She told him to say out of it.
Justin Morgan
Literally retarded. He would have blown up the whole shopping area. Which is definitely more than what Wanda moved it to.
Matthew Martin
FALSE. The Avengers were not dispatched to Romania to bring Bucky in. The Counter-Terrorism Task Force was dispatched to Bucky's house to kill him. Even Rhodey didn't show up until after the chase scene. Cap would have been sitting with Tony, Wanda, Nat, or Vision because Ross wouldn't have sent him out.
Bentley Smith
>he'd disapprove of them shooting first and asking questions never. To be fair, Bucky was an infamous terrorist, considered armed and extremely dangerous. They don't know what the fuck he's gonna pull if they try to apprehend him.
James Johnson
Cap didn't want him to be completely absolved of the crimes he committed and be completely free without getting any help.
He wanted his best friend who he just recently found out is even alive to be taken alive and given a fair trial and ideally get help to break the conditioning. The government gave their men orders to kill on sight and Black Panther was out for blood to avenge his father for the crime everyone thought Bucky committed, so if Cap didn't step in Bucky would have been killed by one of them.
Elijah Bell
The bystanders on the street were about 15-20 feet away from Cap and Rumlow, but there were a lot of them. While it would have meant blowing up a bunch of cheap fruit stands instead of damaging an expensive building, there's really no reason to assume that Wanda affected the death toll either way. She didn't actually even throw him into the building, she threw him up in the air beside it, the blast from the suicide vest threw him horizontally into the building.
Hell, from the dialogue in the film it seems like the only reason that even mattered was because WAKANDANS were in that building and apparently killing one of them is way worse than killing anyone else. Also it is kind of funny how no one seems to blame the outlaw mercenary who wore and triggered a suicide-bomber vest.
James Myers
Who is defending globalism? if anything is saying interventionism is wrong
Hunter Morgan
>As a government, we should be regulating your actions >Oh yeah, that time when we tried to nuke New York? That's totally on you 47 people got killed anyway! >Oh, and that time we got infiltrated by Hydra and almost got off the ground plan to mass-genocide everything we disliked? Ooops! But hopefully it won't happen again, fingers crossed!
Avengers don't need government to keep them in check, government/UN/Shield/etc need Avengers to keep THEM in check.
Entire point of superhero mythos is about regular people rising up to an occasion when governments (police, firemen, etc) don't do enough, not about superpowered police acting as government-sanctioned black-ops squad with a license to kill.
Jacob King
>They don't know what the fuck he's gonna pull if they try to apprehend him Which is exactly why Steve tried to beat them to it, because "I'm the least likely to die trying."
Carson Gonzalez
Did anyone else think the graphic depiction of Bucky raping Tony's mother was a bit excessive?
Cooper Reyes
>fly unsanctioned to foreign country >share none of your intel about dangerous criminals roaming about foreign government >engage said terrorists in immensely populated area >make no effort to involve the now-panicked and thrown-into-chaos local authorities >leave dozens of dead civilians in your wake >assume absolutely no responsibility afterwards
....people actually defend this asshole?
Christian Sanchez
>47 people got killed anyway! I'd just like to point out that even if a whole million people died in Sokovia that day, that still means the Avengers attempt to save everyone in the world was 99.99986% successful.
Alexander Lopez
Who cares about sovereign countries America knows what's best for you. As long as you believem you are right, no one's else freedom, independence and rights matter.
Jordan Gutierrez
Like America does?
Ethan Brown
Didn't you hear user? You don't have to follow international law if you wear a costume!
Jackson Roberts
>As long as you believem you are right, no one's else freedom, independence and rights matter. You mean like how Germany went in to exterminate Bucky? Because obviously his rights weren't being considered by anyone except Cap and maybe Falcon. Or maybe you mean how Iron Man just blew the shit out of a whole bunch of civilian aircraft that couldn't have possibly outrun him anyway. Because the owners of those aircraft weren't enjoying their right to not have a monomaniacal billionaire destroying their private property.
Angel Davis
>You mean like how Germany went in to exterminate Bucky?
You mean how the German Police tried to arrest a dangerous criminal terrorist that was illegal in their country? Shot to kill means that at least the target surrender he is going down, if Bucky lay in the ground and didnt attack anyone he would had survived. But him and Steve attacked POLICEMEN doing their Job.
Of course if a chinese hero attacks the police in New York the reaction of Murrikan and steve would had been really different.
>Or maybe you mean how Iron Man just blew the shit out of a whole bunch of civilian aircraft that couldn't have possibly outrun him anyway. Because the owners of those aircraft weren't enjoying their right to not have a monomaniacal billionaire destroying their private property.
Who is defending Iron Man? Also, you are comparing the property of a few with the independence of an entire nation. Autistic fuck.
Angel Lee
See, thing is, Cap is right because; What if it HAD a plot to unleash the Winter Soldiers? They would've gotten there just as they were being woken up, if Cap had complied and surrendered himself and Bucky to Stark, they would've been too late to stop it.
ON THE OTHER HAND, Tony is right because if cap HAD complied with Stark, they would've maybe figured out that Bucky was framed without all the fallout, but there was still the potential of those Soldiers being turned loose, though they would've all worked together to stop it.
Despite your general oversimplification to "muh Bucky" that was hardly the basis of the Cap argument, it was really just an aside.
Sometimes oversight adds too much overhead time before things can get done, but other times that same oversight can give you a more informed landscape to take action on. Do things now and be damned the consequences, or approach carefully and be damned for over-cautiousness?
Grayson Ward
Bullshit. Ross sent those guys to kill Bucky. They literally say this in the movie.
He even says afterward that if Cap hadn't interfered Bucky would be dead.
Asher Kelly
>The one that...
No, the one that fought for the Allies in WW2
Thomas Butler
>I have the right to invade any country i want and kill my enemies there. >You will invade any country we want and kill the enemies the committee tells you to.
Leo Lewis
>They literally say this in the movie. Yes, Shot to kill when Steve is talking to revange girl.
Bucky invaded a country illegally. A wanted criminal that was involved in countless homicides broke into their country and now probably blow up several politicians.
Shoot to kill if he resisted as expected. Steve Attacked the police. Instead of arresting Bucky himself and K.O. him before the police got there.
Connor Cruz
>the one that fought for the Allies in WW2
How was that a good thing? America should had never been involved in Europe. Only Japan was a real enemy.
Gavin Wood
USA's involvement saved millions of lives, that counts.
Gabriel Robinson
>MUH GUBMENT WILL SOLVE ALL MY PROBLEMS
Hudson Martinez
Literally Tony Stark.
Benjamin James
Japan had allies in Europe, fool.
The US was brought into a WORLD WAR not a simple pissing match with Japan.
Mason Miller
>USA's involvement saved millions of lives
Not really. The brits should had never been involved.
Angel Wright
>The US was brought into a WORLD WAR
After supporting the brits for almost 3 years. America should had been truly neutral toward the nazis.
Cooper Robinson
>Conquest of neighboring allied European states has nothing to do with GB
Are you baiting or some kind of autistic naziboo?
John Richardson
user. It's not a matter of being innocent or not. It's a matter of due process. Something that i bet you have no idea how it works.
James Harris
Don't they hate France anyway?
Zachary Martinez
Wanda is an immigrant so is an easy scapegoat, especially for the US media, as implied in the movie, it's a play on the racism/mutant angle from the comics.
People are scared of meta-humans and the ensuing chaotic nature of the world surrounding them.
Andrew Cooper
US as a sovereign nation can choose to engage in trade with whoever it wants.
Commerce is not an act of war.
Jacob Ortiz
>why does US hegemony bother you so much anyway?
Because they are hypocrites and manipulative bastards that deserve to be fucked for every single thing that they have done.
Adrian Jackson
Someone's mad
Dylan Morris
The moment where Howard said "Now, Bucky...that's not how Steve would do it...Steve would ease in then pump his freedom in, Steve's a total natural, you know."
That was a strange moment.
Kevin Price
Yeah, if she didn't do anything a lot of other nigerians would have died, along with Cap.
Tyler Lewis
Yes. I am.
You assholes go to other nations. You kill, you establish puppet governments and let the massacre begins. Then when you can't control those tyrannical bastards you train extremists and like the fucking morons you are, then THEY get out of your hands and kill YOUR civilians (the only good part of your involvement is when your people, your soldiers and civilians, die).
Fuck you. You deserved 9/11 and more.
Aiden Martinez
>If we're all slaves why does US hegemony bother you so much anyway?
I didn't say it did. Just saying that's why they don't like the UN. Just like other countries with less power like the UN because it gives them more influence in situations where more powerful nations would want to steamroll them.
People on top like to stay on top tend to resent limitations being placed on them by those who are not on top. And people who aren't on top like seeing restrictions on the top because it allows them some means of keeping them in check.
Michael Long
These nations are third world shitholes anyway who cares
Grayson Stewart
1 American = 10 French 1 French = 100 Asians 1 Asian = 1000 Africans
According to my calculations... 1 Wakandan = 500 Nigerians
Jack Morales
Holy fuck. You realize that a) Japan attacked preemptively of a declaration of war, it was on regardless of what the USA was going to do about it. b) Germany declared war on the US as they were an ally of Japan.
Not even an American but your blatant hateboner for the US is pathetic and blatantly ignoring the basic reasons why America joined the War.
Joseph Rivera
The mexican raping your daughters and the mudslim using your flag as a cum rag.
Michael Morgan
>UN >Influence
Dohohoho
Lucas King
Tbh Black Widow got similar special treatment.
Lucas Martinez
I thought those were the stars...
Jeremiah Rivera
So nobody of importance, got it thanks
Cooper Garcia
he means that the Hydra benefited from having the Winter Soldier to help shape history, you dimwit
Hunter Walker
So a Wakandan is half an Asian, half a percent of a French and .0005% American?
I thought that for every 1 American you had it was worth about a trillion Nigerians.
Oliver Garcia
The bottom is how it works. A bunch of Korean citizens can't take it upon themselves to come onto US soil, apprehend/kill bad guys, cause several deaths and hundreds of thousands/millions in collateral damage,and then just fly back to their base in Korea without impunity.
Then turn around and say, "But if we hadn't done that, a Chinese nuke would have gone off and taken out a US city!"
Liam Green
Yes, think of it like the value of Zimbabwean currency.
Leo Smith
>war crimes >casualities >assistance in Ultron's creation
...Banner?
Julian Foster
Exactly what I was doing.
Angel Wilson
>Explain how oversight would have changed Crossbones blowing up a bunch of Nigerians and a few Wakandans.
It was have resulted in someone getting fired and some kind of restitution instead of just having Wanda feel bad for a bit before she runs off to some other country to engage in more acts of war.
Don't act like you wouldn't be pissed if Hulk bust through your house and killed your friends/family in pursuit of Abomination, but nobody's responsible for it.
Jordan Anderson
> Isn't Odin on Earth in Thor: Ragnarok? > That could easily end up with Thor saying "Fuck Midgard!"
Evan Gutierrez
>but nobody's responsible for it. Yes, Ross is. That's why the Avengers being under his command is absolutely retarded.
Ayden Barnes
>but nobody's responsible for it. Except the Abomination.
Ian Baker
Of course, but I'd be blaming Abomination long before the Hulk
The Avengers aren't imposing their will on anyone, they're just trying to stop super villains. And I trust them to do that a lot more than UN pencil pushers.
Samuel Thompson
Cap isn't right, Tony is just more wrong
Joshua Morgan
>It was have resulted in someone getting fired and some kind of restitution
So shifting the blame just like Cap said, meanwhile hamstringing the only people who have the potential to stop things like this from happening.
You can't tell me seeing some worthless suit get fired would ease your pain.